New here and would appreciate some advice re my test results

[Guest guest]

Hi folks

I am new here and not very used to forums and its ways of working so

please bear with me and apologies if I get it wrong. I have a lot of work to do

in exploring this site as there is so much info on it.

I would particularly appreciate any comments regarding my latest thyroid

function tests. I have a TSH of 5.82, Free T3 of 4.1 and Free T4 of 11.7. My

endocrinologists thinks this is fine and as such I have no thyroid problem and

it therefore cannot be causing my symptoms.

I would really, really appreciate a little bit of help advice regarding these

test results, my thyroid problems which have been ongoing since I was first

diagnosed with an over-active thyroid at the age of 11, I am now in my late 50's

and still struggling with a problem that seems to have no solution.

I won't write the full story here as it would turn into a book, probably full of

the sorts of issues that most thyroid patients will be depressingly familiar

with but a short resumme will give you an idea.

Very ill as a child, consistently told there was nothing wrong with me until

finally diagnosed with an over active thyroid at age 11 by which time I was very

ill. Responded very well to medication and was discharged from medical care at

age 15.

Gradually deteriorated and did the rounds of doctors who told me there was

nothing wrong with me until in my mid twenties they decided that I did have an

over active thyroid and I had a sub-total thyroidectomy, there was no follow up.

I seemed to get worse after the operation and spent years back and forth to

different doctors and at age 39 was put on HRT (I would give anything to reverse

this) At age 41 I got put on thyroxine and since that time I have tried all

sorts of different combinations but nothing seems to work - at one stage I was

on 300 of thyroxine. I have also tried Nature Thyroid and a short period of T3

only. I didn't do any better on Nature thyroid but did get a lot worse on T3

only as I tried to follow the 's regime which resulted in my

endocrinologist refusing to prescribe it any more. I have now been off all

thyroid medication since last May as my endocrinologist says that I do not have

a problem with my thyroid, I was very happy to come off the medication as I

would prefer not to take anything at all if possible, however I cannot get off

the HRT due to the sweating problems - there is no effective alternative

treatment.

For many years I was told I had irritable bowel, I would have called it raging

angry bowel myself as it had an awful impact on my quality of life. It has taken

me many, many years to discover that I do not have irritable bowel but do in

fact have an intolerance to lactose and since cutting lactose out of my diet

there has been a remarkable improvement in that respect. I am also intolerant to

carbohydrate and have to follow a very strict low carb diet just to try and

maintain a reasonable weight. My metabolism just doesn't function properly

either on or off thyroid meeds.

I did have pseudo Cushings a few years ago, apparently down to the use of

Dermovate ointment used for pustular palm psoriasis. Most doctors suspect

Cushings but frequent tests do not support the diagnosis and very time the test

comes back normal they lose interest. I am hoping it isn't intermittent Cushings

but this is very, very difficult to diagnose.

I have awful thinning hair and a lack of body hair which has been going on since

about 2000, not one doctor I have seen sees this as relevant but to me it is the

most distressing symptom. There has also been a significant change in my nails

and skin.

Since coming off all thyroid meds I have deteriorated and do have some new

symptoms such as sore eyes which go red and I find it very difficult to wear my

contact lenses at the moment. Sinus keep playing up, sore throats and a tendency

to keep getting colds/virus's. My muscles and joints hurt more than ever and I

am exhausted. I have awful difficulty in keeping my temperature even and suffer

from over heating a lot but also keep getting very cold. Everything seems to

hurt. I also swell and bloat a lot despite a very careful diet and a exercise

regime.

I have been low in vitamin D and my sex hormones were very low way back in the

90's (nobody thought this unusual or relevant) My cholesterol and triglycerides

are both high. I have also been told I have diabetes but test results as long as

I follow the strict diet are normal. I do have an adrenal adenoma which my

endocrinologist says is not relevant. I could go on forever with the history and

symptoms as this only covers a part of a complicated story.

I always deteriorate in the autumn/winter and it does seem to be a bit cyclical

(hence the suspicion of Cyclical Cushings) I have no real idea what to do next,

should I try a small dose of T3, go back on Nature Thyroid or try and stay off

the meeds all together? I am suspicious of my TSH level

but I don't now the best way forward at the moment. I am really not well and I

would like to feel better than I do now.

Sorry to go on at length but that's me at the moment, not well and not at all

sure of the way forward, my endocrinologist is not that helpful and doesn't even

want to see me again until May so I'm left feeling I have to sort this out

myself.

Can anybody offer any advice and what do you think of the recent test results?

Thank you so much for reading this.

[Guest guest]

Sounds a real tough time.

I think you need to look into vits and minerals to help support your adrenals

and thyroid. It would be good to get some blood tests to see how your iron

levels are and stuff like B12, vit d.

Because your thyroid has not been working normally for much of your life this

will have a knock on effect to the adrenals.

So definitley look at all the vits and minerals you can take for these two

areas.

Then take a look at using thyroid meds again. Your blood results do show you

are low in T4 and T3 and the high TSH means your body is calling for more

thyroid to be made.

It may be that you have in the past gone on too high a dose of thyroid meds to

start with. Often it is better to start low and work your way up slowly,

monitoring body signs as you go (blood pressure, heart rate and temperature).

I dont know if this is true, but it is my own theory, but when we have a thyroid

which doesnt work very well, the body reacts to this and closes down the

receptor sites where the T3 would dock in order to give the cell some energy.

So we have cells with limited docking facilities for the T3 to go into. If you

can treat this quite quickly then i think you have a better chance of reviving

the receptor sites.

However, low thyroid function sort of creeps up on people and so they only

realise there is a problem many months down the line (often years). So this

means stimulating the receptor sites to " wake up " again takes a long time (12-24

mths).

Why do i think this is what happens ? Well it is down to my own experience in

the past of using T3. I use T4 and T3, but it was using the T3 (like yourself)

that highlighted this problem to me. I was also trying the wilsons protocol

last may and started on 50 T3 as i was already using this amount with my T4. I

slowly increased as you do over the 12 week period and when i got to 75, 80, 90,

100 i felt really crap. I didn't know what to do. Do i go higher ? Well i cut

back down to 50 and felt much better. After a while i introduced a bit of T4

(25) and this helped me feel really good.

This happend all last summer and autumn and since then i have slowly increased

the T3 up to 75mcgs. I am doing better than ever, but why can i now use 75 T3

when in May/june i couldn't ?

Well i think by using a lower amount of T3 this has allowed the body to get used

to it and then open up to it again in higher amounts.

This maybe what your body needs to do also.

I am sure others will be along with their advise, but i hope this helps

somewhat.

>

> Hi folks

>

> I am new here and not very used to forums and its ways of working so

please bear with me and apologies if I get it wrong. I have a lot of work to do

in exploring this site as there is so much info on it.

>

Moderated to remove previous message.....

[Guest guest]

Hi Derren,

Yep, I'd be susicious of the t4 result too, especially as a tsh of over 4 is

said to contribute to heart problems and you don't want another problem added to

the list....... here is a link to a press release by the society for

endocrinolgy who gave details about the problem of a TSH of over 4.

http://www.endocrinology.org/press/pressreleases/2010-03-16_Thyroxine.pdf

The problems caused by taking thyroid meds could well be down to adrenal

problems.... When prople have thes kinds of pron=blems we ususally say sort

out the adrenals before taking the meds...... In fact this is the advice on the

patient information leaflet for levothyoxine. I don't know much about an

adrenal adenoma but a google search says that many of them are just lumps

which don't cause a problem.... though some do. In view of the way the

thyroid meds are not agreeing with you I'd be wanting to know more about the

adrenal function. Might it be worth having a saliva test to see how well

they are coping. (about £70 from Genova diagnostics)?

The sex hormones and vitamin D.... did you do anything about them? Lots of us

use progesterone cream (serenity) as this is often out of balance, allowing

estrogen dominance.. thyroid hormones don't do very well with estrogen.......

The progesterone is good for reducing sweats too.... have a look here:

www.progesterone.com

The vitamin D if low, is a problem as it's related to bones and aches.......

You can get it tested privately for £20.

When you post test results, can you post the reference ranges too please, most

labs use slightly different ranges for free t3 and t4, so it's a bit difficult

to comment. However, you should be aiming to be in the top third of the range

for T4 and T3, usually with a TSH of less than 1.

Hope this helps, it's a start and no doubt someone else will chip in too!

x

>

> Hi folks

>

> I am new here and not very used to forums and its ways of working so

please bear with me and apologies if I get it wrong. I have a lot of work to do

in exploring this site as there is so much info on it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Derren, welcome to our forum and I hope you get all the

help and support you need. The more you use our group the quicker you

will get used to it. Yes, there is a great deal of information here, and we

will help you in finding what you need.

Your thyroid function test showing TSH of 5.82,

free T3 of 4.1 and free T4 of only 11.7 shows that you are, indeed, suffering

with hypothyroidism. Where on earth was your endocrinologist trained - in fact,

HAS s/he been trained about thyroid disease, or is their specialty (which I

suspect) in diabetes only. Leave this endoprat immediately, and find one who

actually cares about his patients and knows what s/he is talking about. I will

send you a list of recommended doctors by our members - but these are

doctors who will treat using other thyroid hormones apart from

levothyroxine-only, so I guess they know more about thyroid disease than the

average endocrinologist.

TSH should be around 1.0 for

'normal' functioning.

free T3 should be in the upper

third of the reference range and yours is not there.

Free T4 (if not taking any form

of thyroid hormone replacement) should be just above the middle of the

reference range, which means that yours should be around 15 or 16.

Has your doctor tested you to

see whether you have antibodies to your thyroid (Hashimoto's disease)? Ask for

a TPO and TgAb test. Are there other members of your family with a thyroid or

autoimmune disease - tell your GP if there are?

I am shocked to learn about what

you have been through since you were first diagnosed and now hope that we can

help you find whatever it was that was stopping the other various forms of

thyroid hormone replacement from working.

I have attached a document

showing several associated conditions that go along with being hypothyroid and

you should scour these with a fine tooth comb and go through all of these by

way of a process of elimination. Only then can you start to see the light, but

there IS light at the end of the tunnel - honestly.

The first thing that I would do in your case is to

write a letter to my GP and ask him to test specific nutrients to see where

their level is in the reference range. If any of these specific

minerals/vitamins are low in the reference range, no amount of thyroid hormone,

whatever its variety, can be properly utilised at the cellular level. These are

iron, transferrin saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium,

folate, copper and zinc. Tell your GP in the letter that there is much research

and studies that have been done to show this, and enclose a copy of the

attached to show him/her the need to get your levels tested. Also, have you

ever been tested to see whether you are suffering with antibodies to your

thyroid. These are TPO and TgAb. Are there other members of your family with a

thyroid or autoimmune disease? When you get these results, post them here

together with the reference range and we will help with their interpretation. ALWAYS

add reference ranges to any results you give us.

At the same time here, ask for

your sex hormones to be properly tested. For many who are hypothyroidism, they

suffer with oestrogen dominance and need progesterone to balance the two - if

you have high oestrogen and low progesterone, this could account for your sweating

Tell your GP in the letter that

if he is unable to do those tests, then you want to be referred to an

endocrinologist of your choice because you will not be going back to see a

diabetes specialist who knows little to nothing about thyroid disease. You now

have to take your thyroid health into your own hands and tell the doctor

exactly what you want, and ask him to work with you - and not against you. So,

be assertive, and if you are not already, then you will have to learn to be if

you want to get better.

What HRT are you using - it is probably

the wrong one and is the cause of your problems.

Have you considered going on a

gluten free diet?

Both body and cranial hair loss

can be attributed to thyroid/adrenal/low iron/low ferritin levels. It is an

awful worry for women especially, I know, I wear a wig because of my severe

hair loss, but believe me, wigs these days are absolutely fantastic and nobody

can tell and as light as a feather. However it might not come to that, but we

have to learn to live with what we have in the best way possible, if there is

nothing we can do about it.

Keep a check on your temperature three times daily

according to Dr Rind's Metabolic Temperature Graph, this will help in deciding

whether your problems are mainly thyroid or adrenal related. See http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

I would not be satisfied that

your endocrinologist has told you your adrenal adenoma is not relevant. This

needs to be checked by somebody who specialises in adrenal disease and

therefore, ask your GP for a referral to such a specialist. This could be

accounting for the majority of your problems. If it has never been checked out,

it needs to be.

Most of people suffering with

symptoms of hypothyroidism need more thyroid hormone in the winter months and

less in the summer - that is the nature of the beast.

Get writing this letter of

requests too your GP Derren. Send a copy to the Head of Practice and keep a

copy for yourself. You now have to let your doctors know that come what may,

you are determined to find the cause of your many problems and that you hope

they will work with you in finding this cause.

Meanwhile, if possible, get your

24 hour salivary adrenal profile done as quickly as possible. Go here thyroid treatment/files/DISCOUNTS%20ON%20SUPPLEMENTS%20and%20TESTS/

and on the page that opens, click on 'Genova Diagnostics' and follow the

instructions there for ordering. You need to write that 'Thyroid Patient

Advocacy' is your practitioner in order to get your discount.

Good luck.

Luv - Sheila

I always deteriorate in the autumn/winter and it does seem to be a bit cyclical

(hence the suspicion of Cyclical Cushings) I have no real idea what to do next,

should I try a small dose of T3, go back on Nature Thyroid or try and stay off

the meeds all together? I am suspicious of my TSH level

but I don't now the best way forward at the moment. I am really not well and I

would like to feel better than I do now.

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4735 - Release Date: 01/10/12

2 of 2 File(s)

WHY THYROID HORMONE REPLACEMENT MAY NOT BE WORKING FOR YOU.doc

MINERALS AND VIT. TESTING.doc

[Guest guest]

Hi Thank you so much for this, having suffered from a thyroid problem since I was a child I really do despair at the lack of appropriate help for those of us who don't seem to respond as expected to conventional treatment. I know just how slow it is to respond to anything and this is a problem because it can be months before you realise things are really wrong.I had a really bad experience with T3 only following s - it's the only time my body has responded to thyroid meds so quickly and so badly! I think it might be that this is a hint - I have no idea why I can take so much Thyroxine with so little effect but not so with T3 only, so I'm still wondering about reverse T3.I take a quality multi-vit and a high strength vit D every day, I really didn't want to go back on meds but think I may have no option. I'm really interested in the fact that you had similar problems with T3 and really thrilled to read that it now seems to be working for you - that gives me a lot of hope. Where do you get your T3 from? if I decide to go back onto this I will need to buy it on line I guess as I doubt my GP will prescribe it. I think a very low dose to start might be a way forward - it's either that or back onto Nature Thyroid I think.It's really hopeful to know that the T3 is now working for you and maybe it will work for me, heaven only knows but I do know I need to do something and soon. I am also concerned about my adrenals, I know that an adenoma doesn't always mean much and if I had no other problems I wouldn't give it a thought but I am suspicious.I just despair about endocrine problems and the difficulty in getting any help, it just feels so lonely and hopelessDebsOn 11 Jan 2012, at 23:09, wrote:

Sounds a real tough time.

I

This maybe what your body needs to do also.

I am sure others will be along with their advise, but i hope this helps somewhat.

>

> Hi folks

>

> I am new here and not very used to forums and its ways of working so please bear with me and apologies if I get it wrong. I have a lot of work to do in exploring this site as there is so much info on it.

>

Moderated to remove previous message.....

Kind regardsDeborah ReesCQSW | PG DIP | MAe: debs@...w: www.safeconcerts.comThis message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.

[Guest guest]

Hi It's Debs here, Derren is my long suffering partner and I used his account to sign up. Thanks you so much for responding to me, I feel so desperate at the moment and so unsure what the best thing to do is. That article was very useful, I noticed that my blood pressure dropped a bit off the thyroid meds but am now concerned as I am convinced the TSH is very wrong and I am now starting to feel really bad. I've had virus after virus lately, awful headaches and a rash of other symptoms (on top of the usual thyroid nasties!) I think I may need to concede defeat and return to thyroid meds but am not sure which one to choose.I am concerned about my adrenals too, if I had an adenoma without any symptoms I wouldn't be worried, I did have a saliva test done but I don't think my Endo did it correctly so I am not convinced I can exclude it yet. I don't think my adrenals are functioning properly - my 'startle' response is quite good at times! I tried the serenity cream but didn't do well with it, I seem to respond very badly to hormone replacement and I think that being put on HRT so young was a very big error that has ruined any chance I have of getting the hormones balanced properly. I can't get off the HRT and have tried so many times.Vitamin D has been low, I am currently taking prescription strength doses for a while whilst I wait for the latest test to come back.The ref ranges they are using are TSH 0.3 to 5.5, Free T3 3.9 to 6.8 and Free T4 12 to 22.Am feeling so rough at the moment I need to do something but I just don't know the best way forward, one things for sure the doctors are not going to help me so it's going to have to be a diy solution! I thought I could manage off the meds and for quite a long time I have but the deterioration now is getting too much.The consensus so far seems to be that this is too low so maybe it's time I went back onto some form of meds, it's all too confusing at the moment - and I have far too much brain fog.Thank you so much for responding, it really does mean a lot to me at the moment.DebsxOn 11 Jan 2012, at 23:44, Galathea wrote:

Hope this helps, it's a start and no doubt someone else will chip in too!

x

>

> Hi folks

>

> I am new here and not very used to forums and its ways of working so please bear with me and apologies if I get it wrong. I have a lot of work to do in exploring this site as there is so much info on it.

>

>

Kind regardsDeborah ReesCQSW | PG DIP | MAe: debs@...w: www.safeconcerts.comThis message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.

[Guest guest]

Hi Debs

Yes, you have responded in the right way, but when you respond

to any message, leave just a small portion of what you are responding to and

delete the rest, otherwise it gets frustrating for those reading from a Daily

Digest or direct from the web site as they have to scroll through too much

stuff they have already read. However, it appears that whoever approved your

message has deleted everything I wrote previously, so I will just have to trust

you have answered the questions I asked. I will intersperse my comments in your

message.

Last year I had a thyroid antibodies test when I was on T3

it was said to be high - 581.0 iu/ml ref being (<100.0) but again I was told

this is normal for someone with my history.

The cause for most people's symptoms of hypothyroidism is

Hashimoto's disease, i.e. high TPO and Tg antibodies. For those who have

thyroid antibodies, it is likely they may have other autoimmune diseases too

and likely that other members of their family also have a thyroid or autoimmune

disease.

I managed to persuade my endo to do the saliva test, I've

been going through my papers today and can't find the results, I know she told

me they were normal, if memory serves me correctly she said it was hardly

traceable and that was right for a midnight salivary cortisol. As far as I

understand things the salivary tests should be done at intervals throughout the

day thus tracking what is actually happening on a 24 hour basis? mine was done

on a midnight and 9am so should I arrange another?

I have not heard of the NHS doing a saliva test to check

cortisol levels, but one test at midnight is no good. Cortisol is at it's

lowest at that time of the day so we can go to sleep. Cortisol should be

checked at 8.00a.m. (when it should be at its highest), 12 noon, 4.00p.m. and

again at midnight.

I can track a 24 hour urinary set of tests to Dec 2010 which

were 24 hour urinary free cortisol 162 (ref: <280 volume 282)

24 hour urinary catecholamines: noradrenaline 282 (ref

<800) adrenaline 96 (ref <100 volume 283)

Aldosterone/renin ratio 256 (ref: <800) - so those were

all normal.

These are all very low and you

must get the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile done through Genova Diagnostics.

Check out our FILES SECTION accessible from the Menu on the Home Page. Scroll

down to the folder entitled 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements' - on the page

that opens, scroll down to Genova Diagnostics and follow the instructions

there.

Interestingly at that time when I was on 3 grains of Nature

Thyroid and the results (same ref ranges) were TSH 0.1, Free T3 5.4 and Free T4

12.4, does that tell me anything?

This tells you that these results are where such results should

be when you are taking natural thyroid extract. However, we need to know

whether you took your 3 grains of Nature Throid the morning you had your blood

drawn, or did you take your last dose the day before?

Yes - endocrine/thyroid problems run in the family -

daughter, mother, grandmother etc.etc

Did you tell your endocrinologist/GP this. This is very

important.

I had vitamin levels tested when I was in Barts back in 2000

being tested for Cushings, as I recall they were all fine except Vitamin D

which was low, I was put on the Calciferol strong dose but no-one ever

re-checked, this was supposed to be done in my last blood test but the results

have not been sent to me.

You need to get iron, transferrin saturation%, ferritin, vitamin

B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc tested. If any of these are

low in the reference range no amount of thyroid hormone you are taking is going

to be utilised at the cellular level, whether you are taking synthetic or natural.

Once you have the results, post them on the forum together with the reference

range for each test done. Also, when you get your sex hormone results back,

post them on the forum too.

Yes, gluten is not the thing tried it and got myself tested

for Coeliac - clear. The problem for me is carbohydrate and lactose - the

elimination of lactose has largely resolved the disabling bowel problems.

The test for Coeliac can be flawed, often giving a negative

result when you are positive. What about the elimination of carbohydrate to see

if that helps too?

It's funny but the hair loss is the most distressing of all

those awful symptoms, I have been managing with extensions until recently but

it's getting too fine for that to be a good option and this year I will have to

explore either a wig or the hair replacement mesh - both are not the best and

very expensive. It wouldn't be quite so bad if this was the only problem I was

battling with!

You can get cheaper (but very good wigs) on the NHS. Your doctor

needs to refer you.

Fortunately my GP is lovely, he won't prescribe anything

other than the conventional thyroxine but does allow me to talk to him about it

all and doesn't judge, always refers me to a specialist and really tries to

help within the confines of the way he has to work. I would be sunk without him

- but he has no expertise in thyroid, endocrine or hormone issues so isn't able

to help in the way I would like. He will prescribe medication that I request as

long as it follows the sort of guidelines they have to follow and he doesn't

judge me for buying Nature Thyroid etc on line.

Why is your doctor so afraid of prescribing what you need,

whether it is within the " confines " of mainstream medicine or not?

Doctors are allowed to use whatever guidelines they wish, even if written in

another country and use whatever reference ranges they wish. They are also

allowed to prescribe whatever they feel their patient needs if appropriate.

Doctors do not " have to work within the confines (what are these supposed

to be????). Dr Skinner was reported to the GMC for daring to diagnose and

prescribe outside of 'mainstream' guidelines - when there are NO UK guidelines,

and he had chosen to use the European Guidelines when diagnosing and treating

patients. After 7 years, the GMC have now exonerated him and he is now free to

practice in the way he always has, without any restrictions. Show your doctor

the GMC determination. Doctors should now feel free to do exactly what Dr

Skinner is doing, without living in fear of being reported to the GMC

I think I may try going back on the Nature Thyroid but I

don't want to make a mistake as it was my dream to come off medication and I've

got so close - but the deterioration suggests that however much I may want that

option I'm not going to get it. There is definitely a cyclical nature to this

which I thought was only a thing that happened with Cushings not thyroid but I

don't know now. I know that my endocrine system is not working properly and

never has, but I would hope I can be better than I am now.

If you are suffering with hypothyroidism then you need thyroid

hormone replacement - no other supplements will do. If your thyroid gland is

not producing the thyroid hormone your body needs, or if the levothyroxine is

not converting to T3, then you need to replace it.

You need to do the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile as mentioned

previously and this will show whether you could be suffering with Cushing's

disease or not.

As for changing the Endo, I've seen so many and none have

helped me, I really think I have to do this myself somehow, years of experience

has shown me that they are not going to help with this and I have to find my

own way through.

Probably natural thyroid extract is not working for you because

it cannot. i.e. you have a (or more) associated conditions going along with

being hypothyroid that must be recognised and treated. See attached.

The secret is to take one small step at a time and deal with

that first, before going on to the next issue. With brain fog, it becomes

almost impossible to take everything in, so deal with your problem this way,

and we will get there. There is light at the end of the tunnel - honestly!

Luv - Sheila

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WHY THYROID HORMONE REPLACEMENT MAY NOT BE WORKING FOR YOU.doc

[Guest guest]

Hi Debs

I get my T3 from " my mexican drug store " . I also get some on the NHS.

If you try the T3 you need to start low and take it at 3 or 4 set times in the

day. Giving 4 or 5h's between doses. When you start low you will probably only

dose T3 on the first dose and then leave it for the rest of the day. eg, try

1/2 T3 tablet on the first dose and stick to this for 3 days. Then add 1/4

doses.

This link explains about dosing http://thyroid-rt3.com/dosing.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Thanks for that, I followed the regime last time I tried T3 only and am a bit wary of doing it again at the moment given that I've been off all thyroid meds since last May. I'm a bit worried as my TSH is quite high at 5.8 and I do feel ghastly at the moment - which according to my Endo will be nothing to do with my thyroid! Then again my Endo is offering me no other explanation or resolution so I can either continue to deteriorate or take matters into my own hands again. I've just started taking half a grain of Nature-Throid which I will up to one grain in a weeks time, my thyroid is so slow to respond it's probably going to take a while. I am going to get the reverse T3 test done once I feel a bit better (I hope I will feel better at some point!) with my history I may have to explore the possibility of T3 only therapy but am just a bit wary because I responded so badly to it last time. I hate my thyroid and endocrine system with a vengeance - almost as much as it seems to hate me!It's really helpful to know that the T3 is working for you - did you get the reverse T3 test done?On 14 Jan 2012, at 18:47, wrote:

moderated to remove adverts, bylines and old messages......

(sigh!)

[Guest guest]

Dear moderatorI'm really, really sorry you had to moderate my post with a sigh as I didn't delete all that I should have, I am feeling really unwell at the moment with a foggy brain and am new to this forum and this style of forum. I don't get the style at all yet although I am quite computer literate and run my own website.I am a long term thyroid sufferer who is absolutely desperate for some support and help at the moment, I have not deluged the forum with posts although I have so many questions to ask - the 'sigh' comment has left me feeling a bit wary of posting again in case I get it wrong. DevastatedOn 15 Jan 2012, at 12:38, Deborah Rees wrote:

Hi Thanks for that, I followed the regime last time I tried T3 only and am a bit wary of doing it again at the moment given that I've been off all thyroid meds since last May. I'm a bit worried as my TSH is quite high at 5.8 and I do feel ghastly at the moment - which according to my Endo will be nothing to do with my thyroid!

[Ed]

I'm sorry someone added a sigh; it shouldn't have happened, Bob

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:38:11 +0000, you wrote:

> I may have to explore the possibility of T3 only therapy but am just a bit

wary because I responded so badly to it last time. I hate my thyroid and

endocrine system with a vengeance - almost as much as it seems to hate me!

>

>It's really helpful to know that the T3 is working for you - did you get the

reverse T3 test done?

There are 2 main reasons for thyroid treatment causing a bad response.

Low iron or low adrenals.

Labs are needed for low iron

Adrenals are ideally checked with a 4 times a day saliva test but can

also be checked by looking at temperature stability from day to day as

per Dr Rind.

If you are on adrenal support then the temperature check is the only

one that works.

T3 seems to show these deficiencies quicker than T4 (as it builds up

quicker) but it is just as important on natural or T4.

If you need links let me know

Nick

[Guest guest]

Deborah, it is important at this time that you ask your GP to

check your levels of iron, transferrin saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12,

vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc before even considering what

thyroid hormone you should be taking. If any of these are low in the reference

range, no amount of thyroid hormone will be able to do what it is supposed to

do. Please do not consider T3 at this stage, or even, for that matter doing an

rT3 test UNTIL you know what these results are. Also do not let the GP tell you

any of your blood exults are 'normal'. We need to know the result and the

reference range to see whether your results are at the bottom, the middle or

the top of the range.

Luv -- Sheila

Thanks for that, I followed the regime last time I tried T3

only and am a bit wary of doing it again at the moment given that I've been off

all thyroid meds since last May. I'm a bit worried as my TSH is quite high at

5.8 and I do feel ghastly at the moment - which according to my Endo will be

nothing to do with my thyroid! Then again my Endo is offering me no other

explanation or resolution so I can either continue to deteriorate or take

matters into my own hands again. I've just started taking half a grain of

Nature-Throid which I will up to one grain in a weeks time, my thyroid is so

slow to respond it's probably going to take a while. I am going to get the

reverse T3 test done once I feel a bit better (I hope I will feel better at

some point!) with my history I may have to explore the possibility of T3 only

therapy but am just a bit wary because I responded so badly to it last time. I

hate my thyroid and endocrine system with a vengeance - almost as much as it

seems to hate me!

It's really helpful to know that the T3 is working for you -

did you get the reverse T3 test done?

[Guest guest]

I did get RT3 done, but i don't beleive it is really worth getting. We all have

RT3, it is normal. If you are not feeling well then you can assume RT3 will be

higher.

Knowing you have high RT3 doesnt really help that much. Some may disagree here,

but it is much better to get FT3,Ft4 and anti bodies tested.

This lady doesnt rate the RT3 test that much either. Her web page is really

worth reading though. http://tiredthyroid.com/rt3.html

I am pretty sure you need to look into the adrenal support and maybe iron and

then start using T4/T3 in low amounts and build up slowly. It will take a long

time to get better, but you can do it. It has happened to me and i was

scrabbling around for 2 yrs before i really started to make some progress.

ps. When posting it is normal to cut the posts down so we dont have to go

through post after post. Other groups prefer to keep the posts as a record. It

is just one of those specific things to this group and is nothing personal.

[Guest guest]

Hi Deborah, the 'sign' was made by and you must not take

this to heart and be upset by it - but I agree, the comment of a 'sigh' should

not have been added.

It is just that some of our members, no matter how many

times they are asked, will insist on leaving whole messages that everybody has

read appended to their response and many members complain to the moderators

about these, because some read either direct from the web site, or receive a

Daily Digest where there are up to 25 messages in just 1 email, and they have

to scroll through all these 'previous' messages they have read before they can

get to reading the next message. The moderators have to read through all the

messages that are posted before approving them, and some messages we can 'edit'

ourselves, and some (those written in HTML) have to be sent back to the writer

if anything needs to be edited asking them to resend. Moderators are not paid,

and do this in their own time and spend many hours on the forum ensuring that

it runs well, but we do get the odd little 'blip' and this appears to be one of

them.

Please don't worry, these things happen and you will soon get

used to the ways of '' before you know what you are doing. has a

'HELP' section and you will find this on the Home Page, just click on it, and

if you have any questions about the workings of the forum, check to see if the

answer is there, it probably is, and if not, you can type in the question you

need answering and send it off to who will get back to you with an

answer.

Luv - Sheila

Dear moderator

I'm really, really sorry you had to moderate my post with a

sigh as I didn't delete all that I should have, I am feeling really unwell at

the moment with a foggy brain and am new to this forum and this style of forum.

I don't get the style at all yet although I am quite computer literate

and run my own website.

I am a long term thyroid sufferer who is absolutely

desperate for some support and help at the moment, I have not deluged the forum

with posts although I have so many questions to ask - the 'sigh' comment has

left me feeling a bit wary of posting again in case I get it wrong. Devastated

On 15 Jan 2012, at 12:38, Deborah Rees wrote:

[Guest guest]

Hi NickThanks you ever so much for coming back to me. I am suspicious as to my adrenal function and think it is possible that my Endo has not interpretted the test results correctly, I will be getting the saliva test done again but properly this time. I think my iron levels are okay and am awaiting test results for vitamin D which was low a while back. Until then I am slowly going back onto Nature-Throid as I simply cannot continue to let myself get worse than I am at the moment. I will be re-looking at the whole T3 debate again once my brain clears a little, once again thanks.Debs.

Kind regardsDeborah ReesCQSW | PG DIP | MAe: debs@...w: www.safeconcerts.comThis message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sheila, I don't think I will re-start T3 at this stage and will work with the Nature-Throid. I will ask my GP to do the tests and try and get hold of my vitamin D results. My Endo is absolutely adamant that there is nothing wrong with my thyroid so I will not get much help from her.Debs

Kind regardsDeborah ReesCQSW | PG DIP | MAe: debs@...w: www.safeconcerts.comThis message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila, I know how hard you guys work and shouldn't have got upset but it did upset me a lot, I think it's a reflection of how ill I feel at the moment and the fact that everything is such a struggle - even the simplest things. It just made me feel a bit wary about posting in case I get it wrong again.Deb.

Kind regardsDeborah ReesCQSW | PG DIP | MAe: debs@...w: www.safeconcerts.comThis message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.

[Guest guest]

Thank you , I'm pretty sure my test results are not right and am starting on Nature-Throid again while I get my adrenals retested, I am also of the opinion that all is not well there. This will take some time but it is helpful to know that the reverse T3 test may not be of the sort of benefit I assumed it would. I've been on high strength (prescription Vit D for 4 weeks now - no improvement yet) and only 3 days into thyroid meds and a very low dose so I can't expect anything just yet. Thank you so much for the link.Debs.

Kind regardsDeborah ReesCQSW | PG DIP | MAe: debs@...w: www.safeconcerts.comThis message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us may be monitored. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company.

[Guest guest]

Debs - never ever " think " that your iron levels are

OK. Get them properly checked so we know for sure.

Sheila

Thanks you ever so much for coming back to me. I am

suspicious as to my adrenal function and think it is possible that my Endo has

not interpretted the test results correctly, I will be getting the saliva test

done again but properly this time. I think my iron levels are okay and am

awaiting test results for vitamin D which was low a while back. Until then I am

slowly going back onto Nature-Throid as I simply cannot continue to let myself

get worse than I am at the moment. I will be re-looking at the whole T3 debate

again once my brain clears a little, once again thanks.

Debs

..

Kind regards

Deborah Rees

CQSW | PG DIP | MA

e: debs@...

w: www.safeconcerts.com

This message (and any associated

files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is

addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to

copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient

you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this

message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying

to the message and deleting it from your computer. Messages sent to and from us

may be monitored.

Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be

secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,

destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Therefore, we do not

accept responsibility for any errors or omissions that are present in this

message, or any attachment, that have arisen as a result of e-mail

transmission. If verification is required, please request a hard-copy version.

Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not

necessarily represent those of the company.

No

virus found in this message.

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Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4744 - Release Date: 01/15/12

[Guest guest]

You can always try a different Endo - preferably one of your

choice and one who does not hold their specialty in diabetes, as I am sure

yours does.

Luv =- Sheila

Thank you Sheila, I don't think I will re-start T3 at this stage and will

work with the Nature-Throid. I will ask my GP to do the tests and try and get

hold of my vitamin D results. My Endo is absolutely adamant that there is

nothing wrong with my thyroid so I will not get much help from her.

Debs

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 16:53:12 -0000, you wrote:

>I did get RT3 done, but i don't beleive it is really worth getting. We all

have RT3, it is normal. If you are not feeling well then you can assume RT3

will be higher.

>

>Knowing you have high RT3 doesnt really help that much. Some may disagree

here, but it is much better to get FT3,Ft4 and anti bodies tested.

>

>This lady doesnt rate the RT3 test that much either. Her web page is really

worth reading though. http://tiredthyroid.com/rt3.html

Looks like she's read up on it but never talked to people who have

been on T3 having had RT3 dominance.

For those of us who have had an excess of RT3 for one of many reasons

it occurr T3 can make a world od difference.

I've been on T3 only for nearly 4 years now and it's made a world of

difference to me. I swore by Armour before that but would never go

back now.

If you don't have an RT3 issue then a mix of T3 and T4 is normally the

best way to go.

As always it is essential to get iron and adrenals right for any

thyroid treatmen to work.

Nick

[Guest guest]

Was told it was okay a few years back when the vitamin D deficiency was

uncovered but I will ask for it to be done again just in case - thank you

Debs

[Guest guest]

Sheila

I've seen a few, none are helpful, I think I'm better on meds than off so will

see how it goes, my GP will test my thyroid as often as I need it. The Endo's I

have seen all seem to hold the same views and none of them are very open-minded

- especially toward TPA, Thanks though

Debs

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nick - it looks like T3 works for a lot of people so I will keep a close

eye on things. Concerned to lower my TSH at the moment, I don't think it's ever

been this high and I have a lot of new symptoms which suggest my first step is

to go back on the meds and get this lower. I will be getting some of those tests

done asap.

Keep well

Debs

[Guest guest]

What your results were a few years back Debs are nothing

whatsoever to do with what your results might be today. Let us know the results

when you get these back.

Luv - Sheila

Was told it was okay a few years back when the

vitamin D deficiency was uncovered but I will ask for it to be done again just

in case - thank you

Debs

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4744 - Release Date: 01/15/12