Probiotics

[Guest guest]

Has anyone tried enzymatic therapy product " Acidophilus Pearls " ?

I have been using it. I have not done an objective test to prove that

this is effective than any other probiotics product.

Dr. teitalbaum is now recommending this.

Thanks

Gayathri.

---------------------------

Acidophilus Pearls™

(with Patented True Delivery™ Technology)

With L. acidophilus and B. longum to increase healthy intestinal

flora†

Acidophilus Pearls™ with patented True Delivery™ Technology protect

the Lactobacilus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium longum from stomach

acids, and guarantee delivery into the intestine, where they are

released intact to increase healthy intestinal flora.† Unlike other

enteric-coated products which offer no on-shelf protection (and only

minimal protection against stomach acids), patented True Delivery

Technology protects the microflora in Acidophilus Pearls from shelf

conditions like air and light.

Studies show patented Acidophilus Pearls™ deliver up to 900% more

intact microflora to the intestine in relation to label claim than 4

leading competitors, including those with enteric coatings.

----------------------

[Guest guest]

I haven't tried that one, but I've been taking another one called

Culturelle with Lactobacillus GG. It's patented. The sellers of

Culturelle would have you believe that it survives stomach acid,

and, " adheres to and colonizes the intestinal tract, " (stomach

lining,) in a way that's far superior to regular old acidophilus. My

pharmacist ordered it for me, and it cost around $18 for 30 days of

the larger dose, which has a minimum of 20 billion live/active

bacteria. It is dairy and lactose free.

One big downside is that the package says that you have to keep

taking it.

I'm taking a 'regular' 8 billion acidophilus and bifidus, too. I

take one, one day, and one the other. Covering all my bases.

WHO KNOWS about any of this stuff? This whole field of probiotics

seems to be in a pretty primitive state. All of the conflicting

claims can be so confusing, and frustrating.

One thing that I've read about acidophilus, that I do believe, is

that when yogurt is pastuerized it probably kills most, if not

all, " live " bacteria that started out in it in the first place, so

yogurt isn't very likely a good source of acidophilus. Yes, there

are special health food store yogurts, but still.

The wording on the yogurt packages can be very deceptive, too.

Yogurt is still good, and basically healthful, if you can tolerate

lactose, except for the kind w/the artificial sweetners, but I

wouldn't consider it a viable source of much acidophilus.

There is also an issue of whether acidophilus has to be refrigerated

to remain live.

Carolyne

> Has anyone tried enzymatic therapy product " Acidophilus Pearls " ?

>

> I have been using it. I have not done an objective test to prove

that

> this is effective than any other probiotics product.

> Dr. teitalbaum is now recommending this.

>

> Thanks

> Gayathri.

> ---------------------------

> Acidophilus Pearls™

>

> (with Patented True Delivery™ Technology)

> With L. acidophilus and B. longum to increase healthy intestinal

> flora†

>

> Acidophilus Pearls™ with patented True Delivery™ Technology protect

> the Lactobacilus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium longum from

stomach

> acids, and guarantee delivery into the intestine, where they are

> released intact to increase healthy intestinal flora.† Unlike other

> enteric-coated products which offer no on-shelf protection (and

only

> minimal protection against stomach acids), patented True Delivery

> Technology protects the microflora in Acidophilus Pearls from shelf

> conditions like air and light.

>

> Studies show patented Acidophilus Pearls™ deliver up to 900% more

> intact microflora to the intestine in relation to label claim than

4

> leading competitors, including those with enteric coatings.

>

> ----------------------

[Guest guest]

Anyone tried Udo Erasmus probiotics?

I'm up here in Vancouver on vacation, he's Canadian origin but I

believe his stuff is in the states now. As an experiment, we made

homemade yogurt with:

1) biok--which claims to be this fabulous culture

2) udo's stuff (a lot of different organsims)

3) my Natren bifidus

Well, #1 never took--so there are no live organsims in that expensive

crap.

#2 took the fastest--and tastes the most like yogurt

#3, mine, took, a little hwile longer, but it doesn't have that sour

taste. Perhaps bifidus doesn't--maybe its the lactobacillus that does?

So at least i know natren is legit (I already knew from its helping

my symtpoms)

But making yogurt at home is easy and I think you get a ton more

organisms. I'm going to start doing it with both my bifidus, and buy

some of udo's stuff. Of course, one doesn't know which in udo's is

growing the fastest, or if they all are.

[Guest guest]

Carolyn, it is interesting what you say below, especially about

covering all your bases, although you wrote it toung in cheak. I just

read a long article about gut bacteria, and it said in a nutshell

that there are 500 or more strains of good bacteria in the gut, and

that therefore most products that have 2-10 different strains are

probably worthless. That is the quote from the article, not mine.

Surely, if someone is having success with a probiotic, that's great.

Based on the article that I read (Dallas Morning News), it would just

be blind luck for someone to be taking the exact strain(s) that they

really need. I am going to see if I stop taking any, if I can tell

any difference. The exact quote from the Doctor in the article is,

" the products out there, in my opinion, are pretty much useless " .

Mike C.

In , " zuzuspetalsss " <netmail@s...>

wrote:

>

> I'm taking a 'regular' 8 billion acidophilus and bifidus, too. I

> take one, one day, and one the other. Covering all my bases.

>

> WHO KNOWS about any of this stuff? This whole field of probiotics

> seems to be in a pretty primitive state. All of the conflicting

> claims can be so confusing, and frustrating.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gayathri, you should read the article, 'Gut Reactions' in the Texas

living section of Monday's (9/1/03) Dallas Morning News. I learned

a lot. Like there are more than 10 times the bacterial cells in

your gut than there are cells in your whole body. That was news to

me. The article says there are *at least* 500 distinct species.

Mike C.

In , " gayu_pwc7 " <gayu_pwc7@y...>

wrote:

> Has anyone tried enzymatic therapy product " Acidophilus Pearls " ?

>

> I have been using it. I have not done an objective test to prove

that

> this is effective than any other probiotics product.

> Dr. teitalbaum is now recommending this.

>

> Thanks

> Gayathri.

[Guest guest]

> Gayathri, you should read the article, 'Gut Reactions' in the Texas

> living section of Monday's (9/1/03) Dallas Morning News. I learned

> a lot. Like there are more than 10 times the bacterial cells in

> your gut than there are cells in your whole body. That was news to

> me. The article says there are *at least* 500 distinct species.

>

> Mike C.

Mike, I went to the Morning news webswite and they wanted $2.95 for

me to read that article. Is it worth it? Did they say if there was a

product which had all of the 500 species? Did they talk about yeast

overgrowths and what was the best way to treat them? anything else

that stood out.

Bob

[Guest guest]

Thats what Cheney used to mention. Acc to him, " The gut is like a

rainforest, having so many strains of good bacteria. if one takes

antibiotics and wipes off the good bacteria and tries to repopulate

the gut with probiotics, it is like planting a small amt of weeds. It

can never replace the original gut environment " .

I took abx for 15 mnths with no improvement in my symptoms. Wondering

what damage could I have done to my gut?

Thanks Mike,

Gayathri.

> Gayathri, you should read the article, 'Gut Reactions' in the Texas

> living section of Monday's (9/1/03) Dallas Morning News. I learned

> a lot. Like there are more than 10 times the bacterial cells in

> your gut than there are cells in your whole body. That was news to

> me. The article says there are *at least* 500 distinct species.

>

> Mike C.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob. No I summarized most of the salient points. However, I did

save the article and would be open to sending it to someone for free.

It would be good if whoever I sent it to would kind of summarize

their take on the article for the group.

Mike C.

In , " Bob " <blue74730@y...> wrote:

>

> Mike, I went to the Morning news webswite and they wanted $2.95 for

> me to read that article. Is it worth it? Did they say if there was

a

> product which had all of the 500 species? Did they talk about yeast

> overgrowths and what was the best way to treat them? anything else

> that stood out.

>

> Bob

[Guest guest]

G, based on what the article said, you didn't do any damage, you

just wasted a lot of money. But who on this list hasn't tried

something that didn't work out. However, I thought Dr. Cheney would

reccommend probiotics for most all of his patients.

Mike C.

> I took abx for 15 mnths with no improvement in my symptoms.

Wondering

> what damage could I have done to my gut?

>

> Thanks Mike,

> Gayathri.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'd like to receive the probiotics article...I'm very interested in this(make my

own keifer) and would like to know more about it.

Re: Probiotics

Hi Bob. No I summarized most of the salient points. However, I did

save the article and would be open to sending it to someone for free.

It would be good if whoever I sent it to would kind of summarize

their take on the article for the group.

Mike C.

In , " Bob " <blue74730@y...> wrote:

>

> Mike, I went to the Morning news webswite and they wanted $2.95 for

> me to read that article. Is it worth it? Did they say if there was

a

> product which had all of the 500 species? Did they talk about yeast

> overgrowths and what was the best way to treat them? anything else

> that stood out.

>

> Bob

[Guest guest]

I also would like to receive a copy of the article

annemie

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: jbclem [mailto:jbclem@...]

Verzonden: donderdag 4 september 2003 11:41

Aan:

Onderwerp: Re: Re: Probiotics

Hi,

I'd like to receive the probiotics article...I'm very interested in

this(make my own keifer) and would like to know more about it.

Re: Probiotics

Hi Bob. No I summarized most of the salient points. However, I did

save the article and would be open to sending it to someone for free.

It would be good if whoever I sent it to would kind of summarize

their take on the article for the group.

Mike C.

In , " Bob " <blue74730@y...> wrote:

>

> Mike, I went to the Morning news webswite and they wanted $2.95 for

> me to read that article. Is it worth it? Did they say if there was

a

> product which had all of the 500 species? Did they talk about yeast

> overgrowths and what was the best way to treat them? anything else

> that stood out.

>

> Bob

[Guest guest]

As I said, " All of the conflicting claims can be so confusing, and

frustrating. "

So far, I have seen some improvement in some of my symptoms by taking

the Culturelle and Acidophilus/Bifidus. I'm not selling or pushing

anything. That's just my experience.

I'd also like to try VSL#3, which my pharmacist highly recommends,

but it's very expensive, and their brochure says: " After

discontinuation of VSL#3, the number of lactic acid bacteria in the

gut generally returns to previous levels in about two to three

weeks. " Seems a pity to pay $28 for a 10 day supply of a treatment,

which won't last long when you stop taking it.

Carolyne

***************

> >

> > I'm taking a 'regular' 8 billion acidophilus and bifidus, too. I

> > take one, one day, and one the other. Covering all my bases.

> >

> > WHO KNOWS about any of this stuff? This whole field of

probiotics

> > seems to be in a pretty primitive state. All of the conflicting

> > claims can be so confusing, and frustrating.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

> We are using VSL#3 as probiotic

>

> http://www.vsl3.com/vsl3/faq.htm#2

>

> annemie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I have tried many probiotics and cannot say that I have

found them

to be helpful. I would like to hear those that have gotten positive

results

and what types they have been taking.

Thanks,

Mike

[Guest guest]

> Hi All,

> I have tried many probiotics and cannot say that I have

> found them

> to be helpful. I would like to hear those that have gotten positive

> results

> and what types they have been taking.

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mike

*************

Hi Mike,

I took Culturelle Lactobacillus GG, and it helped my stomach, but I

only took it for a month. I'll probably take it again for a month in

a couple of months, too. Or, sooner, if I start to have discomfort.

Carolyne

[Guest guest]

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: zuzuspetalsss [mailto:dreamican@...]

Verzonden: zaterdag 27 september 2003 19:41

Aan:

Onderwerp: Re: probiotics

>

> We are using VSL#3 as probiotic

>

> http://www.vsl3.com/vsl3/faq.htm#2

>

> annemie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nice to hear from you again, Trudy.

Thanks for all the info. will check it out.

So glad you have some improvement. With your GI stuff better, you may see a

gradual improvement of other things.

Best,

Adrienne

Probiotics

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted to this group in a long time, but wish to report the

following as it may benefit others.

I have had incredible bowel problems from the beginning of this illness.

I would like to state up front that my symptoms seemed to be more in

line with colitis, than irritable bowel syndrome. Since I am having

major problems with allopathic medicine, I have never been tested. I

now find that I am a patient advocate and recently wrote a report that

has come out of my difficult and painful experiences with allopathic

medicine. My report can be viewed at:

http://www.elrs.ca/hca/modules.php?op=modload & name=News & file=article & sid=2 & mode=\

thread & order=0 & thold=0

(I suspect that a lot of patients with chronic illnesses are also

victims of covert rationing and blacklisting and many do not even

realize it. For a real education, please be sure to read all of the

Resources provided. I should also mention that this is not my web site.

I was invited to post my article at the site.)

Since going on a PRIMAL DEFENSE/CULTURELLE combo, I have had an amazing

improvement. I have tried many different brands of probiotics over the

past decade, but this is the first time that anything has worked.

Because of the expense of these supplements (here in Canada I am paying

about $70 for each item), I only take one of these each day. When I

told my alt MD about my miraculous improvement, he told me to stay with

the above protocol, and he has added ULTRA FLORA PLUS DF CAPSULES

(Metagenics) to the above. I have also started to eat one daily

serving of yogurt where I open one SUPER 8 HIGH-POTENCY (Udo's Choice),

which claims to have 8 specific strains to improve yeast imbalance,

capsule and spread it directly over my yogurt.

For those who need the scientific seal of approval on the use of

probiotics, check out this article in The Medical Post. From this

article, it would appear that the pharmaceutical companies want to take

away the consumers ability to purchase natural products without a

prescription. Notice how " Dr. Fedorak told delegates he soon expects to

see major changes in the way these " living drugs " are regulated. " For

years, these have been classified by the regulatory agencies as food, "

he said. " For us Canadians, it seems that any supplements that really

work the government takes away from us.

DDW: Probiotics the next best field of treatment?

http://www.medicalpost.com/mpcontent/article.jsp?content=20030606_152916_1028

Also, our local CBC television program " Marketplace, " recently did a

program on probiotics. You can read the article or watch the program.

(Go to the box " Marketplace Extras " and click on last item " Watch this

Item. "

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/food/yogurt/

While I have been enjoying a major improvement in my bowel function, I

am still very disabled with the so-called " Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. "

I recently tried the prebiotic, Inulin, but had disastrous results with

the product. I experienced severe intestinal pain and foul flatulence.

I only lasted two days with the Inulin. Interestingly, I do not have

any problems eating foods with natural sources of inulin.

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/inulin_prebiotic_probiotic.html

(Scroll down to bottom of page for chart on food items that list the

inulin content.)

I realize that not everyone has or will have success with probiotics.

As there has been discussion on this topic previously, I just wanted to

share my experience.

Kind regards,

Trudy

[Guest guest]

Dear Trudy,

Would you mind reposting the link to your story. I couldn't get the

link to take for some reason.

Perhaps you could post a portion of your story here? I would like

to hear more.

Best,

Zippy

[Guest guest]

Hi Trudy and all. I have posted in the last month or so that the

*current* probiotics on the market *may* be pretty much worthless.

However, that is not to say that I agree with everything you say.

It's just that so little is known about which strain will help a

particular individual, there is a good chance that a lot of us will

try probiotics, get no benefit, and then quit them. That's too bad.

For many of us, the use of antibiotics may have killed off a lot of

the good flora in the intestine, and the *right* probiotic is needed.

Problem is that nobody is certain which one that is. I hope we get

better research in this area. And unfortunately, unless patents are

granted or probiotics are done per presciption, there may not be the

incentive for the research to get done.

Mike C.

> Nice to hear from you again, Trudy.

> Thanks for all the info. will check it out.

> So glad you have some improvement. With your GI stuff better, you

may see a gradual improvement of other things.

> Best,

> Adrienne

> Probiotics

>

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I haven't posted to this group in a long time, but wish to report

the

> following as it may benefit others.

>

> I have had incredible bowel problems from the beginning of this

illness.

> I would like to state up front that my symptoms seemed to be more

in

> line with colitis, than irritable bowel syndrome. Since I am

having

> major problems with allopathic medicine, I have never been

tested. I

> now find that I am a patient advocate and recently wrote a report

that

> has come out of my difficult and painful experiences with

allopathic

> medicine. My report can be viewed at:

>

> http://www.elrs.ca/hca/modules.php?

op=modload & name=News & file=article & sid=2 & mode=thread & order=0 & thold=0

[Guest guest]

Trudy, the article that I saw said that most of the probiotics on the

market are worthless. What my point is is that even though PD/C

worked for you, it may not help many of the rest of us although

it may help say 10-30%. Yes, multiple strains would be better.

But getting back to the analogy with antibiotics, just because one

has an infection doesn't mean that penicillin will kill it. It depends

on what kind of infection. So it depends on which good flora one

is lacking in the gut. You were lucky in that you found PD/C which

seems to be what *you* need. I don't think the 'researchers' are

doing a very good job of attempting to determine which probiotic a

particular individual needs. It just seems that each manufacturer of

probiotics says that theirs is good or the best without any

justification. However, given your success with the PD/C, I may just

have to give it a try. It is unfortunate that the state of the art

with probiotics is to keep trying different ones until you find one

that works for you. Best regards,

Mike C.

In , Trudy Newman <tnew@t...> wrote:

> Hi Mike,

>

> Did you see this article by Mercola where he claimed that 1/3 of

the probiotics tested were worthless?

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/jul/11/probiotics.htm

>

> As I stated earlier, over the past decade I have tried many brands

of probiotics. It was only when I tried the Primal

Defense/Culturelle combo that I experienced success.

[Guest guest]

To add my 2 cents. I think it is important not to overreact to one article or

study. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Do they help you? Help, in a

medical research sense, might be very different than what you consider an

improvement. For example, when I take certain antibiotics without probiotics I

get diarrhea, but with them I don't. So that is a help. But is it an

improvement in a research sense? Probably not as my CFIDS stll exists.

I am convinced that research studies are not very useful for us, and maybe the

reason is that we are different subgroups, or just that we respond to things

differently. What convinced me of this were studies " proving " no benefit from

gamma globulin injections (not enough people were helped to say that it worked)

while I knew damn well that it worked for me. Similar case with antibiotics.

Thanks,

Doris

[Guest guest]

Sheri, I don't know what you can get in the UK, but I use something from

Enzymatica...they are little pearls...they work very well and don't

cause me stomach problems.

A couple of years ago, I got something called Dolphi or Delphi Pectin

(something like that, ugh), and that stuff was the best I've ever used,

but you can only get it from a health professional, and mine quit

carrying supplements.

Jordan Rubin's Primal Defense is excellent for a lot of people,

life-changing even, BUT, I never could tolerate it, gave me horrible

stomach cramps, and that does not seem to be uncommon. You either do

very well or very poorly with it.

HTH,

M

[Guest guest]

Just ask for it at your local health food store. :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi Blake - thanks for the lab refs. I for one have no idea what is going

on in my gut - but it sure does a lot 'talking' ;-)

Rosie

Hi,

'Individual Wellbeing Diagnostic Laboratories' in Surrey does a

comprehensive stool analysis and parasitology test. http://www.iwdl.net/

There is another good lab in London: http://www.biolab.co.uk/

I would suggest you get tested. Who knows what is going on in your gut

(bacteria, yeast, parasites, other digestive issues, etc.)

Blake

Rosie wrote:

> Hi Blake, No I haven't had the test you describe and I'm not sure

that

> anyone here in the UK is much bothered about doing them (I do see an

> environmental ME doc in Oct so I could ask her about it). The

probiotic

> I tried was 'Prime Directive' - I had asked the list if anyone had

tried

> it but got no reply's so assumed that no-one had. Quite a few people

in

> the UK have suggested it's use as well as some practitioners in

> Australia so I understand. Hence I decided to give it a go. The

usual

> dose is up to 3 tsps per day but it was suggested I start with 1/8th

> every other day. After feeling groggy from the first dose, the next I

> reduced to notably less than 1/8th tsp and then 24 hrs later I was

very

> very sick. I'm not sure how much bacteria were supposed to be in the

> preparation, though I do know it had a wider range of bacteria than

many

> products and they were fermented and in 'food form'. It was suggested

> by the clinic which provided the supplement to try a few 'grains' at a

> time and if I can get rid of this ensuing nausea I might try that.

> In view of your question about the stool analysis, what do you have in

> mind that may or may not be going on which the analysis could show up,

> and which might reflect the reason for this particular response with

> this pro-biotic?

>

> Rosie

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

'Individual Wellbeing Diagnostic Laboratories' in Surrey does a

comprehensive stool analysis and parasitology test. http://www.iwdl.net/

There is another good lab in London: http://www.biolab.co.uk/

I would suggest you get tested. Who knows what is going on in your gut

(bacteria, yeast, parasites, other digestive issues, etc.)

Blake

Rosie wrote:

> Hi Blake, No I haven't had the test you describe and I'm not sure that

> anyone here in the UK is much bothered about doing them (I do see an

> environmental ME doc in Oct so I could ask her about it). The probiotic

> I tried was 'Prime Directive' - I had asked the list if anyone had tried

> it but got no reply's so assumed that no-one had. Quite a few people in

> the UK have suggested it's use as well as some practitioners in

> Australia so I understand. Hence I decided to give it a go. The usual

> dose is up to 3 tsps per day but it was suggested I start with 1/8th

> every other day. After feeling groggy from the first dose, the next I

> reduced to notably less than 1/8th tsp and then 24 hrs later I was very

> very sick. I'm not sure how much bacteria were supposed to be in the

> preparation, though I do know it had a wider range of bacteria than many

> products and they were fermented and in 'food form'. It was suggested

> by the clinic which provided the supplement to try a few 'grains' at a

> time and if I can get rid of this ensuing nausea I might try that.

> In view of your question about the stool analysis, what do you have in

> mind that may or may not be going on which the analysis could show up,

> and which might reflect the reason for this particular response with

> this pro-biotic?

>

> Rosie