Re: These are my test results - What do I do now? My GP won't help me!

[Guest guest]

TSH: 0.35 (0.27 - 4.2)T4: 15 (12-22)FT3: 4.0 (3.9-6.7)Ferritin: 41 (13-150)Ca: 2.33 (2.1-2.55)Mg: 0.82 (0.7-1)RT3 - THEY APPARENTLY CAN'T DO THIS, MY GP SAID HE ENQUIRED, and he also asked for it on the form...Folate: 19.8 (4.6-18.7)

B12: 709 (197-866)TPO: 1iu (>50iu)White Blood Cell: 4.03 (4.00-10.5)Lymphocite: 1.2 (1.3-4)Hemoglobin: 14 (11-16)Albumin: 42 (35-49)

Hello Anita,

Looking at your blood results, there are a few issues that stand out...

Most and foremost – low iron. No amount or kind of thyroid hormone will work properly until and unless you manage to bring up your ferritin around the 90 mark. – So this is your first goal – concentrate on getting the iron up... and remember to take all iron at least 4 hours (either side) away from any thyroid hormone.

We increased my T4 last year to 75mcgand then to a 100mcg, but my FT3 stayed low and I had hyper symptoms...)

Right.... but what was your ferritin level at that time? As I said above – nothing will work unless your iron is at a decent level. I would try again – mega effort to bump up the iron and increase the Levo to 75 mcg. We are all different, so there is no way of saying with any certainty that you need to take iron forever, but you need to have it checked in regular intervals (every 6 months I would suggest) and to do whatever it takes to keep the level up.

Perhaps it would help to point out to your GP the following -

***Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1. Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2. SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3. Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4. Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low iron is probably your main issue but you also mention Candida.

In Dec I took Nystatin for a month followed by Lufenuron in Jan (for the Candida), and take bicarbonate of soda every morning in water.

Did the Lufenuron work for you? Did you get a severe Herxheimer reaction with cracked lips and all the rest of it? I am very interested in the effects of Lufenuron myself. I ordered some on the strength of Dr. Myhill's recommendation on her website. But after ordering I got cold feet when I read some of the accounts on Vaughter's forum, where one person in particular had allegedly a severe long-term reaction to Lufenuron and some others were also complaining about side effects. – Anyway, my order went astray and kindly refunded my money, so I am now back to square one and a bit scared to go ahead with a re-order. I ask about the Herxheimer reaction because according to V. ... if you don't get Herxheimer's on Lufenuron then you don't have mucosal Candida. On her forum expresses some very strong views on the whole subject, some of which go against everything I have learned about Candida so far; so I am most interested in gathering more information and read about peoples experiences with Lufenuron.

I asked him why my White Blood Cell and Lymphocite is always so low, and he said'it could be a number of things' but dismissed it as a problem! Surely that'snot normal??

No, it is not `normal', but I have noticed that most `hypos' have low WBC (myself included). I associate a low WBC with low immunity.... and low immunity comes with the low thyroid territory. Low Lymphocytes for instance can be a result of extreme stress.... you obviously suffer from low adrenal function and stress is the main culprit for that.

As for Ca and Mag.... I see no need to supplement calcium at all, but your magnesium level would probably benefit from supplementation of 400 mg/day of chelated Mag citrate.

Your Folate is over the top, so I would stop supplementation for a while. But keep an eye on it (every 6 months) and don't let it slip too low.

It is very interesting that your TPO level is negative.... has it always been negative? I wonder if the remission might be a result of your good gluten-free, lactose free diet.

I'm confused and feel rubbish, all my back and neck muscles ache, feel shattered all the time, I have headaches every day, muzzy headed, brain fog, forget words mid-sentence, feel depressed (my GP tried to say that I'm depressed and offered me antidepressants which I declined...), anxietysometimes, bad sleep, very bad cold and heat tolerance, dizziness, hoarse voice,difficulties getting up in the morning, bloating, dry skin, puffy face, loss ofouter eyebrows, oedema, difficulties concentrating, feeling spaced out. I gavea list to my GP with all this, but he just focussed on the depression-likesymptoms, and wanted to flog me antidepressants.

The one thing I would definitely NOT do is take antidepressants. By the sounds of it you are still severely hypothyroid as well as having adrenal fatigue (so keep up the adrenal supplements). This could have all sorts of reasons, but low iron is very likely the main culprit. If it were me, I would boost both, iron and levo - first to 75mcg and 3-4 weeks later to 100 mcg. If your hypothyroid symptoms thereafter still are not improving, I would switch to natural thyroid; you still get Armour, Naturethroid and the generic Thyroid S and Thiroyd without prescription. In my personal view there is nothing better and more effective than natural thyroid.

But if you would rather try the synthetic route and add T3 to your T4 then remember that the effects of T3 are about 4-5 times that of T4 – so you would have to find the right balance by juggling T4 and T3 amounts - and that is not easy.

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you very much for writing back to me, really appreciate it!

They didn't do my ferritin at the time (as far as I know...) so I don't know

what my levels were then. Can you advise whet to take and what dose to increase

my iron levels? I think it will be difficult to get my GP to test me again for

ferritin since he thinks my levels are 'normal'... Is there any other options

to test my ferritin levels?

I gave that info to my GP re: ferritin and the other minerals and vitamins, that

you sent me last time, how and why they are important for T4 conversion, but I

doubt he even read it...

How long do I take the iron for before I increase the T4 to 75mcg?

I got some reaction from the Lufenuron, about 2 weeks after I took it, I had bad

headaches and raised temperature (up to 37.5) for 3 days, and felt unwell. Then

it was gone. On the first day when I took the Lufenuron I had diarrhoea (not

from the Lufenuron) so I was going to repeat the protocol. Otherwise I didn't

have a severe reaction but I don't think I noticed any major change in my (i.e.

improvement)... When I took Nystatin before (for 5-6 weeks, combined with a low

GI, no carb diet (only veg), I felt so so so much better, and all was good until

I had a Kidney infection in Aug and had to take stron antibiotics. That totally

messed me up and I haven't felt right since!)

Yes, I do have a lot of stress, and yes, low adrenal function (according to the

Genova tests in Oct 2010, don't know if I should repeat them or just carry on

taking the supplements Dr P gave me), I try to relax but it's hard... Work is so

hectic and there's gotta be more to life than just work and eat and sleep?

I might have low immune system but eating healthy and taking Vit C prevents me

getting colds, so it's 'just' all the hypothyroidism related pains and aches and

issues that make my life miserable...

Thanks, but can I ask why would you supplement Mg? I thought that WAS actually

OK? What does Mg help with? Thank you!

OK, I will stop folate and will reintroduce when we are planning a baby

(hopefully soon, once I am stronger...)

My TPO is 1iu and the reference range is <50, so it's not negative? Did I put

it down incorrectly before?? Sorry!

I have been gluten and lactose free for over a decade, so it's not new for my

body...

I thought from your previous message (re: candida etc) that you thought T3 would

be better for me than natural thyroid. I'm happy to try either, just want to

get better!!

How do I know how much to take of either??

Thank you so much,

Anita

> are not improving, I would switch to natural thyroid; you still get

> Armour, Naturethroid and the generic Thyroid S and Thiroyd without

> prescription. In my personal view there is nothing better and more

> effective than natural thyroid.

>

> But if you would rather try the synthetic route and add T3 to your T4

> then remember that the effects of T3 are about 4-5 times that of T4

> – so you would have to find the right balance by juggling T4 and T3

> amounts - and that is not easy.

>

> With best wishes,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would write to your GP (not ask him face to face) and ask him

if he read the through the specific nutrients you wanted testing and the

references to show that low levels needed supplementing as they affect thyroid

function. Ask him to confirm that he placed your letter into your medical

notes, and ask what treatment he recommends for low levels of iron/ferritin.

Ask that he confirms these in writing. We cannot just leave our doctors alone

when they are not doing as we ask - they should be working with us, and as long

as we allow them to get away with this, they will continue to do nothing.

Do it Anita, you will be pleased that you did.

If he refuses to help you, then this man should be reported

to your local Primary Care Trust.

Luv - Sheila

They didn't do my ferritin at the time (as far as I know...) so I don't know

what my levels were then. Can you advise whet to take and what dose to increase

my iron levels? I think it will be difficult to get my GP to test me again for

ferritin since he thinks my levels are 'normal'... Is there any other options

to test my ferritin levels?

I gave that info to my GP re: ferritin and the other minerals and vitamins,

that you sent me last time, how and why they are important for T4 conversion,

but I doubt he even read it...

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sheila, I will do it! I will write to him.

I was thinking earlier that I am going to have to do something because if I

start supplement the iron (and I already ordered some ferrous sulfate) then he

will need to re-test me and if he doesn't see that there is a problem, he will

refuse to re-test me...

I just ordered Nystatin from that online pharmacy that was recommended, and I

will take 2,500,000 iu / day for 6 weeks, with wild oregano extract, caprylic

acid, and probiotics, and zero sugar or carbs (apart from veg and quinoa), like

you guys advised here last year, and it was wonderful, I felt perfect until I

had that kidney infection in Aug and had to take antibiotics.

I will take the ferrous sulfate and carry on with the B12 and other supplements

(apart from the folate since it was too high) and see how I feel, and then

increase the T4 and if it is not OK and I have hyper symptoms, I will go down

the natural desiccated thyroid or T3 plus T4 route, just not sure how much I

need to take (I'm on 50mcg of T4 at the moment, plus 5 Nutri Thyroid / day).

Can you please advise Sheila if you think this is the right course of action in

your abundant experience?

Thank you so much for all your help!

Anita x

>

> I would write to your GP (not ask him face to face) and ask him if he read

> the through the specific nutrients you wanted testing and the references to

> show that low levels needed supplementing as they affect thyroid function.

> Ask him to confirm that he placed your letter into your medical notes, and

> ask what treatment he recommends for low levels of iron/ferritin. Ask that

> he confirms these in writing. We cannot just leave our doctors alone when

> they are not doing as we ask - they should be working with us, and as long

> as we allow them to get away with this, they will continue to do nothing.

>

> Do it Anita, you will be pleased that you did.

>

> If he refuses to help you, then this man should be reported to your local

> Primary Care Trust.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Hello again,

They didn't do my ferritin at the time (as far as I know...) so I don't knowwhat my levels were then. Can you advise what to take and what dose to increase my iron levels?

I never had to take iron, so I'm no expert, but others have said that something like Spatone or Ferrus Sulphate be the right thing to take.- just look in our files, I am sure something will be recommended there.

I think it will be difficult to get my GP to test me again for ferritin since he thinks my levels are 'normal'... Is there any other options to test my ferritin levels?Again, I don't know. There might be private tests but you really should not have to do that. The secret to getting what you want from your GP is to be like a dog with a bone. I recently spent 20 minutes in the surgery, asking for a full iron status. Even though the GP told me that this was totally unnecessary and he hinted more than once that there were other patients waiting, my bum remained firmly planted in the seat; we were going round and round in circles, with me explaining over and over again why I wanted the iron status and would he please humour me, because I was worried about my fast heart beat, this, that and the rest (my iron was on the high side as it turned out, but that's beside the point). After 20 mins he gave in and handed me the form... Short of manhandling us out of the room there is little a GP can do when you refuse to leave the surgery without what you came in for, although you do have to argue your case (hence the references I posted on the subject of low ferritin). If all else fails, a letter to the practice manager, explaining that your GP refuses to do reasonable tests usually gets results; not necessarily because they see the errors of their ways, but because giving in is less hassle for them.

I often think back to a mail of one of our members, who actually took the dramatic option of bursting into tears and physically getting onto her knees to beg her GP for some test.... and she got it. I have forgotten who it was and what the test was about, but I will never forget what she did in order to achieve what she wanted. I bet that GP never forgot her either!

I am not suggesting you or anybody should do what this member did, just to be a bit more assertive and not to take a GPs refusal to do something as written in stone.

I gave that info to my GP re: ferritin and the other minerals and vitamins, that you sent me last time, how and why they are important for T4 conversion, but I doubt he even read it...

Sadly I don't think it is enough to just hand over the information – it will never get read... but when a well informed patient is arguing his or her case either in person or by letter and backs it up with legitimate references from medical books or journals, then a doctor will have a hard time to keep on refusing a reasonable demand. The times when a doctor decreed and the patient obeyed without question are long gone. How long do I take the iron for before I increase the T4 to 75mcg?

Others are probably better equipped to answer that, but I would do it simultaneously – up the T4 and keep taking the iron.I got some reaction from the Lufenuron, about 2 weeks after I took it, I had bad headaches and raised temperature (up to 37.5) for 3 days, and felt unwell. Then it was gone. On the first day when I took the Lufenuron I had diarrhoea (not from the Lufenuron) so I was going to repeat the protocol. Otherwise I didn't have a severe reaction but I don't think I noticed any major change in my (i.e. improvement)... When I took Nystatin before (for 5-6 weeks, combined with a low GI, no carb diet (only veg), I felt so so so much better, and all was good until I had a Kidney infection in Aug and had to take strong antibiotics. That totallymessed me up and I haven't felt right since!)Many thanks for that feed-back. I wonder if your raised temp was due to the Lufenuron or due to some incidental infection. The thing with severe mucosal Candida albicans infection is that you can't ever kill it off totally. Candida albicans is part and parcel of our intestinal make-up. It will (and should) always be in the large intestines.... although not in the small intestines, stomach or mouth. The trick is to keep it in perfect balance with the good bacteria and preferably down in the large intestines... and when you are prone to yeast overgrowth infections the only way that I know to keep it cooped up down there is to abstain from eating sugar. The moment you fall back into bad habits – or have to take antibiotics – the yeast overgrowth will start all over again L

....but can I ask why would you supplement Mg? I thought that WAS actually OK? What does Mg help with? Thank you!Your Mg with 0.82 is just 1 point up from the lowest range (0.7-1)... so 0.9 or 1.0 would be a better result... Magnesium is vital for maintaining nerve and muscle function and for keeping a normal heart rhythm. It also is a powerful tool against migraine headaches.

http://www.healthy-vitamin-choice.com/magnesium.html

OK, I will stop folate and will reintroduce when we are planning a baby(hopefully soon, once I am stronger...)I'm no expert, but I would strongly recommend to first and foremost sort yourself out and only to try for a baby once your own hormone household is stable. Pregnancy puts an enormous stress on your hormones and you might put yourself and your baby at risk by getting pregnant before all your hormones are stable and settled.

My TPO is 1iu and the reference range is <50, so it's not negative? Did I put it down incorrectly before?? Sorry!No, no, you put it down correctly. Your TPO result is currently negative – less than 50.... only a result above 50 iu would be positive – yours was 1 iu. – However, this does not automatically mean that you don't have autoantibodies. It is possible that your healthy eating habits might have put any auto-antibodies into remission.

I thought from your previous message (re: candida etc) that you thought T3 would be better for me than natural thyroid. I'm happy to try either, just want to get better!!Did I give that impression? I am sorry if I did. I have always been a strong advocate for natural thyroid. In my personal view it is the optimal thyroid replacement therapy. But this is not to say that I am against T3 or even Levothyroxine. They all have their place. We are all individuals and what works well for one might be wrong for somebody else. I like natural thyroid because it is the closest we have to replace our own natural thyroid function - if only we had a normal thyroid function.

T4 (Levo) works for many, but usually the dosages that our doctors prescribe are much too low, because doctors are slaves to the TSH, which is totally unsuitable as a guide to thyroid replacement therapy – only they do not believe that.

T3-only therapy, in my personal view, is a last resort. It usually works well, but it requires the patient to forever anticipate the correct dosing and timing around the clock.

The combination of T4 and T3 is – in my view – the hardest to get right, although many patients manage to do it. Rule of thumb, I think, is 80% T4 in the mornings and 20% T3 divided during the day.... but first of all you need to find out what your optimal total daily dose would be... then you can calculate the 80% and 20%. To make matters worse, you can't rely on the correctness of an 80/20 split because we are all different and have different requirements. So you have to experiment what is right for you personally. This is why I said it is the hardest to work out.

How do I know how much to take of either??

When it comes to a T4/T3 combination, it's down to trial and error – you would have to very gently experiment by adding T3 in. You currently take so little T4 that it would not be worth your while to reduce the T4 in order to introduce T3.... so you would have to experiment with tiny dosages of T3, I guess ..... or drop the T4 altogether and try a T3-only therapy. But others will be far more experienced to advise you on that.

If you were to try a natural thyroid, then it is easy – stop the Levo one morning and start taking ½ grain of your chosen natural thyroid instead. Do this for about a week, and if all is well, introduce another ½ grain in the afternoon. Thereafter go up by another ½ grain every 4 weeks until you feel slight hyperthyroid symptoms, then drop back to your previous dose and you have arrived....

The decision of what to do, however, has to be yours alone. There is no right or wrong.... as I said, we are all different.

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

That sounds like a good road to follow Anita. You seem to have

now acquired the determination to do this, and because of that you should

succeed. Good luck and keep us informed as to your progress.

Luv - Sheila

..

I just ordered Nystatin from that online pharmacy that was recommended, and I

will take 2,500,000 iu / day for 6 weeks, with wild oregano extract, caprylic

acid, and probiotics, and zero sugar or carbs (apart from veg and quinoa), like

you guys advised here last year, and it was wonderful, I felt perfect until I

had that kidney infection in Aug and had to take antibiotics.

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita,

I imagine that your T3 is low purely because you are not taking enough T4, so your doctor has done the correct thing at this stage. I would not worry about RT3 since your FT4 is low also.

Val

Please can anyone advise what to do next?

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

I tried taking 75mcg and 100mcg last year but it only gave me hyper symptoms and

my FT3 stayed low (I still had hypo symptoms too) so I that didn't do the

trick...

Anita

>

> Hi Anita,

>

> I imagine that your T3 is low purely because you are not taking enough T4, so

your doctor has done the correct thing at this stage. I would not worry about

RT3 since your FT4 is low also.

>

> Val

>

> Please can anyone advise what to do next?

>

[Guest guest]

Probably because you are suffering from one of the other

associated conditions. Did you read the document I attached about conditions

that stop thyroid hormone from working. It doesn't matter how much thyroid

hormone you take, if you have any of them, you must get them treated. In fact,

it is essential to get treated.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Val,

I tried taking 75mcg and 100mcg last year but it only gave me hyper symptoms

and my FT3 stayed low (I still had hypo symptoms too) so I that didn't do the

trick...

Anita