Re: Online Clinic Confusion

[Guest guest]

Hi . I so agree. Sheila asked this question but they merged it with many

others and it got lost. They will be opening again this afternoon. Maybe this

can be put to them again but it seems that they are answering questions now,

whilst the public are kept out, so what are our chances?

Love

Jacquie

>

> Hello....

[Guest guest]

I have posted a response to Professor Lazarus this afternoon and

managed to repeat the information I had put in that message previously. When we

they get it?????. They do not want to know and will not accept the facts

because if they do, it will become known that they themselves are denying over

250,000 in the UK alone a correct diagnosis and the correct thyroid hormone

they should be taking. When I wrote on the forum and web site " The NHS is

Killing Us! " little did I know just how true this really is.

Luv - Sheila

Hi . I so agree. Sheila asked this question but they merged it with many

others and it got lost. They will be opening again this afternoon. Maybe this

can be put to them again but it seems that they are answering questions now,

whilst the public are kept out, so what are our chances?

Love

Jacquie

>

> Hello....

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4775 - Release Date: 01/29/12

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

Does TPA have any funding?

[Guest guest]

Yes, we do, but it depends how much you are thinking of. I think

I might know what is going through your mind (I'm actually psychic!) - but

I might be wrong. Can you write to me in more detail to [sheila@...] or

telephone me on 01535 636 014. If I am right, I would not want to discuss this

on the forum at the present time.

Luv - Sheila

Sheila,

Does

TPA have any funding?

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4776 - Release Date: 01/30/12

[Guest guest]

dear Jacquie,

I would say about those of a wax cat has of catching an asbestos rat running

through hell.....

Consider the following:

1. I have written twenty or so complaints to US agencies, Federal and West

Virginia with no luck.

2. I helped Sheila write complaints to UK agencies with no luck.

3. Sheila has written to the BTA several times with no luck.

4. Sheila and I wrote responses to the RCP, with no luck.

5. I wrote to Her Majesty with no luck.

We need to find a different decision maker. About the only ones left are the

courts, either as a civil matter or potentially as a criminal matter.

The issues are these:

1. There is little effort to be clear, per RCP authorship guidelines, AACE

authorship guidelines, Institute of Medicine authorship guidelines, or per

centuries old linguistic theories.

2. Medical evidence ignores all post thyroid science. A meta-analysis ignored

98% of the available science simply because it was not derived from randomized

clinical trials (RCTs).

3. Endocrinology ignores the differential diagnostic protocol.

4. Consequently, endocrinology offers bogus excuses for their failures.

5. The juxtaposition of the meta-analysis " context " with the " conclusion " says

it all.... The context is that of patients with continuing symptoms. The

conclusion is that T4 should remain the treatment to be used. In other words,

the poor folks who are suffering should continue to suffer.....

6. And ethics? What ethics? Patients aren't first and foremost. Physicians

do not keep up with medical science in this niche. And Physicians are not

honest about matters in this niche. That is at least the those who refuse to

diagnose and treat those who have continuing symptoms with normal thyroid tests

with or without treatment.

I believe that we, the victims of this systematic abuse, should ban together and

do onto them, what they have done to us, albeit legally.

>

> Hi . I so agree. Sheila asked this question but they merged it with many

others and it got lost. They will be opening again this afternoon. Maybe this

can be put to them again but it seems that they are answering questions now,

whilst the public are kept out, so what are our chances?

>

> Love

> Jacquie

>

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Here here! It's not too late .

Luv - Sheila

From: thyroid treatment

[mailto:thyroid treatment ] On Behalf Of Lllian

Swallow

Sent: 30 January 2012 20:42

thyroid treatment

Subject: RE: Re: Online Clinic Confusion

, why didn't you write to your president, he has

more power than our Queen.

Lilian

5. I wrote to Her Majesty with no luck.

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4776 - Release Date: 01/30/12

[Guest guest]

Dear (and any other legally minded member)

I had a run of bad luck with my computer and then with my endo decreasing my T3,

so am still poorly and trying to get my T3 to a functional level so that I can

pursue trying to find a solicitor who will take on my case.

Sheila has emailed Dr Thierry Hertoghe with all my labs etc and he believes I

should be on NDT and not T3, as I seem to be resistant to both T4 and T3. My

endocrinologist wants to wean me off my T3 until my TSH is within range as it is

suppressed (this to me is malpractice, surely?). Even on 150mcg T3 my fT3 is

low within the range. He has also suggested how to get my high cortisol

metabolites down.

On Talkhealth, Prof C Dayan responded that I probably have an absorption

problem! (I can't believe he said 'probably')

I still haven't contacted my endo with this yet as I haven't been well but I

will have to ask him to change my T4 to Erfa. Now, I know he has never

prescribed NDT before and am not sure if he will be willing to as it is

unlicensed here.

I am also in the throes of making a formal complaint against my first

endocrinologist for misinterpreting my labs and leaving me on T4 when I am

resistant almost killing me, and a psychiatrist diagnosing me as a

Hypochondriasis, when he was colluding with my GPs and first endo. This is all

evident in correspondence.

I have a problem in that when I speak to these solicitors, they all say that I

don't have 'Causation' and that the case is too complicated. I would only get

Legal Aid if there was sufficient 'Causation'. Now, I always get unstuck when

they ask what Causation do I have? If my endo doesn't prescribe NDT, where does

the Causation lie, against him or the BTA/RCP? And what about my GPs who left me

undiagnosed and bedridden for many years despite classic thyroid disease

symptoms?

If you, or anyone else, who is legally minded and would be interested and have

the time to go through the messy and personal details of my whole case and life

to find 'Causation', then I will send all correspondence labs and covert

recordings as I honestly want to take this to Court. Causation seems to be the

major thing holding me back.

Another, is that my GPs tell me that they are biding by the RCP Guidelines in

not prescribing thyroid medication until one's TSH is OVER 10! There are posts

by the Experts on the Online Clinic who do not agree. Will those posts be

helpful if I copied and pasted them for future reference?

It is difficult dealing with solicitors and sometimes I don't get to speak to

the solicitor or send any correspondence before my case is rejected, so any help

would be appreciated as this could help us all if we can only get it to Court.

Love

Jacquie

>

> dear Jacquie,

>

> I would say about those of a wax cat has of catching an asbestos rat running

through hell.....

>

> Consider the following:

>

> 1. I have written twenty or so complaints to US agencies, Federal and West

Virginia with no luck.

> 2. I helped Sheila write complaints to UK agencies with no luck.

> 3. Sheila has written to the BTA several times with no luck.

> 4. Sheila and I wrote responses to the RCP, with no luck.

> 5. I wrote to Her Majesty with no luck.

>

> We need to find a different decision maker. About the only ones left are the

courts, either as a civil matter or potentially as a criminal matter.

>

> The issues are these:

>

> 1. There is little effort to be clear, per RCP authorship guidelines, AACE

authorship guidelines, Institute of Medicine authorship guidelines, or per

centuries old linguistic theories.

> 2. Medical evidence ignores all post thyroid science. A meta-analysis

ignored 98% of the available science simply because it was not derived from

randomized clinical trials (RCTs).

> 3. Endocrinology ignores the differential diagnostic protocol.

> 4. Consequently, endocrinology offers bogus excuses for their failures.

> 5. The juxtaposition of the meta-analysis " context " with the " conclusion "

says it all.... The context is that of patients with continuing symptoms. The

conclusion is that T4 should remain the treatment to be used. In other words,

the poor folks who are suffering should continue to suffer.....

> 6. And ethics? What ethics? Patients aren't first and foremost. Physicians

do not keep up with medical science in this niche. And Physicians are not

honest about matters in this niche. That is at least the those who refuse to

diagnose and treat those who have continuing symptoms with normal thyroid tests

with or without treatment.

>

> I believe that we, the victims of this systematic abuse, should ban together

and do onto them, what they have done to us, albeit legally.

>

[Would moderators mind me leaving 's post intact? Thank you!]

[Guest guest]

I have been thinking having watched Branson on TV talking about drug addiction and how the government should be dealing with it, that what have we got to lose by getting a letter and petition together explaining what really is happening and if he knows anyone who would be willing to support/fund our class action suit if he himself didn't - or would organise a charity function to support our cause?

loveJacquie

[Guest guest]

Dear Jacquie,

It is all that I can do to make a case in the US from the overall stand of the

systematic abuse of 1.7 million Americans, mostly women. I have been at this

issue now for about 8 years and have been trying to find legal representation

for about four and still have not.

One does have to ask for your motive. Do you wish to punish the physician or

get well. For a lot less money you could visit with Dr. Skinner or Peatfield

privately.

When we look at this issue from the bottom up, there is the practicing

physician, the medical associations, and any corrupting entity (which has not

been identified in the UK). And more than in the US, there is the government

providing healthcare.

Instead of just suing your physician, I would sue the NHS, the BTA, and the RCP

as well because otherwise it will be just them pointing to whomever is not in

the case.

The most important concept in such a case is the patient counterexample. TPA

has a registry of such folks and a component of the application form is the

willingness to testify. There are probably several hundred in the UK willing to

testify. So in your neck of the woods, so to speak, there are probably enough

willing folks.

Why are patient counterexamples important? They demonstrate that the dictates

and rationales of the various defendants are not reliable and are at least

partially false. Sir Karl Popper, renown for his philosophy of science, claims

that confirming studies are not as important as the lack of counterexamples.

Counterexamples trump confirming studies. The defendants will point to the

numerous confirming studies that " prove " that T3 is no good. This is disputed

by patient counterexamples. Further, it can be shown that these studies are

overwhelmingly of the special case of no post thyroid deficiencies, i.e., no

deficiency in any physiology that exists functionally after the thyroid gland.

Consider this: The moment that your TSH became normal, according to the BTA,

RCP, and others, you effectively no longer had hypothyroidism, in the proper

narrow sense and definition, which the RCP uses and the BTA effectively uses.

At that point your continuing symptoms should be diagnosed again. The proper

exercise of differential diagnostics DEMANDS that all physiology that might

cause the symptoms be tested. This INCLUDES the post thyroid functions of

peripheral metabolism and peripheral cellular hormone reception. Failing to

address these issues is a failure to meet the standard of care for diagnosing an

illness. The problem here is that there is no test for peripheral cellular

hormone reception. To do so the test would have to determine the inner works of

cells.

However, there are a number of tests that can be done. As illustrated in some

books and certainly on the TPA site, there are tests for the supporting

chemistry needed by the post thyroid functions. And recently, I found the major

causes of fatigue, all of which have rather standard tests. I also got a book

on differential diagnostics from Amazon that organizes medicine by symptom

instead of by disease, although it is not complete. I am hoping that I can find

more tests to eliminate other causes. These tests should show that more likely

than not, you need some form of T3. Still other tests are related to

metabolism, such as temperature and metabolism rate. However, those are

dismissed by endocrinology.

However, before you can sue on these grounds, you have to be refused.

In tort law, you need to show cause. The cause in this case is similar to the

poor cancer victims who was never diagnosed properly. And remember, the moment

that you had normal TSH, you effectively were euthyroid and there should be no

suspicion of hypothyroidism then. So your continuing symptoms becomes a new

diagnostic issue. That is your cause, which is further amplified by the above

lack of examination of post thyroid functions.

Also, from a general standpoint, the counterexamples do refute general

statements that endocrinology makes. You may even do better if you can find a

counterexample whose medical history parallels yours.

The next problem is the presentation of proof. In spite of potential hearsay

exceptions, you will probably need expert witnesses, who have to be paid. And

now we are back to the original question. What is your motive? To get well or

get justice for yourself, or get justice for all those similarly abused? If

your motive is the first two, then the expert is going to have to run tests on

you to testify. He may even simply treat you so that you too become a patient

counterexample. And then you are nearly or really well and quite done. On the

other hand, if you wish to be the test case, there is a lot of effort needed.

I have been working on a US case for years. My case description now runs about

200 pages and will grow more with this testing concept for qualifying

patient-plaintiffs. I have yet to find any firm willing to take on this case on

a contingency basis. I have yet to find any firm willing to plan a course of

action and estimate its cost so that funds can be raised.

At this moment, however, I am considering US criminal law. Fundamentally, the

BTA and the RCP with full knowledge that they can influence the GMC are

extorting physicians to not prescribe T3 even though it is acceptable to do so

according to the UK government. Presumably there are laws against extortion in

the UK too.

There are also laws against interference in contracts. While becoming a patient

of a private doctor forms a contract, it is not clear that being an NHS patient

forms a contract.

On the other hand, NHS doctors create a vicarious responsibility for the NHS.

However, I don't know what immunity the NHS has. I estimate that if this

problem were truly resolved, the NHS would be liable for billions and billions.

But since that would be spread among hundreds of thousands, I suspect a real

effort to properly diagnose and treat post thyroid dysfunctions might be

satisfactory.

So this task is not small or trivial. It is hardly for the faint at heart. I

asked my mother-in-law about her condition when she was suffering severely from

euthyroid hypometabolism (a mimic of hypothyroidism which requires T3) how she

felt. She had no hope. She preferred to die than to continue suffering.

Fainting and breaking her leg fortunately put her before a physician who

recognized her severe myxedema by sight. In less than two weeks she was on the

road to recovery and being as active as the Energizer Bunny. The stresses of

legal action were out of the question.

I am quite positive that something should be done and can be done. But what we

are talking about is the ruination of the careers of a lot of respected

physicians and medical organizations, who have extortive power via the GMC. It

is not going to be easy. But, then there are so many people, hundreds of

thousands, suffering because endocrinology promotes this depravity with

bastardized science and abused protocols.

We need to hang together, with family help, otherwise we will suffer alone.

Have a better day,

>

> Dear (and any other legally minded member)

>

> I had a run of bad luck with my computer and then with my endo decreasing my

T3, so am still poorly and trying to get my T3 to a functional level so that I

can pursue trying to find a solicitor who will take on my case.

>

>