Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:34:03 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >I've heard that you should stop taking iron supplements 5 days before you do the >iron tests (serum, % sat, ferritin, TIBC). I can't understand why. Anybody >else heard of this? If you don't stop iron for at least 5 days you end up with a result skewed by the supplement you were taking and think it's better than it is Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 That makes sense. But, what if you want to know how well the supplement is working, so you can figure out if you need to adjust your dose. Wouldn't you want to test while you are taking your current level of supplement? After all, you wouldn't be taking a supplement if your iron was at normal levels to begin with. And, if it goes up to normal levels while you are on the supplement, it is certainly going to go back down when you stop them. So, it seems to me that if you stop taking the supplement, all you are going to learn is that you need the supplement. If you stayed on the supplement, you would learn two things that you wouldn't learn if you stopped:1 - if your numbers are high, that you should lower your supplement2 - if your numbers are low, you need to supplement more.What's wrong with this logic? Marge If you don't stop iron for at least 5 days you end up with a result skewed by the supplement you were taking and think it's better than it is Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hi Marge Supplements of minerals and vitamins are needed when our levels fall very low to build them up. Once they have been built up to a good level, you ensure that you eat foods that are rich in iron to keep your level up where it should be. After 2 to 3 months of being on a specific supplement you should get your blood tested to see if it is working. Normally, you can tell by your state of health whether it is working or not, because most people start to feel so much better. Because one nutrient is low and needs to be boosted doesn't mean that if you stop, it is always going to go low again. It depends what caused your low levels in the first place. Luv - Sheila So, it seems to me that if you stop taking the supplement, all you are going to learn is that you need the supplement. If you stayed on the supplement, you would learn two things that you wouldn't learn if you stopped: 1 - if your numbers are high, that you should lower your supplement 2 - if your numbers are low, you need to supplement more. What's wrong with this logic? Marge If you don't stop iron for at least 5 days you end up with a result skewed by the supplement you were taking and think it's better than it is Nick No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4772 - Release Date: 01/28/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:32:07 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >So, it seems to me that if you stop taking the supplement, all you are going to >learn is that you need the supplement. If you stayed on the supplement, you >would learn two things that you wouldn't learn if you stopped: > >1 - if your numbers are high, that you should lower your supplement >2 - if your numbers are low, you need to supplement more. > >What's wrong with this logic? Iron levels move VERY slowly, it can take months to build levels up so if you stop for a week you are not going to lose much of what you have built up Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 So, you're saying that stopping iron won't have much of an impact on your iron levels. If your iron levels won't change much if you stop taking iron for 5 days before testing, what's the point of stopping? Aren't you just going to confuse the issue?I'm sorry, but this answer says to me that stopping iron for 5 days before testing doesn't make sense. Marge Iron levels move VERY slowly, it can take months to build levels up so if you stop for a week you are not going to lose much of what you have built up Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:07:41 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >So, you're saying that stopping iron won't have much of an impact on your iron >levels. If your iron levels won't change much if you stop taking iron for 5 >days before testing, what's the point of stopping? Aren't you just going to >confuse the issue? > >I'm sorry, but this answer says to me that stopping iron for 5 days before >testing doesn't make sense. I am saying that stopping taking iron 5 days before will not have a significant effect on the amount of useable and stored iron you have It can have a large effect on the amount of iron that is measured on the lab tests though and labs while still supplementing, especially if you are taking a lot of iron, can be skewed in the direction of making you think all is OK If you are supplementing at a low rate it makes much less difference If the labs read low while supplementing then you are definately low I am taking 200mg of iron a day in split doses with Vit C and my levels are coming up very slowly. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Sheila - I can understand this for something like the adrenal system where you can heal on supplements and then you wean off the supplement. But, I don't understand it with iron, especially because you take four tests. Couldn't stopping iron have a different affect on each test? Plus, why five days? Why not 12 hours or two weeks? This is really bugging me. If nobody can explain this to me, I'm going to learn as much as I can about iron and disorders of iron metabolism and see if I can figure this out for myself. Marge ________________________________ From: Sheila <sheila@...> thyroid treatment Sent: Sat, January 28, 2012 11:02:05 AM Subject: RE: Testing iron Hi Marge Supplements of minerals and vitamins are needed when our levels fall very low to build them up. Once they have been built up to a good level, you ensure that you eat foods that are rich in iron to keep your level up where it should be. After 2 to 3 months of being on a specific supplement you should get your blood tested _______________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Nick - Thanks for going deeper on your explanation. I think I need a lot of pieces of the puzzle to understand this. Let me see if I understand your explanation in relationship to the common iron tests. Four tests are recommended - ferritin, serum iron, TIBC and % saturation (a calculation, thus not a direct blood test) So, stopping iron will not have a significant effect on ferritin, because that is stored (storage) iron. It will, also, not have a significant effect on what you call useable iron - I assume you mean serum iron? But, it will have a large effect on the lab tests for ferritin and serum iron? What about TIBC, an indirect measure of transferrin. I can easily see why you would want to stop iron for at least 12 hours prior to testing because you are looking for a " normal " level not spiked by recent doses. If I took the tests 12 hours fasting and and the results looked okay, I would keep supplementing at the same levels. Is there a problem with this? Is the answer different if you're supplementing at high or low rates? Marge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 14:35:41 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >Nick - Thanks for going deeper on your explanation. I think I need a lot of >pieces of the puzzle to understand this. I'll try my best, working from experience of others who have seen a lot of iron labs over the years, 5 days is what is found to work empirically. > >Let me see if I understand your explanation in relationship to the common iron >tests. Four tests are recommended - ferritin, serum iron, TIBC and % >saturation (a calculation, thus not a direct blood test) > >So, stopping iron will not have a significant effect on ferritin, because that >is stored (storage) iron. It will, also, not have a significant effect on what >you call useable iron - I assume you mean serum iron? I think you'll find that there is a significant skew to both of those based on what I've heard. People test after a day without iron and decide they are OK, drop the iron down and find they are low soon after. > But, it will have a large >effect on the lab tests for ferritin and serum iron? What about TIBC, an >indirect measure of transferrin. > The binding capacities tell you how much iron your body can take without overloading it, If the binding capacity is low, near the bottom of the range, then you can't safely take much iron >I can easily see why you would want to stop iron for at least 12 hours prior to >testing because you are looking for a " normal " level not spiked by recent doses. > > >If I took the tests 12 hours fasting and and the results looked okay, I would >keep supplementing at the same levels. Is there a problem with this? Is the >answer different if you're supplementing at high or low rates? The answer is different on maintenance doses and " build up doses " If you are just taking 20mg a day then labs on that are reasonable. If, like me, you are taking 200mg a day to try and build up from a severe lack or iron then a 5 day withdrawal is a minimum to get accurate results. Iron is a vicious circle with hypo people, if you are hypo it's hard to hang onto iron, without iron you can't utilise thyroid hormone and can often get nasty intolerance results when you take it. If your GP is funding the testing you could gather some data for us all, have labs while still on iron and then stop iron and have another set of labs 5 days later, post the differences for us all to see, I for one would be interested. I may even try and get my GP to run them on me for me since he now knows I've been self treating and is supporting me in it. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yippee, I think you clarified my point of confusion. I've been on a maintenance dose of 65mg elemental for four years and my iron levels are okay. If I stopped for 5 days, chances are good that all I would learn is that I need to supplement. But for you on 200mg, when you stop for 5 days, you would be getting a new baseline. Once you get to where you want to go, you would then lower your dose to maintenance? And, you would test while supplementing to tweak your dosage? Marge The answer is different on maintenance doses and "build up doses" If you are just taking 20mg a day then labs on that are reasonable. If, like me, you are taking 200mg a day to try and build up from a severe lack or iron then a 5 day withdrawal is a minimum to get accurate results. If your GP is funding the testing you could gather some data for us all, have labs while still on iron and then stop iron and have another set of labs 5 days later, post the differences for us all to see, I for one would be interested. I may even try and get my GP to run them on me for me since he now knows I've been self treating and is supporting me in it. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hi Marge I was talking about any minerals/vitamin supplements. It is advised that before having any blood taken to test your iron levels that you fast for at least 12 hours before the test is done. Check out http://www.americanhs.org/faq.htm. There's some interesting information here. " A simple series of blood tests which can be performed by any doctor or lab can indicate iron levels. They must be proper iron measures: Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC) together with Serum Iron. Divide TIBC into Serum Iron to get the percentage of transferrin saturation. It is important that the serum ferritin is also performed at the same time and it should be done, if possible, while fasting. Refrain from iron pills for a week prior to the tests. Hope this helps, but read the information in that web site. Luv - sheila Sheila - I can understand this for something like the adrenal system where you can heal on supplements and then you wean off the supplement. But, I don't understand it with iron, especially because you take four tests. Couldn't stopping iron have a different affect on each test? Plus, why five days? Why not 12 hours or two weeks? This is really bugging me. If nobody can explain this to me, I'm going to learn as much as I can about iron and disorders of iron metabolism and see if I can figure this out for myself. Marge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sheila - many thanks for telling me about this web site. In addition to surfing the site, I found where you got the quote. AHS recommends HealthCheck for testing. In the description of their Ferritin test HealthCheck says, "For a complete picture of iron overload, other tests - such as total iron binding capacity (TIBC) and hereditary hemochromatosis DNA screening - may be required. Prepare to fast 12 hours before taking this test to ensure the most accurate data."I called HealthCheck (I'm in the US) and they do not require more than 12 hours fasting for iron supplements before iron testing.Here's what I now think. If you are testing for high iron, maybe it makes sense to stop taking iron pills for however long your body needs to get it out of your system (if you have high iron, why would you be taking iron supplements?). However, if you are taking iron pills, you already know you have low iron, and stopping iron for 5 or 7 days may defeat the object of the testing, which is to determine how the supplement is doing at raising your iron levels. Stopping for 12 hours would eliminate spikes from the supplement. Supplementing, of course, does not answer the question of why you have low iron in the first place. MargeI was talking about any minerals/vitamin supplements. It is advised that before having any blood taken to test your iron levels that you fast for at least 12 hours before the test is done. Check out http://www.americanhs.org/faq.htm. There's some interesting information here. "A simple series of blood tests which can be performed by any doctor or lab can indicate iron levels. They must be proper iron measures: Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC) together with Serum Iron. Divide TIBC into Serum Iron to get the percentage of transferrin saturation. It is important that the serum ferritin is also performed at the same time and it should be done, if possible, while fasting. Refrain from iron pills for a week prior to the tests. Hope this helps, but read the information in that web site. Luv - sheila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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