Guest guest Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 That thyroxine does not work for all patients was first noticed by Drs. Kirk and Kvorning in 1947 That thyroxine does not work for all patients was confirmed by Dr Means in 1954. Failed thyroxine treated patients were studied by Drs. Baisier, Hertoghe, and Eeckhaut and successfully treated with desiccated thyroid in the last two decades of the 20th century and reported 2001 Drs. Gross and Pitt-Rivers found T3 more active than T4 in 1953, but endocrinology holds that T3 is ineffective and T4 is effective, circa 2005. Dr. Goldberg made a case for euthyroid hypometabolism circa 1960 and successfully treated 32 patients. Drs. Refetoff and Bravermand and their respective staffs discovered the post thyroidal physiology that processes T4 to produce 80% of the required T3 and the cellular receptors that receive the T3 for use by nuclei and mitochondria, circa 1970 My mother-in-law was suffering from euthyroid hypometabolism until she fainted, broke her leg in two places and was taken to hospital for a cast. Since she was too weak to lift the cast, she was admitted. The physician there recognized her plight by sight and referred her to an internist. Her look was such a textbook example, that he gathered residents to view her puffy face, etc. A T3 therapy resurrected her life. In 10 days she could lift her cast and was discharged. The internist claimed that she was lucky to have broken her leg because she would have died in a myxedema coma otherwise. She became a patient counterexample. Years latter, another doctor took her off of T3 and put on T4. Her symptoms returned. She gained weight. She was no longer active. So she pointed out the 25 years she was on T3 with good health. She was put back on T3. She became a triple patient counterexample. Now, nearly two decades later and in her 80's she is still active and living on her own. My mother-in-law's experiences fit the medically accepted CDR (challenge, de-challenge, re-challenge) test for causality. T3 works and produces good health - at least in some. My wife realized that she had hypothyroidism about a decade ago, although her doctor did not believe her. But a TSH of 60 or so changed his mind. He prescribed thyroxine. It barely made a change. Although her TSH was normal, she still suffered. Over the next two years, she saw two endocrinologists. The first gave her an insignificant dose of T3 to shut her up. This starter dose for children did nothing. But the second endocrinologist noted that she should have been taking this three times daily. So the two " mistakes " per medical practice guidelines gave her life back to her. She became a patient counterexample. Eventually, she became a triple counterexample as well. In lieu of proper treatment, my wife was told that she had nonspecific symptoms, and alternately, functional somatoform disorders. Both were false as her becoming a counterexample confirmed. There are lots of patient counterexamples. Physicians who value their ethics more than they fear the GMC produce them routinely. Unfortunately, medical science dismisses counterexamples. Every other science recognizes them and acts upon them to better their science. But medicine does not. The attitude of endocrinology towards this issue is stated in a meta-analysis of the anti-T3 studies. The context is patients with continuing symptoms in spite of T4 therapies. The conclusion if this analysis is that the T4-only therapy should be continued, i.e., those patients should continue to suffer chronically. So, the questions are simply these: Why, in the face of incontrovertible evidence, does endocrinology maintain a position that has been a medically recognized failure for more than 60 years? Why does endocrinology maintain this failed position in spite of known physiology? Why does endocrinology maintain and promote suffering in those with post thyroid deficiencies when the way to active, attractive lives have been demonstrated by patient counterexamples? Why are millions suffering in spite of T4 therapy (Saravanan, et al.)? Why did endocrinology make my wife suffer quite unnecessarily and nearly kill my mother-in-law? With regard to this medical niche, why isn't endocrinology ethical? Why isn't patient welfare first and foremost? Why don't endocrinologist keep up with the medical science of this niche? Why aren't endocrinologists honest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou - as the old song goes, once again " Have I told you today how much I love you " ?? And this - THEY REMOVED! That says it all. This needs to go onto our web site for all to see. Can anybody give me a copy of the message that wrote this in response to please so I can tell the full sorry story? Luv - Sheila That thyroxine does not work for all patients was first noticed by Drs. Kirk and Kvorning in 1947 That thyroxine does not work for all patients was confirmed by Dr Means in 1954. Failed thyroxine treated patients were studied by Drs. Baisier, Hertoghe, and Eeckhaut and successfully treated with desiccated thyroid in the last two decades of the 20th century and reported 2001 Drs. Gross and Pitt-Rivers found T3 more active than T4 in 1953, but endocrinology holds that T3 is ineffective and T4 is effective, circa 2005. Dr. Goldberg made a case for euthyroid hypometabolism circa 1960 and successfully treated 32 patients. Drs. Refetoff and Bravermand and their respective staffs discovered the post thyroidal physiology that processes T4 to produce 80% of the required T3 and the cellular receptors that receive the T3 for use by nuclei and mitochondria, circa 1970 My mother-in-law was suffering from euthyroid hypometabolism until she fainted, broke her leg in two places and was taken to hospital for a cast. Since she was too weak to lift the cast, she was admitted. The physician there recognized her plight by sight and referred her to an internist. Her look was such a textbook example, that he gathered residents to view her puffy face, etc. A T3 therapy resurrected her life. In 10 days she could lift her cast and was discharged. The internist claimed that she was lucky to have broken her leg because she would have died in a myxedema coma otherwise. She became a patient counterexample. Years latter, another doctor took her off of T3 and put on T4. Her symptoms returned. She gained weight. She was no longer active. So she pointed out the 25 years she was on T3 with good health. She was put back on T3. She became a triple patient counterexample. Now, nearly two decades later and in her 80's she is still active and living on her own. My mother-in-law's experiences fit the medically accepted CDR (challenge, de-challenge, re-challenge) test for causality. T3 works and produces good health - at least in some. My wife realized that she had hypothyroidism about a decade ago, although her doctor did not believe her. But a TSH of 60 or so changed his mind. He prescribed thyroxine. It barely made a change. Although her TSH was normal, she still suffered. Over the next two years, she saw two endocrinologists. The first gave her an insignificant dose of T3 to shut her up. This starter dose for children did nothing. But the second endocrinologist noted that she should have been taking this three times daily. So the two " mistakes " per medical practice guidelines gave her life back to her. She became a patient counterexample. Eventually, she became a triple counterexample as well. In lieu of proper treatment, my wife was told that she had nonspecific symptoms, and alternately, functional somatoform disorders. Both were false as her becoming a counterexample confirmed. There are lots of patient counterexamples. Physicians who value their ethics more than they fear the GMC produce them routinely. Unfortunately, medical science dismisses counterexamples. Every other science recognizes them and acts upon them to better their science. But medicine does not. The attitude of endocrinology towards this issue is stated in a meta-analysis of the anti-T3 studies. The context is patients with continuing symptoms in spite of T4 therapies. The conclusion if this analysis is that the T4-only therapy should be continued, i.e., those patients should continue to suffer chronically. So, the questions are simply these: Why, in the face of incontrovertible evidence, does endocrinology maintain a position that has been a medically recognized failure for more than 60 years? Why does endocrinology maintain this failed position in spite of known physiology? Why does endocrinology maintain and promote suffering in those with post thyroid deficiencies when the way to active, attractive lives have been demonstrated by patient counterexamples? Why are millions suffering in spite of T4 therapy (Saravanan, et al.)? Why did endocrinology make my wife suffer quite unnecessarily and nearly kill my mother-in-law? With regard to this medical niche, why isn't endocrinology ethical? Why isn't patient welfare first and foremost? Why don't endocrinologist keep up with the medical science of this niche? Why aren't endocrinologists honest? No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database: 2109/4777 - Release Date: 01/30/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Here is the response I sent to Beastall yesterday afternoon, that caused it's removal, and also the removal of Beastall's original statement: I found I had kept a copy after all. [quote name=' " Dr Graham Beastall " '] Urine tests of thyroid hormone status are scientifically invalid and they produce misleading clinical information. They should not be used. There is not a health service in the developed world that advocates urine testing of thyroid hormones and there is not an internationally accepted scientific publication that provides authoritative evidence in favour of their use. " There are several notions in this statement. First, there is the issue of evidence. When Dr Beastall says there is no evidence, that really means that he is saying that there is no evidence that he is willing to accept. The meta-analysis of anti-T3 studies ignored, by its own admission, 98% of the available evidence. This is not unusual in these days. Evidence-based medicine has provided their rationale. Then there is the matter of the 2 definitions of hypothyroidism. We agree that T3 does not play much of a role in diagnosing and treating deficiencies in the thyroid gland because most of the T3 is produced by peripheral metabolism sites. Just because low urine T3 correlates with sickness does not prove causality. The low T3 could have set the scene for the illness as well as the illness causing the low T3. What we need are biological tests for non-thyroidal illness. T3 is one of them. Others are the metabolism tests of body temperature and metabolism rates - but I think doctors today have quite forgotten about these. Can Dr Beastall tell us exactly which study has demonstrated this invalidity of urine tests? As far as there not being an internationally accepted scientific publication that provides authoritative evidence in favour of their use, this statement is not quite right. There is the paper by Baisier, Hertoghe, and Eeckhaut: Baisier, WV, Hertoghe, J., Beekhaut, W., Thyroid Insufficiency? Is Thyroxine the Only Valuable Drug?, J Nutr and Environ Med, September 2001, 11(3):159-166 I sent Dr Beastall's statement Standards Inconsistent - Thyroid Symptoms to Dr Thierry Hertoghe and asked for his comments. He asked me if I would post his response. Please see also the References to Thyroid Function " Dr Graham Beastall’s statement is not scientifically correct as he states the serum TSH to be the best suitable test although this test has undergone serious criticism as unreliable and highly variable in an impressive number of conditions (sleep deprivation, fasting, depression, anxiety, cancer, etc. ), aggravated by important requestioning of the value of the too broad TSH reference range.(I-1 to I-10) It is the some old story of an eminent physician who, as soon as he leaves his domain of expertise falls into the belief he knows better, even in domains he has no experience in and has not reviewed the literature (the best way to say there is no literature is not to search for it. How many 24-hour urine thyroid hormone tests has Dr Graham Beastall prescribed in his whole life and how many patients has he followed up with these tests? The answer is most probably zero. 24 –hour urine tests of the thyroid hormones T3 and T4, in particular for the most active thyroid hormone T3, provides an overall picture of the free and bioavailable hormones, and low levels of T3 and accessorily T4 correspond, in my experience, much better to more to the presence of a multitude of hypothyroid signs and symptoms. (II-1 to 10). The opposite (hyperthyroidism reflected with high T4 and in particular T3 levels is also true). The evidence is clear: correctly done, 24 hour urine sampling provides a 24 hour picture of thyroid activity, while the blood test provides only a snapshot picture, a moment in time (which is less reliable because thyroid hormone and TSH levels undergo large fluctuations (night-time levels of TSH are generally double than those during the day for example). " Dr Thierry Hertoghe President of the International Hormone Society (2800 physicians in over the 70 countries) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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