Genova Thyroid Urine Test - Help Please

[Guest guest]

have just received my test. As was no instructions at all re stopping/or not and

for how long Thyroid medication I called them.

The person was not helpful....When I asked about stopping Erfa Armour Thryroid

for testing otherwise it skewing the test, her response " well probably " I asked

for how long to stop taking " we can't advise "

So help please from the forum....

* HOW MANY DAYS should I stop EA Thyroid before taking before doing the test (

am on 45mg and increasing slowly)

Is there anything else I should stop & how many days before testing

* Presume Iodine (for how long)

* B50

* DHEA

* Calclium Pantothenate

I don't think other things would matter?

Selenium

Co Q10

Omegas

Vit C

Any guidance gratefully received

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Now this is an interesting question and one I have not thought

about before. We recommend members stop their thyroid hormone replacement after

their last dose the day before, and to take it with them to take straight after

the blood draw. Taking it on the morning of the blood draw can cause the

results to be flawed, especially if taking T3, as that peaks in the blood a

couple or so hours after taking it. However, the 24 hour urine test is to

measure how much T4 and T3 the body has actually used. I can never quite get my

head around whether these tests are useful only for those who have not yet been

given a diagnosis and therefore not taking any thyroid hormone replacement - or

for those taking thyroid hormone replacement. As far as I am concerned, for

those on thyroid hormone replacement doing any thyroid function tests are of no

use whatsoever because results will always be flawed. Doctors should go by what

symptoms you are suffering and signs and titrate your dose accordingly.

I wouldn't stand any nonsense from Genova Judy, telephone them

again and ask to speak with somebody who does know the answer.

Luv - Sheila

have just received my test. As was no

instructions at all re stopping/or not and for how long Thyroid medication I

called them.

The person was not helpful....When I asked about stopping Erfa Armour Thyroid

for testing otherwise it skewing the test, her response " well

probably " I asked for how long to stop taking " we can't advise "

So help please from the forum....

[Guest guest]

Sheila, I am confused by your comment " However, the 24 hour urine test is to

measure how much T4 and T3 the body has actually USED.

I chose this test after reading the TPA Guidebook, where on Page 38 - last para,

it says:-

Urine test relies of the findings of Hertoghe & Baisler, who showed greatly

inctreased reliability of the 24hr urine test which after all, measures the

thyroid PRODUCTION over a whole day, as opposed to the blood test, which is a

snapshot of a single moment over a whole day.....The test demosnstrates the

amount of T4 & T3 passed through the tissues - Perhaps this is what you mean by

USED?

GENOVA - said I had to ask my practitioner about IF & how long to stop any

Thyroid Supplementation pre test - they don't give advice....

Is there a name of someone who you know at Genova?

>

> Now this is an interesting question and one I have not thought about before.

> We recommend members stop their thyroid hormone replacement after their last

> dose the day before, and to take it with them to take straight after the

> blood draw. Taking it on the morning of the blood draw can cause the results

> to be flawed, especially if taking T3, as that peaks in the blood a couple

> or so hours after taking it. However, the 24 hour urine test is to measure

> how much T4 and T3 the body has actually used. I can never quite get my head

> around whether these tests are useful only for those who have not yet been

> given a diagnosis and therefore not taking any thyroid hormone replacement -

> or for those taking thyroid hormone replacement. As far as I am concerned,

> for those on thyroid hormone replacement doing any thyroid function tests

> are of no use whatsoever because results will always be flawed. Doctors

> should go by what symptoms you are suffering and signs and titrate your dose

> accordingly.

>

> I wouldn't stand any nonsense from Genova Judy, telephone them again and ask

> to speak with somebody who does know the answer.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

> have just received my test. As was no instructions at all re stopping/or not

> and for how long Thyroid medication I called them.

>

> The person was not helpful....When I asked about stopping Erfa Armour

> Thyroid for testing otherwise it skewing the test, her response " well

> probably " I asked for how long to stop taking " we can't advise "

> So help please from the forum....

>

[Guest guest]

I was also confused about this and had a discussion with . He says

in his book that there are no tests at present which show how much thryoid

hormone is actually being used at the cellular level. I'm sure that is correct

as I haven't heard of any.

So keep this in mind when interpreting the 24-hour thyroid urine test.

Miriam

> Sheila, I am confused by your comment " However, the 24 hour urine test is to

measure how much T4 and T3 the body has actually USED.

>

> I chose this test after reading the TPA Guidebook, where on Page 38 - last

para, it says:-

> Urine test relies of the findings of Hertoghe & Baisler, who showed greatly

inctreased reliability of the 24hr urine test which after all, measures the

thyroid PRODUCTION over a whole day, as opposed to the blood test, which is a

snapshot of a single moment over a whole day.....The test demosnstrates the

amount of T4 & T3 passed through the tissues - Perhaps this is what you mean by

USED?

>

[Guest guest]

Correct. " USED " to me is the same as the amount

of T4 and T3 passed through the tissues during the past 24 hours.

I realise now that Genova do the tests recommended to them by

medical practitioners and it is up to the medical practitioner to tell their

patients whether or not there is a need to stop thyroid supplements before

testing, but as I see it, if they do the testing, they need to know what should

be done, or not done, before a test is carried out, otherwise, results might be

flawed. I have not been told this, by Genova or anybody else, though I do know

thyroid hormone should not be taken the morning blood is drawn for thyroid

testing. Would Genova, for instance, test say, cholesterol level without first

giving instructions about the need to fast before the blood is drawn?

Luv - Sheila

Sheila, I am confused by your comment

" However, the 24 hour urine test is to measure how much T4 and T3 the body

has actually USED.

I chose this test after reading the TPA Guidebook, where on Page 38 - last

para, it says:-

Urine test relies of the findings of Hertoghe & Baisler, who showed greatly

inctreased reliability of the 24hr urine test which after all, measures the

thyroid PRODUCTION over a whole day, as opposed to the blood test, which is a

snapshot of a single moment over a whole day.....The test demosnstrates the

amount of T4 & T3 passed through the tissues - Perhaps this is what you

mean by USED?

GENOVA - said I had to ask my practitioner about IF & how long to stop any

Thyroid Supplementation pre test - they don't give advice....

Is there a name of someone who you know at Genova?

[Guest guest]

Thanks for response. I would not have ordered this test from GENOVA if I had

known your comment " I realise now that Genova do the tests recommended to them

by medical practitioners " as the whole point is to go it alone & not involve

medics.

Not sure Genova are going to agree with you! IN THE MEANTIME, I still have a

test that has cost me £88 and no protocols for using it, so no further forward.

Has anyone in the FORUM used this test? what did they do?

>

> Correct. " USED " to me is the same as the amount of T4 and T3 passed through

> the tissues during the past 24 hours.

>

[Guest guest]

If you don't actually go ahead and use the test kit, I expect you could get a

refund - if you have paid already. Normally, you send payment when you send off

your sample to the lab. The kit itself is only a few bits of plastic. It is

doing the work in the lab that is expensive.

Will your GP do TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and thyroid antibody tests? If so, I

wouldn't bother with the 24-hour urinary test.

If you decide to go ahead with the Genova test, here are some examples of test

results from my family, with interpretations, so you could compare them with

your results.

Myself: T3 897 pmol/24h (800-2500)

T4 948 pmol/24h (550-3160)

T3 T4 Ratio 0.94

On that basis I was diagnosed as hypothyroid.

Family member 2:

T3 958 pmol/24h (800-2500)

T4 870 pmol/24h (550-3160)

T3 T4 Ratio 1.10

This person diagnosed as not hypothyroid.

Family member 3:

T3 1031 pmol/24h (800-2500)

T4 990 pmol/25h (550-3160)

Diagnosed as not hypothyroid

Family member 4:

T3 1290 pmol/24h (800-2500)

T4 560 pmol/24h (550-3160)

T3 T4 Ratio 2.30

Diagnosed as not hypothyroid

The 24-hour urinary test will not tell you what is happening in the cells.

There is no such test. You could still have thyroid hormone resistance.

Hope this helps. I have more technical information about the 24-hour urinary

test if you want to email me privately about it.

Miriam

> Thanks for response. I would not have ordered this test from GENOVA if I had

known your comment " I realise now that Genova do the tests recommended to them

by medical practitioners " as the whole point is to go it alone & not involve

medics.

> Not sure Genova are going to agree with you! IN THE MEANTIME, I still have a

test that has cost me £88 and no protocols for using it, so no further forward.

> Has anyone in the FORUM used this test? what did they do?

[Guest guest]

To

clear up any confusion Judy, for the members of Thyroid Patient Advocacy, to

enable them to 'go it alone' without the involvement of their GP or

endocrinologist, Genova have accepted that when they order the tests that they

need, they write 'Thyroid Patient Advocacy' as their practitioner. This also

entitles members to get a good discount on the cost of the test they need. This

was done so that members who could no longer get the support and help they

needed from their practitioner had access to the tests that they needed.

If

you have changed your mind about the 24 hour urine test to check your levels of

T4 and T3 you should send the kit it back to Genova.

I

am still unsure why you feel this test is not for you.

The

statement in the TPA Guidebook that " When doubt continues to exist,

this may be resolved by the 24-hour urine test. It relies on the findings of

Hertoghe & Baisler, who showed the greatly increased reliability of the

24hr urine test which, after all, measures the thyroid PRODUCTION over a whole

day, as opposed to the blood test, which is a snapshot of a single moment showing

levels that can vary widely with time of day and other variables.The test demonstrates

the amount of T4 & T3 passed through the tissues. It is much more useful

than other tests and will show even minor degrees of low thyroid function. In

an ideal world, both the full serum, thyroid screen and the 24 hour urine

should be done, but there are logistic and financial difficulties ……While

interpretation of the 24 hour urine is perfectly straight forward, the blood

thyroid screen has to be carefully assessed "

Dr

Thierry Hertoghe (President of the International Hormone Society ) wrote in his response to

Dr Beastall that

" 24 –hour

urine tests of the thyroid hormones T3 and T4 , in particular for the most

active thyroid hormone T3, provides an overall picture of the free and

bioavailable hormones, and low levels of T3 and accessorily T4, correspond in

my experience, much better, to the presence of a multitude of hypothyroid

signs and symptoms.  The opposite (hyerpthyroidism reflected with high T4 and

in particular T3 levels, is also true). The evidence is clear: correctly done

24 hour urine sampling provides a 24 hour picture of thyroid activity, while

the blood test provides only a snapshot picture, a moment in time (which is

less reliable because thyroid hormone and TSH levels undergo large fluctuations

(nighttime levels of TSH are generally double than those during the day for

example).

It is up to you Judy, to decide whether you want to go ahead

with this test or not, but if you have had 'normal' serum thyroid function test

results yet still suffer symptoms and signs, I would have thought the 24 hour

urine test was the way to go.

Sheila

Thanks for response. I would not have ordered this test from GENOVA if I had

known your comment " I realise now that Genova do the tests recommended to

them by medical practitioners " as the whole point is to go it alone &

not involve medics.

Not sure Genova are going to agree with you! IN THE MEANTIME, I still have a

test that has cost me £88 and no protocols for using it, so no further forward.

Has anyone in the FORUM used this test? what did they do?

>

> Correct. " USED " to me is the same as the amount of T4 and T3

passed through

> the tissues during the past 24 hours.

>

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2109/4778 - Release Date: 01/31/12

[Guest guest]

Judy,

I have been poorly for many years ( fibro/ME/CFS etc) had usual NHS blood serum

tests. The test results were in the " normal " ranges and I had been told that I

definately do not have a thyroid problem.

As I was getting worse ( in desperation and getting fed off being told it's all

in your head) I ordered the Genova Urine Test. My T3 level result was very low.

This pushed me into taking my health into my own hands and making an appointment

to see Dr P.

I have only recently started to self medicate,taking small steps back on to the

road of recovery, but the NHS left me with no other choice.

Dawn

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dawn

I do intend to still do the test (if bloods don't work out). Do you remember

whether you stopped any thyroid medication on the day of doing the test? - this

is what I am trying to establish but Genova won't help me with these protocols.

Thanks

>

>

>

> Judy,

>

> I have been poorly for many years ( fibro/ME/CFS etc) had usual NHS blood

serum tests. The test results were in the " normal " ranges and I had been told

that I definately do not have a thyroid problem.

>

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry I overlooked that you were already taking Armour. Normally people get

that 24 urinary test done to see whether they are hypothyroid or not before

starting any treatment. No wonder no-one could tell you about stopping the

Armour, etc. They might have just assumed you hadn't started any treatment yet.

Did you just start the Armour as a trial to see whether it helped? I don't see

the point of doing the 24-hour urinary test if you have already started

treatment. Why not get the blood tests done instead showing Free T4, Free T3

and thyroid antibodies? However, there are no tests which show what is

happening at the cellular level.

Re blood tests at the GP: If you are already taking Armour, the TSH will be

suppressed and your GP might have a fit and tell you your thyroid levels are too

high. Personally, if I had started on self-treatment without my GP knowing, I

would just quietly ring up and cancel the tests and get the blood tests done

privately, particularly as they are not going to do the Free T3 test for you.

It's quite likely your GP will just tell you you have made yourself hyper.

Miriam

> I do intend to still do the test (if bloods don't work out). Do you remember

whether you stopped any thyroid medication on the day of doing the test? - this

is what I am trying to establish but Genova won't help me with these protocols.