Guest guest Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 http://www.talkhealthpartnership.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=123 Under the thread heading '(ab) abnormal levels' under the 'hypothyroid' thread, I have posted the following. I wonder how long this one will last before they remove it. How ridiculous it is that they have tied us down to asking questions specifically about our own thyroid health problems - and removing the really important stuff. Let's see how long this stays up. " It is not being recognised in the endocrinology specialty that for a huge minority of us, we need T3 and not T4. Here is a paper written by Dr. Marshal Goldberg, which explains why there are failed diagnostics, i.e., false negative diagnostics which are not being taken into consideration, when their patients complain of continuing symptoms, yet their thyroid function test results are 'normal'. Goldberg’s thesis is backed up by Refetoff [Refetoff S, Weiss RE, Usala SJ, 'The Syndromes of Resistance to Thyroid Hormone', Endocr Rev, 1993, 14(3):348-399] and Braverman [braverman LE, Ingbar SH, Keinwem S, 'Conversion of Thyroxine (T4) to Triiodothyronine (T3) in Athyreotic Human Subjects' The J Clin Invest, 1970, 49] and their respective co-authors. Goldberg’s paper also points to other papers that claim to have observed failures in the T4-only therapy from 1947 and 1954, along with the paper by Baiser et al. [Baisier, WV, Hertoghe, J., Beekhaut, W., 'Thyroid Insufficiency? Is Thyroxine the Only Valuable Drug?', Journal of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine, Vol 11, No. 3, September 2001, pages 159-166] These papers have been sent to the RCP and President of the BTA, on numerous occasions, asking them to take this scientific research into account. My question is, Why do they not? The proper differential diagnostic protocol requires the examination of all the physical issues, as indeed, the evidence based medicine does as well. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I don't think Professor Ernst would be very helpful to the thyroid cause at all. He has devoted his academic career to destroying support for complimentary and alternative medicine eg. homeopathy, chiropractice etc. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jul/30/edzard-ernst-homeopathy-compl\ ementary-medicine I'm sure he would toe the BTA line as he promotes evidence based medicine (ie. nothing like Armour can possibly work unless there are 300 randomised clinical trials to show it works). I think it quite telling that the BTA got him on board to answer questions. Note that he has worked for most of his life as an academic at a university, studying evidence (or the lack of it) for alternative therapies - I don't think he would be able to claim expertise in treating thyroid disease. > > I would have liked to have seen some responses from Professor Edzard Ernst > > Professor Ernst qualified as a physician in Germany where he also completed > his MD and PhD theses. He was Professor in Physical Medicine and > Rehabilitation (PMR) at Hannover Medical School (Germany) and Head of the > PMR Department at the University of Vienna (Austria). He came to the > University of Exeter in 1993 to establish the first Chair in Complementary > Medicine. > > He is founder/Editor-in-Chief of two medical journals (FACT ('Focus on > Alternative and Complementary Therapies') and 'Perfusion'). His work has > been awarded with 13 scientific prizes/awards and two Visiting > Professorships. He served on the 'Medicines Commission' of the British > 'Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency' (1994 - 2005) and on > the 'Scientific Committee on Herbal Medicinal Products' of the 'Irish > Medicines Board'. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Can anyone find Chapter 5b of the Thyroid Manager? I can't seem to get access and am interested in seeing what Dr Beastall is referring to. Thanks.LoveJacquie> >> You can read a bit more about this in Chapter 5b of The Thyroid Manager> (http://www.thyroidmanager.org)> > Dr Graham Beastall> President of the International Federation of Clinical Chemistry and> Laboratory Medicine> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think it is this http://www.thyroidmanager.org/chapter/the-non-thyroidal-illness-syndrome/ it looks like they just reorganised the site, and failed to put links from the old URLs to the new. sloppy Steve > > Can anyone find Chapter 5b of the Thyroid Manager? I can't seem to get > access and am interested in seeing what Dr Beastall is referring to. > Thanks. > LoveJacquie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 If you don't look, you don't see..... They don't do any tests of the greater thyroid system aside from the thyroid gland itself. How are endocrinologists supposed to know what is going on when they deny T3, fT3, rT3, adrenals, all supporting chemistry, body temperature, and metabolic rates? Their blinders are so situated that all they can see is T4.... Have a great day, > > > Dr. Beastall's reply below – as usual – has totally > side-stepped the question, but for what it's worth, I have to admire > the craftiness with which he has replied. He is wasted in endocrinology; > he should have become a politician.... What he is saying below is not > wrong, it is just not an answer to Sheila's questions. I have yet to > see a single reply from that man which actually answers the question > asked. grrrrrrrrrrrrr. > > > > > > A primary cause of poor conversion of T4 into T3 is extremely rare and > not difficult to diagnose. What is much more common is a relative shift > in the conversion of T4 into T3 in the presence of intercurrent illness. > This very common condition is known as non-thyroidal illness or (as it > used to be called) the sick euthyroid syndrome. A wide range of acute > and chronic illnesses can bring about subtle changes in the conversion > of T4 into T3. It is generally regarded as a normal and necessary > physiological response to slow down the metabolic rate in the presence > of a non-thyroidal illness. > > It is clear that when the intercurrent illness can be identified and > treated then the conversion of T4 into T3 is altered back to the healthy > situation. This is most easily illustrated in an elective surgery > situation where thyroid hormone metabolism normalises in a few days. In > chronic disease it is much more challenging, especially when the primary > source of the chronic disease is not easily identified and treated. It > may seem obvious that in such circumstances T3 therapy should be > considered. However, there are precious few bona fide clinical trials of > T3 replacement in situations like this and the results of those that > have been performed are not clear cut. Most doctors are cautious and in > the absence of evidence to the contrary they are reluctant to treat what > is seen as a normal physiological response to another condition. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Graphically, the idea is framed in the Greater Thyroid System schematic, which you can get to from the front page of the web site, near the bottom.. Have a great day, ERic > > The the response below is what all doctors think is the problem when we are ill and are in blood test range - it is another undiagnosed illness that is making us ill. NOT poor thyroid function / conversion. > > I haven't seen this " idea " framed and put up on the wall for us to deconstruct. I think this needs to be done (it may well have been done, but i havent come across it myself so apologies) > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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