Re: Qu for (and others!) about t3 and glucose issues

[Guest guest]

Hi (and anyone else who might be reading!)

Thanks so much for taking the time to post - I know you're in high demand at the

mo!

> Have you had serum iron and transferrin saturation % tested - if not then low

iron could be in play here.

The nhs only tests my fbc (I'm borderline anaemic, awaiting the actual number)

and ferritin (tested on Monday - 38. It's been low for years as I'm coeliac and

I can't seem to get it up. I've tried all sorts of iron preps. The nhs won't

give me iv iron as my ferritin and fbc isn't low enough. I might post separately

about this to see if anyone's got any ideas as to what I could do. Where do you

get the rest of the iron tests done in this country?

> Other things are the usual which you've probably had tested - I'll asjk the

question on this at the end.

I know my rbc magnesium was low and zo is my zinc and vitamin d but they haven't

been tested in a while. I struggle to get any of my mineral levels up, which my

gastro says is due to my coeliacs, despite that being well under control with a

strict gf diet. I'm at a loss really to know what to do.

> Ok you've had a Synacthen test and your adrenals can produce on demand but do

you know how bad they are generally? A 24-hour urinary cortisol or an adrenal

saliva test (or even a one shot morning cortisol) would provide some indication

of this.

I've done several adrenal saliva tests, all showing low cortisol and low dhea

throughout the day. been on 5 NAXS for 9 months with no improvement to the

pulse issue. Awaiting latest results.

> You should NOT push your T3 up if your heart rate is already in the 90s.

ok, I agree really as I want to sort out what the problem is but have been

trying to do this for ages with no success.

> How much T3 are you actually taking and in what divided doses?

I only started 3 days ago, having cleared the t4. Because of my histroy, I've

just started with 2.5mcg once a day. How quickly shouild I build it up given my

problems? My resting pulse is in the mid to high 80's. BP is always low

90/60ish.

> Have you had a twenty four hour adrenaline test - same as cortisol but

measures adrenaline output?

Where do I get that from and what would I do with the results?

> Glucose tolerance test for glucose levels as this can also affect adrenaline?

Yes that's the one the endo did which showed I'm hypoglycemic, though I reacted

at 3.5 and they don't usually diagnose it till the numbers drop below 2.5.

Many thanks for your help. I'm totally at the end of my tether here as being off

the levo has made me so hypo, the worse bit being I just can't sleep. Is t3

really the best thing for me right now?

Best wishes

Susie

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie,

Complex and you're not getting very good medical support either.

I mentioned the 24 hour urinary adrenaline test as it is a standard NHS

endocrinology test and will tell you/doctors if you have a high adrenaline

output from your adrenals. The saliva test won't pick that up and neither would

a synacthen. It ought to be done given your history.

So we know you have coeliac and low iron and other minerals.

The transferrin saturation % is a standard NHS test but they don't do it often

because half of them don't know about how to use it and the others are concerned

because it costs more to run.

Does anyone have any good suggestions for Susie on how to deal with the low iron

etc. given her Coeliac?

To be honest Susie I'm not entirely sure how I would proceed in your situation.

Given the low blood sugar, the low adrenals and low minerals it is a problem.

Are you on a good B complex (50 mg of B1-B6)? Low B1 can cause rapid heart rate

- apologies if you've already answered this somewhere.

I'd start with the T3 by immediately using the Circadian T3 Method. A single T3

dose placed about 3 hours before getting up on a morning. I'd use 5 mcg of T3.

If I could tolerate this then I'd slowly increase it to tolerance (perhaps even

as high as 20 mcgs) before considering adding small T3 doses in the day time.

Tracking BP, heart rate and body temperature during the day time will be key.

I never recommend doing it this way but for someone with low everything then

there is a real risk that the heart rate will just climb if T3 is used during

the day time.

We need good ideas on the iron and minerals though - I'm out of ideas on these.

If someone thinks that using another thyroid preparation would be better then

shout up. Susie - remind me - you've presumably tried T4 and NDT have you - no

success?

You are completely gluten and dairy free presumably now? Why haven't the Coeliac

symptoms gone then?

Best wishes,

paul

>

> Hi (and anyone else who might be reading!)

>

[Guest guest]

p.s. to my other reply to this (hopefully these two replies won't get out of

synch)

You do need to wait to feel clearly hypo before adding the T3 in at this stage.

My book has a Phase 1 Clearing T4 part which warns about the possible reactions

with adding the T3 in too soon. In some people the T3 can address one or more

issues which then begin to enable the T4 to be processed more effectively.

So, being hypo before commencing the T3 is a pre-requisite.

Now, in your case it could be other issues that are causing the heart rate

elevation - like low blood sugar, low cortisol, poor absorption of B vitamins or

iron etc.

However, It takes 8-12 weeks to clear T4 fully (as as fully as it is going to

go) and during that period it is important to only use enough T3 to get by on.

Best wishes,

------

Author of: Recovering with T3 My Journey from Hypothyroidism to Good Health

Using the T3 Thyroid Hormone

My facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/recoveringwitht3

My website: http://recoveringwitht3.com/

>

> Hi (and anyone else who might be reading!)

>

> Thanks so much for taking the time to post - I know you're in high demand at

the mo!

>

> > Have you had serum iron and transferrin saturation % tested - if not then

low iron could be in play here.

>

> The nhs only tests my fbc (I'm borderline anaemic, awaiting the actual number)

and ferritin (tested on Monday - 38. It's been low for years as I'm coeliac and

I can't seem to get it up. I've tried all sorts of iron preps. The nhs won't

give me iv iron as my ferritin and fbc isn't low enough. I might post separately

about this to see if anyone's got any ideas as to what I could do. Where do you

get the rest of the iron tests done in this country?

>

> > Other things are the usual which you've probably had tested - I'll asjk the

question on this at the end.

>

> I know my rbc magnesium was low and zo is my zinc and vitamin d but they

haven't been tested in a while. I struggle to get any of my mineral levels up,

which my gastro says is due to my coeliacs, despite that being well under

control with a strict gf diet. I'm at a loss really to know what to do.

>

> > Ok you've had a Synacthen test and your adrenals can produce on demand but

do you know how bad they are generally? A 24-hour urinary cortisol or an adrenal

saliva test (or even a one shot morning cortisol) would provide some indication

of this.

>

> I've done several adrenal saliva tests, all showing low cortisol and low dhea

throughout the day. been on 5 NAXS for 9 months with no improvement to the

pulse issue. Awaiting latest results.

>

>

> > You should NOT push your T3 up if your heart rate is already in the 90s.

>

> ok, I agree really as I want to sort out what the problem is but have been

trying to do this for ages with no success.

>

> > How much T3 are you actually taking and in what divided doses?

>

> I only started 3 days ago, having cleared the t4. Because of my histroy, I've

just started with 2.5mcg once a day. How quickly shouild I build it up given my

problems? My resting pulse is in the mid to high 80's. BP is always low

90/60ish.

>

> > Have you had a twenty four hour adrenaline test - same as cortisol but

measures adrenaline output?

>

> Where do I get that from and what would I do with the results?

>

> > Glucose tolerance test for glucose levels as this can also affect

adrenaline?

>

> Yes that's the one the endo did which showed I'm hypoglycemic, though I

reacted at 3.5 and they don't usually diagnose it till the numbers drop below

2.5.

>

> Many thanks for your help. I'm totally at the end of my tether here as being

off the levo has made me so hypo, the worse bit being I just can't sleep. Is t3

really the best thing for me right now?

>

> Best wishes

>

> Susie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

>

> Hi Susie,

>

> Complex and you're not getting very good medical support either.

Yep, that sums my situation up nicely

> I mentioned the 24 hour urinary adrenaline test as it is a standard NHS

endocrinology test

I did have a 24 hour test for I think something like catecholamines. Not sure.

Would that be the same one? I was told it was 'normal'. I'm in the process of

trying to get copies of my hospital records to check things like this.

> The transferrin saturation % is a standard NHS test

My NHS path lab is very unlikely to run it. they wouldn't even run ft3 and ft4

at my endo's request.

> Are you on a good B complex (50 mg of B1-B6)? Low B1 can cause rapid heart

rate - apologies if you've already answered this somewhere.

I meed to sort this - I was on B's with the NAXs and was taking a large dose so

that should be fine. Now I've stopped taking the NAXs I need to get a good B

complex.

> I'd start with the T3 by immediately using the Circadian T3 Method. A single

T3 dose placed about 3 hours before getting up on a morning. I'd use 5 mcg of

T3.

Should I do this now before the 8 week clearance has finished? I'm very

definitely hypo - I was only able to tolerate 35mcg t4, which was nowhere near

enough.

> Susie - remind me - you've presumably tried T4 and NDT have you - no success?

I've tried: levo, erfa, armour, naturethroid, purified levo and evotrox (liquid

levo).

> You are completely gluten and dairy free presumably now? Why haven't the

Coeliac symptoms gone then?

I'm extremely strict about the gluten, have been from the moment I had the

endoscopy. Dairy I'm not great with. I'm pretty sure I do have a problem with

it, and do try hard to be dairy free, but often fall off the wagon. I'm working

towards a more stoneage diet to see if that helps.

I have wondered about hypochloridia, which Dr Myhill talks about on her www, as

she attributes problems of absorbtiobn to that and I do have the symtpoms. it

fits with hypot too. I'm thinking of getting the test done for that and other

tests too via her. I know she'll prescribe magnesium shots. Not sure what to do

about the iron though.

Thanks again

Susie

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie,

Are you taking a hefty dose of Vit C with your iron as its a must have for

absorption of iron. We are talking in 1000mg dose at least. Not the piddling

60mg that's in with my iron tabs.

I do find that I can balance the iron and the VitC regarding the diarrhea

symptoms as iron bungs you up and Vit C makes you loose.

2

>

> Hi Susie,

>

> Complex and you're not getting very good medical support either.

>

> I mentioned the 24 hour urinary adrenaline test as it is a standard NHS

endocrinology test and will tell you/doctors if you have a high adrenaline

output from your adrenals. The saliva test won't pick that up and neither would

a synacthen. It ought to be done given your history.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie,

Yes - catecholamines is the same thing as adrenaline etc. - good that's off the

list then.

> > The transferrin saturation % is a standard NHS test

>

> My NHS path lab is very unlikely to run it. they wouldn't even run ft3 and ft4

at my endo's request.

So, we are still stuck with an iron problem - we need input from others here but

iron may well be a big issue.

> I meed to sort this - I was on B's with the NAXs and was taking a large dose

so that should be fine. Now I've stopped taking the NAXs I need to get a good B

complex.

You need a good B complex twice a day.

> Should I do this now before the 8 week clearance has finished? I'm very

definitely hypo - I was only able to tolerate 35mcg t4, which was nowhere near

enough.

If you are hypo then yes start - use 5 mcg or 10 mcg to start then increase by

2.5 mcg (if you can split it) or 5 if you can't when it is clear you need it.

We need to see if this method will allow the T3 to be used without heart rate

issues.

I also would like to know if you have a day or two without any T3 to begin with

whether the heart rate issue gets better or worse. I'd also like to see if you

notice the heart rate rises after meals as you may be having big allergy

reactions also.

> I have wondered about hypochloridia, which Dr Myhill talks about on her www,

as she attributes problems of absorbtiobn to that and I do have the symtpoms. it

fits with hypot too. I'm thinking of getting the test done for that and other

tests too via her. I know she'll prescribe magnesium shots. Not sure what to do

about the iron though.

If low stomach acid is an issue then this needs to get sorted also - but be very

wary of just taking betaine hydrochloride because if you don't need it then

you'll get a lot of stomach pain from excess acid.

Keep us posted.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I can't tolerate much vit c without it going straight through me unfortunately.

I can manage about 400mg tops, even with the iron.

Susie

> >

> > Hi Susie,

> >

> > Complex and you're not getting very good medical support either.

> >

> > I mentioned the 24 hour urinary adrenaline test as it is a standard NHS

endocrinology test and will tell you/doctors if you have a high adrenaline

output from your adrenals. The saliva test won't pick that up and neither would

a synacthen. It ought to be done given your history.

>

> [Ed]

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry but I missed somewhere along the way how long you have been gluten free.

It has taken me over a year to heal my gut to the point where I no longer have

issues with low iron and low B-12.

Diane

Advice is not meant to replace your doctor. No one here is a medical

professional, just other patients sharing our experiences.

https://eaware.org/

http://www.adrenalsweb.org/

NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

NTHA-Chat/

RT3_T3/

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/

thyroid treatment/

> >

> > Hi Susie,

> >

> > Complex and you're not getting very good medical support either.

>

> Yep, that sums my situation up nicely

>

> > I mentioned the 24 hour urinary adrenaline test as it is a standard NHS

endocrinology test

>

> I did have a 24 hour test for I think something like catecholamines. Not sure.

Would that be the same one? I was told it was 'normal'. I'm in the process of

trying to get copies of my hospital records to check things like this.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie,

The link I mentioned with regard to transdermal Iron supplementation also does

Vit C. If it is not listed ring the telephone number shown on the site and

discuss it with the nice man who runs and developes the products (along with Dr

Myhill).

http://www.neemgenie.co.uk/transdermal-products/cat_14.html

They also do B12, Magnesium, Multi mineral, Iodine and Iron for info of others

that need transdermal products.

Kind regards,

Tina

>

> Hi

> I can't tolerate much vit c without it going straight through me

unfortunately. I can manage about 400mg tops, even with the iron.

> S

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie

Have you tried buffered vitamin c, its supposed to be easier on the stomach etc

http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopexd.asp?id=292 & bc=no

Use code dsc1210 for 10% off

>

> Hi

> I can't tolerate much vit c without it going straight through me

unfortunately. I can manage about 400mg tops, even with the iron.

> Susie

>

> ---

[Guest guest]

Hi

Had a bit of a nightmare few days. Before reading you last post, I decided to

increase my t3 a little so I was taking 5mcg at 7am and 2.5 at 11am. That night

and the subsequent night, I had a bad racing pulse, but it also felt difficult

to breather. So hubby sent me off to the gp and I've got a chest infection. I've

had a slight fever and racing pulse and my bp has been raised (for me - not very

high for most!). I put this all down to the chest infection, but am much better

from that and felt like I was going to have a heart attack last night so haven't

taken any t3 today.

In the meantime, I've had my results:

(taken after 2 weeks on no thyroid meds or NAXs)

TSH: 8.23 (0.4-4.0)

ft3: 5.12 (2.8-6.5)

ft4: 9.88 (10-22)

TG antibodies: 79 (0-40)

TPO antibodies: 892 (0-35)

Cortisol 1: 18.9 (12-22)

Cortisol 2: 3.7 (5-9)

Cortisol 3: 3.0 (3-7)

Cortisol 4: 0.5 (1.0-3.0)

DHEA 1: 0.30 (0.40-1.47)

DHEA 2: 0.22 (as above)

A couple of points: My ft4 is always relatively lower than my ft3. My adrenal

status has improved a little on the NAXs, particularly the first reading. the

others and the DHEA remain low.

Questions!

1. My low ft4: ft3 suggests to me that I convert ok but that thet t3 for

whatever reason isn't getting into my cells well (it's usually reight at the top

of the range). Would you agree?

2. Everything I've read seems to suggest adrenal probs, low nutrients etc cause

poor conversion. Is it possible for them to not to do that but just cause poor

cellular uptake, or should I be looking for something else?

3. Is it wise me even being on t3 given this and my reaction to such a tiny

dose? Or should I just increase really slowly?

4. Is the circadian method ok to do where my first cortisol reading is

relatively high in the normal range?

5. Would I be better supplementing DHEA instead?

6. Do you know of anyone who had been so intolerant to thyroid meds and it's

been due to low iron which they've sorrected and the 'intolerance' has gone? (I

see so many references to this in theory, but not read any success storied of

real people!)

> I also would like to know if you have a day or two without any T3 to begin

with whether the heart rate issue gets better or worse.

Yes it does improve, but only goes down to the 80's for my resting pulse.

Yesterday my resting pulse on the t3 went up to 100.

>I'd also like to see if you notice the heart rate rises after meals as you may

be having big allergy reactions also.

It does. But I've never been able to work out why as it seems portion and carb

related rather than particular foods (though I am allergic to blue cheese and it

gives me v bad palps)

Thank you very much and apologies that this is so long!

Susie

[Guest guest]

Please see below. Having had no t3 yesterday, my pulse over night was much

better. Had 5mcg this morning, intending not to bother with the 2.5 at 11am. My

pulse is now 89 (resting) and pounding hard. Should I just try to ignore that or

what?

>

>

> Hi

>

> Had a bit of a nightmare few days. Before reading you last post, I decided to

increase my t3 a little so I was taking 5mcg at 7am and 2.5 at 11am. That night

and the subsequent night, I had a bad racing pulse, but it also felt difficult

to breather. So hubby sent me off to the gp and I've got a chest infection. I've

had a slight fever and racing pulse and my bp has been raised (for me - not very

high for most!). I put this all down to the chest infection, but am much better

from that and felt like I was going to have a heart attack last night so haven't

taken any t3 today.

>

> In the meantime, I've had my results:

> (taken after 2 weeks on no thyroid meds or NAXs)

> TSH: 8.23 (0.4-4.0)

> ft3: 5.12 (2.8-6.5)

> ft4: 9.88 (10-22)

> TG antibodies: 79 (0-40)

> TPO antibodies: 892 (0-35)

>

> Cortisol 1: 18.9 (12-22)

> Cortisol 2: 3.7 (5-9)

> Cortisol 3: 3.0 (3-7)

> Cortisol 4: 0.5 (1.0-3.0)

>

> DHEA 1: 0.30 (0.40-1.47)

> DHEA 2: 0.22 (as above)

>

> A couple of points: My ft4 is always relatively lower than my ft3. My adrenal

status has improved a little on the NAXs, particularly the first reading. the

others and the DHEA remain low.

>

> Questions!

>

> 1. My low ft4: ft3 suggests to me that I convert ok but that thet t3 for

whatever reason isn't getting into my cells well (it's usually reight at the top

of the range). Would you agree?

> 2. Everything I've read seems to suggest adrenal probs, low nutrients etc

cause poor conversion. Is it possible for them to not to do that but just cause

poor cellular uptake, or should I be looking for something else?

> 3. Is it wise me even being on t3 given this and my reaction to such a tiny

dose? Or should I just increase really slowly?

> 4. Is the circadian method ok to do where my first cortisol reading is

relatively high in the normal range?

> 5. Would I be better supplementing DHEA instead?

> 6. Do you know of anyone who had been so intolerant to thyroid meds and it's

been due to low iron which they've sorrected and the 'intolerance' has gone? (I

see so many references to this in theory, but not read any success storied of

real people!)

>

>

>

> > I also would like to know if you have a day or two without any T3 to begin

with whether the heart rate issue gets better or worse.

>

> Yes it does improve, but only goes down to the 80's for my resting pulse.

Yesterday my resting pulse on the t3 went up to 100.

>

> >I'd also like to see if you notice the heart rate rises after meals as you

may be having big allergy reactions also.

>

> It does. But I've never been able to work out why as it seems portion and carb

related rather than particular foods (though I am allergic to blue cheese and it

gives me v bad palps)

>

>

>

> Thank you very much and apologies that this is so long!

>

> Susie

>

[Guest guest]

I would stop the T3 for the moment until you find the

cause of this problem Susie. See how you feel after a couple or more days not

taking any. You need to check that you are not suffering with any of the

associated conditions that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells. If

suffering with palps. still, try 500mcgs magnesium and that should help

Luv - Sheila

Please see below. Having had no t3 yesterday,

my pulse over night was much better. Had 5mcg this morning, intending not to

bother with the 2.5 at 11am. My pulse is now 89 (resting) and pounding hard.

Should I just try to ignore that or what?

>

>

> Hi

>

> Had a bit of a nightmare few days. Before reading you last post, I decided

to increase my t3 a little so I was taking 5mcg at 7am and 2.5 at 11am. That

night and the subsequent night, I had a bad racing pulse, but it also felt

difficult to breather. So hubby sent me off to the gp and I've got a chest

infection. I've had a slight fever and racing pulse and my bp has been raised

(for me - not very high for most!). I put this all down to the chest infection,

but am much better from that and felt like I was going to have a heart attack

last night so haven't taken any t3 today.

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie,

Sheila just mentioned you've been posting again and I've just re-read all the

posts here.

This is the same issue as you had on T4. The response is the same - high heart

rate so it isn't specific to the T3 at all. It has to be one of iron, low blood

sugar, low cortisol, low B12 or another less common nutrient that is deficient.

The other issue here is because you produce a decent amount of T4 from your

thyroid gland and your TSH is elevated without any thyroid hormone there is a

good chance that your conversion rate of T4 is pretty good.

I'd not take any thyroid hormone of any kind if this pushes your heart rate into

the 90s. If you can find a T3 dose to take 3 hours before you get up on a

morning to help your adrenals then fine (2.5 or 5 mcgs) but your priority ought

to be on sorting out all the issues that need to be sorted to stop this problem

occurring.

This means getting your iron levels up, ensuring B12 is high enough and getting

your digestive system sorted through diet as Diane suggested. There is no point

in pushing hard on T3 or T4 whilst these other issues exist.

Best wishes,

>

> Please see below. Having had no t3 yesterday, my pulse over night was much

better.

[Guest guest]

Do you have any sort of a plan from all of this Susie?

It does seem that the most likely candidate for the problems is the low blood

sugar. Low cortisol can of cause cause this.

What are you doing now with thyroid meds?

>

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:20:14 -0000, you wrote:

>I had a bad racing pulse, but it also felt difficult to breather.

Have you had iron labs?????

Low iron can cause breathlessness as well as intolerance to T3.

Nick