Re:BUMP! 2wks on Nutri Ad Ex, when to start Armour?

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> Ive now been taking 2 tablets of Nutri Ad Ex for 2 weeks and now have started

3 tablets per day, as not much of a response with 2. I have also included B12

Sub Ling to my multi vits etc...

>

> Was wondering how long to treat my adrenals before staring on Armour? (am

currently taking 100mcg Levo) The Armour is in my kitchen cupboard, burning a

hole in it! Very tempted to start the Armour soon!!!

>

> Any suggestions?

>

> Many thanks.

>

> Louise.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Louise,

So you did not stop your Levo when you started NAX? This would have been the recommended procedure according to Dr. Peatfield....

Sorry if you had already done that, but could you briefly tell us your history?

The general advice for a switch-over when suffering adrenal fatigue is to first stop the Levo – then start NAX - 1 tablet with breakfast for 2 weeks - and of course taking all the other supplements too, namely –

A good vitamin B complex (should contain 50 mg of B1,B2,B3,B4,B5, B6) once or twice a day - once, if you take a lot of NAX, as there is already a lot of B vit in that. Vitamin C , at least 500 mg twice a day – slowly upping to bowel tolerance.Vitamin D3 2000-5000 iu per day (if you know your D3 level, adjust accordingly)a good quality Multi Mineral – Lamberts do a good one called `Mega Mineral Complex' selenium 180 iu (best in liquid form)Chelated Magnesium citrate 400 mg (once or twice a day) – It needs to be chelated, else it can give you the runs.

After about a week on NAX you can start with ½ grain Armour – same as with Levo – take on empty stomach and at least 1 hour before food.

Stay on ½ grain for at least 7 days..... if all is well after that take another ½ grain in the afternoon. Time does not matter, but make sure your stomach is empty (3 hours after food or 1 hour before food)

Carry on like that for another 4 weeks – then go up by another ½ grain every 4 weeks until you feel slight hyperthyroid symptoms – then cut back to previous dose and stay there.

Do not be tempted to up the dose of Armour any faster than that. It is bound to backfire. You need to do this slowly or you'll find yourself back at square one.

The NAX you can up every 2 weeks (up to 6 per day, if needed - divided with breakfast and lunch) - but make sure you never take it after 1 pm, or it will interfere with your sleep.

Another tip – crunch the Armour and swill it down with a little fruit juice ... apparently it works best this way, as crunching the pill breaks down the fibre and the sugar in the juice helps with the absorption.

Not sure how to best go about in your case now that you have taken the NAX without first stopping the Levo .... If it were me I would stop the Levo now, cut back the NAX to 2 a day for a week (or at least a few days, depending on how you feel) and then start with ½ grain Armour and follow the above protocol – remember to take all the other supplements too .... but perhaps someone else has a better idea?

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi, thanks for reply. No, I didnt stop taking the levo. It hasnt seem to make

much difference anyway ...dont really feel any different, not sure if its

because my

adrenal test says I am in high stage of adrenal fatigue...

I did try to link in my previous msgs with all my bloods results, adrenal test

etc.. didnt work, so will cut and paste!

(They are with Diagnos-Techs Inc with Red Apple Clinic.)

Free Cortisol Rhythm-

Am 16 (Normal) (13-24nM Range)

11am-1pm 8 (Normal) (5-10nM)

4pm- 5pm 5 (Normal) (3-8nM)

Midnight 3 (high end of Normal) (1-4nM)

Cortisol Load 32 (23-42nM Range)

DHEA Dehydroepiandrosterone Free (DHEA + DHEA-S)

Pooled value 16 Elevated (3-10ng/ml Range)

Results suggest that I am in Zone 6 HIGH DHEA in the Cortisol-DHEA Correlation

spectrum. (There are 7 ranges) 7 being Adrenal Fatigue end.

Insulin

Fasting <3 (normal 3-12ulU/ml)

Non-Fasting 3 Depressed (Depressed)(range5-20ulU/mL)

Progesterone 43 (Normal 22-100pg/ml)

Total Salivary SIga 10 DEPRESSED (Normal Range 25-60mg/dl) (Borderline Range

20-25mg/dl)

Negative Gliadin Ab,SIga) 5

My Doctor (GP) would only agree to do a few blood test and not all you

suggested! She has now ref me to endo.

Blood results

FT3 3.1 (2.6-5.7)

FT4 15.6 (9-19.1)

TSH 1.05 (0.35-5.0)

B12 318 (130-900)

Folate 20.5 (3.1-2.00)

She refused to do the reverse T3 because she said she would not understand the

results!

My hypo was discovered after my first pregnancy and I was commenced on levo.

During my second pregnancy my dose was adjusted (according to blood results,

which I now know were rubbish!) Now, after going back and forth to the Gp and

advising them of lingering hypo symptoms I have taken it upon myself to sort my

symptoms out!

My Gp (several of them) say that my brain fog, tiredness etc is due to having

two children and kiddie induced stress. I asked about going on Armour and they

didnt even know what it was, and said they cannot perscribe.

To answer your question- I did have the anti-body check blood test years ago to

confirm the Hashi diagnosis. I have found out that my pateral gran had thyroid

probs also, Dad has auto immune p.aneamia also................thats as much as I

know about family history.

I am currently on 100mcg of levothyroxin. Maternity doc raised me to 125mcg

during my second pregnancy and I stayed on this for about 6mths after birth and

then was dropped down again to 100mcg. My first pregnancy seems to be the start

of my thyroid probs..... couldnt remember a thing and was tired 6 mths after

birth.

Hope this gives a bit more of an insight.... would love to get some feedback on

adrenal tests.....

I will add a few more vitamins to my daily doses I think, as suggested.

Many thanks

Louise.

>

>

>

>

> Hi Louise,

>

> So you did not stop your Levo when you started NAX? This would have

> been the recommended procedure according to Dr. Peatfield....

>

>

> Sorry if you had already done that, but could you briefly tell us your

> history?

>

>

>

> The general advice for a switch-over when suffering adrenal fatigue is

> to first stop the Levo – then start NAX - 1 tablet with breakfast

> for 2 weeks - and of course taking all the other supplements too,

> namely –

>

>

>

> A good vitamin B complex (should contain 50 mg of B1,B2,B3,B4,B5, B6)

> once or twice a day - once, if you take a lot of NAX, as there is

> already a lot of B vit in that.

> Vitamin C , at least 500 mg twice a day – slowly upping to bowel

> tolerance.

> Vitamin D3 2000-5000 iu per day (if you know your D3 level, adjust

> accordingly)

> a good quality Multi Mineral – Lamberts do a good one called

> `Mega Mineral Complex'

> selenium 180 iu (best in liquid form)

> Chelated Magnesium citrate 400 mg (once or twice a day) – It needs

> to be chelated, else it can give you the runs.

>

>

>

> After about a week on NAX you can start with ½ grain Armour –

> same as with Levo – take on empty stomach and at least 1 hour before

> food.

>

> Stay on ½ grain for at least 7 days..... if all is well after that

> take another ½ grain in the afternoon. Time does not matter, but make

> sure your stomach is empty (3 hours after food or 1 hour before food)

>

> Carry on like that for another 4 weeks – then go up by another ½

> grain every 4 weeks until you feel slight hyperthyroid symptoms –

> then cut back to previous dose and stay there.

>

> Do not be tempted to up the dose of Armour any faster than that. It is

> bound to backfire. You need to do this slowly or you'll find

> yourself back at square one.

>

>

>

> The NAX you can up every 2 weeks (up to 6 per day, if needed - divided

> with breakfast and lunch) - but make sure you never take it after 1 pm,

> or it will interfere with your sleep.

>

>

>

> Another tip – crunch the Armour and swill it down with a little

> fruit juice ... apparently it works best this way, as crunching the pill

> breaks down the fibre and the sugar in the juice helps with the

> absorption.

>

>

>

> Not sure how to best go about in your case now that you have taken the

> NAX without first stopping the Levo .... If it were me I would stop the

> Levo now, cut back the NAX to 2 a day for a week (or at least a few

> days, depending on how you feel) and then start with ½ grain Armour

> and follow the above protocol – remember to take all the other

> supplements too .... but perhaps someone else has a better idea?

>

>

>

> Best wishes,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Louise,

Oh boy.... you've got me ;o) - those results are a bit of a mystery to me.....

Am 16 (Normal) (13-24nM Range)11am-1pm 8 (Normal) (5-10nM)4pm- 5pm 5 (Normal) (3-8nM)Midnight 3 (high end of Normal) (1-4nM)Cortisol Load 32 (23-42nM Range)DHEA Dehydroepiandrosterone Free (DHEA + DHEA-S)Pooled value 16 Elevated (3-10ng/ml Range)Results suggest that I am in Zone 6 HIGH DHEA in the Cortisol-DHEA Correlationspectrum. (There are 7 ranges) 7 being Adrenal Fatigue end.InsulinFasting <3 (normal 3-12ulU/ml)Non-Fasting 3 Depressed (Depressed)(range5-20ulU/mL)Progesterone 43 (Normal 22-100pg/ml)Total Salivary SIga 10 DEPRESSED (Normal Range 25-60mg/dl) (Borderline Range20-25mg/dl)Negative Gliadin Ab,SIga) 5

This is what I don't quite understand – Your adrenal function seems almost "normal" and just looking at you cortisol output I would say there is nothing wrong with your adrenal function and your progesterone is ok too and your Gliadin is negative....

But clearly, there is more to it than meets the eye – your DHEA is high, your insulin levels are depressed as is Slga - and to be honest, to interpret those results is out of my competence. This is too specialist a subject for me. I had a look at this website below, and my guess would be that one of those two points (2 and 4) might be relevant for the depressed Slga –

2- A short imbalance in sympathetic to parasympathetic

activity rapidly inhibits SIgA release from the mucosal

immunocytes for several hours.

Or -

4- Possible systemic deficit in capacity to produce IgA -

an inherited problem. Rule out possibility with a serum

IgA test. A normal finding rules out this possibility.Point 2 has something to do with high levels of anger in a patient, point 4 suggests an inherited problem... your family history might have some relevance in this.

http://curezone.com/upload/_A_Forums/Adrenal_Fatigue/_Aguilar_Adrenal_Test_Results.pdf

My gut feeling in all this is that you are under-medicated with thyroid hormone and my hope is that the correct amount of Armour will sort all your other hormonal problems out. All your issues might be the result of a knock-on effect of too little thyroid hormone in your cells. But this is just an educated guess, I am no expert.

My Doctor (GP) would only agree to do a few blood test and not all yousuggested! She has now ref me to endo.FT3 3.1 (2.6-5.7)FT4 15.6 (9-19.1)TSH 1.05 (0.35-5.0)B12 318 (130-900)Folate 20.5 (3.1-2.00)She refused to do the reverse T3 because she said she would not understand theresults!

The lab would probably have rejected to do an rT3 anyway. Unfortunately she hasn't done ferritin and would have been important – with a bit of luck the endo might order it. Your high folate is unusual. Have you been supplementing folate?

It is, however, possible that the high folate might indicate vit B12 deficiency.... although in range, your B12 is relatively low (should be around the 800-900 mark) and with your father's history of PA there might be a link here that needs further investigation IMO. If you had PA like your dad by any chance, then I have a feeling that oral supplementation of B12 will not raise the level, you might need injections... but again, this is not my field, someone else might have a clearer idea.

Your thyroid levels however, are clearly too low. If you wanted to stay on Levo (which you don't) then you'd need a higher dose. But since you are switching to Armour anyway, let's hope that this will serve you better...

My Gp (several of them) say that my brain fog, tiredness etc is due to havingtwo children and kiddie induced stress. I asked about going on Armour and theydidnt even know what it was, and said they cannot perscribe.

That's their usual spiel about our symptoms.... and you are right not to believe it.

To answer your question- I did have the anti-body check blood test years ago toconfirm the Hashi diagnosis. I have found out that my pateral gran had thyroidprobs also, Dad has auto immune p.aneamia also................thats as much as Iknow about family history.

Well, that's quite a lot... It proves that your thyroid condition is of auto-immune origin and that you are genetically predisposed (PA is also an autoimmune condition). Hope this gives a bit more of an insight.... would love to get some feedback onadrenal tests.....I will add a few more vitamins to my daily doses I think, as suggested.Yes, thanks, that makes the picture a little clearer. I am sorry that I can't give you any really helpful info on your adrenal status, but as far as I can make out your main problem is a lack of thyroid hormone, not a lack of cortisol. Hopefully Armour will suit you better than Levo and bring up your thyroid levels.

To summarize – Because of your normal looking cortisol results I wonder if NAX would be beneficial for you. In my view you do not need the glandulars in NAX – but you certainly need a good quality B-Complex twice a day along with high Vit C, Selenium, Mega Minerals, Magnesium, D3 etc and B12 either orally or injected. A lack of cortisol does IMO not appear to be your problem, but some biochemical process in your body has gone wrong and is upsetting the apple cart and stress as well as genetic disposition seem to have a hand in that. How exactly it all hangs together is above my knowledge.

Unless somebody else here has a better suggestion - if I were in your shoes I would proceed with the switch-over to Armour straight away and wean off the NAX, but replace it with a B-complex (50 mg of each twice daily and proceed with dropping the Levo in the morning and replacing it straight away with ½ grain of Armour and proceed as outlined yesterday. What do others think?

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Thankyou for your reply! I'm starting the Armour tomorrow! Very excited! Getting

those extra vitamins and will get follow up blood test from GP (fingers crossed)

to see if what i'm taking is working)

I work for the NHS and managed to have a chat with a Medical Reg who is an

endo............... after our chat I am very wary about even going to any Endo

appt....... she was very doubtful of Armour, Saliva tests and even the mere idea

of thinking outside of the box! She thinks Armour is a placebo effect- we shall

see............... It was a very informative " Chat " Anyway, thankyou for

suggestions and time will tell. If anybody elese wants to add anything, I'm very

open to suggestions!!!

Louise.

>

>

> Hello Louise,

>

>

>

> Oh boy.... you've got me ;o) - those results are a bit of a

> mystery to me.....

>

>

> Am 16 (Normal) (13-24nM Range)

> 11am-1pm 8 (Normal) (5-10nM)

> 4pm- 5pm 5 (Normal) (3-8nM)

> Midnight 3 (high end of Normal) (1-4nM)

> Cortisol Load 32 (23-42nM Range)

>

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

> Thankyou for your reply! I'm starting the Armour tomorrow! Very excited! Getting those extra vitamins and will get follow up blood test from GP (fingers crossed) to see if what i'm taking is working)>> I work for the NHS and managed to have a chat with a Medical Reg who is an endo............... after our chat I am very wary about even going to any Endo appt....... she was very doubtful of Armour, Saliva tests and even the mere idea of thinking outside of the box! She thinks Armour is a placebo effect- we shall see...

Good luck, Louise, and please let us know how you are getting on

(((LOL))) Placebo effect.... my foot !!!! In that case my placebo effect has been working for the past 3 years and my blood results have miraculously had a placebo effect too..... - whatever will they come up with next !??

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Ask her how long the placebo effect lasts.    I have been on Armour and Erfa for 8 + years and it is still working for me.    A placebo is supposed to be a pill that contains nothing and that the mind is doing all the work.    So why are they so reluctant to prescribe Armour.

They contradict themselves.   They say that it is dangerous and then say it is a placebo.   Well all I can say is that if it is a placebo then prescribe me this placebo.   Lilian 

 she was very doubtful of Armour, Saliva tests and even the mere idea of thinking outside of the box! She thinks Armour is a placebo effect- we shall see...............

[Guest guest]

Thankyou Lilian for you support! Very firm! I'm 3 days in now starting

Armour........... bought the pill cutter today.... very difficult chopping

armour grains with the kitchen knife on the counter! I'm very positive that this

is what I need. Thankyou for your positive words!

Louise.

>

> Ask her how long the placebo effect lasts. I have been on Armour and

> Erfa for 8 + years and it is still working for me. A placebo is supposed

> to be a pill that contains nothing and that the mind is doing all the work.

> So why are they so reluctant to prescribe Armour.

>

> They contradict themselves. They say that it is dangerous and then say it

> is a placebo. Well all I can say is that if it is a placebo then

> prescribe me this placebo.

>

> Lilian

>

> > she was very doubtful of Armour, Saliva tests and even the mere idea of

> > thinking outside of the box! She thinks Armour is a placebo effect- we

> > shall see...............

> >

>