T3 references urgently needed

[Guest guest]

I can't see to read through the red mist of anger and upset.I need a few references to counter these arguments:Suppressed TSH when on T3 only will cause sudden and dangerous atrial fibrilation.Suppressed TSH when on T3 only will cause osteoporosis and my bones will break.I must reduce the T3 from 50 to 40 because my TSH is below the ref. range, even though my T3 level is still low in the ref. range. (2.4 I think he said.)Background: I was changed from eltroxin to T3 (Ti Tre) only because despite T4 at 29 and undetectable TSH I was obviously becoming more and more unwell with multiple hypo symptoms. I felt like I was being poisoned.Conversion problem finally suspected. Dramatic improvement in health on stopping eltroxin - eg constant itching all over stopped at once.After just a week on T3 I could feel my fingers for first time in a decade, etc etc.After 4 months and a final dose of 45/50 per day T3 I described it to consultant that it was like someone switched the light on and I felt better than for many, many years. All was well until my blood was tested.It is difficult to argue with a very distinguished consultant endocrinologist. He did in the end prescribe 50, but is going to ring me when the latest TSH is known. He did promise to read anything I email him, and even said he was "prepared to learn from patients".Please help me by pointing out a few references, preferably from journals.I did not sleep last night as I was so angry and upset. All those years feeling awful, then to be transformed by two and a bit tiny pills, only to be sent back to square minus one, is how it feels.NB: The TSH test which got him all worried was done in the afternoon about 2 hours after I took 10, having taken 20 when I first woke. Latest test done 7 hours after taking only 10 early morning. I didn't dare risk taking none at all as I wouldn't have coped with the 2 hour drive to get to the hospital on no T3 since late afternoon the day before. (It would have meant nearly 24 hours without any T3.)I have absolutely no signs of over treatment.Thanks in advance for your help.

[Guest guest]

Hi

Attached

are some (many!) references to T3 and other goodies - to hand over to your

doubting endo. These I have saved when I came across them or somebody sent them

to me. I could do with somebody cleaning this up somewhat, as I just tend to

copy and paste new references into these pages as and when they come in.

I

will send you separately other references (lots) that will counter the other

arguments. I will send these to you privately,.

A probably

even more 'eminent endocrinologist' i.e. PROFESSOR Weetman, gave

evidence in court (at Dr Skinner's Hearing) saying that thyroid function blood

test results would be flawed if thyroid hormone replacement was taken on the

morning before blood was drawn. Here is the evidence - You can find this in the

GMC Transcripts to Dr Skinner's Fitness to Practice Hearing here  - http://www.tpa

uk.org.uk/skinner_hearing_transcripts.php   – Day 4 – page 13.

Q What about the

laboratories that do offer the T3 and the T4? We are looking at people before

they have received any medication, before they are on thyroxine. Is T3 and T4

in those circumstances a reasonably accurate test or not?

A I do not know of a laboratory which routinely

offers free T3, so let us stick with free T4. Free T4 assays are as reliable as

TSH. Let me be clear on this, there are a number of factors which will

interfere with these assays which are well recognised by endocrinologists and

have to be taken into account. Provided one does that then the assays are

equally reliable.

Q What about

once the patient is taking thyroxine?

A

If I can just continue on the last point. One of the reasons for not relying on

the free T4 is that in the earliest stages of thyroid failure, so called

sub-clinical hypothyroidism, the TSH levels go up but the free T4 levels remain

normal. In that situation you have a partially damaged thyroid gland. If I go

back (The witness demonstrated on the chart) If there is slight

damage to the thyroid gland the TSH levels will rise in order to stimulate the

gland.

Q In order to

compensate?

A

Exactly and do so in the majority of patients. So they end up maintaining free

T4 which is normal at the expense of the high TSH which is stimulating the

gland and that is why you can sometimes have the situation of an elevated TSH

but a normal free T4.

Q I think we do

see that in some these cases. If you have an elevated TSH but a normal T4

within the reference range, is that a signal - it is not diagnostic presumably

- but is that a signal of thyroid problems?

A

It is. It would certainly need follow up.

Q I was going to

come on, if we have finished that area, to dealing with using T3 andT4 as a

test once the patient is on thyroxine?

A

The problem

with using free T4 measurements if a patient is taking thyroxine is

that the level

fluctuate after taking thyroxine treatment. Therefore, within the few hours

after

ingestion there can be a ten or fifteen per cent level difference in level

compared to twelve to twenty four hours after ingestion. The second problem which is frequently encountered by endocrinologists is that the patients may not

adhere to their treatment very strictly and may

remember to take a tablet before a blood test which will give them normal T4 levels and might have omitted their tablets over

the preceding weeks. Because of the sensitivity

of the pituitary that can be identified by raised TSH but a normal free T4. Therefore, TSH, because it is measuring a response of the

body, in this case the pituitary gland, it is by

far the best measure of the nature and degree of thyroid hormone replacement.

Please note how skilfully Prof Weetman skirts

around the issue of the T3 ..... Although he does not say it in such

words, he is insinuating that the correct level for measuring FT4 is 12 to

24 hours after ingestion. And to be on the safe side (and not risk

our doctors to reduce our medication) - on this forum it is generally

advised to lay off the pills for at least 24 hours.

Luv

- Sheila

see to read through the red mist of anger and

upset.

I need a few references to counter these arguments:

Suppressed

TSH when on T3 only will cause sudden and dangerous atrial fibrillation.

Suppressed

TSH when on T3 only will cause osteoporosis and my bones will break.

I

must reduce the T3 from 50 to 40 because my TSH is below the ref. range,

even though my T3 level is still low in the ref. range. (2.4 I think he

said.)

Background:

I was changed from Eltroxin to T3 (Ti Tre) only because despite T4 at 29 and

undetectable TSH I was obviously becoming more and more unwell with multiple

hypo symptoms. I felt like I was being poisoned.

Conversion problem finally suspected.

Dramatic improvement in health on stopping eltroxin - eg constant itching all

over stopped at once.

After just a week on T3 I could feel my fingers for first time in a decade, etc

etc.

After 4 months and a final dose of 45/50 per day T3 I described it to

consultant that it was like someone switched the light on and I felt better

than for many, many years.

All was well until my blood was tested.

It is difficult to argue with a very distinguished consultant endocrinologist.

He did in the end prescribe 50, but is going to ring me when the latest TSH is

known.

He did promise to read anything I email him, and even said he was

" prepared to learn from patients " .

Please help me by pointing out a few references, preferably from journals.

I did not sleep last night as I was so angry and upset. All those years

feeling awful, then to be transformed by two and a bit tiny pills, only to be

sent back to square minus one, is how it feels.

NB:

The TSH test which got him all worried was done in the afternoon about 2 hours

after I took 10, having taken 20 when I first woke.

Latest test done 7 hours after taking only 10 early morning. I didn't

dare risk taking none at all as I wouldn't have coped with the 2 hour drive to

get to the hospital on no T3 since late afternoon the day before. (It would

have meant nearly 24 hours without any T3.)

I have absolutely no signs of over treatment.

Thanks in advance for your help.

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4808 - Release Date: 02/13/12

1 of 1 File(s)

References to T3 and other goodies.doc

[Guest guest]

>> I can't see to read through the red mist of anger and upset.> I need a few references to counter these arguments:> > * Suppressed TSH when on T3 only will cause sudden and dangerous> atrial fibrilation. What? always? how come I haven't got it then? And neither have lots of others..... Over high t3 can cause problems, but supressed tsh on it's own is fairly harmless...... TSH doesn't do anything except stimulate the thyroid.> * Suppressed TSH when on T3 only will cause osteoporosis and my bones> will break. Yep.. if the tsh is caused by free t3 which is much too high (as in Graves)> * I must reduce the T3 from 50 to 40 because my TSH is below the ref.> range, even though my T3 level is still low in the ref. range. (2.4 I> think he said.) He's a nutter..... read this http://www.endocrinology.org/press/pressreleases/2010-03-16_Thyroxine.pdf > >> It is difficult to argue with a very distinguished consultant> endocrinologist. Ha! it's more difficult to argue with Sheila - because she is right)> He did in the end prescribe 50, but is going to ring me when the latest> TSH is known.> He did promise to read anything I email him, and even said he was> "prepared to learn from patients".> > The TSH test which got him all worried was done in the afternoon about 2> hours after I took 10, having taken 20 when I first woke. Never ever take meds before a test... > Latest test done 7 hours after taking only 10 early morning. I didn't> dare risk taking none at all as I wouldn't have coped with the 2 hour> drive to get to the hospital on no T3 since late afternoon the day> before. (It would have meant nearly 24 hours without any T3.)> > I have absolutely no signs of over treatment. Probably because you are not over treated.....> > Thanks in advance for your help.> >

[Guest guest]

>

> I will send you separately other references (lots) that will counter the other

arguments. I will send these to you privately,.

>

>

Thank you very much, Shiela.

Sorry to ask a dim question, but where will your private message to me appear?

By the way, I am afraid the doc in question really is 'emminent' - I live in

Ireland!

[Guest guest]

read this

> http://www.endocrinology.org/press/pressreleases/2010-03-16_Thyroxine.pd\

Thanks for your reply.

I am afraid the above link does not work.

Do you think I would cope without T3 for nearly 24 hours?

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oooops! I sent it to the wrong - hey White, you got a

bonus yesterday, so keep them safe in case you need to use those references

too. They should have gone to atty.atty . I will now send to your Email

address , so watch out for them, 'cos they are pretty heavy!

Luv - Sheila

>

> I will send you separately other references (lots) that will counter the

other arguments. I will send these to you privately,.

>

>

Thank you very much, Shiela.

Sorry to ask a dim question, but where will your private message to me appear?

By the way, I am afraid the doc in question really is 'emminent' - I live in

Ireland!

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 02/15/12

[Guest guest]

> I will now send to your Email

> address , so watch out for them, 'cos they are pretty heavy!

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>Shiela, you are an absolute GEM!!!!

Thank you SO much.

Even before looking at the additional information you are going to send, what

you have sent already is very helpful, especially the most recent research. I

love the papers about AF, and also the complete demolition of the osteoporosis

scare-tactic.

Thanks again, Sheila.

I felt so upset before I wrote to the TPA and was thinking all my progress was

going to have been for nothing, and now I have some hope again and I will not

have to go back to square minus one, after all.

I will let you know the outcome when I finally hear from the great man himself.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 02/15/12

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It should work ok.... here it is again.... if not, do a google search

of society for endocrinolgy press releases and look for the one dated

March 2010.

http://www.endocrinology.org/press/pressreleases/2010-03-16_Thyroxine.pd\

f

I can't say whether you would be fine without T3.... I'm not a doctor

and If I told you you would be fine and then you weren't, you could sue

me. But an awful lot of people survive without T3 when they need it

and the docs won't give it.... admitted they feel pretty bad, but they

do survive for a very long time.

.

>

>

> I am afraid the above link does not work.

>

> Do you think I would cope without T3 for nearly 24 hours?

>

>

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I got the link to work this time. Thank you very much.