Re: Levothyroxine and weight gIn

[Guest guest]

Hi Vickyanne,

I have gained some weight recently but not that significant.

However, I do get quite painful oedema in my legs, abdomen, fingers and breasts.

I'm on 50mcg but my FT3 is too low. I'm taking iron and B12 (ferritin and B12

were too low too) and doing a candida diet. My GP wanted to increase my Levo

but I was told here that there is no point until my Ferritin and B12 are not

higher, as no thyroid hormone will be utilised on a cellular level.

I felt better after 4-5 weeks of iron and B12 and doubled my Levo a few days

ago, will see how it goes...

Thanks,

Anita

>

> Hi all

>

> I read on here a couple of weeks ago a question about levothyroxine and weight

gain. Has anybody found that they have gained significant weight whilst taking

levothyroxine and what helped them. Also did anybody find that they also had

oedema in abdomen, hand and fingers and legs whilst taking levothyroxine, the

oedema being quite painful.

>

> I look forward to any feedback and give thanks in advance.

>

> Vickyanne

>

[Guest guest]

There has

been some research that shows that levothyroxine is a cause of weight gain. I

mentioned this in my rebuttal to the BTA's misleading statements on their web

site. Check here http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_t4t3.pdf

" In another

study in which patients were rendered hypothyroid by therapeutic destruction of

the thyroid gland, some participants were given TSH-suppressive dosages of

thyroid hormone and others given T4 replacement. Those on TSH-suppressive

dosages did not gain excess weight; those on T4-replacement did. The

researchers concluded that T4-replacement was the cause of the excess weight

gain.43 Other

studies have shown that treatment of obesity using T3 alone with a very low

calorie diet helps reduce weight,44 , 45, 46, 47 , 48, 49, 50, 51 and

interestingly, a study published in the European Journal of Endocrinology

(Ortega et al 2008) concluded that T3 concentrations might play a role in the

regulation of insulin secretion.52

These

published reports are consistent with thousands of cases from thyroid patient

support groups in the UK and worldwide where hypothyroid patients have

recovered from their symptoms and other health problems with TSH-suppressive

dosages of thyroid hormone after T4-replacement failed to help them.53.54

I read on here a couple of weeks ago a question about levothyroxine and weight

gain. Has anybody found that they have gained significant weight whilst taking

levothyroxine and what helped them. Also did anybody find that they also had

oedema in abdomen, hand and fingers and legs whilst taking levothyroxine, the

oedema being quite painful.

I look forward to any feedback and give thanks in advance.

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[Guest guest]

I wish! 30mcgs T3 only - weight gain 23lbs in nine months.

I just know the endo will tell me to reduce my dose tomorrow because my TSH is

now <0.02 (0.35-6) and my FT3 is now just above range. 7.2 (2.8-7)

I know this will be a disaster because as well as the weight gain I still have

low BBT and bags of other hypo signs and symptoms, but it is the weight gain

that gets to me most. Since I have been treated with T3 I have become

overweight for the first time in my life and that has quite an impact on my

psychological well being.

What can I say to stop them?

D

> " In another study in which patients were rendered hypothyroid by

> therapeutic destruction of the thyroid gland, some participants were given

> TSH-suppressive dosages of thyroid hormone and others given T4 replacement.

> Those on TSH-suppressive dosages did not gain excess weight; those on

> T4-replacement did. The researchers concluded that T4-replacement was the

> cause of the excess weight gain.43 Other studies have shown that treatment

> of obesity using T3 alone with a very low calorie diet helps reduce

> weight,44 , 45, 46, 47 , 48, 49, 50, 51 and interestingly, a study published

[Guest guest]

Have you tried Erfa thyroid? could you ask to try it?

>

>

> I know this will be a disaster because as well as the weight gain I still have

low BBT and bags of other hypo signs and symptoms, but it is the weight gain

that gets to me most. Since I have been treated with T3 I have become

overweight for the first time in my life and that has quite an impact on my

psychological well being.

[Guest guest]

Don't discuss weight gain as being your main worry with your

doctor. He will then believe that you are insisting on using T3 only as a way

to reduce your weight, which some people do, to excess and this is not the way

to lose weight. Join our Chat forum and chat to others there who are managing

to lose several stones with an amazing diet.

Doctors and patients MUST work together according to the GMC.

Your doctor cannot stop make you stop your medication just because your thyroid

function test results are not where he wants them to be. The results change if

you took your medication on the morning, making them look as if you are taking

too much. Tell the doc. you took your meds the same day, and that you forgot

you should have stopped the day before.

If you are not getting symptoms of hyperthyroidism, it is up to

you whether you decide to decrease your dose or not, but I will tell you that I

am aware of many, many cases where a GP has made a patient decrease their dose

of Y3 or go back onto thyroxine-only, only to find their symptoms returned and

they had a long hard struggle to get back to how they felt before again.

Even the British Thyroid Association recommend that you should

not take any thyroid hormone the day your blood is drawn:

" Measurement of

serum T4 or T3 levels on their own are not recommended for

monitoring thyroid hormone replacement in

primary hypothyroidism, as the levels

may change through the day after ingestion

of a tablet and the levels do not reflect

the tissue response to thyroid hormone in

the way TSH does. For instance, if a

patient omits thyroxine tablets for a few

weeks the TSH levels will rise, but the FT4

level will be normal if the patient then

remembers to take thyroxine for a day or two

before

attending clinic. " http://www.british-thyroid-association.org/info-for-patients/Docs/bta_patient_hypothyroidism.pdf

And Professor Weetman, ex President of the BTA gave evidence as

an 'expert witness' at a GMC Hearing but going into more detail. If your GP

doesn't know this, then perhaps you should bring his knowledge up to date.

I wish! 30mcgs T3 only - weight gain 23lbs in

nine months.

I just know the endo will tell me to reduce my dose tomorrow because my TSH is

now <0.02 (0.35-6) and my FT3 is now just above range. 7.2 (2.8-7)

I know this will be a disaster because as well as the weight gain I still have

low BBT and bags of other hypo signs and symptoms, but it is the weight gain

that gets to me most. Since I have been treated with T3 I have become

overweight for the first time in my life and that has quite an impact on my

psychological well being.

[Guest guest]

I wish! 30mcgs T3 only - weight gain 23lbs in nine months.I just know the endo will tell me to reduce my dose tomorrow because my TSH is now <0.02 (0.35-6) and my FT3 is now just above range. 7.2 (2.8-7)What can I say to stop them?

LIE .... Tell your endo you had taken a dose of T3 two or three hours before the blood draw <g> – well .... that would be one solution – perhaps not the most moral one, but to my mind all is fair in love and war.... and this is war.

If your endo wanted then to repeat the TFT, stop your T3 for a full day before the blood draw.... that should do the trick of massaging the figures suitably downwards. Your TSH would be suppressed whatever you do with T3, so that can't be helped. Treatment should never be guided by the TSH anyway.

However.... whilst this might help your immediate problem of having to lower the T3, it does not solve the problem of your weight gain. To gain weight on T3-only therapy is not something one would expect. I am not on T3, so it is difficult for me to suggest what might be the problem - Nick or might have a better idea. I can only think that 30 mcg T3 as a daily dose is still way too low.... 70 – 100 mcg is what people usually take when on T3 only.... but there is the small problem of your elevated T3 on such a low dose, and that bugs me. Is it possible that – for whatever reason – the T3 is not making it inside the cells?? Is it possible that even T3 might be converted into rT3 ??? - I honestly do not know, but perhaps somebody else here can answer this question ?

If about £ 90 or so would not break your bank, I would – just for your own peace of mind (not that of your endo's) – consider a urinary 24 hour thyroid function test with Genova. This would show you exactly how much T3 and T4 is being utilized by your body over a period of 24 hours. It would (hopefully) reassure you that you are not overmedicating. - If you did that, please phone the lab technician or Dr. Abraham to ask if you should take your T3 during those 24 hours or not.... I would assume that you keep taking it, but I do not know for sure!

I do not know what is going wrong in your case, but things sometimes do. The body is a very complicate piece of kit and does not always follow the text book. Have you checked that your minerals and vits are at the top of their respective ref ranges? This might be another reason for non-utilization of thyroid hormone... and if the thyroid hormone were not utilized, that could account for the weight gain...

If your endo really cut your T3 supply, it's not the end of the world.... you can always buy it yourself. Lab figures can always be massaged, except for the TSH – that will stay suppressed, whatever you do. Even a lowering of T3 is unlikely to bring the TSH into the "normal" range, so if you feel ok on those 30 mcg and unless you have hyper symptoms, I don't see the point in reducing. It is futile trying to regulate T3 treatment by lab results alone. They should only serve as rough guidelines, never rigid rules.

Good luck, D. – and let us know what the endo says.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I wish! 30mcgs T3 only - weight gain 23lbs in nine months.

> I just know the endo will tell me to reduce my dose tomorrow because my

> TSH is now <0.02 (0.35-6) and my FT3 is now just above range. 7.2

> (2.8-7)

> What can I say to stop them?

>

>

>

> LIE .... Tell your endo you had taken a dose of T3 two or three hours

> before the blood draw. Treatment should never be guided

> by the TSH anyway.

>

> They were insistent that I take my meds before the test to avoid a false high

result. Unmoved by evidence Sheila provided to say I should not (never have

before incidentally)

>

> However.... whilst this might help your immediate problem of having to

> lower the T3, it does not solve the problem of your weight gain. To gain

> weight on T3-only therapy is not something one would expect. I am not

> on T3, so it is difficult for me to suggest what might be the problem -

> Nick or might have a better idea. I can only think that 30 mcg T3

> as a daily dose is still way too low.... 70 – 100 mcg is what people

> usually take when on T3 only.... but there is the small problem of your

> elevated T3 on such a low dose, and that bugs me. Is it possible that

> – for whatever reason – the T3 is not making it inside the

> cells?? Is it possible that even T3 might be converted into rT3 ??? - I

> honestly do not know, but perhaps somebody else here can answer this

> question ?

>

>I think it's pooling in the blood now because my ferritin level is too low.

This is an ongoing saga over three years, but the haemo won't give me the

therapy the endo says I need.

>

>

> Good luck, D. – and let us know what the endo says.

I'll let you know what happens. What this shower come up with this time!

D

[Guest guest]

They were insistent that I take my meds before the test to avoid a false high result. Unmoved by evidence Sheila provided to say I should not (never have before incidentally)

They said WHAT?!!? They actually told you to take T3 before the test ????? Holy cow!! Please tell me it was a GP and not an Endo-specialist who told you that. I could sort of understand a GP coming up with such idiocy, but if it had been an endo, then please, please, question EVERYTHING this guy says. He should go back to med school. Wonder what he was doing when the others were paying attention to the lectures.

Anyway.... that explains it... no wonder your FT3 is slightly over the top on such a low dose. T3 peaks within 2 hours of ingestion. Your "high" FT3 in that case is showing that you are in fact still under- and not over-medicated. If you had not taken your T3 on the morning, your FT3 would have shown quite a low figure.

As for the low ferritin....if this Endo feels that you should get iron injections and the Haemo won't oblige (why not, btw?), what is stopping the endo from giving them to you? or your GP ? Is this a case of `pass the parcel'? There must be a way of getting the iron level up in patient who has no success with oral supplementation. Are you confident that the bunch of doctors who are looking after you each know what they are doing? It sounds like a strange sort of set-up with them all pulling in different directions....

Well, I for one am looking forward to hearing what the Endo will make of your "true" results.... hmmmmm

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

What is the difference between 'TSH suppressive dose of thyroid hormones' and

'T4 replacement'? I'm confused!

[Guest guest]

Point your GP in the direction of the British Thyroid

Association's web site and then tell him to go to their 'Guidelines' and to

read their recommendations about thyroid testing: http://www.british-thyroid-association.org/info-for-patients/Docs/bta_patient_hypothyroidism.pdf

" Measurement of serum T4 or T3 levels

on their own are not recommended for

monitoring thyroid hormone replacement in

primary hypothyroidism, as the levels

may change through the day after ingestion

of a tablet and the levels do not reflect

the tissue response to thyroid hormone in

the way TSH does. For instance, if a

patient omits thyroxine tablets for a few

weeks the TSH levels will rise, but the FT4

level will be normal if the patient then

remembers to take thyroxine for a day or two

before

attending clinic.

Also, Professor Weetman (former President of the BTA) gave

evidence at the GMC as their 'expert witness'

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/skinner_hearing_transcripts.php

In

the Official Transcript – Day 4 – page 13.

Q

- I

was going to come on, if we have finished that area, to dealing with using T3

andT4 as a test once the patient is on thyroxine?

A - The problem with

using free T4 measurements if a patient is taking thyroxine is

that

the level fluctuate after taking thyroxine treatment. Therefore, within the few hours after ingestion there can be a ten or fifteen per cent

level difference in level compared to twelve to twenty

four hours after ingestion. The second problem

which is frequently encountered by endocrinologists is that the patients may

not adhere to their treatment very strictly and may remember to take a tablet

before a blood test which will give them normal T4 levels and might have

omitted their tablets over the preceding weeks. Because of the sensitivity of

the pituitary that can be identified by raised TSH but a normal free T4.

Therefore, TSH, because it is measuring a response of the body, in this case

the pituitary gland, it is by far the best measure of the nature and degree of

thyroid hormone replacement.

Please note how skilfully Prof Weetman skirts

around the issue of the T3 ..... Although he does not say it in such

words, he is insinuating that the correct level for measuring FT4 is 12 to

24 hours after ingestion. And to be on the safe side (and not risk

our doctors to reduce our medication) - on this forum it is generally

advised to lay off the pills for at least 24 hours.

Tell them

that you will NOT be taking your thyroid hormone replacement on the morning you

have your blood drawn, and that if they have a problem with that, they should

take this up with the British Thyroid Association.

Luv - Sheila

They were insistent that I take my

meds before the test to avoid a false high result. Unmoved by evidence

Sheila provided to say I should not (never have before incidentally)

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[Guest guest]

This should help explain Helen http://www.drlowe.com/QandA/askdrlowe/heart.htm

- it will also explain how wrong endocrinology is in telling their patients

that a suppressed TSH will result in Atrial fibrillation etc.

Luv - Sheila

What is the difference between 'TSH suppressive

dose of thyroid hormones' and 'T4 replacement'? I'm confused!

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