Guest guest Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 HI On clicking the E-PETITION, all thats there is an error. On signing the online petition there is a catch as they want you to donate money, so beware. Kathleen > > > > Hieveryone, > > Have you signed this e-petition to save the NHS from Privatisation? here > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 The NHS needs a good shake, and I don't fear the shake up quite as much as I fear the future with the NHS operating as it does now. I have not had any assistance with my thyroid, only hassle, and I am approaching old age with horror and fear at the stories we hear about the 'care' we can expect. So I won't be signing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'd want more information about what the bill was for, and the pros and cons. If this is to do with handing more power to GPs, then it does concern me that no one will get anything if 'they' are in charge. Already, it is hard to get past the GPs. I am speaking as someone who has had to spend a lot of money privately, in order to get well. How would it work if PCT trusts were scrapped, how would we complain then? I haven't made up my mind one way or the other. Chris http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17169519 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-leader-ed-miliband-writes-743776 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/9104898/A-vote-of-confidence.html http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/healthandsocialcare.html Summary of the Bill The Bill proposes to create an independent NHS Board, promote patient choice, and to reduce NHS administration costs. Key areas establishes an independent NHS Board to allocate resources and provide commissioning guidance increases GPs' powers to commission services on behalf of their patients strengthens the role of the Care Quality Commission develops Monitor, the body that currently regulates NHS foundation trusts, into an economic regulator to oversee aspects of access and competition in the NHS cuts the number of health bodies to help meet the Government's commitment to cut NHS administration costs by a third, including abolishing Primary Care Trusts and Strategic Health Authorities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Afraid that I didn't sign it either Chris. I agree with your reasons. Luv - Sheila The NHS needs a good shake, and I don't fear the shake up quite as much as I fear the future with the NHS operating as it does now. I have not had any assistance with my thyroid, only hassle, and I am approaching old age with horror and fear at the stories we hear about the 'care' we can expect. So I won't be signing! No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4832 - Release Date: 02/25/12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nor me after hearing that a poor chap died choking to death and they said pull yourself together – just like us –pull yourself together !!! The sooner the medical profession are held responsible the better Regards Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 oh that sounds familiar. stopping breathing 90 times an hour, waking gasping for breath with the taste of vomit in my mouth. all symptoms of depression and stress! don't argue with me, i've been doing the job 20 years! there's no point you having therapy as you are arguing with me! i know all the signs! turned out to be severe sleep apnoea .... (and the nurse who told me i was just stressed died suddenly about a year later - i'm not sure from untreated sleep apnoea, or what...) > > Nor me after hearing that a poor chap died choking to death and they said > pull yourself together - just like us -pull yourself together !!! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Nor me after the years of reading about the ill treatment of the elderly and infirm. Not to mention the ill, or non-treatemnt of thyroid sufferers! > > oh that sounds familiar. stopping breathing 90 times an hour, waking gasping for breath with the taste of vomit in my mouth. > (and the nurse who told me i was just stressed died suddenly about a year later - i'm not sure from untreated sleep apnoea, or what...) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Nick clegg was on 'daybreak' this morning talking about the reforms. i believe he said something like GPs often find phsyical problems are caused by mental health problems.... now, where have we heard that before! but apparently these reforms could mean GPs can spend more on mental health issues if they feel the need.... chris > > > > Nor me after the years of reading about the ill treatment of the elderly and infirm. Not to mention the ill, or non-treatemnt of thyroid sufferers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 The reason for us being told we have a mental problem is lack of diagnostic skills by the Doctor, and in turn its all about money and the reason now that attracts a Doctor to the medical profession. The Government too are left to foot the bill for their mistakes that are getting more and more. Its also been in the news that many of these antisychotic drugs cause a patient to get worse and death in some cases, and the elderly are already suffering from ill treatment in hospitals and homes, and even by their families. I have also seen that even a shy child is going to be classified as having a mental condition, so can you imagine what harm will be done to children. Would it be safer for me to remain a " deluded hypochondriac " If the NHS went private would we accept a diagnoses of being mental. A Doctor of this attitude is not going to get many patients on his list, so for a change Doctors will have to work for their money, and will those that lack diagnostic skills get many patients. Patients will not want to waste money on an inaccurate diagnoses, let alone be fobbed off with a whole string of drugs. Kathleen PS- Am I correct in saying that most of us would sooner trust a charity than a GP. > > Nick clegg was on 'daybreak' this morning talking about the reforms. i believe he said something like GPs often find phsyical problems are caused by mental health problems.... > > now, where have we heard that before! > > but apparently these reforms could mean GPs can spend more on mental health issues if they feel the need.... > > chris > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Hi and AllBack from the dark as my laptop was in for repairs (came back faulty so will have to go back!) and saw your question. From what I have gleaned, the NHS will become more bureaucratic with MONITOR, a new Quango, replacing PCTs and SHAs. The Health and Social Care Bill does not protect the NHS from COMPLETE privatisation (this is in Sec 3 of the Health and Social Care Bill, which the LibDems have requested amendments (a total fudge just to show their backbenchers they have some 'clout' before their upcoming Spring Conference). GPs have found out that they have been duped and they will not be holding the purse strings as those made redundant (costing taxpayers £millions) from closed PCTs are been rehired to manage the budget for them as GPs do not have any understanding or expertise. There is nowhere for patients to go to complain should there be a problem with a GP or medical procedure, as the Secretary of State will no longer be responsible, and the Commissioning Groups will have GPs at the helm who will protect their own (I talk from personal experience as the head of the CCG in my area is one of the GPs I am complaining about for misdiagnosis). These GPs are juggling patient care as well as having to answer to a new Quango, MONITOR, who has no knowledge of the complexities of the NHS, and the new Bill has made it even more difficult to understand. It will NOT put patients first and many patients will find that they will have to go to several places for one health problem or even denied treatment - the NHS will be defragmented - and some patients will be forced to pay! This may not be very coherent so I shall offer several links to help everyone understand what the fuss is about. The new Bill is so incredibly complicated that even the Coalition have to be briefed before going into the Commons debates as they do not understand it at all. The bottom line and general consensus, is that reforms ARE necessary, but not THESE reforms - they are a top down reorganisation of the NHS with no mandate and unnecessary and expensive in these times of austerity. I will outline the headings to this link called "Privatisation of the NHS". The seven reasons to worry are:1. Supplier induced demand2. Concern for the greater good3. Trust4. Commodiï¬cation and industrialisation of healthcare5. Root causes of illness6. Choice7. Fragmentation of healthcarehttp://www.bhma.org/media/blog%20and%20news/Privatisation_of_the_NHS_Feb2012.pdf**In the time of writing this (15h00) Dr Graham Winyard of LibDems Health Committee, former Deputy CMO & MD for NHS England, has resigned over the HealthBillMore about NHS privatisation: Compilation of financial and vested interests. here: http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.com/2012/02/nhs-privatisation-compilation-of.htmlThe healthbill will not reduce bureaucracy or give power to clinicians. Part 2. by Corrigan http://www.pauldcorrigan.com/Blog/conservative-party/the-difficulty-with-the-pms-health-and-social-care-bill-narrative-is-that-it-really-needs-to-have-some-relationship-with-the-reality-that-it-is-describing/?wpmp_tp=1A MUST READ.... 8 Myths about the NHS Reforms:http://t1ber1us.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/eight-myths-about-uk-healthcare-and-nhs-reform/CCGs further widen health inequality, analysis showshttp://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/newsarticle-content/-/article_display_list/13331528/ccgs-further-widen-health-inequality-analysis-showsForty of the Lords have financial interests in private healthcare companies.Are the Lords breaking their own rules? Lord Chadlington - Three Lords, One Company and a Democratic Failure. http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.com/2012/02/are-lords-breaking-their-own-rules-lord.html"Patient Power" - here are the comments to this bloghttp://abetternhs.wordpress.com/2012/01/22/power/#comments below:Tess | January 22, 2012 at 10:39 pm | ReplyI will email my GP immediately with your suggested questions! Will let you know their response.Jim Conway | January 23, 2012 at 9:09 am | ReplyHow do you get on the PPG? Great arrticle, cut down on bureaucracy !! I even got lost with the acro'sabetternhs | January 23, 2012 at 9:15 am | ReplyTo join a PPG ask your GP practice if they have one. If not, check the link above to the National Association of Patient Participation groups for advice. Alternatively check LINKs (also above) Blogger (@richardblogger) | January 23, 2012 at 10:30 pm | ReplyI have been contacted by my local PCT a couple of times about the creation of the new CCG – one was looking for "patient champions", which I volunteered for, the other was for lay members of the authorisation board to oversee the authorisation of the CCG. I recognise that the latter is not board members of the final CCG board, but its reasonable to assume that the CCG board would want someone similar.I was seriously under-qualified for the authorisation board. And I mean under-qualified. They were looking for people with "evidence of having carried substantial levels of decision making responsibility at senior levels in organisations" and "the successful candidate may have previous corporate links with the public or charitable sector, or personal contribution by their membership of Trusts, social enterprise boards or advisory bodies".So "lay" means non-medical. Whether such people could be regarded as being a patient representative is another matter.Personally, I would make it a requirement of the lay members to show that they were constantly consulting the public, through attending PPGs and local patient support groups. I think the CCG board must have a direct two-way communication channel with patients, and the lay members are best placed to do this. If I become a "patient champion" I may push for this to be as a policy of the CCG.gpprotest | January 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm | ReplyI am a GP in Tower Hamlets. I am all in favour of patient participation groups. We have a project to set one up. The trouble is that we are so busy with dealing with everyday stuff that there is little time, energy, resources left over for this. But we will keep trying.optimismunfulfilled | February 7, 2012 at 12:38 pm | ReplySorry, I only got notified of this post today. Had some personal experience of a pathfinder CCG, who, guided by the PCT have put together a reference group that is becoming increasingly populated by representatives from organisations. You have to be very pushy indeed as an individual patient to get a look in. So much for Domain 2 then.The duty of the Secretary of State for Health has not been restoredhttp://abetternhs.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/clause-1/A MUST READ:NHS bill: goodbye comprehensive healthcare, hello private insuranceServices are already being pulled in an unannounced, piecemeal way. If the bill passes, the health secretary won't be accountablehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/28/nhs-bill-private-insurance?CMP=twt_guHow the Health and Social Care Bill 2011 would end entitlement to comprehensive health care in Englandhttp://www.allysonpollock.co.uk/administrator/components/com_article/attach/2012-01-24/Lancet_2012_Pollock_HealthAndSocialCareBill2011.pdf Lansley covers up NHS report because it warns costs will 'surge' as a result of his bill. [The FOI Commissioner has requested that this risk register be released but this has now gone to Appeal]http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2012/02/andrew-lansley-covers-up-nhs-report.htmlNHS reform possible without health bill bureaucracy, former government adviser warns PMhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/28/scrap-health-bill-doctor-warns?CMP=twt_guMPs will not debate 'drop the health bill' e-petition [this was signed by more than 162,000 people]http://www.publicservice.co.uk/news_story.asp?id=19006 & utm_source=twitterfeed & utm_medium=twitter These links explain the role of competition which the Bill will allow: (sorry so tired now and brain slowed down so not very well worded)http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1125.pdfhttp://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/members/thepresidentsblog/competitioninthenhs.aspxThe problem is there are so many CONS that the PROS are not even discussed. The whole thing is a right mess!LoveJacquie>> I'd want more information about what the bill was for, and the pros and cons. > > If this is to do with handing more power to GPs, then it does concern me that no one will get anything if 'they' are in charge. Already, it is hard to get past the GPs. I am speaking as someone who has had to spend a lot of money privately, in order to get well. How would it work if PCT trusts were scrapped, how would we complain then?> > I haven't made up my mind one way or the other. > > Chris> > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17169519> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/labour-leader-ed-miliband-writes-743776> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/9104898/A-vote-of-confidence.html> > > http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/healthandsocialcare.html> > Summary of the Bill> > The Bill proposes to create an independent NHS Board, promote patient choice, and to reduce NHS administration costs.> > Key areas> establishes an independent NHS Board to allocate resources and provide commissioning guidance> increases GPs' powers to commission services on behalf of their patients> strengthens the role of the Care Quality Commission> develops Monitor, the body that currently regulates NHS foundation trusts, into an economic regulator to oversee aspects of access and competition in the NHS> cuts the number of health bodies to help meet the Government's commitment to cut NHS administration costs by a third, including abolishing Primary Care Trusts and Strategic Health Authorities> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hi Jacquie Thanks for all the info, very informative! Time will tell, I suppose. Ideally, i think we'd have our own pot of money we could spend and the rude unhelpful doctors would not get much business would they. But I guess this is called 'going private'... chris > > Hi and All > Back from the dark as my laptop was in for repairs (came back faulty so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Unfortunately the whole idea is to privatise the NHS, this will not help us or anyone as it will mean that private companies will hive off the profitable parts of the NHS, (such as professional testing and specialists in hospitals) and the rest will be allowed to go hang. Never forget for one moment that all the condems are interested in is money and how to spend less of it whilst collecting more from people who can't afford to pay. ** Just a point, there were 160,000 signatures on the petition and the condems refused to debate it as it had already been 'over debated'. They intend to push the legislation through regardless of the effect on patients. As I have said before it doesn't matter what the people say the condems will do as they wish and we will all suffer for it. Glynis " Time will tell, I suppose. > > Ideally, i think we'd have our own pot of money we could spend and the rude unhelpful doctors would not get much business would they. But I guess this is called 'going private'... " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Just have to say I find this a really political (and biased) point of view - that no-one else is making. Thought this group was about helping one another, particularly when treatment is so poor from the NHS re. thyroid treament. The NHS needs reform - time will tell if this will help or not, but I really don't think it's helpful to start making political points about it all. Janet > > Unfortunately the whole idea is to privatise the NHS, this will not help us or anyone as it will mean that private companies will hive off the profitable parts of the NHS, (such as professional testing and specialists in hospitals) and the rest will be allowed to go hang. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Generally that's true that we don't discuss politics, but politics comes into everything, don't you think? Are you saying this post should have been censored? This member is not expressing a group opinion, just her own. You have been just as free to put forward your opinion. Miriam > > Unfortunately the whole idea is to privatise the NHS, this will not help us or anyone as it will mean that private companies will hive off the profitable parts of the NHS, (such as professional testing and specialists in hospitals) and the rest will be allowed to go hang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sorry? Biased? Did you never read the tory manifesto? They are doing exactly as they said they would, destroying the NHS!! And political? Yes, well this government have refused to listen to the Royal Colleges of Nursing, & Physicians, not to mention lots of other groups that are complaining they've got it VERY wrong. And this government are doing the fingers in ears blah blah, so yes, I am biased against stupid governments who would rather do the wrong thing just to be seen doing something!! And the 'wait and see' attitude is all they need to succeed!! I hope its not as bad as it sounds but be realistic, do you really think the condems will do anything to help poor or sick people? REALLY? It is my opinion, based on solid information from such sources as the Hansard, available to read any day of your choice on the Parliamentary website. Glynis > Generally that's true that we don't discuss politics, but politics comes into everything, don't you think? Are you saying this post should have been censored? This member is not expressing a group opinion, just her own. You have been just as free to put forward your opinion. > Miriam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hi Miriam, WIll answer your questions butdon't want to go off n a tangent here for the sake of cluttering up the forum and my own limited time. Yes you're right politics does come into manythings and obviously this bill is political. But I did not put my own political views forward aligning myself to a party, ie original poster terms the Govt. 'condems', and talks of (words along the lines) of taking money off people who can't afford it. I just don't think it's relevant to this forum and don't find it helpful. I'm so tied up trying to help my young children back to health and this group, Sheila inparticular has in the short time I've been on it proved such a valuable source of information I'd prefer to continue to focus on that. We have not had gppd experiences with the NHS and that is the point I was trying to make with regard to the bill and reform - I am not saying any one oher poster shouldn't also make their point or be 'censored' with regards to this. Janet > > Generally that's true that we don't discuss politics, but politics comes into everything, don't you think? Are you saying this post should have been censored? This member is not expressing a group opinion, just her own. You have been just as free to put forward your opinion. > Miriam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Please take this discussion to the Chat forum, where you can discuss anything other than thyroid disease. Many thanks Sheila WIll answer your questions butdon't want to go off n a tangent here for the sake of cluttering up the forum and my own limited time. Yes you're right politics does come into manythings and obviously this bill is political. But I did not put my own political views forward aligning myself to a party, ie original poster terms the Govt. 'condems', and talks of (words along the lines) of taking money off people who can't afford it. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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