Re: changing from thyroxine to T3

[Guest guest]

Jen, it will take a while to do this as it takes 8-12 weeks for your T4 to

clear.

The T3 can only be added slowly to avoid issues.

My book was written for people like you and suggest you get it because your endo

is unlikely to know how to determine the right dosage of T3 for you (which ought

to be taken in 3-4 divided doses per day).

The book 'Recovering with T3' may be found in the books section on Amazon or

through the Book Depository. T3 is far more difficult to use than T4 but also

far more effective.

Best wishes,

------

Author of: Recovering with T3 My Journey from Hypothyroidism to Good Health

Using the T3 Thyroid Hormone

My facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/recoveringwitht3

My website: http://recoveringwitht3.com/

>

> Hi,

[Guest guest]

Thanks , I will look into getting your book.

Can I just check - is it dangerous to go straight from taking thyroxine one day

to taking a full dose of T3 the next?

Jen

>

> Jen, it will take a while to do this as it takes 8-12 weeks for your T4 to

clear.

> The T3 can only be added slowly to avoid issues.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Jen, if you are currently well on thyroxine, why, why, why is

your endocrinologist wanting to start you on T3? Can you get hold of your last

blood test results and let us have them please, together with the reference

range for each of the tests done. If your TSH is raised, your free T4 is high

and your free T3 is low in the range, then I can understand him trying this

route.

You must remember that the thyroxine has a half life of around 7

days, but takes approximately 6 weeks to get completely out of your body, so when

you start your T3, you need to do this very slowly, i.e. start at 10mcgs only

and stay of increasing it for 3 to 4 weeks and then increase by another 10mcgs.

You could raise it by another 10mcgs in another 2 to 3 weeks after that and

keep raising in this way until your symptoms (if any) have disappeared.

T3 has a very short half life of 2 days in humans, but it peaks

in the blood a couple or so hours after taking it and the effect starts to

leave your body between 6 to 8 hours, so we recommend splitting the dose. Take

half your dose when you wake, and the other half dose around 2.00p.m. to

3.00p.m.

What was the dose your endocrinologist recommended. Did he

mention whether you should take your T3 on the morning you have your blood

drawn for the test or not. Because it peaks in the blood a couple or so hours

after taking it, we recommend that members do not take any on the morning of

the blood draw, but take it immediately after. The result is likely to show

very high if you have taken it, often frightening the doctor into believing you

are taking too much, and then they want you to lower the dose or stop it.

You might be interested in reading what Dr Peatfield recommends

when starting with T3.

Can you write to me privately and let me know who your

endocrinologist is and which hospital he works at. Send this information to me

privately at [sheila@...] please.

Hope this helps

Luv - Sheila

I am currently well on thyroxine (162.5mcg daily) but my endocrinologist wants

me to try T3. This is a whole other argument and I don't want to get into it!

Basically he is the one who prescribes and I am having a lot of trouble with

other doctors so I need to keep him happy by at least trying this.

He wants me to switch directly from thyroxine to T3 so one day I will take my

thyroxine and the next day I will stop it completely and only take T3. He wants

me to get a blood test after one week on T3 and then if I can tolerate it,

continue on T3 and get another blood test after the second week. I'm well

enough to work at the moment but I'm concerned about the impact this will have

on me. I really can't afford to take any more sick time. I know everyone is

different, but how big an impact is this likely to have on my health? It

normally takes me at least a month to adjust to a new thyroxine dose.

1 of 1 File(s)

HOW TO TREAT USING T3.doc

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

It is all a big mess. You know the situation with my GP and my endo is scared of

her. His specialism is diabetes and he doesn't seem to know a huge amount

outside of " normal " thyroid cases. He is trying to find some magic reason as to

why I become well on thyroxine despite having blood results outside the normal

range. My last blood results on thyroxine were:

TSH: 0.02 (0.35 - 3.5)

T3: 6

T4: 22

i don't have the reference ranges for T3 or T4 on me at the moment, but I know

the upper end of the T3 one is 6 and that i am just above the upper end of the

T4 one.

The endo has now decided that i have a conversion problem. Really he is

desperate for my T4 to be within range, so he wants me to take T3 only so that

my T4 will drop to be within range and my T3 will be within range too. I suspect

this will not happen!! His heart is in the right place as he desperarely wants

to keep everybody (i.e. the GP) happy but it will just never happen. He says if

the T3 doesn't work out then I can go back to my thyroxine.

His suggested dose was 60mcg/daily - so 20mcg 3x a day. He didn't mention about

whether to take it on the morning of my test or not.

Jen

>

> Jen, if you are currently well on thyroxine, why, why, why is your

> endocrinologist wanting to start you on T3? Can you get hold of your last

> blood test results and let us have them please, together with the r

moderated. old messages clipped

[Guest guest]

It depends on what you call a " full dose " . You need to

start slowly, i.e. 10mgs daily and increase this in a couple of weeks of no

adverse reactions, by another 10mcgs. Add another 10mcgs in 3 to 4 weeks and

then increase by another 10mcgs in another 3 weeks. You need to get the

thyroxine out of your system (this can take up to 6 to 8 weeks). If, at any time,

you start to get symptoms of hyperthyroidism, palpitations, sweating,

dizziness, generally spaced out etc etc. then don't take anymore T3 that day,

and the following day, go back onto the dose you were on the previous day. This

is how you find the dose that suits your body best.

Luv - Sheila

Thanks , I will look into getting your book.

Can I just check - is it dangerous to go straight from taking thyroxine one day

to taking a full dose of T3 the next?

Jen

No

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[Guest guest]

Jen

You absolutely don't need to change your current regime if it's suiting you.

Take the Dr Toft book into the endo, or print off the pulse article which is in

the files, (and also by A Toft).

He says that on T4, if your free t4 goes over range, but t3 in range then you

are fine if you feel fine. (something like that)

There is no reason in the world to change the doseage of t4 and start t3.. You

can convert fine and are risking all sorts of problems going on to a large dose

of T3.

DO NOT be part of the endocrinologists learning experiment. Let him practice on

himself to see what too much unneeded t3 does not play around with your health!

Grrrrrrr....

I could go on, but it will turn in to a rant.....

x

>

> Hi Sheila,

>

> It is all a big mess. You know the situation with my GP and my endo is scared

of her.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

We did take the Toft book in but he didn't believe it!! He has already asked my

boyfriend to do a " blinded trial " on me with my thyroxine dosage!

Jen

>

> Jen

>

> You absolutely don't need to change your current regime if it's suiting you.

Take the Dr Toft book into the endo, or print off the pulse article which is in

the files, (and also by A Toft).

>

[Guest guest]

>> We did take the Toft book in but he didn't believe it!! He has already asked my boyfriend to do a "blinded trial" on me with my thyroxine dosage!

Hi Jen,

This doctor sounds like an egomaniac. Never thought I would say/think that about a doctor who is in favour of prescribing T3....

If a treatment works and makes you well, then stick with it. Do not allow anyone to bully into a treatment that would very likely upset your health. You feel well on your current regime, your blood results look perfectly fine - so what else does he want?

It's your body, your life - your decision !.... to suggest a "blind trial" against the wishes of the patient is an idiotic suggestion to be made by an endocrinologist.... wonder what the GMC would have to say about that - but then again, that is probably perfectly acceptable coming from a well respected member of the medical establishment !!!!!!!!!

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Thanks .

The problem is that he is the one issuing my thyroxine prescription (my GP

won't) so I kind of need to keep him happy! It is a ridiculous situation but in

a weird way, he is the only one on my side even if he has a funny way of showing

it! I think I will have to speak to him and try and tell him my concerns about

T3. He has these massive issues with my T4 being above the top of the range, but

that's the only way I feel well.

Jen

>

>

[Guest guest]

If the endo is too stupid to see that you are ok, and he doesn't believe the Dr

Toft stuff, (dr Toft has an impeccable pedigree although he thinks NT is made

by demons burning in vats of slime or something:) ) then have him challenge

Dr Toft.

DONT let him experiment on you with T3, and all the nonsense about getting your

boyfriend to run a trial is just that: nonsense. I would run a mile from him,

and his silly uneducated experimentation.

And whilst you're at it, put in a complaint to the GMC about him. ly he

just sounds plain dangerous. He sounds like the sort of person who was working

in the concentration camps in WW2 doing wierd experiments on prisoners.

If your doctor won't prescribe but you feel better, change doctors or just buy

your own meds. Thyroxine is so cheap it's practically free and it's perfectly

legal to buy in your own meds.

Don't pander to this idiot.... Run Run Run!!!!!

I am not against the use of T3, and in fact have taken it for may years.....

but if you don't need it and a dose of 60mcg is being pushed upon you it's

plain dangerous. In fact it makes me wonder if this is an attempt to

discredit the use of T3 forever.... Killing off a few patients would raise

concerns about the safety of T3 so it could be banned.

.

. x

>

> Thanks .

>

> The problem is that he is the one issuing my thyroxine prescription (my GP

won't) so I kind of need to keep him happy!

[Guest guest]

Jen,

I'm very concerned by the actions of this endocrinologist. Sheila who runs this

group isn't anywhere near her computer today, but I've just spoken with her and

she too is very concerned by his actions. Can you send me his name and location

please and we'll see if we know anything about him. Click on reply and then

select my email address from the drop down menu.......

Thank you

(moderator)

[Guest guest]

Jen, did the endocrinologist explain to your boyfriend exactly how

he wanted him to perform this " blinded trial " ? If so, do tell!

Luv - Sheila

Hi,

We did take the Toft book in but he didn't believe it!! He has already asked my

boyfriend to do a " blinded trial " on me with my thyroxine dosage!

Jen

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen,

I just want to add my voice to say please don't feel under pressure to change

your meds if you feel fine on the thyroxine. Only you know what you really feel

like and it sounds to me as if you are being bullied in a covert way. Your

boyfriend being asked to treat you like a lab subject by the endo is surely

unethical, unprofessional as well as potentially medically unsafe and also

sounds pointless.

I understand that dealing with the NHS often is very difficult and people feel

powerless but you are still living in a democracy and are an adult so you cannot

be forced to take treatment which you don't feel that you need. If your GP is a

scary monster why don't you change to another practice?

Or if you don't feel up to taking on the medics - purchase your thyroxine from

abroad and sidestep the issue.

We always have choices but it's difficult when we feel weak to see what they

are.

My heart goes out to you in your situation but it's good to see how much

informed support you have on this site.

Finola

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

He wanted my boyfriend to give me 150mcg one week and 100mcg another week and

see if I noticed a difference.

Jen

>

> Jen, did the endocrinologist explain to your boyfriend exactly how he wanted

> him to perform this " blinded trial " ? If so, do tell!

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

> Hi,

>

> We did take the Toft book in but he didn't believe it!! He has already asked

> my boyfriend to do a " blinded trial " on me with my thyroxine dosage!

>

> Jen

>

[Guest guest]

He sounds rubbish, so does your GP.

Firstly, taking T3 may make your t4 go below range. It may also make your T3

over the range. If your GP is moaning about a high T4, then won't she moan

about a high T3, and a low T4?

And as for going from 162.5 to 150, to 100, well what's going on there? How can

he be chopping and changing your dose, given that it'll take weeks for the new

dose to stabilise? Why can't he lower it 150 (or 155) and see how you feel, not

then drop it by what, over 30% in a week?

Why is it all or nothing? All T4, or all T3? Why not slightly less T4, or less

t4 and a bit of T3? I would not want to go on all T3, not if i was feeling ok

on what i was taking.

I wouldn't put up with crap treatment. I would complain about your GP and your

endo if he doens't stop this.

It is disgraceful - you say you feel well, so there is no reason to change

anything.

I am appalled!

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi jen,

I too am appalled at the way you are being treated - like a child making up how

you feel to get what you want - or someone with no capacity to make decisions

about your health - so ask the partner to be involved; how did he feel being

asked to take control of your meds?

I am sure there are poor ethics involved here and I would be complaining to the

PALS associated with this particular hospital/Trust.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

I think the question was meant to be 'How did he expect your boyfriend to do the

testing? Sneakily by putting it in your food, or tying you down and forcing down

your throat?

2

>

> Hi Sheila,

>

> He wanted my boyfriend to give me 150mcg one week and 100mcg another week and

see if I noticed a difference.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I think he wanted my boyfriend to just give me 2 tablets each day - either 2

50mcg ones or one 100mcg tablet and one 50mcg tablet. He said to make it as

scientific as we could!

Jen

>

> I think the question was meant to be 'How did he expect your boyfriend to do

the testing? Sneakily by putting it in your food, or tying you down and forcing

down your throat?

>

> 2

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

> I think he wanted my boyfriend to just give me 2 tablets each day - either 2 50mcg ones or one 100mcg tablet and one 50mcg tablet. He said to make it as scientific as we could!

Hi Jen,

Perhaps this endo "means well", but he is a fool (not to use the word 'idiot') and does not understand hypothyroidism and he should not be let loose onto unsuspecting patients. There is nothing "scientific" about his suggestions. For a start I believe the 50 mcg and 100 mcg tablets are different sizes from what I remember from my Levo days... so you would have to close your eyes as well when you are "given" your medication.... and all the silliness of this "experiment" aside, why should you be treated like a 5 year old child ???? What is he going to "prove" with such a stupid experiment? All it would do is upset your wellbeing and throw you back to square one.

I do hear what you are saying about him 'being on your side', but please take everything he says with a pinch of salt. Do not get taken in by this story about him being 'scared' of your GP - it's an act.... If he were the shy retiring type, he would not have become an endo in the first place. Specialists become specialists because they are either extremely interested in their subject (and such doctors become usually pretty knowledgeable – and your endo clearly isn't), or they are ego-driven; and an ego-driven endo is not scared of a mere GP. So I don't know what he is playing at, but he is playing a dangerous game at your expense.

Since you are feeling well on your current dosage, stick with it, and stand up to endo and GP alike. Tell them that you have no intention of changing your medication – you are happy that your lab results look fine as they are, you are feeling well and that is the end of it. If you confidently tell them this to their faces, they are likely to back down – bullies always do. If not, complain about both their behaviour in writing.... THEN they will back down, I assure you.

Warm wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all your help on this - sorry for

the late reply but I have been away on holiday.

As for my partner, he was not happy with the idea at all. He also wasn't happy

for me to take T3 (he has read a LOT about everything to do with hypothyroidism

- i'm sure he knows more than the endo!) which is the main reason I ended up

posting on here.

I have changed GP so maybe my new one will be more willing to listen to the

endo/Dr S and will prescribe my thyroxine which might make things a bit better.

I'm due to see the endo again next month anyway so I'll see what he has to say!!

Thanks again,

Jen

>

>

> Hi jen,

>

> I too am appalled at the way you are being treated - like a child making up

how you feel to get what you want - or someone with no capacity to make

decisions about your health - so ask the partner to be involved; how did he feel

being asked to take control of your meds?

>

> I am sure there are poor ethics involved here and I would be complaining to

the PALS associated with this particular hospital/Trust.

>

> Stacey

>