Re: HC early in the morning or last thing at night

[Guest guest]

Hi there Alison,

I know exactly how you feel – been there –

done it – unfortunately bought the T shirt. I must admit I haven’t

managed to read the whole thread of what you have been saying – sorry about

that – but I gather you have ME – have you been tested for

Lupus? Don’t be frightened by this remark as often thyroid/adrenals

and Lupus go together – although I am still convinced Lupus is an adrenal

issue.

I used to get exhausted just by talking (with low

adrenals the throat and voice are affected in some people) – my adrenals

would be shot watching a film that had something in it that distressed me –

and I even felt my adrenals emit cortisol (the stress cortisol !) because

what I was watching was distressing me but the funny thing is I didn’t

think it was distressing me - but my body thought differently – if I

heard anything on the radio say about an earthquake or something I would

immediately break out into a sweat or over my body –just goes to

show you how your emotions affect the body – I am only going into this

detail because I want you to understand that I do understand. It is awful

!!!

If it helps –I was the same and I am now much

much better – I am on a steroid – I am on ERFA and take numerous

supplements as the steroids deplete even further Vitamin A, D and zinc etc.

What I would like to say is that HC is a very

dangerous component that should not be taken lightly – whilst it does me

good and is keeping my symptoms at bay I do not want to increase it any further

than my current medication. HC in particular can cause depression,

anxiety and even paranoia and I believe less is more in some instances.

If I could explain and use as a example – when you

are deficient in Vitamin B – you can get various symptoms – say listlessness,

irritable, tearful etc. etc. – taking the deficient vitamin makes you

feel good and gives your body what it needs – however did you know that

if you take it over a long period of time and in a high enough dose –

your symptoms would come back – so what I am trying to say is that you

need to balance what you are taking and not necessarily keep upping the doses

(unless you Dr tells you too of course.) When low in thyroid hormone your

hair may fall out – when you are hyper your hair will fall out – so

it is a delicate balancing act.

I think the main thing I learnt the hard way was that

low oestrogen was causing me a big issue – I had completely forgotten

that oestrogen is an adrenal hormone and it was actually oestrogen that was not

getting through to my body that was giving me quite severe symptoms. I

was taking oestrogen but without testosterone and progesterone it wasn’t

getting through.

I would suggest if you are able to get your hormones

tested and see if your adrenal hormones are low – oestrogen feeds the

adrenals and helps them work properly.

Make sure you Vitamin D levels are optimal as this

will help make some of the hormones you need.

I hope this helps a little – Alison – I am

sorry I can’t be of more help

Best wishes

Mandy

[Guest guest]

Hi there, I thought it meant too much – as cortisols

rhythm peaks at 4.00 a.m. so if you are waking up then you are producing too

much and it is overstimulating you to wake early.

When this happens to me I know I have had a bad day

stress wise !!!

Best wishes

Mandy

[Guest guest]

Sorry just read about the DHEA - this sounds like it

is not suiting you.

If you take something and something changes –

think what have I done recently that has changed – DHEA !

Regards

Mandy

[Guest guest]

Well, I shall keep fingers crossed for you tomorrow too!Couldn't help but smile at the mention of panic attacks followed by cigarettes - this is familiar to me too. Let's hope you have something nicer than the panic attacks for breakfast ) Best, Alison>> Thanks Alison, we'll see what happens tomorrow though i don't want to jinx it.> > whatever will i do in the morning if i don't have my usual panic attack for breakfast, and 10 cigarettes after to calm it all down? :-| i can only think all that adrenaline's been so bad for my healht, i have had this problem for years.

[Guest guest]

What do you do about this Mandy. I too am one that wakes at

4.30a.m. on most days. I only really get a decent nights sleep if I take 3mgs

Melatonin.

Luv - Sheila

Hi there, I

thought it meant too much – as cortisols rhythm peaks at 4.00 a.m. so if

you are waking up then you are producing too much and it is overstimulating you

to wake early.

When this happens to

me I know I have had a bad day stress wise !!!

Best wishes

Mandy

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[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

have you thought about trying the sublingual melatonin - biotonin (google it to

find where sells it)? I find it works well for me. it's the one dr hertoghe

reccomended. i take 0.2mg. because it's sublingual it works more efficiently i

think.

chris

>

> What do you do about this Mandy. I too am one that wakes at 4.30a.m. on most

> days. I only really get a decent nights sleep if I take 3mgs Melatonin.

[Guest guest]

I will have a look at that - many thanks for this

suggestion - but come on, don't keep us all in suspension, we are waiting to

hear how you got on with your early dose of T3 this morning, or did the alarm

not go off. Please say it's good news again.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila

have you thought about trying the sublingual melatonin - biotonin (google it to

find where sells it)? I find it works well for me. it's the one dr hertoghe

reccomended. i take 0.2mg. because it's sublingual it works more efficiently i

think.

chris

>

> What do you do about this Mandy. I too am one that wakes at 4.30a.m. on

most

> days. I only really get a decent nights sleep if I take 3mgs Melatonin.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Mandy and Thanks so much for your advice - it's a huge help knowing people are out there who understand - especially as I'm so isolated.Mandy - how long did it take you to improve?I've been like this for 2 years now - although I've had several crashes along the way.It's looking increasingly as though I should get more tests done. The trouble is the endocrinologist locally won't see me as I've been diagnosed with m.e. and had an ok short synacthen test.Will my G.P. do these extra tests?Could I persuade the NHS to fund me to have an appointment with Dr Hertoghe I wonder?If I ask for more tests, what do I ask for?DHEA, Oestrogen - what else is important? - apart from the vitamins and iron which I have already had done.I'm very aware of the risks of HC. I'm currently on 45 HC (or equivalent with prednislone) and 2 tabs Florinef.I've been taking it for 9 months now. I also take potassium, calcium, Dr Myhill's minerals and vitamin supplements, oh also NAX.The trouble is, I can feel it's just not getting through. The smallest thing puts me back so I think it's too early to drop the dose though I certainly don't want to increase it. I think the m.e. diagnosis is a red herring, btw. My eye lashes fell out - great clumps.Thanks again for your advise - sorry I'm hijacking your post. How did you get on today?Best wishes, Alison

[Guest guest]

Hello Alison

Well today seemed better, too, though I felt tired because of something I took

last night to help with stress (lemon balm). No major stress reaction. Though,

i wondered if i was going hyperthyroid and didn't take my NDT this morning

because of it. thoughts have gone very slow now so i've just taken it. to

complicate matters i also feel hot. though have been working in a horrible hot

office. my blood sugar has been better, which is quite a big thing for me. i

am wondering if taking the HC early has stopped an overproduction of adrenaline,

helping other things, including blood sugar and urge to over eat on junk. I

also wonder if i'm more tired because of having less adrenaline, now?

what other tests have you had done?

..

> and had an ok short synacthen test.Will my G.P. do these extra

> tests?Could I persuade the NHS to fund me to have an appointment with Dr

> Hertoghe I wonder?

I doubt it, though I gather he will work with doctors if they contact him (don't

know if there's a charge - you could always email them secretary@...).

whereabouts in the country are you?

>If I ask for more tests, what do I ask for?

Firstly, I ask you what are your symptoms? what do they match? This gives us a

start point. I don't think people focus on symptoms enough. yes, they can be

generic and cross over, but they do give us clues, both for hormones and

vitamins.

http://www.hertoghe.eu/patients/pdf/All%20hormones%20deficiencies%20tests.pdf

For more extensive information, please consult Dr Hertoghe's book, there's a lot

more info in there. I don't know if Sheila has a lending copy?

http://blog.saravanan.org/?p=40

http://www.hertoghe.eu/patients/pdf/All%20vitamins%20deficiency%20tests.pdf

For me, certain hormones did give certain symptoms, which matched certain blood

test results. This is why I keep mentioning it. It's not going to be perfect

but can give us a clue.

>DHEA,

> Oestrogen - what else is important? - apart from the vitamins and iron

> which I have already had done.

I don't know what the NHS test for. DHEA, estrogen, progesterone, pregnenolone

would be good. aldosterone. growth hormone and IGF-1 (with IGFBP3) - this could

be important. I understand growth hormone releases IGF1 but too much IGFBP3

will bind this making it not much use. I wonder what your cortisol binding

globulin (CBG) levels are - they can be too high in hypothyroidism (and other

conditions), making you have less free cortisol. have you had vitamin A tested?

have you had any tests for inflammation in your body? Candida?

did you ever have a 24 hr urinary free cortisol test?

> I'm very aware of the risks of HC. I'm currently on 45 HC (or equivalent

> with prednislone) and 2 tabs Florinef.I've been taking it for 9 months

> now. I also take potassium, calcium, Dr Myhill's minerals and vitamin

> supplements, oh also NAX.The trouble is, I can feel it's just not

> getting through. The smallest thing puts me back so I think it's too

> early to drop the dose though I certainly don't want to increase it.

Are you sure you're not on too much? Too much can sometimes give the symptoms

of not enough? Again I do wonder about the lack of DHEA to counter the

catabolic effects (sorry to keep going on about it but then again if 45mg is

what you take until you can get help then..)

i would start by looking at symptoms (what are they) and seeing if anything has

helped in the past.

>Thanks again for your advise - sorry I'm hijacking your post

it's ok, i hadn't noticed ;-) seriously, please don't apologise, it looks

like i may be starting to improve with my early morning cortisol dosing. Hijack

away and we'll try to help :-)

best regards

chris

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

Just wanted to ask, did you start taking DHEA and pregnenolone at the same time?

just wondering if it was the dual affect of these or if you would have seen an

improvement with just the DHEA alone. Reason I ask is that I've been on HC for

about 15mths (currently 30mg) still struggling to return to good health and have

been wondering if some of my shakiness might be due to weak muscles rather than

always low cortisol, you know if you're unfit and do crunches you shake like

mad, that sort of thing, and if DHEA might be of help to me, when I first did my

saliva test my DHEA level was indeed low, but did not supplement for the caveat

it would further lower my cortisol. Anyway my muscles are nowhere near as

strong as they used to be (and are extremely easily fatigued and take ages to

recover), but is that because of the catabolic effects of HC or because I don't

use them (I can't do any exercise, though I would love to as I enjoy it)

Thanks

Sandie

>

>

>

> Not to labour the point too much but I felt bad on hc alone without dhea.

Pregnenolone helped too.

>

> Chris

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

HI Alison,

It took me a while but I got there and it can’t

be rushed – I am a bit concerned that you are taking so much HC –

who are you under who is guiding you on this. What I was trying to

explain is that sometimes you can keep taking more and more of a substance but

you will not get anywhere. The more you take the more you will drop your

adrenals down – HC depletes oestrogen and I believe your issues could be

more oestrogen related. Magnesium is also for adrenal support. How

much calcium are you taking and why – you may not need it and it could be

making your blood too thickened as you do not have enough magnesium which

dilutes the harmful effects of calcium. It could be laying down in your

kidneys which WILL make you feel unwell.

No the NHS will not fund a trip to Brussels I’m afraid.

I am not sure if you have already told me this but

who are you under for your medical treatment is it Dr P – by the way I

also had a short senacten test that said I was OK but I wasn’t I needed

cortisol as my muscles completely collapsed and I became doubly incontinent

which was dreadful – I did not have enough cortisol for muscle function.

Can I just point out as a kidney patient too that I

think you may be taking too much for your body at the moment – it may be

that you are crashing due to your kidney function/liver being unable to cope

with everything you are throwing at it. I would also ask your

GP to test you for Syndrome (I had this ) and it is called Sticky Blood

syndrome as well as – you need to ask for an Anti-Phospholipid Antibody Syndrome test – it is a shot in the

dark but worth a shot to see if anything does show up.

To give you adrenals a kick try fresh lemon juice in a

glass of water- watch your teeth though and rinse mouth out afterwards as it

can ruin the dentine/enamel of your teeth. Also do not drink on an empty

stomach.

Hope this helps

Mandy

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

The problem with this silly illness is that it could

be this it could be that as you know only too well……………like

when you are taking care of plants – if the leaves go brown it can be too

much water or too little water etc. etc.

Because I had such a multi issue illness –

hashi’s/adrenal issues/Lupus/kidney patient/ Syndrome and serious

malabsorption issues - so bad I was diagnosed with malnutrition even though I

was double my size in weight – I can only tell you my experience of 15+

years of getting to where I am now.

When I first got ill – for the first time in my

life I could not sleep – that was low thyroid hormone – then low

oestrogen did the same but now I am more balanced I do notice that if I have

been upset in the evening about anything or something is troubling me –

then my cortisol/adrenaline levels rise.

In my case it is being over stimulated normally getting

het up about something in the early evening or late evening and the cortisol/adrenaline

rush stays in the body - then when the circadian rhythm kicks in to produce

more cortisol – you have too much swimming around being unused and as

cortisol is the hormone that wakes you up in the morning – you will wake

up when the circadian rhythm is doing its work as it is out of balance.

It doesn’t happen to me too much now Sheila but

try to stop working too late into the evening and if you can take magnesium 150

mg of magnesium citrate – this will relax and nullify the excesses of the

bad cortisol that is over produced.

I am sure you know about this site but will leave a

link anyway.

http://www.mgwater.com/benes.shtml#insomnia

But please beware with magnesium – if you are a

thyroid patient undiagnosed and you are ticking over too slowly or have a heart

condition then magnesium possibly in higher does than I have recommended - you

can get respiratory depression and it can be dangerous if you are susceptible

to these issues – i.e. don’t give to .

Hope this helps Sheila

Best wishes for a good night’s sleep !!

Mandy

[Guest guest]

hi Mandy, thanks for all your input - here are some answers-> It took me a while but I got there and it can't be rushed - I am a bit> concerned that you are taking so much HC - who are you under who is guiding> you on this.  I'm under Dr P. I'd like to be on less but if I was I wouldn't be able to talk on the phone, have a bath everyday, make my bed, etc, etc - so in order to have some sort of independence I'm on this dose.What I was trying to explain is that sometimes you can keep> taking more and more of a substance but you will not get anywhere. The more> you take the more you will drop your adrenals down - HC depletes oestrogen> and I believe your issues could be more oestrogen related. Magnesium is> also for adrenal support. How much calcium are you taking and why - you may> not need it I'm taking 1200 calcium as this is the RDA. I have no dairy in my diet in order to keep candida at bay. So I'm doing this in order to minimise risk of osteoporosis.I've done Dr Hertoghe's questionnaire for hormones - sent it and I came out as probable deficiency in cortisol (this was the highest score) and possible deficiency oestrogen. I am post menopause so it would be highly likely. Just can't afford the expertise at the mo.and it could be making your blood too thickened as you do not> have enough magnesium which dilutes the harmful effects of calcium. It> could be laying down in your kidneys which WILL make you feel unwell.  It's not that I feel unwell so much - I was like this before taking all the medications and supplements. It's just that I can't do anything.> Can I just point out as a kidney patient too that I think you may be taking> too much for your body at the moment - it may be that you are crashing due> to your kidney function/liver being unable to cope with everything you areWhat would you suggest I take out? I think it's too soon to reduce HC but I could stop prednisolone as I believe this is quite heavy on the liver.> To give you adrenals a kick try fresh lemon juice in a glass of water- watch> your teeth though and rinse mouth out afterwards as it can ruin the> dentine/enamel of your teeth. Also do not drink on an empty stomach.I have lemon with every meal to help absorption and digestion and to reduce acidity of stomach.When you say drink do you mean alcohol? I wish )) I'd love a glass of wine but can't take it because of sugar content.> > Hope this helps>Many thanks, Mandy

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris> > Well today seemed better, too, though I felt tired because of something I took last night to help with stress (lemon balm).  I'm really glad - No major stress reaction. Though, i wondered if i was going hyperthyroid and didn't take my NDT this morning because of it. thoughts have gone very slow now so i've just taken it. to complicate matters i also feel hot. though have been working in a horrible hot office. my blood sugar has been better, which is quite a big thing for me. i am wondering if taking the HC early has stopped an overproduction of adrenaline, helping other things, including blood sugar and urge to over eat on junk. I also wonder if i'm more tired because of having less adrenaline, now?That's interesting about the tiredness. When I start feeling tired (sleepy tired), it seems to be a sign that I'm recovering from a crash - my body starts to be less wired and a bit more relaxed.> what other tests have you had done?> All the usual - saliva cortisol - alarmingly low results on cortisol but okay on DHEA, thyroid urine - slightly low (I am on T3), my iron, and vits are all ok, not candida though I know that's lurking> whereabouts in the country are you? Gloucestershire> > Firstly, I ask you what are your symptoms? what do they match? This gives us a start point. I don't think people focus on symptoms enough. yes, they can be generic and cross over, but they do give us clues, both for hormones and vitamins. > Thanks for the Hertoghe questionnaire link which I've done:I came out highest on cortisol score 27 - in spite of being on 45mg cortisone.Borderline probable/possible deficiencies were DHEA, PregnenolonePossible deficiencies: GHD, aldosterone, oestrogen, progesteroneAll a bit confusing - so I don't know where this leaves me.> For me, certain hormones did give certain symptoms, which matched certain blood test results. This is why I keep mentioning it. It's not going to be perfect but can give us a clue.> > I don't know what the NHS test for. DHEA, estrogen, progesterone, pregnenolone would be good. aldosterone. growth hormone and IGF-1 (with IGFBP3) - this could be important. I understand growth hormone releases IGF1 but too much IGFBP3 will bind this making it not much use. I wonder what your cortisol binding globulin (CBG) levels are - they can be too high in hypothyroidism (and other conditions), making you have less free cortisol.  I think my GP would run a mile if I asked her to do these. My only option would be to ask her to refer me to an adrenal specialist on NHS - there are a couple on Sheila's list - however I simply can't travel at the moment so unless someone on the NHS can do a phone appointment it'll be difficulthave you had vitamin A tested?No > > have you had any tests for inflammation in your body? Candida?No> > did you ever have a 24 hr urinary free cortisol test?No> Are you sure you're not on too much? Too much can sometimes give the symptoms of not enough? Again I do wonder about the lack of DHEA to counter the catabolic effects (sorry to keep going on about it but then again if 45mg is what you take until you can get help then..)I'd like to be on less but not sure that now is the time to reduce> > i would start by looking at symptoms (what are they) and seeing if anything has helped in the past.Usually the main symptom I have is a pulling on my back and jaw. This tells me I'm doing too much and I have to stop and rest in bed. If I keep going, that's when I crash and then become very ill and completely bedbound- when I've crashed in the past, the symptoms have been nausea, vomitting, can't move, can't stand loud sound or any sound for that matter, suspected kidney problems, loss of eyelashes.Best wishes Alison

[Guest guest]

Hello Alison

Today i did not have a bad reaction again. I'm a bit unsteady and wary first

thing, but no bad reaction.

but what i had this morning is a very vivid nightmare after eating my peanut

butter sandwich (1slice) on 'genius' bread. i wonder if it's some kind of

allergy? other mornings this week i felt too hot after the sandwich. only one

way to tell, i suppose, if it's the peanut butter/bread.

what's your diet like? are you on low carb? too much insulin may reduce your

response to cortisol.

please advise on your diet...

have you read this:

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/adrenals5.php

chris

[Guest guest]

Hello Sandie

Yes, I did start DHEA and pregnenolone at the same time.

pregnenolone can convert into DHEA, as well as other things? It is the master

hormone, I understand? It has it's own effects though and i believe has some

kind of neurosteroid action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnenolone

Pregnenolone undergoes further steroid metabolism in one of three ways.

Pregnenolone can be converted to progesterone. The critical enzyme step is

two-fold using a 3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and a delta 4-5 isomerase.

The latter transfers the double bond from C5 to C4 on the A ring. Progesterone

is the entry into the delta-4-pathway, resulting in production of 17-hydroxy

progesterone and androstenedione, precursor to testosterone and estrone.

Aldosterone and corticosteroids are also derived from progesterone or its

derivatives.

Pregnenolone can be converted to 17-hydroxy-pregnenolone by the enzyme

17á-hydroxylase (CYP17A1). Using this pathway, termed delta-5 pathway, the next

step is conversion to dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) using a desmolase. DHEA is

the precursor of androstenedione.

Pregnenolone can be converted to androsta-5,16-dien-3 beta-ol by 16-ene

synthetase.

==

> you know if you're unfit and do crunches you shake like mad, that sort of

thing, and if DHEA might be of help to me, when I first did my saliva test my

DHEA level was indeed low, but did not supplement for the caveat it would

further lower my cortisol.

Bear in mind that according to this page on TPA's site, which is taken from The

Hormone Handbook:

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/adrenals5.php

" There are two fundamental contraindications to cortisol supplementation: when

it is not necessary or when it could cause harm. First: Cortisol treatment is

not needed when lab tests are normal. In that case, cortisol treatment will

generally not help and may, on the contrary, cause harm. *****Second, cortisol

treatment – even appropriate replacement doses of cortisol, may cause harm if

the patient does not have sufficient levels of anabolic hormones such as DHEA

and sex hormones to counter cortisol catabolic effects. The catabolic effects of

cortisol can cause excessive breakdown of the tissues of the body, which result

in osteoporosis (loss of bone tissue), skin atrophy (thinning), ecchymosis,

petechia (bruising) and immunosuppression (decrease in immune defences). So the

recommendation is to treat only when necessary and to do it safely with the

smallest effective physiologic doses and with simultaneous correction of any

deficit in anabolic hormones.******* "

I don't agree - based on my limited knowledge, and personal experiences with

DHEA - of taking HC without DHEA, unless medically advised other wise....(and my

knowledge is very limited...! but i know i feel better with DHEA and

pregnenolone)

best regards

chris

>

> Hi Chris

> Just wanted to ask, did you start taking DHEA and pregnenolone at the same

time? just wondering if it was the dual affect of these or if you would have

seen an improvement with just the DHEA alone. Reason I ask is that I've been on

HC for about 15mths (currently 30mg) still struggling to return to good health

and have been wondering if some of my shakiness might be due to weak muscles

rather than always low cortisol, you know if you're unfit and do crunches you

shake like mad, that sort of thing, and if DHEA might be of help to me, when I

first did my saliva test my DHEA level was indeed low, but did not supplement

for the caveat it would further lower my cortisol.

[Guest guest]

> I don't agree - based on my limited knowledge, and personal experiences with

DHEA - of taking HC without DHEA, unless medically advised other wise....(and my

knowledge is very limited...! but i know i feel better with DHEA and

pregnenolone)

I'd add to that that I think people need to get the relevant tests done, and if

they can, work with a practitioner. Any HRT should only be taken in

physiological doses. It could be that adding DHEA made someone feel worse, in

which case it'd make no sense to keep taking it (at least in that dose), but it

might be that it helped? But how would someone know without trying it? (Not

trying it willy nilly of course, but if tests or a practitioner inedicated it

was needed).

Just because someone else feels that DHEA lowers cortisol, I wouldn't take that

as meaning it wouldn't help me. As another example, other people on this board

have had very bad experiences with growth hormone, and couldn't tolerate it. I

had no problems tolerating it, and it helped. But should I not have tried it

just because others have not done well on it?

If DHEA does lower cortisol, perhaps that's a good thing? You don't want too

much of anything, and if you're on a physiological dose of HC, and also taking a

phsyiological dose of DHEA - both of which your body should produce - does it

matter? I think that's the point - trying to get the body's hormones to a state

they 'should' be in. Should your body be in a state where it has optimum

cortisol, but suboptimum DHEA? I suppose it also depends on your viewpoint as

to whether you can heal your adrenals and come off HC.

I followed the 'don't take DHEA' advice and I know i felt much worse without it;

i cannot be sure it was DHEA as I also took pregnenolone at the same time, but

apparently pregnenolone is a no no, too :-)

Best regards

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

This is the one I'm on:

http://www.eurohealthproject.com/hormones/biotonin.html

I take the 0.2mg one. I'm not sure if you might need more if you're used to

3mg? They are normally delivered very quickly.

They do do different strengths. They taste a bit orangey and dissolve under

your tongue. You won't confuse them with sweets though :-)

It was early morning HC, not T3 :-) it does seem to be helping, thanks for

asking

Chris

>

> I will have a look at that - many thanks for this suggestion - but

> come on, don't keep us all in suspension, we are waiting to hear how you got

> on with your early dose of T3 this morning, or did the alarm not go off.

[Guest guest]

Fantastic Chris!Does look like you may have to rethink the peanut butter. Some foods like cheese do induce nightmares. Don't know why.> what's your diet like? are you on low carb? too much insulin may reduce your response to cortisol.My diets pretty good (now) - it used to be terrible before I got ill. Now I'm low GI, no sugars, pretty much no dairy or wheat, lots of water.I eat protein with every meal and also some carbohydrate. Lots of greens, beans for potassium and tomatoes.have you thought of trying protein in the mornings?> have you read this:> > http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/adrenals5.phpHave just read it - very useful. ThanksAlison

[Guest guest]

I remember too that when I used to have sustanon injections, I would feel a bit

funny. Sustanon is a testosterone injection, but its in a peanut oil base. I'd

feel quite peculiar. 2+2?

I don't remember if I asked before but have you considered medrol? It's

reccomended by some for people who burn through hc too fast. I was told to

take 5-10 mg hc with I think 4-6mg medrol. Medrol was way too strong for me. I

was told hc is best for mental function, depression. I seem to need less hc now

with my early morning dose.20mg seems to go much further now. Maybe its an

adrenaline thing.

I was told that people who are very overweight do better on medrol as hc cdoes

something with the fat cells.

Info on medrol:

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 & t=15455

There is a link to the dosing on here in pdf format

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/adrenals5.php

I found vitamin A helpful. It is supposed to help with intestinal problems, or

rather a deficiency is linked to intestinal complaints (as well as other

problems). I read in the stress effect book that intestinal inflammation will

require cortisol to suppress it. When I took slippery elm, l glutamine and ate

less processed food (bacon), I was able to reduce hc from 40mg to 30mg very

quickly . Could you have intestinal, or other inflammation making you need

more cortisol? If you've ever taken an anti inflammatory , have you found you

need less hc etc? Just wondered.

Have you any thoughts on essential oils and inflammation?

Chris

>

> Fantastic Chris!Does look like you may have to rethink the peanut

> butter. Some foods like cheese do induce nightmares. Don't know why.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there Alison,

Thanks for going into detail – first of all I

am not able to say you should cut down your steroids – that is for a

medical practitioner and something that should be undertaken very seriously and

with extreme care as you can experience side effects.

What I do think you could cut out is the 1,200 mg of

calcium which in my opinion is far too high – this could be causing you

issues – it is now thought that osteoporosis is nothing to do with

calcium loss but magnesium loss and personally I believe thyroid and other hormones

are also involved.

If you can manage to get your GP to do a female

hormone profile then I think you may find this could also be an issue.

However in the first instance

I would cut out the calcium and see how you feel –

I think you will better – far better you eat some dairy than overload

with calcium supplements. If I take calcium I feel really ill hence this

is why I suspect this could be your problem.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/too-much-calcium-side-effects.html

Hope this helps

Best wishes,

Mandy

[Guest guest]

HI Alison,

Here is something else you perhaps should see:-

The link is:-

http://www.health-and-natural-healing.com/natural-calcium-supplements.htm

Consequences

of

Too Much Calcium

Are you getting too much calcium? Great importance is placed on this by

the media. We are told over and over that we need more calcium for our bones

and to prevent osteoporosis. But we are not told the facts about calcium

supplements, or that calcium is only part of the picture and one of many

minerals and vitamins that the body needs.

If you take calcium supplements alone, or if you don't have what's needed to

absorb the calcium, this excess calcium leads to elevated blood calcium.

The body

can not absorb more than 500 milligrams of calcium at once so if you take

supplements it is important to spread your calcium consumption over the day.

When taking a calcium

supplement ensure that it is easily absorbed. One test to see if it

dissolves easily is to place it in a glass of apple cider vinegar. Apple cider

vinegar mimics the hydrochloric acid in the stomach. If your calcium supplement

is not completely dissolved after half an hour you can be sure it is not

dissolving in your stomach.

Other factors that contribute to calcium absorption:

· Having what is needed to transport and

absorb the calcium, such as vitamin D, magnesium, silicon, protein

· Inability to absorb the calcium due to

excess acidity in the body,

· Weak kidneys

· Parathyroid problems

Side effects of high and imbalanced calcium intake:

· Calcium deposits in the arteries. The

excess calcium attaches itself to the lining of the arteries, along with

plaque, and starts clogging the arteries, leading to cardiovascular disease and

stroke.

· Kidney and gall bladder stones

· Calcium deposits in the joints, which

promotes arthritis and bone spurs

· Prevents cellular regeneration

· Blocks certain enzyme reactions

· Interferes with the absorption of

magnesium

· Blocks manganese uptake

· Decreases iron absorption, which can lead

to anemia or iron deficiency

· Causes a loss of phosphorus and zinc from

the body

· Interferes with vitamin K synthesis

· Reduces the effectiveness of thyroid

medication

· Increases cancer risk

· Increases acidity in the body

· Gout

Symptoms of too much calcium:

· Fatigue

· Weakness

· Loss of appetite

· Nausea

· Vomiting

· Constipation

· Abdominal pain

· Urinary frequency

· Increased thirst

Any

mineral taken in excess will unbalance the others. You can have your blood

calcium levels checked with a blood test.

[Guest guest]

Doesn't the high dose of steroids need to be considered here - osteoporosis can

be caused by steroids and calcium may offset this?

http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/41/10/1088.full

Chris

[Guest guest]

or maybe calcium alone won't offset this? are you thinking that if less calcium

is taken then less steroid will be needed to counter fatigue?

>

> Doesn't the high dose of steroids need to be considered here - osteoporosis

can be caused by steroids and calcium may offset this?

>

> http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/41/10/1088.full

>

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Yes one would think that wouldn’t they as that

has been drummed into us – but I don’t agree - whilst steroids will

upset the mineral balance an individual taking 1200 mg of calcium could be laying

down calcified crystals around the body if they do not get the magnesium

balance correct – have a read of the book The Calcium Lie – I am

on steroids have been for years and like Sheila and a lot of thyroid patients

our bones are likes elephants – this would make it clear to me that we

are magnesium losers not calcium – I have been on steroids for 4 years

and cannot and will not take calcium as it makes me feel ill and thickens my

blood (calcium is a blood clotter and thyroid patients do not need anything

else to slow up the circulatory system methinks).

Everyone is different – you might not be

a magnesium loser but the theory that osteoporosis is a calcium issue is now

being proved wrong by scientific evidence –something I had already worked

out by how I felt when I took it. It was given to my mother who has a bad

heart – GP said you must take calcium as you are on steroids and she

nearly keeled over as it took her circulatory system down and her heart had to

work harder to keep the system going. I would rather eat cheese and dairy

products than take calcium at high levels. If you feel you should take calcium

it MUST be balanced with magnesium or there will be issues.

However in saying all this – an even better

scenario would be to get your levels checked for Cal/Mg. and then you can see

you individual requirements – as I say we are all different in our

mineral make up.

Hope this makes sense

Best wishes

Mandy