Re: Feeling sick with T3...

[Guest guest]

Hi there...

Going on my own experience, I'd be inclined to cut back on the adrenal

supplements first, before cutting down your T3. Also, have you tried Nutri

Adrenomax (free from glandulars)? That might make a difference with the nausea.

If it still continued however, then you could try reducing the T3.

Hope this helps.... Gill

Hey all,

>

> Started T3 20 days ago on Dr P's reccomendation (we suspect thyroid

> hormone resistance but he said I was a very difficult case). Increased

> as he suggested and now on 38mcg.

>

> The last week I have been feeling a lot more ill than usual and even

> worse today, even lieing down I am feeling sick and can barely walk

> around the house without making it worse. > Thanks for your advice.

>

> J

>

[Guest guest]

It

sounds as if you have other associated conditions going on with your

hypothyroidism that is stopping the thyroid hormone from getting into the cells

and you are suffering symptoms of toxicity. Check out the following and go

through all of these by way of a process of elimination to see if any of these

might be the cause of your problem.

There

are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid disease

that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does its work. I

mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be bored

with the same old stuff, but as each new member joins us, they need to know

about these.

The

main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working is, quite

simply, a patient’s thyroid hormone dose is too low because the doctor or

consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test

results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients

still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

1.

You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its

conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal

hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production

down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding

properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But

sometimes it doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long

time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably

denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up,

unconverted. So it doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This

makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest

pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn’t remedy the situation, the

final solution is the use of the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3

- either synthetic or natural. You can check for such a possibility by going to

the FILES SECTION of our forum http://health.grouops//thyroid treatment/files/

and scroll down to the folder entitled 'Medical Questionnaires' and complete

the Adrenal one. Let us know how you score. You can also get the 24 hour

salivary adrenal profile from Genova Diagnostics. See the File entitled

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'. When ordering, write that Thyroid Patient

Advocacy is your medical practitioner. They will send out a kit to you and the

results will be sent direct to you. When you receive these, post the results on

the forum with the reference ranges and we will help with their interpretation.

2.

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast,

which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of

the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated. As above, do the 'Candida Questionnaire' and

let us know how you score, and again, you can be tested by Genova Diagnostics

to give you diagnosis.

3.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

4.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

5.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked;

each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms

ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

6.

Then, there is the possibility of mercury poisoning, caused through amalgam

fillings - these might need to be removed but you need to seek a Dentist who

specialises in the removal of amalgam fillings.

7.

One of the main reasons why thyroid hormone is not being utilised at the

cellular level is because you might be suffering with low levels of iron,

transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc - these have to be tested for, and treated.

When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with, and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done very

carefully.

Ask

your doctor to work with you to help you find the cause. The balancing of these

variables is as much up to you as to your doctor – which is why a check

of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with

symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful. To this end, check out Dr Rind's

Metabolic Metabolic Temperature Graph http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

If

your doctor tries to tell you that low levels of the above mentioned nutrients

have nothing to do with your low thyroid state, copy out the following of just

a few references to the research/studies that have been done to show that there

is a very big connection. Doctors are not taught about this at medical school,

so we have to help them where we can - so they, in turn, can help their other

patients.

Low

iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3

conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism

boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as

indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in

diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered

adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to

altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative

Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination

in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine

and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid

2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in

Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

· NOTE: When

your blood tests come back, ask your doctor for a copy and remember to always

get the reference range and post them on the forum. This is because doctors

will often tell you that there is not a problem because blood tests have come

back within the reference range. You need to know where about in the reference

range they are. We will again, help with their interpretation.

· Vitamin B12

levels for both men and women need to be at the top of the range in a reference

interval of around 175 -900.

· Vitamin D3

levels need to be about 50.

          Ferritin level should be between 90 nad 130.

· Magnesium

levels need to be at the top of the range

Started T3 20 days ago on Dr P's reccomendation (we suspect thyroid hormone

resistance but he said I was a very difficult case). Increased as he

suggested and now on 38mcg.

The last week I have been feeling a lot more ill than usual and even worse

today, even lieing down I am feeling sick and can barely walk around the house

without making it worse. It feels exactly like I am car sick...nausia,

weakness, general feeling of being sick. I thought maybe I had done too

much last week but haven't for the last few days and the feeling hasn't

improved which leads me to suspect the T3...

Should I stop the T3 or decrease the dose? What does this point

to? Have I taken too much T3 or are other things at play? My temps

are still low (around 36.1 - 36.4, sometimes lower). I have

hypoglyceamia, could this be whats messing things up? I am taking lots of

nutri adrenal to support my adrenal glands.

Thanks for your advice.

J

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for your extensive answer Sheila. If you wouldn't mind I have a few

further questions with some of the points.

> 1. You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve.

I'm taking 14 NA and was taking adrenal support for a month before starting the

T3. Could my adrenals still be stopping the T3 working? What should I do about

this if they are? Have I stressed them by taking too much T3 too soon?

> 2. Then, we have systemic candidiasis.

Had negative antibody test and stools test.

> 3. Then there is receptor resistance.

It seems like I do have receptor resistance. How long should it take for the

receptors to come online again? And how fast to build up my dose? Or do you

just build up to toxicity then ease off for a bit.

> 4. And then there are Food allergies.

Been off gluten for a few months. Will be doing elimination diet with Dr P soon

I think.

> 5. Then we have hormone imbalances.

Taking DHEA. Will talk to Dr P about others.

> 6. Then, there is the possibility of mercury poisoning, caused through

> amalgam fillings.

Never had any. Also doing sweat detox regime.

> 7. ...low levels of iron, transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12,

vitamin D3,

> magnesium, folate, copper and zinc.

My blood level is ok but my intracellular level is low according to Dr M. She

tells me the ion pumps which keep the magnesium level correct in the cell don't

work if the mitochondria don't work properly which mine don't. The solution is

to fix the mitochondria but mine don't seem to be doing much. I'm taking

transdermal minerals so I must be absorbing them but last time I checked

intracellular magnesium / copper / zinc / potassium were still low. Might there

be some reason why I can't correct these? Is it the blood level which is

important to the thyroid hormone or the intracellular level? It all seems like

a nasty vicious circle...

Sorry for the long post and many questions.

Many thanks,

J

[Guest guest]

Hi Gill,

Thanks for your advice, I am going to try this and see what happens.

Best wishes,

J

> Going on my own experience, I'd be inclined to cut back on the adrenal

supplements first, before cutting down your T3.

[Guest guest]

Hi Gill,

Thanks for your advice, I am going to try this and see what happens.

Best wishes,

J

> Going on my own experience, I'd be inclined to cut back on the adrenal

supplements first, before cutting down your T3.

[Guest guest]

Hi J

No problem, I found that taking 4 NA was making me a bit nauseous so I have

switched to the Adrenomax and am fine on those. Having said that, I know that

some people do feel sick with an increase of T3. It's difficult sometimes

especially with a symptom like nausea to know what's causing it as it could be

one of many things.

Did I read your post correctly though? Do you take 14 Nutri Adrenal a day??

That does sound rather a lot, especially when you have to take them before 1pm -

it's a lot for your stomach (and liver) to have to deal with.

How are you doing at the moment? Has the nausea subsided?

Take care... Gill

> Hi Gill,

>

> Thanks for your advice, I am going to try this and see what happens.

>

>

> Best wishes,

>

> J