RE: Started thyroxine - what to expect?

[Guest guest]

My experience is very similar to yours, I started on thyroxine just before xmas

at 50 mcgs and felt awful so I stopped taking it. Three weeks ago I started

again but in a much lower dose 12.5 for 10 days, 25 for 10 days and I'm ready to

go up to 50 now.

I felt much better for doing it this was, my head fog has lifted and have more

energy, still have other symptoms but hopefully the higher I go they will go

too.

I'm not sure whether you should lower your dose and go up gradually or just

stick at it maybe someone else could advise?

x

>

> Hi all

> I started taking thyroxine, 50mcgs daily, a week ago. Today was my eighth day,

and I'm feeling absolutely wiped out.

> I was having some serious debilitation before I started taking it - thought I

had flu, and then realised that since there were no symptoms developing, it was

just my recurrent collapsing-sickness which I now presume to be either

hypothyroid or adrenal related. (It's been happening periodically for over ten

years). Some people have said that you can have odd symptoms when you start the

thyroxine. Is feeling *worse* at this stage, something common? I'm told it

generally starts to work after a couple of weeks.

> Have I maybe got to the stage where my own thyroid is shutting down in

response to the thyroxine dose and it's going to take a bit longer to level out?

>

> Any relevant experiences, anyone?

>

> By the way, if I had the option, I would have gone for NDT instead of

levothyroxine, but this is what the doctor offered, of course, and it's free. So

I'm trying it first. If it doesn't work, I'll either ask for additional T3, or

I'll obtain NDT for myself.

>

[Guest guest]

Thyroxine should be started very slowly and should only  be increased every four to six weeks.     It takes about that time for the dose to kick in, so you would not know whether you are on the right dose until then.    If you start at say 50mcg then increase in 10 days and then increase again in another 10 days, by the time you get to about 8 - 10 weeks you may well be overdosed and feeling absolutely awful.

T3 can be increased more quickly because it kicks in very quickly and you will know within a day or two whether you are taking too much.LilianOn 7 March 2012 10:55, Margereson <kmargereson@...> wrote:

 

My experience is very similar to yours, I started on thyroxine just before xmas at 50 mcgs and felt awful so I stopped taking it. Three weeks ago I started again but in a much lower dose 12.5 for 10 days, 25 for 10 days and I'm ready to go up to 50 now.

I felt much better for doing it this was, my head fog has lifted and have more energy, still have other symptoms but hopefully the higher I go they will go too.

I'm not sure whether you should lower your dose and go up gradually or just stick at it maybe someone else could advise?

x

[Guest guest]

You

will feel absolutely wiped out if your levels of iron, transferrin saturation%,

ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper or zinc or low.

Check out the following associated conditions that go along with being

hypothyroid and that stop thyroid hormone from being properly absorbed at the

cellular level to see whether one of these might be the culprit as to why your thyroxine

is not working.

The

main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working is, quite

simply, a patient’s thyroid hormone dose is too low because the doctor or

consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test

results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients

still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

1.

You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its

conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal

hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production

down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding

properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But

sometimes it doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long

time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably

denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up,

unconverted. So it doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This

makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest

pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn’t remedy the situation, the

final solution is the use of the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3

- either synthetic or natural. You can check for such a possibility by going to

the FILES SECTION of our forum http://health.grouops//thyroid treatment/files/

and scroll down to the folder entitled 'Medical Questionnaires' and complete

the Adrenal one. Let us know how you score. You can also get the 24 hour

salivary adrenal profile from Genova Diagnostics. See the File entitled

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'. When ordering, write that Thyroid Patient

Advocacy is your medical practitioner. They will send out a kit to you and the

results will be sent direct to you. When you receive these, post the results on

the forum with the reference ranges and we will help with their interpretation.

2.

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast,

which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of

the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated. As above, do the 'Candida Questionnaire' and

let us know how you score, and again, you can be tested by Genova Diagnostics

to give you diagnosis.

3.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

4.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

5.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked;

each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work properly.

An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone. But another

example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that occurs at

the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative dominance of

oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance downgrades

production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones. This is why

hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms ascribed to this

alone, which is then treated – often with extra oestrogen, making the

whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most especially needs to be

dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance, improves many menopausal

symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses osteoporosis. Happily

natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when used it has the added

benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

6.

Then, there is the possibility of mercury poisoning, caused through amalgam

fillings - these might need to be removed but you need to seek a Dentist who

specialises in the removal of amalgam fillings.

7.

One of the main reasons why thyroid hormone is not being utilised at the

cellular level is because you might be suffering with low levels of iron,

transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc - these have to be tested for, and treated.

When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with, and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done very

carefully.

Ask

your doctor to work with you to help you find the cause. The balancing of these

variables is as much up to you as to your doctor – which is why a check

of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with

symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful. To this end, check out Dr Rind's

Metabolic Metabolic Temperature Graph http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

If

your doctor tries to tell you that low levels of the above mentioned nutrients

have nothing to do with your low thyroid state, copy out the following of just

a few references to the research/studies that have been done to show that there

is a very big connection. Doctors are not taught about this at medical school,

so we have to help them where we can - so they, in turn, can help their other

patients.

Low

iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3

conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism

boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as

indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in

diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered

adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)). 1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to

altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative

Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination

in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine

and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid

2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in

Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low

vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low

vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low

magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low

folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low

copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low

zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

·

NOTE: When your blood tests come back, ask your doctor for a copy and remember

to always get the reference range and post them on the forum. This is because

doctors will often tell you that there is not a problem because blood tests

have come back within the reference range. You need to know where about in the

reference range they are. We will again, help with their interpretation

Some

of us do get natural desiccated porcine thyroid extract prescribed free within

the NHS, and I am one of them. I have been getting it for approximately 8 years

and doing very well on it. However, you might find that if they refuse to give

you a trial of T3 within the NHS and you cannot regain your health on the

mainly INA\CTIVE thyroid hormone levothyroxine, you might need to consider

taking your thyroid health into your own hands.

Luv

- Sheila

I started taking thyroxine, 50mcgs daily, a week ago. Today was my eighth day,

and I'm feeling absolutely wiped out.

I was having some serious debilitation before I started taking it - thought I

had flu, and then realised that since there were no symptoms developing, it was

just my recurrent collapsing-sickness which I now presume to be either

hypothyroid or adrenal related. (It's been happening periodically for over ten

years). Some people have said that you can have odd symptoms when you start the

thyroxine. Is feeling *worse* at this stage, something common? I'm told it

generally starts to work after a couple of weeks.

Have I maybe got to the stage where my own thyroid is shutting down in response

to the thyroxine dose and it's going to take a bit longer to level out?By the

way, if I had the option, I would have gone for NDT instead of levothyroxine,

but this is what the doctor offered, of course, and it's free. So I'm trying it

first. If it doesn't work, I'll either ask for additional T3, or I'll obtain

NDT for myself.

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WHY THYROID HORMONE REPLACEMENT MAY NOT BE WORKING FOR YOU.doc

[Guest guest]

Hi,I felt awful when I started 50mcg thyroxine, and kept turning blue, with palpitations/breathlessness. I wasn't converting the T4 due to adrenal insufficiency and anaemia and other nutritional deficiencies caused by a food allergy, and it was building up in my system. I had to titrate up slowly from 25mcg initially alternate days under medical supervision, and was tested for addisons, cushings etc by an endo I saw privately. So it took months to get on a therapeutic dose of thyroxine but I felt better slowly. Looking back t3 might have been a better choice or natural thyroid.

Hope this helpsJackie x

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[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Good news - I feel a lot better today than

yesterday, so perhaps I've turned the corner. Maybe my own thyroid was getting

confused by the arrival of the synthetic!

Thanks for reposting your tips, Sheila. Fortunately I took your advice when I

first found out I was hypo (back in Oct/November) and have been taking all the

relevant vitamins and minerals since, including NAX (which I've just stopped

today, as I ran out). I've been working especially hard on the iron, as that was

at the bottom of the scale.

Iron may still be low, as I haven't been able to tolerate any supplements except

for Spatone, but I've been eating an iron-rich diet, using a cast-iron pan, and

using transdermal iron as well. So I hope it's looking a bit more respectable...

>

> You will feel absolutely wiped out if your levels of iron, transferrin

> saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper or

> zinc or low.

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen....Interested in the transdermal iron... never heard of that. Did you

get that on prescription? Lynne

> Iron may still be low, as I haven't been able to tolerate any supplements

except for Spatone, but I've been eating an iron-rich diet, using a cast-iron

pan, and using transdermal iron as well. So I hope it's looking a bit more

respectable...

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynne,

I ordered the transdermal iron from here:

http://www.neemgenie.co.uk/all-products/transdermal-iron/prod_75.html

but I can't remember where I heard about it. I think I just googled it, having

heard about transdermal magnesium and wondering if the same existed for iron.

I spoke to them on the phone as I wanted to know what form of iron it was and

what the carrier is. They wouldn't tell me what the carrier is, because they're

applying for a patent on it, but it comes from a tree. (Not the neem tree, so I

have no idea what tree).

The form of iron is ferric ammonia citrate. The guy I spoke to made

extraordinary claims for it, but we have only his word for it! I'll never know

whether or not the stuff works, since I've been taking the Spatone as well, and

the dietary iron. Just thought I'd give it a try since I'm so bad at tolerating

it orally.

It smells of ammonia but it absorbs very quickly, so it's not unpleasant to use.

>

> Hi Helen....Interested in the transdermal iron... never heard of that. Did you

get that on prescription? Lynne

[Guest guest]

Jackie - what supplements are you taking for adrenal fatigue,

anaemia and your other nutritional deficiencies?

Luv - Sheila

I felt awful when I started 50mcg thyroxine, and kept

turning blue, with palpitations/breathlessness. I wasn't converting the T4 due

to adrenal insufficiency and anaemia and other nutritional deficiencies caused

by a food allergy, and it was building up in my system. I had to titrate up

slowly from 25mcg initially alternate days under medical supervision, and was

tested for addisons, cushings etc by an endo I saw privately. So it took months

to get on a therapeutic dose of thyroxine but I felt better slowly. Looking

back t3 might have been a better choice or natural thyroid.

Hope this helps

Jackie x

[Guest guest]

I like the one where you push rusty nails into an apple and

leave it for a while, and then eat the apple. That idea really appealed to me.

Luv - Sheila

Iron may still be low, as I haven't been able to tolerate any supplements

except for Spatone, but I've been eating an iron-rich diet, using a cast-iron

pan, and using transdermal iron as well. So I hope it's looking a bit more

respectable...

[Guest guest]

Yes, me too, looks like witchcraft! I wanted to try it but I couldn't find

any iron nails, they're all galvanised steel these days.

>

> I like the one where you push rusty nails into an apple and leave it for a

> while, and then eat the apple. That idea really appealed to me.

[Guest guest]

Try at your local hardware shop, I am sure there are still iron

nails around. We have some long n ails (about 3 " ) in our nail box that are

showing signs of rust.

Luv - Sheila

Yes, me too, looks like witchcraft! I wanted

to try it but I couldn't find any iron nails, they're all galvanised steel

these days.

>

> I like the one where you push rusty nails into an apple and leave it for a

> while, and then eat the apple. That idea really appealed to me.

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