Re: Switching form T4 to T3 - help!

[Guest guest]

Hello

Jayne

First,

I would go through the following list with a fine tooth comb and see if you

might be suffering with any of these associated conditions. Check these really

carefully, because if you are suffering with any of these no amount of thyroid

hormone will be able to be properly utilised at the cellular level until

whatever is found is appropriately supplemented.

Second,

when starting T3 for the first time, you should always start at a low dose and

build this up slowly. Check our Files section and scroll down to the folder

entitled 'HYPOTHYROIDISM'. Then open the file 'How to Treat Using T3' by Dr Peatfield

and follow the instructions from there.

The

main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working is, quite

simply, a patient’s thyroid hormone dose is too low because the doctor or

consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test results

appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients still don't

feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

1.

You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion

to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones,

notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down,

however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and

provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it

doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long time, the

enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by

many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it

doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite

unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal

support doesn’t remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of the

active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural.

You can check for such a possibility by going to the FILES SECTION of our forum

http://health.grouops//thyroid treatment/files/

and scroll down to the folder entitled 'Medical Questionnaires' and complete

the Adrenal one. Let us know how you score. You can also get the 24 hour

salivary adrenal profile from Genova Diagnostics. See the File entitled

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'. When ordering, write that Thyroid Patient

Advocacy is your medical practitioner. They will send out a kit to you and the

results will be sent direct to you. When you receive these, post the results on

the forum with the reference ranges and we will help with their interpretation.

2.

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast,

which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of

the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated. As above, do the 'Candida Questionnaire' and

let us know how you score, and again, you can be tested by Genova Diagnostics

to give you diagnosis.

3.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

4.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

5.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked;

each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative dominance

of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance downgrades

production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones. This is why

hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms ascribed to this

alone, which is then treated – often with extra oestrogen, making the

whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most especially needs to be

dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance, improves many menopausal

symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses osteoporosis. Happily

natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when used it has the added

benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

6.

Then, there is the possibility of mercury poisoning, caused through amalgam

fillings - these might need to be removed but you need to seek a Dentist who

specialises in the removal of amalgam fillings.

7.

One of the main reasons why thyroid hormone is not being utilised at the

cellular level is because you might be suffering with low levels of iron,

transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc - these have to be tested for, and treated.

When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with, and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done very

carefully.

Ask

your doctor to work with you to help you find the cause. The balancing of these

variables is as much up to you as to your doctor – which is why a check

of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms,

good and bad, can be so helpful. To this end, check out Dr Rind's Metabolic

Metabolic Temperature Graph http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

If

your doctor tries to tell you that low levels of the above mentioned nutrients

have nothing to do with your low thyroid state, copy out the following of just

a few references to the research/studies that have been done to show that there

is a very big connection. Doctors are not taught about this at medical school,

so we have to help them where we can - so they, in turn, can help their other

patients.

Low

iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3

conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism

boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as

indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in

diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered

adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)). 1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to

altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative

Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination

in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine

and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid

2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient

Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low

vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low

vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low

magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low

folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low

copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low

zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

I ordered T3 Cynomel from MexianDrugstore ages ago and occasionally take half a

25mcg tablet but I am scared of it to be honest. Then I read about

's book and have just ordered it from Amazon. I am going to ditch T4

for two weeks and start taking T3 in small doses to see if I feel any

differently. Can you advise about the dose, until the book arrives? I know the

T3 is 4 more times powerful than T4, so if I am taking 175mcg, would 40mcg be

about equivalent and not put me in danger? Many thanks for help and advice (as

soon as possible)!

Thanks Jayne Caveen

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virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

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[Guest guest]

HI Jayne,

I started 's protocol about 7 weeks ago. I was taking 100mcg T4 and 20mcg T3

daily and I just dropped the T4 and carried on with 20mcg T3 split into 2 x

10mcg doses to start with. When I started feeling worse (as it takes a while to

notice T4 reducing) then I added in another 10mcg in a third dose. I then

added in another 5mcg (1/4 UK tablet) to my morning dose, before then moving to

1 whole tablet (20mcg) in the morning. It was over 5 weeks after stopping T4

before I moved onto 40mcg, and I was already taking 20mcg daily before I stopped

the T4.

I do understand the rush, but I would really recommend that you wait for the

book and read it first as there is a lot of good advice on things that you

should check/be doing BEFORE you stop T4 and go onto T3 only.

FYI It will take about 8 weeks for the T4 to clear out of your system and the

goal of these first 8 weeks is just to minimise hypo symptoms wile the T4 gets

out of your system. Only then should you start trying to find your optimum dose

and dosing times. That said, 7 weeks in for me and I am already feeling better

with noticeable signs of improvement.

Good luck

Nadia

>

Can you advise about the dose, until the book arrives? I know the T3 is 4 more

times powerful than T4, so if I am taking 175mcg, would 40mcg be about

equivalent and not put me in danger? Many thanks for help and advice (as soon

as possible)!

>

> Thanks Jayne Caveen

>

[Guest guest]

Good advice from Nadia - straight out of my book!

))))

>

> HI Jayne,

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia,,

Thank you so much for your helpful email. Although I have not ever done T3

alone, I have often taken half a 25mcg tablet in the afternoon, so my body is

not completely new to it, however I did note your advice on taking it very

slowly, by gradually building up the dose.

I can't wait to get started on T3 and get rid of the T4 in my system just to see

if I can improve on T3 alone. I also take Nutri-Adrenal Extra, Selenium, Vit.

D. and sometimes Magnesium. Should I continue with this? I also have T-Convert

from Nutri in the cabinet and also L-Tyrosine, but wonder if this would be too

much overload of supps?

I do appreciate you taking the time to help me, and would love to see how you

improve over the coming weeks. Will look forward to reading 's book in next

few days.

Where do you get your T3 our of interest. I have 25mcg tablets of Cynomel from

MexicanDrugstore. Hope this is ok? Was the calculation of 43mcg of T3 equiv.

to my 175mcg of T4?

Many thanks,

Jayne

>

> HI Jayne,

>

> I started 's protocol about 7 weeks ago. I was taking 100mcg T4 and 20mcg

T3 daily and I just dropped the T4 and carried on with 20mcg T3 split into 2 x

10mcg doses to start with.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane, it is better to start from scratch. the T4 has a half live of 7 days to clear the body, so wait for 7 days and i would start on a low dose of say one 25 mcg of T3 taken in split doses half in the am and half in the pm. wait for 7 days and see how you feel. you can thentry a little more if OK. it is hard to say what dose you will need to finish on , as the dose of T4 has no reflection on the T3 if you were unable to convert it. you will likly no when you have reached the correct dose as you will be feeling different.!!!!someone on T3 will help you along the way. all the best angel.

[Guest guest]

>

> someone on T3 will help you along the way. all the best angel.

>

Thanks Judith. I really think it would be really helpful having a list of

people who are in same boat as me, ie. giving up T4 and starting on T3. Then I

could see the pitfalls/successes to compare with my experience. Does such a

list exist? I do not want to pester people who with this subject if it is not

relevant to their health.

Many thanks,

Jayne

[Guest guest]

Jayne, check our http://health./group.thyroidpatientadovcacy/files/

and scroll down the list to 'INTERNET PHARMACIES' and there you can see all the

places you can buy T3, natural thyroid extract, HC and other goodies without

the need for a prescription. All of these are reputable.

Luv - Sheila

Where do you get your T3 our of interest. I have 25mcg tablets of Cynomel from

MexicanDrugstore. Hope this is ok? Was the calculation of 43mcg of T3 equiv. to

my 175mcg of T4?

Many thanks,

Jayne

[Guest guest]

Jayne,

we have 2880 members and growing daily, and the majority who are here are either

being refused a diagnosis within the NHS because their thyroid function tests

are within the reference range, or they have been started on levothyroxine (T4)

-only, and left suffering, because thyroxine is a mainly inactive hormone and it

needs to convert to the active thyroid hormone T3 and there is a large minority

unable to convert - so you will find yourself in good company here. Sit back

and watch the messages coming in from new members.

We

are all individuals, and you should not base your treatment on what is

happening to others. Ask questions, and we will try to help where we can. If

you have been on levothyroxine-only and it has not worked for you, then first

thing you need to do is to check out the following information and go through

all of these by way of a process of elimination:

There

are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid disease

that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does its work.

I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people must be

bored with the same old stuff, but as each new member joins us, they need to

know about these.

The

main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working is, quite

simply, a patient’s thyroid hormone dose is too low because the doctor or

consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test

results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients

still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

1.

You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its

conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal

hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production

down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly,

and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it

doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long time, the

enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by

many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it

doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite

unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal

support doesn’t remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of

the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or

natural. You can check for such a possibility by going to the FILES SECTION of

our forum http://health.grouops//thyroid treatment/files/

and scroll down to the folder entitled 'Medical Questionnaires' and complete

the Adrenal one. Let us know how you score. You can also get the 24 hour

salivary adrenal profile from Genova Diagnostics. See the File entitled

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'. When ordering, write that Thyroid Patient

Advocacy is your medical practitioner. They will send out a kit to you and the

results will be sent direct to you. When you receive these, post the results on

the forum with the reference ranges and we will help with their interpretation.

2.

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast,

which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of

the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated. As above, do the 'Candida Questionnaire' and

let us know how you score, and again, you can be tested by Genova Diagnostics

to give you diagnosis.

3.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

4.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

5.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked;

each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms ascribed

to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra oestrogen, making

the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most especially needs

to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance, improves many

menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

6.

Then, there is the possibility of mercury poisoning, caused through amalgam

fillings - these might need to be removed but you need to seek a Dentist who

specialises in the removal of amalgam fillings.

7.

One of the main reasons why thyroid hormone is not being utilised at the

cellular level is because you might be suffering with low levels of iron,

transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc - these have to be tested for, and treated.

When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with, and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done very

carefully.

Ask

your doctor to work with you to help you find the cause. The balancing of these

variables is as much up to you as to your doctor – which is why a check

of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with

symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful. To this end, check out Dr Rind's

Metabolic Metabolic Temperature Graph http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

If

your doctor tries to tell you that low levels of the above mentioned nutrients

have nothing to do with your low thyroid state, copy out the following of just

a few references to the research/studies that have been done to show that there

is a very big connection. Doctors are not taught about this at medical school,

so we have to help them where we can - so they, in turn, can help their other

patients.

Low

iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3

conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism

boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as

indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in

diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered

adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)). 1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to

altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative

Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381. 2. SM, PE,

Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient

rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine

and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid

2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in

Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low

vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low

magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low

folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low

copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low

zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

·

NOTE: When your blood tests come back, ask your doctor for a copy and remember

to always get the reference range and post them on the forum. This is because

doctors will often tell you that there is not a problem because blood tests

have come back within the reference range. You need to know where about in the

reference range they are. We will again, help with their interpretation.

You

will also find a lot of information in the FILES SECTION thyroid treatment/files/

Luv

- Sheila

>

> someone on T3 will help you along the way. all the best angel.

>

Thanks Judith. I really think it would be really helpful having a list of

people who are in same boat as me, ie. giving up T4 and starting on T3. Then I

could see the pitfalls/successes to compare with my experience. Does such a

list exist? I do not want to pester people who with this subject if it is not

relevant to their health.

Many thanks,

Jayne

No

virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4855 - Release Date: 03/06/12

1 of 1 File(s)

WHY THYROID HORMONE REPLACEMENT MAY NOT BE WORKING FOR YOU.doc

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for sending me all the reasons why I may not be doing well on

Levothyroxine. I have already received these numerous times from you when i

joined the forum about 2 years ago, and whilst they are obviously helpful, I

have already done a lot of the testing you advise (ie. I have done the saliva

test, candida and blood tests for iron). I also take NAX, Selenium and Vit. D.

having seen Dr Peatfield over 3 years ago.

You said: " I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people

must be bored with the same old stuff, but as each new member joins us, they

need to know about these. " It is obviously difficult for you to keep track of

who you have sent this advice to and who you have not, so I understand why you

may repeat sending your list of reasons for T4 not to be working, " ad nauseum " .

I just have not posted for a long time, so that is why you think I am new to the

forum.

However, I am not a " newbie " , but I am new to the idea of self-medicating with

T3 only after taking T4 for 2 and half years. This is quite daunting to me,

especially as 99% of medics are against prescribing T3.

I also appreciate that we are all individuals and should not base not base my

treatment on what is happening to others. However, it does help knowing you can

contact people in a similar situation and share their experiences.

My request was purely to find people who are just starting to cease T4 and begin

taking T3. I appreciate there are thousands of people on your forum, but the

subjects are wide ranging, and thought there might be some kind of group of

people who could share similar experiences, without having to trawl through

endless postings trying to find the relevant info. There are so many posting

about NDT and not as many on T3 only. I have recently bought s

book, so I will be interested in reading that soon.

The advice I would need is where to purchase T3 in UK (instead of me buying from

Mexicandrugstore), and also the dose in early stages, what to expect when T4 has

left the system etc. I will try and read other peoples posts and hope to find

the answers.

Jayne

>

> Jayne, we have 2880 members and growing daily, and the majority who are here

> are either being refused a diagnosis within the NHS because their thyroid

> function tests are within the reference range, or they have been started on

> levothyroxine (T4) -only, and left suffering, because thyroxine is a mainly

> inactive hormone and it needs to convert to the active thyroid hormone T3

> and there is a large minority unable to convert - so you will find yourself

> in good company here. Sit back and watch the messages coming in from new

> members.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The advice I would need is where to purchase T3 in UK (instead of me buying from Mexicandrugstore), and also the dose in early stages, what to expect when T4 has left the system etc. I will try and read other peoples posts and hope to find the answers.

Hello Jayne,

You can't purchase T3 in the UK without a prescription, either a private one or an NHS script ... this is why most people buy it from the Mexicanstore, as it is the cheapest source and it works well. So I would stick with that, unless you know of a doctor who will give you a script.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

>

Hi Jayne,

I took tentative steps - when I took T4 after about a year I looked at T3 and

did buy from the internet pharmacy you mentioned and took maybe half of a 25 mcg

tablet. To be honest the T4 was low and the 12.5 mcg T3 wasn't either.

I had to make the brave step that a lot of us take with self treating and I

stopped the T4 waited about 6 weeks and then started T3 - using the Circadian

Method - taking 12.5 early morning, 12.5 late morning and 12.5 was added a few

weeks later at around 3pm - so I am now on 37.5 mcgs a day and I really feel

like a light has been switched on - no low moods, tiredness,bloating,- more

definition in myface again.

It really is cheaper to buy them from the sources in the files, some websites

that cater for body builders that maybe take steriods will sell T3 for the fat

metabolic purposes - but it is very expensive.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

Jayne, I approved another message you sent before this one, a

much longer message, but it doesn't appear to have come through for some

reason. If you have a copy, please can you resend it please.

Luv - Sheila

The advice I would need is where to

purchase T3 in UK (instead of me buying from Mexicandrugstore), and also the

dose in early stages, what to expect when T4 has left the system etc. I will

try and read other peoples posts and hope to find the answers.

Hello Jayne,

You can't purchase T3 in the UK without a

prescription, either a private one or an NHS script ... this is why most people

buy it from the Mexicanstore, as it is the cheapest source and it works

well. So I would stick with that, unless you know of a doctor who will give you

a script.

Best wishes,

No

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[Guest guest]

Jayne, it is not the number of members really, it is the number

of messages that I receive (60 to 80 daily on average) sometimes many, many more.

That is why I cannot remember who I have already send information to especially

when they have not been around on the forum for some time. Anyway, I always

look on this as it being better to have information sent to you several times

than not at all. I am trying to help, and not hinder but my old brain finds it

very hard to keep up.

You don't have to trawl through all the messages, just the one's

where you have asked questions. Stick to the same thread and there shouldn't be

a problem.

My request was purely to find people who are just starting to cease T4 and begin

taking T3. I appreciate there are thousands of people on your forum, but the

subjects are wide ranging, and thought there might be some kind of group of

people who could share similar experiences, without having to trawl through

endless postings trying to find the relevant info. There are so many posting

about NDT and not as many on T3 only. I have recently bought s

book, so I will be interested in reading that soon.

If you stick to the subject line that you have opened this topic

with, you will get the information you need. Ask questions, and wait for the

answers - they will come in.

The advice I would need is where to purchase T3 in UK

(instead of me buying from Mexicandrugstore), and also the dose in early

stages, what to expect when T4 has left the system etc. I will try and read

other peoples posts and hope to find the answers.

T3 (Liothyronine) is a prescription ONLY medication in the UK

and therefore, you cannot buy this here without a prescription. This is why we

have our list of reputable Internet Pharmacies where you can buy it without

prescription, but from other countries. Go to our FILES SECTION and scroll down

to the FOLDER entitled 'Hypothyroidism' and open that. Scroll down to the

document 'How to Treat Using T3' - this was written by Dr Peatfield and that

should help you.

If you are needing T3 because T4 is not helping you, then you will

hopefully find that when T4 has left your system (around 6 weeks), the T3 will

be the hormone your body needs and everything will start to fall into place as

and when the dose has been titrated. In this business of thyroid disease,

nobody can tell you what to expect because it is a fact, we are all different.

Some need T4 adding to their T3, Some need T3 adding to their natural thyroid

extract. Some need to start T3 very early in the morning, i.e. 4.30a.m. some do

fine starting it at 8.00a.m. and taking a second dose 8 hours later. Some do

better on natural thyroid extract only. It is all a case of trying the

experiment to find out what works for you.

This is probably why doctors get it so wrong - they set their

minds (in stone) on a specific thyroid hormone they believe works for all

patients (T4) and believe this should not be titrated to doses no higher than

125/150mcgs. If only life was that simple!

Luv - Sheila

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[Guest guest]

Hi Stacey,

This is the kind of response I had hoped to get! How were you without the T4

for 6 weeks - as that is a long time to have no hormone replacement?

To hear that you feel like the light has been switched on is very encouraging!

I have two small bottles of Cynomel from Mexicandrugstore, and have taken 1/2 a

tablet now and again, but have always been a bit afraid of them to be honest.

I am waiting for s book - is that the protocol you are following?

What about having check-ups with an Endo. Mine currently sees me every 4

months, but if I decide to take the T3 I daren't tell him! Have you had any

blood tests since being on the T3-I guess feeling better is the only result we

need! It's just disgusting that we have to treat ourselves in this

" black-market " style of obtaining the drugs which we cannot get in UK.

Hope you don't mind me asking you all these questions, as it is helpful. I know

Sheila says everyone is individual and we must judge by our own bodies how to

proceed, but hearing a success story does lift the spirits. I thought after 2

and half years on Eltroxin I would feel like I used to, but I just feel fat &

fatigued most of the time.

Thanks again for your help.

Kind regards,

Jayne

>

> >

> Hi Jayne,

>

> I took tentative steps - when I took T4 after about a year I looked at T3 and

did buy from the internet pharmacy you mentioned and took maybe half of a 25 mcg

tablet. To be honest the T4 was low and the 12.5 mcg T3 wasn't either.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Jayne

If you want some success stories, is providing these on his

web site and you might be encouraged by reading these - http://recoveringwitht3.com/success_story

Sheila

Hope you don't mind me asking you all these questions, as it is helpful. I know

Sheila says everyone is individual and we must judge by our own bodies how to

proceed, but hearing a success story does lift the spirits. I thought after 2

and half years on Eltroxin I would feel like I used to, but I just feel fat

& fatigued most of the time.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks Sheila - yes I have read all those success stories on his website and

should get his book early next week. I only decided to stop taking my Eltroxin

on Tuesday, and wonder how long should I wait to start T3? I have dabbled in

taking 1/2 a tablet on and off for a few months. Some people say it takes a

week to leave the system, but I notice you stated 6 weeks? Do you think I will

feel really ill with no T4 in my system after taking it for over 2 years?

I am determined to give T3 only a go, but at the same time I am petrified of

feeling ill again, and so is my family. I am sure will advise on all this

but he isn't a Doctor and as you say, what works for him, might not necessarily

work for someone else. I am so envious of people who have good Endos to support

them with either T3 or NDT. My GP and Endo are both really nice chaps, but I

know they would not even consider this treatment and would warn me to steer

clear. It's the same old story.

Thanks,

Jayne

>

> Hi Jayne

>

> If you want some success stories, is providing these on his web site

> and you might be encouraged by reading these -

> http://recoveringwitht3.com/success_story

>

> Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

> Hope you don't mind me asking you all these questions, as it is helpful. I

> know Sheila says everyone is individual and we must judge by our own bodies

> how to proceed, but hearing a success story does lift the spirits. I thought

> after 2 and half years on Eltroxin I would feel like I used to, but I just

> feel fat & fatigued most of the time.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nadia, I have been reading all those success stories on 's

website and

should get his book early next week. I only decided to stop taking my Eltroxin

(175mcg)

on Tuesday, and wonder how long should I wait to start T3? I have dabbled in

taking 1/2 a tablet on and off for a few months. Some people say it takes a

week to leave the system, but I notice you stated 6 weeks? Do you think I will

feel really ill with no T4 in my system after taking it for over 2 years?

I am determined to give T3 only a go, but at the same time I am petrified of

feeling ill again, and so is my family. I am sure will advise on all this

but he isn't a Doctor and as you say, what works for him, might not necessarily

work for someone else. I am so envious of people who have good Endos to support

them with either T3 or NDT. My GP and Endo are both really nice chaps, but I

know they would not even consider this treatment and would warn me to steer

clear. It's the same old story.

Thanks for any advice,

Jayne

>

> >

> > HI Jayne,

> >

> > I started 's protocol about 7 weeks ago. I was taking 100mcg T4 and

20mcg T3 daily and I just dropped the T4 and carried on with 20mcg T3 split into

2 x 10mcg doses to start with.

>

[Guest guest]

what is the www address for Mexicanstore?

and how much does the T3 cost? Lloyds Pharmacy on-line is charging £1.50 per

20mcg which apperas to be the best UK price.

>

>

> The advice I would need is where to purchase T3 in UK (instead of me

> buying from Mexicandrugstore), and also the dose in early stages, what

> to expect when T4 has left the system etc. I will try and read other

> peoples posts and hope to find the answers.

>

>

>

> Hello Jayne,

>

> You can't purchase T3 in the UK without a prescription, either a

> private one or an NHS script ... this is why most people buy it from the

> Mexicanstore, as it is the cheapest source and it works well. So I would

> stick with that, unless you know of a doctor who will give you a script.

>

> Best wishes,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I bought it from http://mymexicandrugstore.org/ but that was a long time ago.

Think it's still same website add. Do you have a prescription then, if you buy

it in UK? That sounds very expensive? Jayne

>

> what is the www address for Mexicanstore?

>

moderated..... old messages removed

[Guest guest]

You can check in our FILES section for the best Internet

Pharmacies outside of the UK. Go to thyroid treatment/files/

and on the page that opens, scroll down the list of FOLDERS to the one entitled

'Internet Pharmacies'. Open that and you have access to the web sites of all

the Internet Pharmacies we have found reputable (including mexicandrugstore).

It is impossible for you to buy thyroid hormones from the UK

chemists without you have a doctors prescription - it is illegal to do so and

any UK pharmacy selling thyroid drugs without a prescription would be closed

down with immediate effect.

Sheila

what is the www address for Mexicanstore?

and how much does the T3 cost? Lloyds Pharmacy on-line is charging £1.50 per

20mcg which apperas to be the best UK price.

>

>

> The advice I would need is where to purchase T3 in UK (instead of me

> buying from Mexicandrugstore), and also the dose in early stages, what

> to expect when T4 has left the system etc. I will try and read other

> peoples posts and hope to find the answers.

>