Re: <10 tpo antibodies- does this really mean i don't have hashimotos?

[Guest guest]

Hi Hayley

If you have TPO antibodies, then you have Hashimoto's disease.

Hashimoto's is a cause of becoming hypothyroid, but the treatment remains

exactly the same whether you this is a cause or there are other causes. Thyroid

antibodies are specific to your thyroid. Once they have destroyed your thyroid

tissue, they disappear, but you need to continue taking thyroid hormone

replacement for the rest of your life. As your antibody test was look, this

could have been because at the time your blood was drawn for the test, the

antibodies were not active - this is why your health, with Hashimoto's, is up

and down, sometimes they are active causing chaos, and other times they are not

active, where you feel OKish during that time.

First, we always need reference range for each of the tests done

to see whether your results are at the bottom, the top, the middle or even

outside of the reference range, so next time you post results, post these too

and we can then help with proper interpretation.

However, TSH in May 2010 was high in a usual reference range of

0.5 to 5.0 (should be around 1.0 for a 'normal' person.

Free T4 in May was too low at 13.0 for somebody not taking any

thyroid replacement. For such people their free T4 should be just above the

middle of the reference range (normally around 9.0 to 22), so your free T4

should be around 16/17.

One month later, June, sees you becoming even more hypothyroid,

TSH raised and fT4 dropping.

4 months later, you must have been feeling pretty grotty at that

time, with TSH almost 20.0 and free T4 outside of the bottom of the reference

range.

January 2012, something has started to work at last. TSH dropped

nearer to where it should be (1.00), free T4 starting to rise and good to see

they tested your free T3 this time. We cannot really tell how good your

level of T3 is without the reference range, and these can differ in different

hospitals, depending on the particular testing kit they use.

Luv - Sheila

I'm just confused as i've been reading in other

thyroid forums that if you have antibodies then you have hashimotos...I've got

antibodies by the looks of my test but they are low??......

recent first-

jan 2012 TSH- 2.50

F T4- 13.01

F T3-4.8

OCT 2011 TSH- 19.68

F T4-7.1

JUNE 2010 TSH-12.04

F T4- 12.05

MAY 2010 TSH- 7.10

F T4-13.01

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

sorry if I am being 'slow'

are you saying that if you have ANY level of antibodies (even very low) then you

have hashimoto's?

is there any reference 'out there' for this? not because I don't believe you but

because I'd like to show it to my doctors as they say I don't have hashimoto's,

one of the doctors even say I should have never started thyroid hormone

treatment!

My antibodies were extremely low:

anti-TPO antibodies 2 (0-150 U/ml)

anti-Thyroglobulin Abs 2 (0-150 U/ml)

(above taken january 2012)

I do work at the hospital where this test was done and I know with many people

the test comes back saying 'negative' so many people have NO antibodies at all,

it means I did have 'something' but minuscoli/ridiculously there so much so no

doctors are even taking any notice of this result.

Also do you know if antibodies are ever worth repeating once they have been done

once?

> If you have TPO antibodies, then you have Hashimoto's disease. Hashimoto's

> is a cause of becoming hypothyroid, but the treatment remains exactly the

> same whether you this is a cause or there are other causes. Thyroid

> antibodies are specific to your thyroid. Once they have destroyed your

> thyroid tissue, they disappear, but you need to continue taking thyroid

> hormone replacement for the rest of your life. As your antibody test was

> look, this could have been because at the time your blood was drawn for the

> test, the antibodies were not active - this is why your health, with

> Hashimoto's, is up and down, sometimes they are active causing chaos, and

> other times they are not active, where you feel OKish during that time.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

sorry if I am being 'slow'

are you saying that if you have ANY level of antibodies (even very low) then you have hashimoto's?

This question has no easy answer because there is no clear yes or no. A doctor will tell you that if your antibodies are negative then you don't have Hashimoto's. ... but it is not as clear cut as that.

We all have (and need to have) antibodies of various kinds. They are our immune system; they police against "intruder cells" and make sure we stay healthy.

TPO (thyroid peroxidase antibodies), for example, is an enzyme situated inside the thyroid gland, that plays an important role in the production of thyroid hormones. A thyroid antibody test detects antibodies against TPO or TgAb in the blood. TgAb (Thyroglobulin antibody) is a protein that is produced and used by the thyroid gland to make T3 and T4.

So both those antibodies "live" in the thyroid gland (they should not be detectable in the blood), but when things go wrong, autoimmunity develops, which turns antibodies into autoantibodies. In an autoimmune disease the antibodies have gone haywire and instead of safeguarding our body, they now do the opposite – they attack and destroy.... in case of TPO- and Thyroglobulin autoantibodies they attack and destroy specifically the thyroid function.

So when those autoantibodies are found in the blood, it is clear that the patient suffers from Hashimoto's disease. – But – the number of AA's goes up and down all the time. During an attack their numbers in the blood will be up, during periods of remission their numbers will be down; sometimes even undetectable in the blood. The only way to 100% determine whether or not there are autoantibodies would be to do a fine needle aspiration from the thyroid gland itself. Their numbers in the blood can vary from single figures to many thousands of them. The actual amount is not the deciding factor because numbers will fluctuate violently - their presence is the diagnostic factor.

One could argue that 1 or 2 autoantibodies detectable in the blood does not mean autoimmunity. OK – this is why we have ref ranges. Some presence apparently is acceptable to the medical profession. But when you consider that nearly 90% of autoimmune thyroiditis has an autoimmune origin, it makes you wonder, because you won't find positive AA's in 90% of hypothyroid patients. So I must conclude that in some cases the autoantibodies are contained within the thyroid gland and don't appear to spill over into the blood. I'm not a doctor or scientist, so can only draw my own, very unscientific, conclusions. As Dr. Skinner says in his book `simple minds say simple things'... and to my simple mind a low autoantibody count does not exclude autoimmunity.... it just makes it more difficult to prove.

Not that in case of hypothyroidism it makes any difference whatsoever to the treatment. Thyroiditis is an inflammation of the thyroid gland, whatever the cause for the inflammation. It will - in any case - result in a total dysfunction of the thyroid gland, and the earlier it gets treated, the better, as delayed treatment will inevitably result in a further decline of the patients wellbeing and open the door for further diseases to invade.... and this is why the comments of the doctors who told your you should never have started thyroid hormone treatment are silly, not to say stupid.

Also do you know if antibodies are ever worth repeating once they have been done once?

It depends on how desperate you are to find out the origin of your condition. As I said, it makes no difference whatsoever to the treatment, but I am one of those who would want to know. To my mind it is worth monitoring until you have "caught" a high count, so that you the can say with some "confidence" that you suffer indeed from autoimmune thyroiditis (Hashi's). Once you have "confirmation" of autoimmunity it will at least shut up doubting doctors. After "confirmation" it is strictly speaking not necessary to keep testing, although it can satisfy our curiosity to see how it's going. Once antibodies have turned autoimmune there is no turning back the clock. Autoimmunity is for life. It is treatable, but not curable. Those autantibodies will not rest until they have destroyed the thyroid function... only then will they totally disappear – and leave you with a dead thyroid gland.

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

thank you for your detailed answer, it all makes sense indeed.

Do you know if the antibodies will still carry on 'attacking' once you start

taking thyroid hormone?

I think they would? am I correct in thinking so?

>

> This question has no easy answer

To my mind it

> is worth monitoring until you have " caught " a high count, so

> that you the can say with some " confidence " that you suffer

> indeed from autoimmune thyroiditis (Hashi's). Once you have

> " confirmation " of autoimmunity it will at least shut up doubting

> doctors. After " confirmation " it is strictly speaking not

> necessary to keep testing, although it can satisfy our curiosity to see

> how it's going. Once antibodies have turned autoimmune there is no

> turning back the clock. Autoimmunity is for life. It is treatable, but

> not curable. Those autantibodies will not rest until they have destroyed

> the thyroid function... only then will they totally disappear – and

> leave you with a dead thyroid gland.

>

>

>

> With best wishes,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Do you know if the antibodies will still carry on 'attacking' once you start

taking thyroid hormone?

> I think they would? am I correct in thinking so?

Yes, you are correct. You can slow down the rate of destruction by choosing a

gluten free diet, taking selenium, taking thyroid medication and leading a

stress free life, but you can't prevent it from happening. AAs will, in the

fullness of time, destroy your thyroid function and there is nothing you can do

about that.

Best wishes,