Re: are these hypo symptoms?

[Guest guest]

Hello - first NEVER, NEVER, NEVER accept that your blood

tests " are fine " or " normal " just because a member of the

medical profession tells you they are. They might be, but we are finding more

and more, that doctors are not trained how to interpret results. It does appear

that if your results appear ANYWHERE within the reference range, they believe these

are 2normal " and that you don't have a problem. We need to know whether

the results are at the bottom, the middle or the top of the range, and where

they lie in relation to other results, so always get these results yourself

from your GP. You need the results and the reference range for each of the

tests done and post them here on the forum. For instance, the vitamin B12

reference range is around 175 to 800. We need our results to be near to the top

of the range, but it often happens that for those with a result of 2/300 are

being told they don't have a problem - because they are within the range. Ferritin

has a reference range of around 20 to 200 (for women), and your results needs

to be between 90 and 130 for you to feel good, - but many sufferers of the

symptoms of hypothyroidism find their result is 30/40 region, and again,

doctors are telling them they don't have a problem, because it is within range.

A doctor cannot withhold any information that is in your medical records under

the Data Protection Act 1998 - so get those results and we will help with their

interpretation.

A sore tongue can be caused by several reasons, e.g. vitamin B12

deficiency or even biting your tongue, which often happens in people with

thyroid deficiency. The tongue often swells (a sign of hypothyroidism) and you

can get indentations at the sides caused by teeth. Dry scaly scalp causing

itchiness is also a sign of hypothyroidism.

Check out our list of symptoms and signs in our list www.tpa-uk.org.uk - click on

'hypothyroidism' in the Menu, and then 'symptoms and signs' on the drop down

menu.

Luv - Sheila

I am waiting for my latest set of results back

from my gp surgery including the extra vitamin etc tests. I rang to check they

were there and was told yes, and they are fine. Isn't it strange that it is

very deflating to find out that apparently you are well?!

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila - Thanks very much for the information below. I have since called at

the surgery and got a print out of my results, the ones that were described as

'ok'. Admittedly the cortisol test was noted as slightly low and the note made

by the GP said to keep FU? with my Endo with whom I have an appt on 17th April.

I really want to get the next steps right as I have lost all confidence in the

GPs and Endo and think I've been patient (unintended pun) enough for 3 years. I

had intended trying T3 only and start with the range of supplements suggested,

but think that maybe I will need to sort iron/cortisol out first. I would be

really grateful to get some views on this and my best course of action. Here

goes:

TSH 0.03 miu/L (0.345-5.60)

FT4 9.3 pmol/L (7.5-21.1)

FT3 5.6 pmol/L (3.5-5.6)

Serum cortisol 188 nmol/L (240-618)

B12 252ng/l (120-914)

Serum folate 6.0ng/ml (4.0-20.0)

Serum ferritin 44ng/ml (11-306.8)

Serum iron level 20.2 umol/L (5.0-30.0)

Serum transferrin 2.10g/L (1.9-2.8)

Saturation iron binding capac 37.0%

I have a GP appt in 10 days time as I made it to discuss the results but I do

know they consider them to be 'normal, no action'. I was told my ferritin level

is normal for a woman of my age (53) so do you think I should challenge this?

Looking back at my previous results, my ferritin levels went down to 8 in June

2010 and I was put on Ferrous Sulphate, but when the levels reached 43 by

November 2010, it was then considered to be ok. Seems to have stayed at taht

level ever since.

By the way, I have been taking T4/T3 since Nov '11, 100mcg/20mcg. No relief or

improvement in symptoms than when I was just on T4 only, but not much advice

from the Endo on dosage of T3. He will not go beyond 20mcg so I think I will

have to go to someone else if T3 only is the right option.

Average temp is around 36.2, highestv over the last 2 weeks has been 36.6 and

lowest 35.8. BP has always been fairly low at (today) 106/68 and pulse around

65-75. Doing the adrenal saliva test tomorrow so these results will not be known

for a week or so.

Sorry to give you so much info, but best you know so are able to give

well-informed advice. It's just that I've reached that stage of enough is enough

and I want to be proactive. We all do so much waiting with this this illness.

Sigh!

All the very best

x

>

> Hello - first NEVER, NEVER, NEVER accept that your blood tests " are

> fine " or " normal " just because a member of the medical profession tells you

> they are. They might be, but we are finding more and more, that doctors are

> not trained how to interpret results.

moderated

[Guest guest]

Angels,

The B12 is the pits..... which may account for the sore mouth. I know when my

B12 needs topping up because I get mouth ulcers.... You need to suppliment

asap with B12 sub lingual.... they dissolve under the tongue so that they don't

have problems getting through the stomache..... I used Solgar nuggets 1000 mg

(or mcg?)

The folate isn't great either or the ferritin.....

>

goes:

>

> TSH 0.03 miu/L (0.345-5.60)

> FT4 9.3 pmol/L (7.5-21.1)

> FT3 5.6 pmol/L (3.5-5.6)

> Serum cortisol 188 nmol/L (240-618)

> B12 252ng/l (120-914)

> Serum folate 6.0ng/ml (4.0-20.0)

> Serum ferritin 44ng/ml (11-306.8)

> Serum iron level 20.2 umol/L (5.0-30.0)

> Serum transferrin 2.10g/L (1.9-2.8)

> Saturation iron binding capac 37.0%

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Personally, I would not be wasting any further time with an

endocrinologist who has made up his mind to go no further than 20mcgs Lyothyronine

(T3). This is the smallest dose of T3 and this should be increased by 10mcgs

every 3 to 4 weeks until your symptoms disappear. What is this endocrinologist

playing at? If he looks in the British National Formulary, it states

categorically that T3 in doses of 20mcgs to 60mcgs is recommended, and in many

cases, doctors will prescribe even larger doses where there is an indication

for this. You need a doctor who knows what he is doing, and I will send you my

list of doctors who will prescribe T3, either synthetic, in combination with

T4, T3 on it's own, or natural thyroid extract.

What is the point of keeping the appointment on the 17th if he

has already decided not to increase your T3, wasting his and your precious

time.

Free T4 is a bit on the low side, so probably need to increase

the thyroxine. Serum Cortisol, I would not leave this in the hands of the NHS

unless they are prepared to do a short synacthen test. You attend the hospital

first thing in the morning, before 9.00a.m. They take a blood sample and half

an hour later, give you an injection of synacthen, and half an hour later, take

another blood sample to see if your level of cortisol has increased. You could

also get the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile test done to check your levels of

cortisol and DHEA at four specific times during the day. Check our FILES

SECTION, accessible from the Home Page of this forum. On the page that opens,

scroll down to 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements' and open the 'Genova

Diagnostics' file. Follow the instructions in there for ordering this test and

tell them that Thyroid patient Advocacy is your medical practitioner. You will

get a discount. The results will be sent direct to you and you should then send

them to the forum where will we will help with their interpretation.

If you are suffering with low adrenal reserve, you need to start

supplementing immediately, and we will tell you how to do this.

Your B12 is FAR too low. B12 results should ALWAYS be near to

the top of the reference range. Talk to your GP about this and see if he will

prescribe you a course of B12 - hopefully, injections. This boosts your B12

level quickly. If s/he refuses, buy the Solgar brand of B12, sublingual caplets

1000mcgs and take two daily to start with, until your level starts to rise, and

then 1000mcgs daily thereafter.

Ferritin is not too bad considering it was right down at 8. However,

it is still far too low and is best when it is between 90 and 130. Keep eating

foods high in iron and I would start taking the Ferrous Sulphate 200mgs daily

again until your levels start to rise. If any of these are low in the range,

what doctors have not been taught is that no matter what thyroid hormone

replacement you are taking, it cannot be fully utilised at the cellular level

until your levels have been increased.

Check out the attached document that shows several associated

conditions with symptoms of hypothyroidism that stop thyroid hormone (even your

own) from working. This should help.

Luv - Sheila

FT4 9.3 pmol/L (7.5-21.1)

Serum cortisol 188 nmol/L (240-618)

B12 252ng/l (120-914)

Serum folate 6.0ng/ml (4.0-20.0)

Serum ferritin 44ng/ml (11-306.8)

By the way, I have been taking T4/T3 since Nov '11, 100mcg/20mcg. No relief or

improvement in symptoms than when I was just on T4 only, but not much advice

from the Endo on dosage of T3. He will not go beyond 20mcg so I think I will

have to go to someone else if T3 only is the right option.

Average temp is around 36.2, highestv over the last 2 weeks has been 36.6 and

lowest 35.8. BP has always been fairly low at (today) 106/68 and pulse around

65-75. Doing the adrenal saliva test tomorrow so these results will not be

known for a week or so.

Sorry to give you so much info, but best you know so are able to give

well-informed advice. It's just that I've reached that stage of enough is

enough and I want to be proactive. We all do so much waiting with this this illness.

Sigh!

1 of 1 File(s)

WHY THYROID HORMONE REPLACEMENT MAY NOT BE WORKING FOR YOU.doc

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much . I am going to ask the GP for the B12 injections at

the advice of Sheila. If it's a no, then I definitely will get the Solgar. As yo

say, may be reason for mouth ulcers.

x

> >

> goes:

> >

> > TSH 0.03 miu/L (0.345-5.60)

> > FT4 9.3 pmol/L (7.5-21.1)

> > FT3 5.6 pmol/L (3.5-5.6)

> > Serum cortisol 188 nmol/L (240-618)

> > B12 252ng/l (120-914)

> > Serum folate 6.0ng/ml (4.0-20.0)

> > Serum ferritin 44ng/ml (11-306.8)

> > Serum iron level 20.2 umol/L (5.0-30.0)

> > Serum transferrin 2.10g/L (1.9-2.8)

> > Saturation iron binding capac 37.0%

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

Firstly, to say I'm so grateful for you taking the time to respond individually

to all us people. It means a lot to be taken seriously at long last as well as

get practical advice.

You're right about the Endo. Absolutely no point. I'll cancel. Just kept

thinking that he would see the light! It bugs me that in any other profession,

if you weren't sure about a particular aspect, you would say so. But consultants

seem to find it impossible to admit they're not experts in every aspect of

endocrinology. Good grief, we all would find that more refreshing and then be

able to move on to one who IS expert in the field. Rant over!

I think I might stop T4 and just take the vits and minerals while T4 clearing,

get cortisol sorted and then try T3 only starting slowly. Does this sound ok? Do

you have a list of vits/minerals which are advisable to take with recommended

doses? Looked through files but can't find a basic starter 'kit'. There are so

many to consider but basic ones seem to be B complex, vit C and maybe D (but

haven't been tested for this)? Any pointers for me to put on the shopping list?!

I will ask for B12 injections and ferrous sulpate, and if they say no, I will go

for the SOLGAR nuggets and concentrate on iron-rich food. Thanks also for the

associated condition list. Not sure I can rule out the candida, due to definite

sweet cravings, but maybe this is just me being greedy!!!

Huge thanks

x

>

> Hi

>

> Personally, I would not be wasting any further time with an endocrinologist

> who has made up his mind to go no further than 20mcgs Lyothyronine (T3).

[Guest guest]

First, I would get tested to check out your levels of iron,

transferrin saturation%, ferritin, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and

zinc. Erase the one's you have recently had done, but get the others checked

and post the results on the forum, with the reference range for each one.

We recommend Selenium 200mcgs daily (with food) for those with symptoms

of hypothyroidism a good B complex, high doses of vitamin C (2/3000mgs) vitamin

D3 (nearly everybody is low and the recommended daily dose is around 4000mcgs.

for those who need it. Being hypothyroid means we need much larger doses than

those recommended by the DoH.

Luv - Sheila

I think I might stop T4 and just take the vits and minerals while T4 clearing,

get cortisol sorted and then try T3 only starting slowly. Does this sound ok?

Do you have a list of vits/minerals which are advisable to take with

recommended doses? Looked through files but can't find a basic starter 'kit'.

There are so many to consider but basic ones seem to be B complex, vit C and

maybe D (but haven't been tested for this)? Any pointers for me to put on the

shopping list?!

I will ask for B12 injections and ferrous sulpate, and if they say no, I will

go for the SOLGAR nuggets and concentrate on iron-rich food. Thanks also for the

associated condition list. Not sure I can rule out the candida, due to definite

sweet cravings, but maybe this is just me being greedy!!!

Huge thanks

x

>

> Hi

>

> Personally, I would not be wasting any further time with an

endocrinologist

> who has made up his mind to go no further than 20mcgs Lyothyronine (T3).

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[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

Sorry, but not sure what you meant by posting results on the forum? I thought I

had done, but do you mean post them again instead of replying to you? Anyway,

the test results are listed below, but I have added the HB & haematocrit.

Haven't been tested for vit D3, magnesium, copper or zinc. But going on the ones

below, then I should go back and ask for cortisol treatment, B12 & folate too

possibly.

TSH 0.03 miu/L (0.345-5.60)

FT4 9.3 pmol/L (7.5-21.1)

FT3 5.6 pmol/L (3.5-5.6)

Serum cortisol 188 nmol/L (240-618)

B12 252ng/l (120-914)

Serum folate 6.0ng/ml (4.0-20.0)

Serum ferritin 44ng/ml (11-306.8)

Serum iron level 20.2 umol/L (5.0-30.0)

Serum transferrin 2.10g/L (1.9-2.8)

Saturation iron binding capac 37.0%

HB 12.9 g/dL (11.5-17.0)

Haematocrit 0.39 (0.37-0.47)

Doing adrenal stress saliva test today, and this may confirm low cortisol. If

so, this may be the culprit for thyroid hormones not performing correctly. Let's

see. Maybe B12/Folate/Ferritin red herrings but can they all be deficient? Or

will the others improve once cortisol has improved?

Thank you once again.

x

>

> First, I would get tested to check out your levels of iron, transferrin

> saturation%, ferritin, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc. Erase

> the one's you have recently had done, but get the others checked and post

> the results on the forum, with the reference range for each one.

>

[Guest guest]

Apologies , and yes, you had previously posted the

information below. So many people are posting messages and their blood results

that it is easy to forget who has and who hasn't. I had already responded

to you but forgotten. This little old brain of mine gives up the ghost

sometimes, and once it has taken in its daily dose of information, pulls the

plug, and it all drains away.

Yes, you still need tests to check your levels of Vitamin D3,

magnesium, copper, zinc and should start treatment to boost your levels of B12

and folate. You need to ask your GP to refer you to your local hospital for a

short synacthen test and ACTH to see whether you could be suffering with 's

or Secondary 's disease.

Whilst doing the adrenal STRESS profile today, please make sure

that you are not sitting resting all day. That would not test your levels of

STRESS, which is what this test is all about.

I doubt that low B12, folate and ferritin levels are " red

herrings " - these will need treatment to build up their levels including

any treatment required for adrenal deficiency. Getting your levels of cortisol

sorted will not raise low levels of nutrients. Once they have been treated, a

good level of cortisol then might help in the maintenance of good

minerals/vitamin levels.

Luv - Sheila

Sorry, but not sure what you meant by posting results on the forum? I thought I

had done, but do you mean post them again instead of replying to you? Anyway,

the test results are listed below, but I have added the HB & haematocrit.

Haven't been tested for vit D3, magnesium, copper or zinc. But going on the

ones below, then I should go back and ask for cortisol treatment, B12 &

folate too possibly.

Doing adrenal stress saliva test today, and this may confirm low cortisol. If

so, this may be the culprit for thyroid hormones not performing correctly.

Let's see. Maybe B12/Folate/Ferritin red herrings but can they all be

deficient? Or will the others improve once cortisol has improved?

[Guest guest]

Many thanks again Sheila. No worries about the confusion re forgetting. I don't

know how you keep up with all those replies on a daily basis, but thank goodness

you do!! I feel happier now knowing what I need to ask for, and hopefully once

vits, minerals, coortisol are optimasl then the thyroid drugs may start

working!!!

x

>

> Apologies , and yes, you had previously posted the information below.

> So many people are posting messages and their blood results that it is easy

> to forget who has and who hasn't.

[Ed]