Re: Question about Thyroxine and HRT

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

The estrogen in HRT binds the transport of thyroid meds, so they can't get to

where they are needed. Usually it would mean that you have to take more meds

when taking HRT.

.

I've started taking HRT and find i can now take more thyroxine without feeling

over medicated and have started to feel a little better in myself.I have not had

a blood test yet so i will be interested to see what the results are.Has anyone

else had this happen or know why it's happening.Thanks Helen

>

[Guest guest]

Would that apply to oestrogen in the form of cream too? Though in this case

there is little of it:

http://www.progesterone.co.uk/20-1-cream.htm

Miriam

> The estrogen in HRT binds the transport of thyroid meds, so they can't get to

where they are needed. Usually it would mean that you have to take more meds

when taking HRT.

[Guest guest]

.

>

> I've started taking HRT and find i can now take more thyroxine without feeling

over medicated and have started to feel a little better in myself.I have not had

a blood test yet so i will be interested to see what the results are.Has anyone

else had this happen or know why it's happening.Thanks Helen

> >

>

Thanks ,that answers my question. Helen

[Guest guest]

Helene,

check out the following. There are many conditions that are associated with

those of us suffering symptoms of hypothyroidism that must be treated, to enable

thyroid hormone to be fully utilised at the cellular level. Once these are

found and treated, yes, thyroid hormone suddenly starts to work.

The

main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from working is, quite

simply, a patient’s thyroid hormone dose is too low because the doctor or

consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test

results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is too high, yet patients

still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some reasons for this:

1.

You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its

conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal

hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production

down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding

properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But

sometimes it doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long

time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied

by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So

it doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel

quite unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain. If provision of

adrenal support doesn’t remedy the situation, the final solution is the

use of the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3 - either synthetic or

natural. You can check for such a possibility by going to the FILES SECTION of

our forum http://health.grouops//thyroid treatment/files/

and scroll down to the folder entitled 'Medical Questionnaires' and complete

the Adrenal one. Let us know how you score. You can also get the 24 hour

salivary adrenal profile from Genova Diagnostics. See the File entitled

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'. When ordering, write that Thyroid Patient

Advocacy is your medical practitioner. They will send out a kit to you and the

results will be sent direct to you. When you receive these, post the results on

the forum with the reference ranges and we will help with their interpretation.

2.

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast,

which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of

the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated. As above, do the 'Candida Questionnaire' and

let us know how you score, and again, you can be tested by Genova Diagnostics

to give you diagnosis.

3.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

4.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

5.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked;

each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms

ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

6.

Then, there is the possibility of mercury poisoning, caused through amalgam

fillings - these might need to be removed but you need to seek a Dentist who

specialises in the removal of amalgam fillings.

7.

One of the main reasons why thyroid hormone is not being utilised at the

cellular level is because you might be suffering with low levels of iron,

transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc - these have to be tested for, and treated.

When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with, and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done very

carefully.

Ask

your doctor to work with you to help you find the cause. The balancing of these

variables is as much up to you as to your doctor – which is why a check

of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with

symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful. To this end, check out Dr Rind's

Metabolic Metabolic Temperature Graph http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

If

your doctor tries to tell you that low levels of the above mentioned nutrients

have nothing to do with your low thyroid state, copy out the following of just

a few references to the research/studies that have been done to show that there

is a very big connection. Doctors are not taught about this at medical school,

so we have to help them where we can - so they, in turn, can help their other

patients.

Low

iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3

conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism

boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as

indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in

diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered

adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1. Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al.

Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism.

Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2. SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro

hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary

fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3. Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron

and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and

Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4. Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for

Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr.

1989;119:772-778.

Low

vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low

vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low

magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low

folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low

copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low

zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

·

NOTE: When your blood tests come back, ask your doctor for a copy and remember

to always get the reference range and post them on the forum. This is because

doctors will often tell you that there is not a problem because blood tests

have come back within the reference range. You need to know where about in the

reference range they are. We will again, help with their interpretation

Luv

- Sheila

Can anyone answer my question,i've always felt

i needed more thyroixine but could not tolerate it as i'd start to feel over

medicated but i still felt under medicated as well.I've started taking HRT and

find i can now take more thyroxine without feeling over medicated and have

started to feel a little better in myself.I have not had a blood test yet so i

will be interested to see what the results are.Has anyone else had this happen

or know why it's happening.Thanks Helen

No

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[Guest guest]

>

> Helene, check out the following. There are many conditions that are

> associated with those of us suffering symptoms of hypothyroidism that must

> be treated, to enable thyroid hormone to be fully utilised at the cellular

> level. Once these are found and treated, yes, thyroid hormone suddenly

> starts to work.

>

Hi, thanks for this Sheila,i've been going through this FILES SECTION list one

by one trying to eliminate all of these problems,i've had some success and

improvement with minerals and vitamins and a gluten-free diet.I've also tried

adding T3 this gives an improvement but after a few weeks of lowering the T4 i

then feel that i need more T4 not less and i still do not feel as good as i

would like.I am going through the menopause so i have tried progesterone

cream,i had an improvement with this but it did not last,i have now Tried HRT

which i have had some problems with but because this has gave me the best

improvement out of everything i have tried i've stuck at it.the Dr has now

Changed the brand i am taking and this one suits me better but i need more time

on it just to see where it takes me.Which prompted me to ask the Question " why

do i need more T4 when i take HRT " .I'm hoping HRT this will do it,if not i'll

keep trying until i find the answer there has to be one.The Dr's and Endos have

been no help ,without this forum i think i would have gone mad.In 4 years this

is the best i've felt,i just want my life back.Thanks for all your Help .Helen