Guest guest Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 HTN yes, low K - not that we are aware of, My great aunt's medical history is lost. My father had a 24 hour urine, so the family doc may have that. My mom is alive and can be tested. I don't have latest #s from suppression test, however last labs were Aldo 13, Renin 0 and Potassium 3.5 (not sure if it was first or second pipe after turq). Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com I did not suppress Aldosterone in salt suppression test, so I do have Primary Aldosteronism (goodbye salt, hello Spiro (have not had discussion on meds yet with doctor, not sure if this should be with Endo or Primary Care)). Scheduled for a CT on June 25. Barium down the hatch. More will be revealed. Bindner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Good get what their normal values are as well. Esp for the saline suppression test. Guess the peeing during the test predicted it again-The Grim pee test I guess we could call it.CE Grim MDOn Jun 16, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Bindner wrote: HTN yes, low K - not that we are aware of, My great aunt's medical history is lost. My father had a 24 hour urine, so the family doc may have that. My mom is alive and can be tested. I don't have latest #s from suppression test, however last labs were Aldo 13, Renin 0 and Potassium 3.5 (not sure if it was first or second pipe after turq). Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com I did not suppress Aldosterone in salt suppression test, so I do have Primary Aldosteronism (goodbye salt, hello Spiro (have not had discussion on meds yet with doctor, not sure if this should be with Endo or Primary Care)). Scheduled for a CT on June 25. Barium down the hatch. More will be revealed. Bindner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Any tell tale signs on whether a mass is present rather than simply having two large adrenals glands (aside from the occassional twinge near, but not at, the bend in my colon on the right side where I have a nasty case of diverticulitis? Also, I have been taking magnesium. Could that screw up the potassium test? Bindner I did not suppress Aldosterone in salt suppression test, so I do have Primary Aldosteronism (goodbye salt, hello Spiro (have not had discussion on meds yet with doctor, not sure if this should be with Endo or Primary Care)). Scheduled for a CT on June 25. Barium down the hatch. More will be revealed. Bindner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Mg++ will have no effect. The DASH gives plenty of Mg++Some complain that they have had pains on the side that had the tumor but we have not collected enough data to see how often they are correct. I would suspect that one cannot reliably tell which side the problem is on. All of us have small aches and pains and if we pay attention to them all we may go nuts.I call this the Medical Student Syndrome. Every disease you read about having a pain here or then the next time you get a pain here or there you think: My God I that that pain here disease.CE Grim MDOn Jun 16, 2009, at 9:08 PM, Bindner wrote:Any tell tale signs on whether a mass is present rather than simply having two large adrenals glands (aside from the occassional twinge near, but not at, the bend in my colon on the right side where I have a nasty case of diverticulitis? Also, I have been taking magnesium. Could that screw up the potassium test? Bindner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 No, I was asking about the loose stool effect of the magnesium, which may have altered Potassium results. Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com Any tell tale signs on whether a mass is present rather than simply having two large adrenals glands (aside from the occassional twinge near, but not at, the bend in my colon on the right side where I have a nasty case of diverticulitis? Also, I have been taking magnesium. Could that screw up the potassium test? Bindner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Depends on which Mg prep you are using. Some have lots of salt. One can lose K in stool but not a lot unless a lot of diarrhea. Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MD Specializing in Difficult High Blood Pressure and recent evolutionary forces on high blood pressure in population's today. On Wednesday, June 17, 2009, at 08:27AM, " Bindner " <mikeybdc@...> wrote: >No, I was asking about the loose stool effect of the magnesium, which may have altered Potassium results. > > > > > > > Bindner > >Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): >http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html >http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com > > > > > >Any tell tale signs on whether a mass is present rather than simply having two large adrenals glands (aside from the occassional twinge near, but not at, the bend in my colon on the right side where I have a nasty case of diverticulitis? Also, I have been taking magnesium. Could that screw up the potassium test? > > > > > > > Bindner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 You should not be taking ACE meds and be tested for Conn's. Go to files look at or click on Endocrine_Society_PA_Guidelines.pdf read table 4 on pg 51 you will see ACE meds and others cause tests to be negative. > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > Bridget > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 did they change your bp meds? what are you currently on? Bindner Web Directory (links to my sites and blogs): http://www.geocities.com/mikeybdc/index.html http://mikeybdc.blogspot.com From: bridget <blueyes7648@...>Subject: test resultshyperaldosteronism Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head...Bridget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 thank you > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > Bridget > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 thank you > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > Bridget > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I was on Lisiniprol 40 mg and toprol 150 mg, the cardiologist that ordered the test has me off lisiniprol for a week before I do the test. Wasn't sure if toprol could cause anything or not. Bridget > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@...> > Subject: test results > hyperaldosteronism > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > Â > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > Bridget > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 A week may not be long enough should be 2 to 4 weeks. > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > Subject: test results > > hyperaldosteronism > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > Bridget > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Uuuugh, that is not what I wanted to hear....I am so sick of feeling yucky and waiting and waiting! Thank you, do you know what kind of other tests I can tell them to do? Bridget > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > Subject: test results > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > > Bridget > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I'm in the exact same boat as you. For the test you need to be on a normal sodium diet.. I had to re-introduce salt (2000mg) and you need to be off ACE-I (lisinopril) a minimum of 2 weeks (recommended) I just delayed my test by one week to get my sodium up, get my potassium levels up and wash-out the ACE-I I was on. I had an episode today (feeling terrible) but my symptoms cycle as well. I hope my monday's test will give me some info. This change in test date has delayed my results now to 1 month vs. 2 weeks. (northern new brunswick, canada) but i'm like you, I'm so sick and tired of feeling terrible, I want to get an accurate diagnosis. So sodium and potassium status and meds can affect the test. If your other med is a B-blocker, it can most likely decrease the aldo level but I'm not sure by how much. The endo guidelines we are following recommend verapamil SR and the alpha-blockers (add on) otherwise. (Canadian) I'm on verapamil and I see my pressure peaking as the sodium works it's way into my system again. (just in last two days, headache, feeling worse-resting lots) 2 more days to go and then i " m reducing the sodium again. If you are really not feeling well, get your most recent potassium level....you'll see from this weeks discussions, potassium serum levels don't really reflect your true potassium status and even yet, the serum level can be greatly affected by technique. What I suggest is follow the guidelines as closely as possible so you can have an accurate test (ARR) and get on some potassium if your serum levels are low-watch the technique (even if it shows low normal). Adding potassium will not affect the test and if your kidneys are functioning normally, it will not be harmful. Discuss this with your doctor. I couldn't even touch on my potassium depletion juicing etc. all day long... If your symptoms start to improve on potassium supplementation then you can concur that your potassium was in fact lower than anticipated. It may take some time to get your potassium to where it should be (have it checked often- I started to feel semi-normal after 2 months), ie. replenish your stores-muscle, but if it is potassium-related (which plays a role in Conn's) you should find the wait for the results more tolerable. Now that I'm on 5 kdur (120mEq) plus dietary as well, I can actually function (1/3 of normal) and my head occasionally works Take care, feel for you, going through it too Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > > Subject: test results > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > > > Bridget > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I wound put your symptoms in google search but would put " and " between each word. This way it it will take you to sites have all the words on them. Ringing in the ears can be cauesd by problems with blood vessels in your head. You could have more then one problem. I would go to a good eye doctor many things can be learned from looking at ones eyes. I am sure Dr Grim will have more to say. Most of the time he responds it sometimes take him a day or so. You have to remember he is sometimes reading 30 or more postings at a time. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > > Subject: test results > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > > > Bridget > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Wait for the test results. Do it in the way the lab recommends so you can use their normals to decide if you have Conn's or not. Give us results as soon as you get them and most Cards and many Endo dont know how to interpret them. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 16, 2009, at 6:04 PM, bridget wrote: I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... Bridget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I would still get testing Monday. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 16, 2009, at 8:55 PM, bridget wrote: thank you > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > Bridget > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Get the test. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:18 PM, bridget wrote: Uuuugh, that is not what I wanted to hear....I am so sick of feeling yucky and waiting and waiting! Thank you, do you know what kind of other tests I can tell them to do? Bridget > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > Subject: test results > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > > Bridget > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Get the test done and then we will see what it shows. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 16, 2009, at 8:56 PM, bridget wrote: I was on Lisiniprol 40 mg and toprol 150 mg, the cardiologist that ordered the test has me off lisiniprol for a week before I do the test. Wasn't sure if toprol could cause anything or not. Bridget > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@...> > Subject: test results > hyperaldosteronism > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > Bridget > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Would discourage googling symptoms. Go to our Conn's story files and read what others have had problems with. May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:26 PM, Francis Bill wrote: I wound put your symptoms in google search but would put "and" between each word. This way it it will take you to sites have all the words on them. Ringing in the ears can be cauesd by problems with blood vessels in your head. You could have more then one problem. I would go to a good eye doctor many things can be learned from looking at ones eyes. I am sure Dr Grim will have more to say. Most of the time he responds it sometimes take him a day or so. You have to remember he is sometimes reading 30 or more postings at a time. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > > Subject: test results > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > > > Bridget > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 The key thing is to do what the lab recommends. Not what what the doctor orders. Can ask the doctor for lab guidelines. > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was > > just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time > > of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there > > are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for > > conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for > > everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's > > all in my head... > > Bridget > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I agree... I'm actually waiting to see the eye doctor as well. Vision in one eye is affected when I have these episodes... Have to also rule out pituitary thing Vision- more like i'm wearing sunglasses and i have fingerprints blocking my vision on one side only plus some extra floaters on that side. Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > > > Subject: test results > > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > > > > Bridget > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I may have missed some of her SX in files and other places. Many are listed but some may not be. Some could be side effects of meds. Her question was what other testing should she have done. Both from people I know and google searching I can think of a few other things that her Sx could lead to. There are very few doctors like you that will leave no stone unturned to get a diagnoses. Most will tell you since I don't know what is wrong I can't help. So it is up to us to do research as to what might be wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > > > > Subject: test results > > > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and > > I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on > > the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, > > but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. > > result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, > > every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to > > feel like it's all in my head... > > > > > > Bridget > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Do these vision things precede a headache?\ May your pressure be low!Clarence E. Grim, BS, MS, MDSpecializing in Primary Aldosteronism the most common cause of "Difficult/Drug Resistant High Blood Pressure". Other research interests focus on the interactions of recent evolutionary forces on the body's ability to handle salt and the effect of dietary salt on blood pressure in populations today.Listed in Best Doctors of America 2009. On Oct 17, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Chantal wrote: I agree... I'm actually waiting to see the eye doctor as well. Vision in one eye is affected when I have these episodes... Have to also rule out pituitary thing Vision- more like i'm wearing sunglasses and i have fingerprints blocking my vision on one side only plus some extra floaters on that side. Chantal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > > > Subject: test results > > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to feel like it's all in my head... > > > > > Bridget > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 for me, I noticed about a month ago that road signs were getting blurry so I saw an eye doctor and my vision has changed so I need glasses now, but as the day goes on my vision changes, so the glasses make things blurry. The headaches don't seem to have anything to do with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: bridget <blueyes7648@> > > > > > > > Subject: test results > > > > > > > hyperaldosteronism > > > > > > > Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having a blood test on monday to look for Conn's, > > and I was just wondering if the results could fluctuate depending > > on the time of day, month, because I have been miserable for a > > year, but there are days when I feel okay, is it possible to have a > > neg. result for conn's and actually have it? I am just frusterated, > > every test for everything has come back fine and I'm beginning to > > feel like it's all in my head... > > > > > > > Bridget > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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