Re: On T3 - hyper

[Guest guest]

Hi,

How much have you been taking? Have you lowered your dose of T4 (if you were

on it....)

What signs of being hyper do you have?

sorry, a bit more info would help..... It's quite hard to go hyper just from a

slightly increased dose of T3...... despite what the scare stories tell

you......

x

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I don't post here very often but I was hoping you might be able to help me?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your reply. I'm on an INCREDIBLY low dose of T3 (no T4, not taken

any for months) but I think my needs are quite small as believe it or not I'm

slowly getting better. I should explain things first...

I've seen Dr Skinner and he's diagnosed me hypo and I'm noticing benefits from

the T3 so I don't think my diagnosis is in question.

I started trying 25mcg T4 and my body freaked out. Tried 12.5mcg and again it

freaked out but not so badly. Tried 2.5mcg T3 and got chest pains, tried

1.25mcg and still got chest pains. In the end just got fed up and went straight

for the 2.5mcg and after a couple of days they went. Felt slightly less hypo

and gradually increased my dose by 2.5mcg until I reached 15mcg.

I noticed that although my resting heart rate was ok, when ever I got up to do

something it would shoot through the roof - eg 120 - just from say washing my

hair. Started getting stabbing chest pain and palpitations when my heart was

skipping beats. Stuck with it for 3 days as thought it might go like before but

it just got worse so dropped back to 12.5mcg and the chest pains went but heart

still racing and skipping beats so got a bit worried and now only took 2.5mcg

today.

Blood pressure has come back down to 115/67 but heart rate still 80ish which I

know is ok but normal for me is I think about 70 and it's not budged all day.

When I was hypo and increasing my dose it was usually 60ish. Still getting

slightly raised heart rate, palpitations and skipped beats, mostly when I get up

to do something which triggers it.

Also may have had GI symptoms - not quite diarrohea (sorry) but not normal.

How long until the T3 leaves my system? I would have thought it would be gone

by now? But my body's not settled back down yet.

But...

I'm now getting new chest pains which I think are similar to the ones I got when

I lowered my dose previously and they were hypo symptoms which seemed to go with

a dose increase (sorry, 3 types of chest pains here - it's getting complicated

so understand if I've lost you :-) )

Just don't really know what to do really.

xx

>

> Hi,

>

> How much have you been taking? Have you lowered your dose of T4 (if you were

on it....)

>

> What signs of being hyper do you have?

>

> sorry, a bit more info would help..... It's quite hard to go hyper just from

a slightly increased dose of T3...... despite what the scare stories tell

you......

>

> x

>

[Guest guest]

Are

you feeling better now that you have dropped back. Sometimes, you can get

symptoms of hyperT and hypoT at the same time, but this could actually be

symptoms showing that you are suffering with adrenal fatigue and this should be

checked by getting the 24 hour salivary adrenal test kit to check  your levels

of cortisol and DHEA at four specific times during the day. Go to our FILES

SECTION http://health..group.thyroid treatment/files/

and scroll down to the Folder 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements' and open the

'Genova Diagnostics' File and order the test from there. Follow the

instructions for ordering stating 'Thyroid Patient Advocacy' is your

practitioner. They will give you the TPA discount and send the results to you. You

should then post the results with the reference range for each of the tests

done on the forum and we will help with their interpretation.

Meanwhile,

you should read the following information to check whether you might be

suffering with any of the associated conditions that go along with being

hypothyroid that stop thyroid hormone from being properly utilised at the

cellular level. If you have any of these, this could be the reason why you are

getting your present symptoms.

1.

You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its

conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal

hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production

down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding

properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But

sometimes it doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long

time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably

denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up,

unconverted. So it doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This

makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest

pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn’t remedy the situation, the

final solution is the use of the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3

- either synthetic or natural. You can check for such a possibility by going to

the FILES SECTION of our forum http://health.grouops//thyroid treatment/files/

and scroll down to the folder entitled 'Medical Questionnaires' and complete

the Adrenal one. Let us know how you score. You can also get the 24 hour

salivary adrenal profile from Genova Diagnostics. See the File entitled

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'. When ordering, write that Thyroid Patient

Advocacy is your medical practitioner. They will send out a kit to you and the

results will be sent direct to you. When you receive these, post the results on

the forum with the reference ranges and we will help with their interpretation.

2.

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast,

which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of

the lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated. As above, do the 'Candida Questionnaire' and

let us know how you score, and again, you can be tested by Genova Diagnostics

to give you diagnosis.

3.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

4.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

5.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked;

each part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms

ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

6.

Then, there is the possibility of mercury poisoning, caused through amalgam

fillings - these might need to be removed but you need to seek a Dentist who

specialises in the removal of amalgam fillings.

7.

One of the main reasons why thyroid hormone is not being utilised at the

cellular level is because you might be suffering with low levels of iron,

transferring saturation%, ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc - these have to be tested for, and treated.

When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with, and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done very

carefully.

Ask

your doctor to work with you to help you find the cause. The balancing of these

variables is as much up to you as to your doctor – which is why a check

of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse rates, together with

symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful. To this end, check out Dr Rind's

Metabolic Metabolic Temperature Graph http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

If

your doctor tries to tell you that low levels of the above mentioned nutrients

have nothing to do with your low thyroid state, copy out the following of just

a few references to the research/studies that have been done to show that there

is a very big connection. Doctors are not taught about this at medical school,

so we have to help them where we can - so they, in turn, can help their other

patients.

Low

iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3

conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism

boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as

indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in

diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered

adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)). 1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to

altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative

Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2. SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro

hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary

fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3. Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron

and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and

Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4. Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for

Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr.

1989;119:772-778.

Low

vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low

vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low

magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low

folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low

copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low

zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

·

NOTE: When your blood tests come back, ask your doctor for a copy and remember

to always get the reference range and post them on the forum. This is because

doctors will often tell you that there is not a problem because blood tests

have come back within the reference range. You need to know where about in the

reference range they are. We will again, help with their interpretation.

Luv

- Sheila

I don't post here very often but I was hoping you might be able to help me?

I am taking T3 and have ended up over medicated - too keen on increasing the

dose! - How long should you leave it without taking any before starting again?

I've dropped back down but I'm confused by it all because I am getting signs

I'm hypo again but also still have some of the symptoms which made me realise I

was hyper... confused!!! When will the hyper symptoms go?!

Don't know what to do - please help!

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for your reply. The trouble is I don't think I actually needed to

increase my dose any more as I was starting to feel well and I don't think I'd

given the previous doses long enough to work fully before increasing them. I

know that sounds mad, but I really think I only need a little dose because of

the positive effect it was having. So I honestly do think I was hyper and I'm

not sure that any of the things you listed are me.

I was feeling a bit better today as hadn't taken any t3 since yesterday

afternoon (2.5mcg all day). This morning my pulse was down somewhere in the 70s

and was getting fewer skipped beats and by the afternoon I thought this had

gone. I started to feel really tired and was getting head rushes so decided I

needed another dose. I took 2.5mcg and this got rid of the head rushes and I

felt less tired but it gave me palpitations a couple of hours after.

This wore off, then tonight I stupidly had half a glass of wine and started

getting palpitations, stabbing pains and my chest and an ache down my left arm

and up into my neck. This seems to be going now but I'm really confused as to

what's going on.

I don't think I'm going to touch any more for a while and certainly no alcohol.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on?!?!?! Would appreciate any advice.

Thanks xx

>

> It sounds as if you could be suffering with one of the many associated

> conditions that go along with symptoms of hypothyroidism and you should go

> through each one of these to check (through a process of elimination) that

> one (or more) of these is not the cause for not being able to increase your

> dose.

[Guest guest]

Hello, please could someone help me with my below problem? I don't know what to

do.

Many thanks xx

> >

> > It sounds as if you could be suffering with one of the many associated

> > conditions that go along with symptoms of hypothyroidism and you should go

> > through each one of these to check (through a process of elimination) that

> > one (or more) of these is not the cause for not being able to increase your

> > dose.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Just a thought.

Since I have been taking thyroid meds = previously T4 adding T3 now just T3 I

have found that my tolerance of alcohol is much lower - as in I could probably

feel ok after 2 glasses of wine and now 1 is really enough and to be honest I

could take it or leave it.

Not entirely sure why and how but maybe you just need to keep away from it and

once your meds are on track and stable then just have a little and see.

Good luck

Stacey

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thanks for your message and the link. This is certainly a possibility I have

been considering. I ended up going to A & E last night just to be sure and get

checked out. 3 ECGs were fine and the troponin blood test was negative so they

said I could go. So my heart hadn't been damaged. CRP was 10 (top of the range

was 7) but noone seemed bothered by this. I am in my 20s and am a normal BMI.

Normal blood pressure and heart rate.

I think I can therefore conclude that it's the t3 which has upset my system a

bit? The capsules I'm taking are unlicensed as they're only 2.5mcg so I wonder

if maybe that's something to do with it?

I agree with you that because the T3 is such a tiny dose it is very unlikely but

I think this is a possibility as the small dose was working wonders for me

before it became too much. I had my T3 checked a few months ago before starting

to take T3 and it was smack in the middle of the range, so it wasn't that low

(4.something I think). So I would therefore conclude that I don't need much

replacement.

Assuming I did go hyper a few days ago, how would you suggest that I deal with

this?

xx

>

> Grasp the nettle and face it that your problem just might be heart related

> with the symptoms you are getting, and it could be that you are suffering

> with Angina. If this happens again, telephone NHS direct or try to speak to

> your GP. He will want you to either go to the surgery or to your local

> hospital for an ECG as they need to do this during such an episode of pain

> in your chest with pain going down left arm and into your neck.

>

> It might help meanwhile to take an aspirin and take magnesium, if you get

> any more palpitations to see if that helps, but you must get an ECG and not

> put this off. I may well be wrong, but it is better to be safe than sorry.

> You might be experiencing an early warning. I doubt the T3 at such a tiny

> dose would cause the symptoms you are feeling.

>

> Read the following information

> http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/health-information/directory/a/angina

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply Stacey. Yes I think somehow the wine just seemed to set

things off again once I thought they were calming down. I'm completely baffled

by the whole thing!

Everything I'm reading says that alcohol increases your heart rate and I did

think I felt a couple of adrenaline surges during the worst so perhaps the chest

pains were hypothyroid symptoms because my body couldn't cope with the extra

strain - does anyone think this could be possible?

xx

>

>

> Hi,

>

> Just a thought.

>

> Since I have been taking thyroid meds = previously T4 adding T3 now just T3 I

have found that my tolerance of alcohol is much lower - as in I could probably

feel ok after 2 glasses of wine and now 1 is really enough and to be honest I

could take it or leave it.

>

> Not entirely sure why and how but maybe you just need to keep away from it

and once your meds are on track and stable then just have a little and see.

>

> Good luck

> Stacey

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, please could someone help me? I'm so confused by this. Thanks a lot xx

---------------------------------------------

Thanks for your message and the link. This is certainly a possibility I have

been considering. I ended up going to A & E last night just to be sure and get

checked out. 3 ECGs were fine and the troponin blood test was negative so they

said I could go. So my heart hadn't been damaged. CRP was 10 (top of the range

was 7) but noone seemed bothered by this. I am in my 20s and am a normal BMI.

Normal blood pressure and heart rate.

I think I can therefore conclude that it's the t3 which has upset my system a

bit? The capsules I'm taking are unlicensed as they're only 2.5mcg so I wonder

if maybe that's something to do with it?

I agree with you that because the T3 is such a tiny dose it is very unlikely but

I think this is a possibility as the small dose was working wonders for me

before it became too much. I had my T3 checked a few months ago before starting

to take T3 and it was smack in the middle of the range, so it wasn't that low

(4.something I think). So I would therefore conclude that I don't need much

replacement.

Assuming I did go hyper a few days ago, how would you suggest that I deal with

this?

>

> Thanks for your reply Stacey. Yes I think somehow the wine just seemed to set

things off again once I thought they were calming down. I'm completely baffled

by the whole thing!

>

> Everything I'm reading says that alcohol increases your heart rate and I did

think I felt a couple of adrenaline surges during the worst so perhaps the chest

pains were hypothyroid symptoms because my body couldn't cope with the extra

strain - does anyone think this could be possible?

>

> xx

>

>

[Guest guest]

In addition to other things B1 deficiency can cause this as well. B complex

should be in your supplement list.

Chronic cortisol and iron deficiency can also induce issues like this - if these

are on the edge of OK then even a small dose of thyroid hormone on top can tip

you over.

You need a proper heart assessment though as others have said.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your replies. I get the T3 on prescription ordered by the

pharmacy from Specials lab or from Sovreign. I therefore presumed it wasn't

dodgy T3 - what do you think?

>

> This is exactly why we have a document in our files section -

> thyroid treatment/files/ that

> shows the reputable Internet Pharmacies where you can buy such medicines

> safely. Open the folder entitled 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements' and

> you will find all the information you need there.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

> Where did you get the T3?

>

> I tried some once from a body building site and got terrible reactions, I

> think there was a lot of other rubbish in it.

>

> Just a thought.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for your message.

I was taking a B complex but then started to get weird numbness in my legs so

stopped taking it as I had been on it for a while and was concerned about the

B6. Is there any way I can get tested for B1 deficiency? There is no way my GP

will do this.

What do you think about the alcohol involvement? Is it possible that that

exacerbated my hypo symptoms once I'd stopped taking it and gave me chest pains?

It seems alcohol increases heart rate. How long for any T3 effects to

completely wear off once I'd stopped taking it?

My ferritin could be better I think (I don't have the result to hand but it

wasn't terrible, mid range maybe). What should I be supplementing with to

improve this?

What more things do I need done to rule out any heart problems? I have had

ECGs, troponin test, chest x ray,

Do you think it's possible that I only need a very small amount of T3

replacement anyway?

Many thanks.

>

> In addition to other things B1 deficiency can cause this as well. B complex

should be in your supplement list.

>

> Chronic cortisol and iron deficiency can also induce issues like this - if

these are on the edge of OK then even a small dose of thyroid hormone on top can

tip you over.

>

> You need a proper heart assessment though as others have said.

>

>

>