circadian protocol and ndt

[Guest guest]

How does the above work with ndt? Have read some experience on sttm but how could you do this, ie putting the time back every 2 weeks yet at the same time you need to increase the ndt every 2 weeks? There would have to some choice,is that right,between deciding to move back time by half an hour fortnightly or increasing the ndt? Also, i know this is a very basic question but can't find answer to it-why is it if ndt is not steadily increased until optimal dose reached does hypothyroidism returm? Janet

[Guest guest]

I think it would be recommended that you find your optimal dose

of thyroid extract and then try the Circadian protocol, but may recommend

differently. Increasing your thyroid extract every 3 (not 2) weeks will soon

let you know when you have reached your optimal dose.

To answer your last question, natural thyroid extract has the active

thyroid hormone T3 in it, and T3 is needed by every cell in your body and brain

to make them function. I am assuming that you have started taking natural

thyroid extract because the thyroxine-only was not working as it was not

converting to the active T3. T3 has a very short half life of 2 days in humans.

It peaks in the blood a couple or so hours after taking it (this is why we

advise not taking any thyroid hormone on the morning you have your blood drawn

otherwise, the result would be flawed, showing very high levels in the blood. Your

doctor would likely tell you to decrease your dose with immediate effect, or to

go back onto thyroxine.

You take NDT twice daily to start with, taking half the dose

first thing when you wake and the other half dose around 2.00/3.00p.m. as this

keeps the engine topped up. If you take it all at once in a morning, by the

middle of the afternoon, the effect starts to wear off and you get a 'slump'

and want to have a nap.

The only way to find exactly how much NDT your need is to keep

increasing by half a grain every 3 weeks until you get symptoms of hyperthyroidism.

You then don't take any more that day, and the following day, you go back to

the dose you were taking the day before, and that is usually your optimal dose.

You then continue taking this dose for probably the rest of your life.

Incidentally, thyroid function blood tests are useless when

anybody is taking any form of T3, either synthetic or natural and will always

show a flawed result.

Luv - Sheila

How does the above work with ndt? Have read some experience

on sttm but how could you do this, ie putting the time back every 2 weeks yet

at the same time you need to increase the ndt every 2 weeks? There would have

to some choice,is that right,between deciding to move back time by half an hour

fortnightly or increasing the ndt?

Also, i know this is a very basic question but can't find answer to it-why is

it if ndt is not steadily increased until optimal dose reached does

hypothyroidism returm?

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sheila. Have I interpreted something I've read some where wrongly

then? I thought I'd read that if you didn't keep slowly increasing ndt until

optimal dose is found then hypothyroidsim would return? Am i right/wrong!?!

Janet

>

> I think it would be recommended that you find your optimal dose of thyroid

> extract and then try the Circadian protocol, but may recommend

> differently. Increasing your thyroid extract every 3 (not 2) weeks will soon

> let you know when you have reached your optimal dose.

>

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Janet,

You have correctly read about the feedback loop which can occur if a person

remains on a dose which is too low for too long, as I also recall reading about

it. Increases are required until the optimal dose is reached BUT time must be

allowed between dose increases to allow the new levels of thyroid medication to

take effect within the body. This can take several days if not weeks, due to

the build up of T4, T3 or both within the body and how the body reacts over time

to this increase. Hence Sheila's advice of waiting 3 weeks between increases

because T4 which is in NDT has a longer half life.

Colin

> >

> > I think it would be recommended that you find your optimal dose of thyroid

> > extract and then try the Circadian protocol, but may recommend

> > differently. Increasing your thyroid extract every 3 (not 2) weeks will soon

> > let you know when you have reached your optimal dose.

> >

> [Ed]

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Janet,

I will state again that I am not expert at any of this, but I have been trying

the circadian dosing using NDT. I am definately not yet on my ultimate dose of

NDT and has answered me once or twice and has not said to do anything

differently.

For me, it is working much better than taking my first dose when I got up, which

made me feel like a zombie all day. I started when I was on 1 1/2 grains and

took 1/2 grain at 5am, half at 12 noon and half at 5pm. I have to say that I

felt better from day one.

I now take 1 grain at 4.30am (although I do think my better time is 5am) 1/2

grain at noon and half grain at 5pm. When my dose increases next week, I think I

will add the 1/2 grain at lunchtime to help with pm slump.

I don't know if this will help you at all, but will watch with interest your

progress.

Sue

>

> Hi Janet,

>

> You have correctly read about the feedback loop which can occur if a person

remains on a dose which is too low for too long, as I also recall reading about

it. Increases are required until the optimal dose is reached BUT time must be

allowed between dose increases to allow the new levels of thyroid medication to

take effect within the body.

[Guest guest]

If 3 weeks is a good minimum time to wait to increase your NDT dose...how long

is 'too long' to stay on an NDT dose before increasing? 4 weeks? 5? 6 or 8? does

anyone know?

thanks

>

> Hi Janet, Increases are required until the optimal dose is reached BUT time

must be allowed between dose increases to allow the new levels of thyroid

medication to take effect within the body. This can take several days if not

weeks, due to the build up of T4, T3 or both within the body and how the body

reacts over time to this increase. Hence Sheila's advice of waiting 3 weeks

between increases because T4 which is in NDT has a longer half life.

>

> Colin

[Guest guest]

Thank you Colin, that was it -a negative feedback loop i was thinking of.

Janet

>

> Hi Janet,

>

> You have correctly read about the feedback loop which can occur if a person

remains on a dose which is too low for too long, as I also recall reading about

it. Increases are

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

Thanks for your reply, am waiting for the book so will look into it more -

although am not sure whether ndt is covered in there for circadian dosing,or

just t3, will see. Can I ask whether taking the ndt at that time of day- ie 5pm

disturbs your sleep? I notice some take their t3 at bedtime and then early

morning for cortisol reasons but others say it keeps them from sleeping when

taking at that time. Not sure about about that aspect - I know the adreanl

supports should be avoided after early afternoon but wasn't sure about ndt/t3

having that effect.

Janet

>

> Hi Janet,

>

> I will state again that I am not expert at any of this, but I have been trying

the circadian dosing using NDT. I am definately not yet on my ultimate dose of

NDT and has answered me once or twice and has not said to do anything

differently.

> For me, it is working much better than taking my first

[Guest guest]

Hi Janet,

I can only offer my experience, but I set a small alarm for 5 am. I have a glass

of water nd my grain of NDT plus 100mcgs Vit C in a tiny box at side of bed. I

swig it down and fall straight back to sleep having the best sleep of the night

with quite pleasant dreams. I then wake at 8.30am, even if I don't actally get

up. There is no feeling of 'Oh god I don't want to get up'. I am quite ready to

get out of bed and face the day.

I used to yawn constantly from the time I got up until bed time and this just

doesn't happen, and hasn't since day 1. I would say, try it for a few

days.......no harm done and you could feel great.

Hope that helps

Sue

>

>

> Hi Sue,

>

> Thanks for your reply, am waiting for the book so will look into it more -

although am not sure whether ndt is covered in there for circadian dosing,or

just t3, will see. Can I ask whether taking the ndt at that time of day- ie 5pm

disturbs your sleep? I notice some take their t3 at bedtime and then early

morning for cortisol reasons but others say it keeps them from sleeping when

taking at that time. Not sure about about that aspect - I know the adreanl

supports should be avoided after early afternoon but wasn't sure about ndt/t3

having that effect.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing.

Janet

>

>

> Hi Janet,

>

> I can only offer my experience, but I set a small alarm for 5 am. I have a

glass of water nd my grain of NDT plus 100mcgs Vit C in a tiny box at side of

bed. I swig it down and fall straight back to sleep having the best sleep of the

night with quite pleasant dreams. I then wake at 8.30am, even if I don't actally

get up. There is no feeling of 'Oh god I don't want to get up'. I am quite ready

to get out of bed and face the day.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Janet,

The Circadian T3 Method appears to work exceedingly well with natural thyroid -

at least as well as with T3. I suspect T4/T3 would work well also - only a few

have done this so far and it seems OK. Success rates appear to be at least 70%

and are probably higher than this (this is a very conservative estimate - 80-90

% may be nearer the mark).

So, the important things are:

1. you need to know that you have a cortisol insufficiency issue. Ideally you'll

have had an adrenal saliva test or a 24 hour urinary cortisol done. You need to

know exactly what is happening. For example for those with low daytime cortisol

and high evening cortisol they may need to use an adrenal adaptogen as well as

the CT3M.

2. You need not to have 's disease or hypopituitarism - although the CT3M

won't harm you even if you did - it just wouldn't work.

3. If you are on high levels of hydrocortisone or adrenal support that is

suppressing your own adrenal function then it won't work either - because there

is no demand for your own adrenal production.

4. The T3 contained in the natural thyroid Circadian Dose needs to be at least

9-10 mcgs. Any less will be unlikely to do anything.

The process is simple:

a) you take the starting dose 1.5-2 hours before you get up.

you assess temperature, heart rate and blood pressure (you need a meter) and

symptoms over the following few days.

c) if the results aren't enough then you move the dose back by half and hour.

d) repeat b+c until the dose gets to four hours before you get up but no more.

e) if the results aren't enough then you go back to 1.5-2 hours before you get

up with a little more T3 - 2.5-5 mcgs extra and repeat a-d.

f) the adrenals respond very quickly but then they continue to respond to some

degree over several weeks - so you need to allow more time for response when

fine-tuning. It is like having a dial on the adrenals - turn them up or down.

Neat!

You have to track BP. The results can be so potent in driving adrenal

performance up that it can send blood pressure and blood sugar up. I've seen

this with two different people in the past two weeks. Even a half an hour change

in time can be effective.

If someone is on adrenal support at the same time then judgement needs to be

applied to reduce it when the method appears to be helping (sometimes it may

need to be reduced a little first if the adrenal support is suppressing adrenal

function).

It is definitely helping many people get well and is now being used in the UK,

USA, Sweden, Norway, Australia. Some doctors have contacted me and are beginning

to use it (not in the UK yet as far as I know - although I think Doc P may be

Finola's doctor - so I guess that isn't true anymore).

I don't get notifications from these threads so use me contact email to tell me

there is a message for me. I'd rather respond to you on the forum than by email

directly.

Best wishes,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sheila,

I did read that document, a few times actually....

but I was wondering then...

is 4 weeks the 'maximum' time you should be staying on a dose 'always'? even

when you reach 'higher' doses like 3 grains and higher?

obviously if this document is 'foolproof' then one would think so as it does not

say otherwise...

I was asking as I am approaching the 3 grain 'door' and was just 'curious'

(am on 2.5 right now....)

If someone for example stayed 6 weeks at 3 grains I guess the 'negative effect'

might not kick in as quickly as it would kick in at the really low doses of 1/2

a grain or one grain? x

>

> Check out the attached document. This is 'How to Use natural thyroid

> extract. This is in our FILES SECTION under the folder entitled 'All natural

> Thyroid Extract'. We recommend increasing your dose every 3 to 4 weeks.

>

> Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for taking the time to type the below, that's very helpful. Would you

just clarify something else please? When you say the circadian dose needs to be

at least 9-10mcgs are you referring to the dosage purely in that 4 hour window

before waking, or could that include any that may be also taken at bedtime but

would still be in system during that window? Which brings me on to 2nd question

about whether dose would need splitting or not, ie during the day and/or at

bedtime, or whether it's ok in one dose, ie is there a sort of maximum you can

go to in that one dose? I notice some people are saying they are taking a ndt

dose during the 4 hour window before waking and also at other times of the day

too.

Thanks in advance, Janet

>

> Hi Janet,

>

> The Circadian T3 Method appears to work exceedingly well with natural thyroid

- at least as well as with T3. I suspect T4/T3 would work well also - only a few

have done this so far and it seems OK. Success rates appear to be at least 70%

and are probably higher than this (this is a very conservative estimate - 80-90

% may be nearer the mark).

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

that's great, thank you

so far NOTHING has gone 'wrong' since I've switched to Nature-Throid, and I mean

NOTHING AT ALL!!!

I have switched straight from thyroxine 150mcg to NDT, one day I just stopped

taking the thyroxine and started NDT, 2 grains, I know most people start on less

than 2 grains but this was 'my decision', I started on two divided doses in the

day. I was perfectly ok from day one

I have increased 3 weeks later to 2.5 grains (what I am on now), will stay on

this for 4 weeks and will increase to 3 grains. Never felt/had 'any' hyper

symptoms in my life (yet) and I measure my blood pressure/pulse/temperature

every day and those are still low, temperature has come up closer to normal

though

thank you xxx

>

> Nothing is ever fool proof, but if things start to go wrong when you start

> taking thyroid hormone replacement, you can bet your bottom dollar it is

> because you are suffering with some other condition that is associated with

> hypothyroidism, e.g.

>

> The reasons we recommend increasing every 3 to 4 weeks by 30mgs is that you

> need to find your optimal dose as soon as you can - staying on one dose for

> too long (if it isn't the right dose your body needs) will not help you.

>

> Luv - Sheila