RE: Back again,,,

[Guest guest]

Hi 2There are blood tests for sjogrens which your dr can do. ~I had sjogrens symptoms that showed up after my hypothyroidism was diagnosed. Turned out to be casein related enteropathy, which is basically coeliac disease but with the allergy towards casein in cows milk rather than gluten. Might be worth trying to switch to sheep milk cheese and milk substitutes. 

Jackie

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[Guest guest]

Since Christmas I have been suffering from an extremely dry mouth and eyes, and

made an appointment to get it checked out. This appointment I had to cancel due

to a out of Bronchitis. When I had recovered from the Bronchitis, I went back

to the docs and he suggested that I may have Sjogrens Syndrome. Reading up on

it, he is probably right.

But, since the Bronchitis I have had a return of the IBS type symptoms, and my

TSH has sot up to 4.08. This I believe is caused by the Sjogerns having a flare

up (a bit like Rhumatoid Arthritis has flare ups), as Sjogrens is an

auto-immune condition which affects glands and secretions all over the body (it

dries them up). As an experiment, I ate some wheat believing my IBS had

returned and wasn't caused by the wheat. I found that the Sjogrens IBS is

painless, just diarrhea. Whereas when I eat wheat I get full blown burning,

cramps and pain. Back to gluten free it is then.

As far as I can figure out, the Sjogrens is causing the Thyroid problems, just

by being a flare up of antibodies and a drying up of secretions (thyroid drying

up). I have decided to at least treat the thyroid part of my condition

independently, and have ordered some *Thiroid* from Surplus-thai off ebay.

Can someone confirm that I need to take a 1/4 of a tablet (60mg) a day for the

first week, then add a second 1/4 after lunch for another week. Then increase

to 1/2 & 1/4 then 1/2 & 1/2 weekly. Progressively increasing the

dosage, until I hit hyper symptoms?

Thanks.2

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[Guest guest]

Hello 2

Check out the

attached document and this will tell you how you should treat using natural

thyroid extract. This is the same for whatever brand or generic thyroid extract

you choose to use, but please make sure that your iron levels are good,

especially ferritin (this should be between 980 and 130) and B12, which should

be right at the top of the range. Are your adrenals in good order and do you

have Candida. If so, no amount of thyroid hormone is going to help until these

have been treated.

Was your free T4

and free T3 tested as well as TSH? Just because your thyroid antibody test came

back as negative doesn't mean you don't have antibodies, especially as you

might be suffering Sjogrens. The antibodies may not have been active at the

time your levels were checked so you should remember to keep getting

tested for these. This article should interest you http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/autoimmune-checklist.htm

Luv - Sheila

As far as I can figure out, the Sjogrens is causing the Thyroid problems, just

by being a flare up of antibodies and a drying up of secretions (thyroid drying

up). I have decided to at least treat the thyroid part of my condition

independently, and have ordered some *Thiroid* from Surplus-thai off ebay.

Can someone confirm that I need to take a 1/4 of a tablet (60mg) a day for the

first week, then add a second 1/4 after lunch for another week. Then increase

to 1/2 & 1/4 then 1/2 & 1/2 weekly. Progressively increasing the

dosage, until I hit hyper symptoms?

Thanks.2

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1 of 1 File(s)

A22.HOW TO TREAT WITH NATURAL THYROID EXTRACT.doc

[Guest guest]

My Ferritin is OVER range which points to a chronic disease, my iron was lowish,

I have been supplementing with iron but not too heavily as I don't want the

ferritin to go up too much, plus I have been supplementing with folate as the

results were in the lower half of the range.

I can't afford the adrenal testing, but I used the questionnaire back in

September and didn't have anything worse than probable and retaking the

questionnaire this week only shows a few possibles now.

My B12 was very low, I have been supplementing with 1200mcg sub-lingually (since

september)and I nagged the doctor into giving me one shot of B12.

Doc won't do a Candida test, so I self treated with the flueneron and 3 weeks of

diflucan. I had a small bit of die off symptoms, but not a tremendous amount.

My doctor refuses to do fT3 or fT4, she says that its a ruling by the labs that

they will only test when a TSH is over 5. Again, I cannot afford the testing

again.

I have real problems with my surgery (usual labeling of depressed, overweight,

lazy, carer etc) and have requested a shift to another practice, but this one is

the only practice for 10 miles in any direction (they have 3 branches), we are

not covered by any other practice, so changing practices is in limbo, with PALS

trying to sort something out.

I am pinning my hopes on being referred to a Sjogrens specialist who can do some

TSH and other tests as well.

But in the meantime, whilst waiting for a referral to said specialist, which

could mean asking for a second opinion outside the practice (after another

complaint to PALS), I want to see what NDT does for me.

2

>

> Hello 2

>

> Check out the attached document and this will tell you how you should treat

> using natural thyroid extract. This is the same for whatever brand or

> generic thyroid extract you choose to use, but please make sure that your

> iron levels are good, especially ferritin (this should be between 980 and

> 130) and B12, which should be right at the top of the range.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hello 2,

I had thought I had dropped from the group because my symptoms were being put down as being Sjogrens Syndrome. They still may be Sjogrens Syndrome, but I now have an upped TSH.I remember your mail.... and I thought you'd be back ....Just because you have Sjorgen's, does not mean you are not hypothyroid on top....the trouble with having one auto-immune conditions is that it predisposes you for yet another...Through all this and previous memory has shown that my TSH has always been over 1.65, more often over 2.5 and my latest test, last week, was 4.08. My thyroid antibody test came back negative, so it isn't Hashimoto's. The only time I have been able to afford the fT3 and fT4 tests they came back in their proper part of the range, but that test was taken when I was feeling at my best.

Don't you believe it! (about not having Hashimoto's). Whilst a positive thyroid AA count is diagnostic for Hashimoto's, a negative AA count does not mean you haven't got it.... it just means you can't prove it yet. A negative AA count is not conclusive evidence that your hypothyroid status is not autoimmune. Often the thyroid AA's hide inside the thyroid gland and only a fine needle aspiration directly from the thyroid gland would bring it to light.

But it really does not matter either way – you already have other autoimmune conditions, so whatever the cause of your thyroid condition will be, is irrelevant.... your TSH is rising – ergo your body is deficient of thyroid hormone and you need treatment ... and that is all that counts. Since Christmas I have been suffering from an extremely dry mouth and eyes, and made an appointment to get it checked out. This appointment I had to cancel due to a out of Bronchitis. When I had recovered from the Bronchitis, I went back to the docs and he suggested that I may have Sjogrens Syndrome. Reading up on it, he is probably right.Yes, probably.....but having Sjorgen's does not rule out being hypothyroid as well.As far as I can figure out, the Sjogrens is causing the Thyroid problems, just by being a flare up of antibodies and a drying up of secretions (thyroid drying up). I have decided to at least treat the thyroid part of my condition independently, and have ordered some *Thiroid* from Surplus-thai off ebay.

Good on you ! Can someone confirm that I need to take a 1/4 of a tablet (60mg –60 mg would be 1 grain!) a day for the first week, then add a second 1/4 after lunch for another week. Then increase to 1/2 & 1/4 then 1/2 & 1/2 weekly. Progressively increasing the dosage, until I hit hyper symptoms?Almost right, but not quite ;o) ....

Take either ½ grain (30 mcg) in one go in the mornings, at least one hour before breakfast or take ¼ grain (15 mg) at that time and another ¼ grain in the afternoon (also in between meals – and one hour before your next meal) if you are particularly sensitive. Only you can judge how sensitive you are. Most people tolerate ½ grain (half a tablet of thiroyd) straight off. Subsequent increases, however, are best taken in divided doses.

If this is your first attempt of taking thyroid hormone, stick with ½ grain (either split or taken at once in the mornings) for about 3-4 weeks. Whatever you do – do NOT increase any faster than every 3-4 weeks by another ½ grain, even if you feel you want to. It takes a body about 4 weeks to level out the thyroid hormones we supplement. If you increase any faster than that, it will backfire and you will have to start again... trust me.

Go up every 3-4 weeks by another ½ grain. You will feel changes to your body – listen to what it happening. When you get slight hyperthyroid symptoms (shortness of breath, palpitations, sweating, pains in your legs) cut back to your last dose and stay there. Do not expect everything will be sorted after a few months – it won't. It takes at best 8 -12 months before you will be back to normal, but it can take longer. But although it might be a bumpy ride, you should steadily improve. If you do not, then something else is wrong and you have to find out what that is...

I think you are doing the right thing by taking NDT... fingers crossed that all will go smoothly ;o)

My Ferritin is OVER range which points to a chronic disease, my iron was lowish, I have been supplementing with iron but not too heavily as I don't want the ferritin to go up too much, plus I have been supplementing with folate as the results were in the lower half of the range.

If your ferritin is high but your other iron results are low, the high ferritin is caused by chronic inflammation.... ie. possibly your Sjorgen's. You would still be iron deficient and need to supplement....Folate is a different matter.

I can't afford the adrenal testing, but I used the questionnaire back in September and didn't have anything worse than probable and retaking the questionnaire this week only shows a few possibles now.

I would still start on adrenal support for at least 7-10 days before starting on Thiroyd, just to be on the safe side. You can always stop the NAX after a month or so if you did not need it, but it is difficult to introduce it whilst you are on thyroid medication, if it then turned out you needed it after all....My B12 was very low, I have been supplementing with 1200mcg sub-lingually (since september) and I nagged the doctor into giving me one shot of B12.

And did he? - hope so!I am pinning my hopes on being referred to a Sjogrens specialist who can do some TSH and other tests as well.

Once you start on NDT, your TSH will pretty quickly go down and become suppressed.... this is normal for anyone on NDT. It might not be helpful for your specialist to do another thyroid test, as you will just be told that everything is normal, or – worse – that you should stop the thyroid hormone because your TSH is suppressed... But in the meantime, whilst waiting for a referral to said specialist, which could mean asking for a second opinion outside the practice (after another complaint to PALS), I want to see what NDT does for me.

Please be aware, that once you start taking thyroid hormone, your TSH will become suppressed and your FT4 and FT3 will show normal values.... so depending on which lab test is ordered, the specialists won't find anything wrong, except a possibly suppressed TSH, and you might be told to stop the medication.... which, of course, would be the wrong thing to do.

Your best ally will be a feeling of wellbeing – it is hard for a doctor to argue against success ... But anyone who self-treats will have to learn to defend what they are doing. There could be a lot of pressure from doctors to stop your medication.... so learn and read all you can, so that you can stand your ground when you need to.

With best wishes and good luck,

[Guest guest]

Hi

2, how much is your ferritin over the range. I think when they start to

worry, it is often around 800 to 1000 or over. Some people naturally have a

ferritin high in the range or a little over the top, I am one of them, but I am

perfectly healthy and happy and it presents no problem.

Adrenal

fatigue can change in a flash, depending on your lifestyle and stresses and September

last is 6 months ago, so I would do the adrenal questionnaire again to see how

you score. Do the Dr Thierry Hertoghe adrenal questionnaire as this covers

other possible hormone deficiencies and also the straight forward adrenal

questionnaire and see how you score now.

What

effect did that one dose of B12 injection have on you?

I

would ask your GP WHY he refuses to test to see if you are suffering with

systemic candidiasis. Candidiasis, is a common yeast infection that is due primarily

to the overgrowth of Candida

albicans and other species of Candida,

which are part of the normal flora. Candidiasis can cause a variety of other

infections, and can become systemic (affecting the whole of the body – especially in

those who are

immunocompromised. Your GP's refusal to do such a test could seriously

compromise your health if it is found that you do have candida Albicans,

and this is left untreated. Thyroid hormone cannot be utilised successfully

until such a disease has been recognised and treated. I you doing the strict diet

associated with Candida. See our FILES section thyroid treatment/files/

and check out the CANDIDA folder.

You

should also ask your GP to show you the rules to show that a laboratory cannot

test free T4 and free T3. These are legal tests and these are needed for those

suffering with both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid symptoms. The 'Guidelines on

Thyroid Function Testing 2006' by the British Thyroid Association and the

Association of Clinical Biochemists recommend that TSH and a measure of free T4

is tested and TPO and TgAb antibodies. The Royal College of Physician's also

states categorically that TSH and free T4 should be tested. So where has your

GP got this information from. You can give her the links http://www.british-thyroid-association.org/info-for-patients/Docs/TFT_guideline_final_version_July_2006.pdf

and

http://www.british-thyroid-association.org/news/Docs/hypothyroidism_statement.pdf

.. We do allow our doctors to get away with murder and we should all the time be

challenging them. This information you are being given is incorrect.

Just

make absolutely sure that you do not need to boost your adrenals before

starting any thyroid hormone replacement, because it will be a complete waste

of your money and time buying NDT if you have not done this. Your iron levels

need to be well in the reference range, as should your B12, vit D3, magnesium,

folate, copper and zinc, otherwise, any thyroid hormone replacement cannot be

fully utilised at the cellular level and you will carry on with your symptoms.

Luv

- Sheila

I am pinning my hopes on being referred to a Sjogrens specialist who can do

some TSH and other tests as well.

But in the meantime, whilst waiting for a referral to said specialist, which

could mean asking for a second opinion outside the practice (after another

complaint to PALS), I want to see what NDT does for me.

2

[Guest guest]

hi , a 1/2 grain would be OK to start with. then after 10 days add the other 1/2 grain. wait one month and if symptoms are not resolvingtry another 1.2 grain. in the am before breakfast. if a little jumpy you could take 1 grain 60mcg in the am and 1.2 in the pm. see how you go and ask us if you need any more help. are the one`s you ordered the thyroid-S if so this may be a good choice to start with. these have a slow release coating so no big spurts of T3. Angel.

[Guest guest]

Hi there, are you on a gluten free diet. this may be helpful as i found my candida was caused by a gluten sensitivity.Angel.

[Guest guest]

Totally gluten free, except for the two mouthfuls I had to test if my IBS was

caused by wheat or the Sjogrens.

I a seeing my doctor on Tuesday so will ask then for a Candida test.

2

>

> Hi there, are you on a gluten free diet. this may be helpful as i found my

candida was caused by a gluten sensitivity.

> Angel.

>

[Guest guest]

I did do a repeat, 3 weeks ago, of Dr Hertoghe's questionnaire and

have had improvements across the board, so that only a few have 'possible' and

most are O.K. .

My Ferritin was only 256, but a repeat should have been done at the

last round of bloods and wasn't.

The injection of B12 took about 10 days to take effect. There was a lovely

'whoosh' of energy, but the doc decided that as I didn't feel it immediately

then I didn't need any more. I suspect that if I had felt the immediate effects

I would have been told that it had worked

therefore I didn't need any more. Catch 22.

28/02/2012

TSH 4.08 no ft3 or ft4 done.

Early December 2012 tests show.

Iron 13 (11-29)

TIBC 50 (49 (70)

Ferritin 256 (14- 180)

Transferrin

Saturation

Index 26%

TSH 1.92 (0.25 - 5.00)

Mid November 2011 tests

TSH 1.67 (0.25 - 5.00)

Folate 8.0 (4.6- 18.7)

B12 273 (200 -950)

Mid April 2011

TSH 2.24 (0.25 - 5.00)

I have been heavily supplementing everything you suggest since

September, except for the iron, which I take a normal iron tablet for plus what

is in my multi vitamin.

I have tried to read the documents below and can't pinpoint what I

should be looking for. In fact it gave me a headache by page 18. Plus I can't

see me giving my doctor the Royal College of Physicians document as it says

everything she thinks, only a level over 10 should be treated and only with T4,

and no T3 should ever be given.

I will write a letter asking for the reasons why the labs refuse the

tests (not that I think its the labs, of course).

I just seem to have a very antagonistic doctors practice, I'm just not behaving

properly, I'm not taking their word as given and bowing down and worshiping at

their feet. In fact I am an avid enthusiast in that most heinous of crimes,

looking up symptoms on the internet and demanding blood tests and actual

doctoring from the doctors.

Basically I have a bunch of lazy doctors who have already made up

their minds about my condition and will not move from it. I am a carer, I am

overweight, I don't exercise at the gym 5 times a week and I say I am tired all

the time. Ergo I am depressed, take these anti-depressants, which is a big load

of bollocks.

I have been heavily supplementing everything you suggest since

September, except for the iron, which I take a normal iron tablet for plus what

is in my multi vitamin.

2

Hi 2, how much is your ferritin over the range.

Do the Dr Thierry Hertoghe adrenal

questionnaire as this covers other possible hormone deficiencies and also the

straight forward adrenal questionnaire and see how you score now.

What effect did that one dose of B12 injection have on you?

I would ask your GP WHY he refuses to test to see if you are suffering with

systemic candidiasis.

You should also ask your GP to show you the rules to show that a laboratory

cannot test free T4 and free T3.

Your iron levels need to be well in the reference range, as should your B12, vit

D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc, otherwise, any thyroid hormone

replacement cannot be fully utilised at the cellular level and you will carry on

with your symptoms.

>

> Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I asked for my doctor for a Candida Albicans test.................. She

said.....

No such test exists!!!!!!

Now what do I do? I am trying to switch surgeries, BUT, we are very rural and

the only 3 surgeries that we could come under, are all part of the same

practice. I have PALS trying to persuade some of the surgeries 10 miles away to

take me and my family on, but no such luck yet.

2

>

> I would ask your GP WHY he refuses to test to see if you are suffering with

> systemic candidiasis. Candidiasis, is a common yeast infection that is due

> primarily to the overgrowth of Candida albicans and other species of

> Candida, which are part of the normal flora. Candidiasis can cause a variety

> of other infections, and can become systemic (affecting the whole of the

> body - especially in those who are immunocompromised. Your GP's refusal to

> do such a test could seriously compromise your health if it is found that

> you do have candida Albicans, and this is left untreated. Thyroid hormone

> cannot be utilised successfully until such a disease has been recognised and

> treated. I you doing the strict diet associated with Candida. See our FILES

> section thyroid treatment/files/

> and check out the CANDIDA folder.

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Help further your doctors education 2. Give her the

following link http://www.labtestsonline.org.uk/home/SearchForm?Search=candida & action_ProcessSphinxSearchForm=Go

.. There are several other tests for Candida that can be done. I would telephone

your local laboratory and ask if they do test for candida and see what they

say. You may need to get it done privately, but do this through Genova in order

to qualify for the discount for TPA members. It is best to get this test done

if you suspect this may be a problem so you can get on with the required

treatment.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila,

I asked for my doctor for a Candida Albicans test.................. She

said.....

No such test exists!!!!!!

Now what do I do? I am trying to switch surgeries, BUT, we are very rural and

the only 3 surgeries that we could come under, are all part of the same

practice. I have PALS trying to persuade some of the surgeries 10 miles away to

take me and my family on, but no such luck yet.

2

>

> I would ask your GP WHY he refuses to test to see if you are suffering

with

> systemic candidiasis. Candidiasis, is a common yeast infection that is due

> primarily to the overgrowth of Candida albicans and other species of

> Candida, which are part of the normal flora. Candidiasis can cause a

variety

> of other infections, and can become systemic (affecting the whole of the

> body - especially in those who are immunocompromised. Your GP's refusal to

> do such a test could seriously compromise your health if it is found that

> you do have candida Albicans, and this is left untreated. Thyroid hormone

> cannot be utilised successfully until such a disease has been recognised

and

> treated. I you doing the strict diet associated with Candida. See our

FILES

> section thyroid treatment/files/

> and check out the CANDIDA folder.

> Luv - Sheila

>

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