Pica

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 3:36:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

cmagnussen@... writes:

> Farm life is not the place for a kid with Pica, that's for sure.

LOLOL Cheryl. I would guess not. But then, city life isn't much better.

Miss Maddie escaped on Sunday while I was searching for her sneakers. Duff

heard the door and ran to find her heading right for the car tires (she likes

to lick them). He said, if it weren't for the fact that we REALLY don't

want her munching on ROAD KILL, having the car there would work as a good

deterent from running away.....;-)

BTW, pica is found often in kids with autism. Dont' know the stats, just

know that there's a correlation.

Donna

P.S. Maddie is queen of the line ups now. She is lining up EVERYTHING.

The kids think it's a riot.

[Guest guest]

What is Pica? Sorry new to this. But my daughter licks everything to. She

thinks it is funny when I reprimand her. I ll try to look it up.

Diane (mom to Rochelle 5ds and Danny 7)

[Guest guest]

At 04:29 AM 10/9/01 -0000, you wrote:

\he did not

>want to discuss about it .

ROFL!!! well, I wouldn't want to talk about it either you know. What's he

mad about?

a side note. I know a young man, age 30, who is quite well-known and has

DS-only. He lives on his own and works at an ARC. He is quite capable if he

focuses. But he has increasing sleep apnea issues secondary to weight gain

(though he's not huge). Anyway. When he's upset with himself or depressed,

he cuts his hair. Just takes the scissors and cuts square chunks off of his

head. Looks hideous. Once he shaved one side of his head. Just one side.

Once he cut his eybrows with scissors (that was odd looking). But it's

always related to a problem he can't solve so he engages in negative

self-talk and ends up with this form of self-mutilation. This is often

accompanied by poor job performance (falling asleep in meetings), poor

housekeeping (they've threatened to evict him a few times), and so on. He

just goes down this negative spiral and has trouble picking himself back up.

Just thought I'd share.

Maybe this guy ate the eyebrows b/c he thought his Mom wouldn't notice he

plucked them out if they weren't in the garbage? Just a thought....

j

[Guest guest]

Is it just me or does it seem like there is a high rate of kids with DS-ASD who

also have Pica? It sure looks like a high number of our kids seem to have it.

Has anyone seen stats on this? Angel also has Pica, which wasn't very

surprising. Took her into the ped who took stock on the non-edibles entering

her tummy and immediately replied " yes she has Pica " . Oh, one more question: has

anyone's kids had worms, pin and round, from eating all the goodies they come

across? Angel has some nice sized blood in her stool today. Think they are

likely due to a worm, but the blood spots are larger than that of a pin worm. I

am constantly deworming this girl for pin worm as is. Farm life is not the

place for a kid with Pica, that's for sure. Way too much tasty stuff in those

barns! LOL!

Cheryl

Re: Re: pica

At 04:29 AM 10/9/01 -0000, you wrote:

\he did not

>want to discuss about it .

ROFL!!! well, I wouldn't want to talk about it either you know. What's he

mad about?

a side note. I know a young man, age 30, who is quite well-known and has

DS-only. He lives on his own and works at an ARC. He is quite capable if he

focuses. But he has increasing sleep apnea issues secondary to weight gain

(though he's not huge). Anyway. When he's upset with himself or depressed,

he cuts his hair. Just takes the scissors and cuts square chunks off of his

head. Looks hideous. Once he shaved one side of his head. Just one side.

Once he cut his eybrows with scissors (that was odd looking). But it's

always related to a problem he can't solve so he engages in negative

self-talk and ends up with this form of self-mutilation. This is often

accompanied by poor job performance (falling asleep in meetings), poor

housekeeping (they've threatened to evict him a few times), and so on. He

just goes down this negative spiral and has trouble picking himself back up.

Just thought I'd share.

Maybe this guy ate the eyebrows b/c he thought his Mom wouldn't notice he

plucked them out if they weren't in the garbage? Just a thought....

j

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 4:57:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dben937342@... writes:

>

>

>

>

>

> What is Pica? Sorry new to this. But my daughter licks everything to. She

> thinks it is funny when I reprimand her. I ll try to look it up.

>

>

S'ok Diane. Pica is more than licking. It's when the person with the

condition actually ingests food and has obsessions to do so. For example,

my daughter Maddie (7 1/2, DS and autism) searches and is obsessed with soap

and candles. She'd polish off a bar of soap or a candle stick in a second

if not caught in time. Also, she scrapes her head to try and get as much

shampoo bubbles from her head every time I shampoo her. It's a real

obsession.

Donna

[Guest guest]

Thanks for answering Donna,

I have never heard of this. You all have taught me so much and so short a

time. I just want you to know I wish I could help. I am printing some of the

info for future reference.

Diane (mom to Roe ds5 & Danny 7)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 12:36:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

cmagnussen@... writes:

<< I am constantly deworming this girl for pin worm as is. Farm life is not

the place for a kid with Pica, that's for sure. Way too much tasty stuff in

those barns! LOL!

Cheryl >>

ROTFLOL!!!!!!! Sorry. Got me thinking about when I took Seth to the fair

to see the elephants. I was so careful not to let him bend over in his

stroller and pick up anything off the ground. Never entered my mind that

although he was bent over with his hands behind him, in plain view, that he

was licking the elephant dung off the wheels. LOL Talk about a feast! LOL

Glad I can laugh about it.....NOW. LOL Nope, wouldn't want to live on a

farm with Seth for sure. It does seem like a lot of our kids have this

problem, doesn't it.

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 1:10:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, duffey48@...

writes:

<< P.S. Maddie is queen of the line ups now. She is lining up EVERYTHING.

The kids think it's a riot. >>

LOL Donna, beats eating road kill, candles or soap, climbing on banisters and

along roofs huh? LOL

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 4:49:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, duffey48@...

writes:

<< S'ok Diane. Pica is more than licking. It's when the person with the

condition actually ingests food and has obsessions to do so. For example,

my daughter Maddie (7 1/2, DS and autism) searches and is obsessed with soap

and candles. She'd polish off a bar of soap or a candle stick in a second

if not caught in time. Also, she scrapes her head to try and get as much

shampoo bubbles from her head every time I shampoo her. It's a real

obsession.

Donna

>>

Yeah, I say Seth is like a shark in a feeding frenzy when it comes to

plaster, wood and feces. He is totally oblivious to anything or one around

him. Kind of like his Dad with that! LOL Not the pica, just being

oblivious. LOL

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

Wow, Gail, elephant dung........that sounds very tasty.........to a kid with

pica that is! LOL! Angel really has a thing for kitty litter, cat feces, the

goat droppings and also for mouldy old hay. Almost pukes at the smell of the

chicken barn, but eats everything in the goat and sheep barn. She really hates

the smell of her own BM's and gags over them when she gets one in the toilet.

But, if she finds it in her panties, then it's great eating and smearing fun.

The funniest one was her sister's new purple rain coat. Really likes a good

soft plastic. Ate her own last year too. The best one was when she filled her

mouth with toothpaste only to discover she had her dad's rather than hers,

really hates the minty taste of his toothpaste. Stopped that one for a bit.

Shampoo drinking really gets me. As well as the cat poo breath. It's a killer.

Think she could develop a thing for Scope???? I thought I would have to avoid

the zoo as Angel fears alot of zoo type animals.........now I see I shall need

to avoid it for the great feces that lie within. LOL!

Thanks for the laugh. Oh,and common now girl......you just bring that Seth over

anytime to visit.

Cheryl

Re: Re: pica

In a message dated 10/9/01 12:36:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

cmagnussen@... writes:

<< I am constantly deworming this girl for pin worm as is. Farm life is not

the place for a kid with Pica, that's for sure. Way too much tasty stuff in

those barns! LOL!

Cheryl >>

ROTFLOL!!!!!!! Sorry. Got me thinking about when I took Seth to the fair

to see the elephants. I was so careful not to let him bend over in his

stroller and pick up anything off the ground. Never entered my mind that

although he was bent over with his hands behind him, in plain view, that he

was licking the elephant dung off the wheels. LOL Talk about a feast! LOL

Glad I can laugh about it.....NOW. LOL Nope, wouldn't want to live on a

farm with Seth for sure. It does seem like a lot of our kids have this

problem, doesn't it.

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

LOL Seth eats his coats too, but just the plastic ones. LOL As for the

kitty litter, same here. I made a kitty litter cake for him. Ever make one?

You put it all in a litter pan when it's done. Looks like the real thing

and you melt baby tootsie rolls and hang over the side of the pan and hide

them in the *litter*. LOL Seth hated the edible stuff. LOL You even color

some of the cake green to look like chlorophyll specks. LOL Looks like the

real thing! Hmmmmm, Scope huh? LOL I have been tempted to give Seth a good

douse of it from time to time. LOL We were at a fenced in park the other

day and I looked at Seth and he had an old cigar hanging from his mouth. I

was so angry thinking some guy left his stinky old butt in a kids park. Went

and took it from Seth's mouth and it was a dog turd. Ewwwwwww! A hard,

whitish turd and he had it in his mouth. GROSS!!!!! Now he's into picking

his nose and eating it. Ohhhhhh, I have to go get a Tums. This stuff

grosses me out so bad. LOL If I could choose, I'd pick shampoo or soap for

him to desire anyday. LOL It would make it a whole lot easier to give him

the sloppy kisses he wants. LOL Luck and prayers for us all, huh?

Gail :-)

<< Wow, Gail, elephant dung........that sounds very tasty.........to a kid

with pica that is! LOL! Angel really has a thing for kitty litter, cat

feces, the goat droppings and also for mouldy old hay. Almost pukes at the

smell of the chicken barn, but eats everything in the goat and sheep barn.

She really hates the smell of her own BM's and gags over them when she gets

one in the toilet. But, if she finds it in her panties, then it's great

eating and smearing fun. The funniest one was her sister's new purple rain

coat. Really likes a good soft plastic. Ate her own last year too. The

best one was when she filled her mouth with toothpaste only to discover she

had her dad's rather than hers, really hates the minty taste of his

toothpaste. Stopped that one for a bit. Shampoo drinking really gets me.

As well as the cat poo breath. It's a killer. Think she could develop a

thing for Scope???? I thought I would have to avoid the zoo as Angel fears

alot of zoo type animals.........now I see I shall need to avoid it for the

great feces that lie within. LOL!

Thanks for the laugh. Oh,and common now girl......you just bring that Seth

over anytime to visit.

Cheryl >>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 10:25:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> LOL Donna, beats eating road kill, candles or soap, climbing on banisters

> and

> along roofs huh? LOL

> Gail :-)

>

Cept she's still doing all the other things GAil....LOL She has been doing

some really funny things lately. The other day, she slid down the kitchen

banister. Hey, all my other kids did that too!!!! And Sunday night, Duff

and I were in the kitchen getting dinner ready, we turn around and she's

looking down at us from the top of the steps with her big brother's giant ski

glasses on.............LOLOLOLOL Took them off before I had time to grab

the camera.

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 10:27:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> Never entered my mind that

> although he was bent over with his hands behind him, in plain view, that he

> was licking the elephant dung off the wheels. LOL Talk about a feast!

> LOL

> Glad I can laugh about it.....NOW.

LOLOLOL Gail. YUK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Donna

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/9/01 10:37:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smilinggail@... writes:

> It's when the person with the

> condition actually ingests food and has obsessions to do so

Oops. I meant ingests LIKE food.....sorry!!!

Donna

[Guest guest]

HI Gail,

What a great cake recipe!!! I wouldn't mind making one of those cakes. Made me

laugh just

thinking about what the cake would look like.

You paint a great picture of your park experience. Thanks for an early morning

laugh!!!!

Kathy

Re: Re: pica

Cheryl,

LOL Seth eats his coats too, but just the plastic ones. LOL As for the

kitty litter, same here. I made a kitty litter cake for him. Ever make one?

You put it all in a litter pan when it's done. Looks like the real thing

and you melt baby tootsie rolls and hang over the side of the pan and hide

them in the *litter*. LOL Seth hated the edible stuff. LOL You even color

some of the cake green to look like chlorophyll specks. LOL Looks like the

real thing! Hmmmmm, Scope huh? LOL I have been tempted to give Seth a good

douse of it from time to time. LOL We were at a fenced in park the other

day and I looked at Seth and he had an old cigar hanging from his mouth. I

was so angry thinking some guy left his stinky old butt in a kids park. Went

and took it from Seth's mouth and it was a dog turd. Ewwwwwww! A hard,

whitish turd and he had it in his mouth. GROSS!!!!! Now he's into picking

his nose and eating it. Ohhhhhh, I have to go get a Tums. This stuff

grosses me out so bad. LOL If I could choose, I'd pick shampoo or soap for

him to desire anyday. LOL It would make it a whole lot easier to give him

the sloppy kisses he wants. LOL Luck and prayers for us all, huh?

Gail :-)

<< Wow, Gail, elephant dung........that sounds very tasty.........to a kid

with pica that is! LOL! Angel really has a thing for kitty litter, cat

feces, the goat droppings and also for mouldy old hay. Almost pukes at the

smell of the chicken barn, but eats everything in the goat and sheep barn.

She really hates the smell of her own BM's and gags over them when she gets

one in the toilet. But, if she finds it in her panties, then it's great

eating and smearing fun. The funniest one was her sister's new purple rain

coat. Really likes a good soft plastic. Ate her own last year too. The

best one was when she filled her mouth with toothpaste only to discover she

had her dad's rather than hers, really hates the minty taste of his

toothpaste. Stopped that one for a bit. Shampoo drinking really gets me.

As well as the cat poo breath. It's a killer. Think she could develop a

thing for Scope???? I thought I would have to avoid the zoo as Angel fears

alot of zoo type animals.........now I see I shall need to avoid it for the

great feces that lie within. LOL!

Thanks for the laugh. Oh,and common now girl......you just bring that Seth

over anytime to visit.

Cheryl >>

--------------------------------------------------

Checkout our homepage for information, bookmarks, and photos of

our kids. Share favorite bookmarks, ideas, and other information by including

them. Don't forget, messages are a permanent record of the archives for our

list.

--------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/10/01 5:42:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

duffey48@... writes:

<< Cept she's still doing all the other things GAil....LOL She has been

doing

some really funny things lately. The other day, she slid down the kitchen

banister. Hey, all my other kids did that too!!!! And Sunday night, Duff

and I were in the kitchen getting dinner ready, we turn around and she's

looking down at us from the top of the steps with her big brother's giant

ski

glasses on.............LOLOLOLOL Took them off before I had time to grab

the camera.

Donna >>

Oh what a pic that would have been! ROTFLOL!!!!!! You'll need to wear that

camera around your neck and snap fast and post one of those happy pics Donna.

Does the heart good to see these things.

Gail :-)

[Guest guest]

some kids with autism have OCD-like behaviors and get fixated on something once they do it...(unfortunately)...Sally>>

Now I take that as an understatement, Sally, lol.

[Guest guest]

My own son loves to make cartoon voices...so hard to stop verbal stims like that(sigh:) I agree, it was a MASSIVE understatement, LOL....Sally

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 14/02/2006 14:25:49 GMT Standard Time, MaddiganV@... writes:

He used to love soap when he was younger and would eagerly eat a whole tube of toothpaste, when I added zinc he stopped, now he has restarted. Does anyone know if this is indicitive of anything?

>>>Zinc is often a success with pica - didn't help much with Sam though.

Maybe he needs a bit extra zinc now again? One or other of the range minerals usually helps, easy enough to try anyways.

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Thanks Mandi, he is on 20mg Kirkmans Zinc at the moment, is it O.K. to just give him another capsules somewhere in the day?

TIA

Vicky

xx

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 14/02/2006 15:45:03 GMT Standard Time, MaddiganV@... writes:

Thanks Mandi, he is on 20mg Kirkmans Zinc at the moment, is it O.K. to just give him another capsules somewhere in the day?

>>>>I give more than that.

DAN! regular dosing for loading is weight + 20 pounds in mgs - ir if your kid was 50 pounds and you were loading due to high copper low zinc or pre chelation, then you would give in the region of 70mgs zinc per day.

I gave several different types because never been sure which was best, we do ioninc, monomethione and chelate. I have picinolate too but that gave my headache when I took it so don;t use that much. I like the Metabolics Ioninc to top up best.

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 14/02/2006 18:01:08 GMT Standard Time, sallygeorge@... writes:

He stopped chewing the furniture and moved onto paper and threads from towels but recently is back to chewing paper madly and ripping up everyones homework, books etc. Dr Heard thinks it is Magnesium or Zinc which he has loads of every day though obviously not absorbing very well.

>>>If Sam chews brown paper - that bacteria Do I sound like Dana LOL???? Bizzare but true

Bacteria here - red dry sore looking patches around eyes and or mouth, sticky dark stools, stinky stools and chewing brown paper.......................

Mandi x

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicky,

I had a phone consultation with Dr Usman last Thursday.

We discussed many things - including Callum's mouthing and biting

plastic. He seeks it out constantly and chews and dribbles all the

time :-(

Sometimes it is more pronounced - like right now. My wife's just

told me he's chewed through the Playstation (we got him for Xmas)

cables :-(

Dr Usman re-checked Callum's latest full test results (Oct / Nov

2005).

She advised that he is low in Magnesium, Calcium and Iron. His Zinc

is ok though. She explained that low Magnesium can cause Pica /

chewing, etc. We have some new meds arriving soon including some

Magnesium Malate and Glycinate (?).

Also Dr Usman did explain that Callum is already now naturally

detoxing :-) without Chelation (although we are starting to introduce

this slowly ourselves now).

As a result his increased agression and biting could be related to

metals moving. Callum also has the typical detox red dry rashes on

his face and body (mainly his face).

Hope this helps (a little)?

Cheers,

Steve, Joanne, Callum & Ellie-Mae

- XXXX -

>

> Not sure if this is strictly pica, but has started to seek out

> soapy stuff to rub on his skin and even drink!

> Caught him with Flash yesterday, I had only bought it recently and

it

> was a new mix which smells much more soapy and less bleachy than

the

> usual stuff, everything is now safely locked away.

> He used to love soap when he was younger and would eagerly eat a

whole

> tube of toothpaste, when I added zinc he stopped, now he has

restarted.

> Does anyone know if this is indicitive of anything?

> TIA

> Vicky

> xx

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, this is really interesting to me as we

also have a chewer! on started back

when he was first diagnosed my picking all the skin off his lips until they

were raw. Then he progressed to biting the edge of tables, video cupboard etc

so everything looked like we had a beaver in the house.

He stopped chewing the furniture and moved

onto paper and threads from towels but recently is back to chewing paper madly

and ripping up everyones homework, books etc. Dr Heard thinks it is Magnesium

or Zinc which he has loads of every day though obviously not absorbing very

well.

It is one of the constant problems that he

has and it would be wonderful to overcome it.

Sally in Manchester

From: Autism Treatment [mailto:Autism Treatment ] On Behalf Of Steve Lodge

Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006

4:42 PM

Autism Treatment

Subject:

Re: Pica

Hi Vicky,

I had a phone consultation with Dr Usman last

Thursday.

We discussed many things - including Callum's

mouthing and biting

plastic. He seeks it out constantly and

chews and dribbles all the

time :-(

Sometimes it is more pronounced - like right

now. My wife's just

told me he's chewed through the Playstation (we

got him for Xmas)

cables :-(

Dr Usman re-checked Callum's latest full test

results (Oct / Nov

2005).

She advised that he is low in Magnesium, Calcium

and Iron. His Zinc

is ok though. She explained that low

Magnesium can cause Pica /

chewing, etc. We have some new meds arriving

soon including some

Magnesium Malate and Glycinate (?).

Also Dr Usman did explain that Callum is already

now naturally

detoxing :-) without Chelation (although we are

starting to introduce

this slowly ourselves now).

As a result his increased agression and biting

could be related to

metals moving. Callum also has the typical

detox red dry rashes on

his face and body (mainly his face).

Hope this helps (a little)?

Cheers,

Steve, Joanne, Callum & Ellie-Mae

- XXXX -

>

> Not sure if this is strictly pica, but

has started to seek out

> soapy stuff to rub on his skin and even

drink!

> Caught him with Flash yesterday, I had

only bought it recently and

it

> was a new mix which smells much more soapy

and less bleachy than

the

> usual stuff, everything is now safely locked

away.

> He used to love soap when he was

younger and would eagerly eat a

whole

> tube of toothpaste, when I added zinc he

stopped, now he has

restarted.

> Does anyone know if this is

indicitive of anything?

> TIA

> Vicky

> xx

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Mandi, yes you are probably

right! He has clostridia and yeast so spoke with Dr Heard and he has a

plan of action. 1 Week antibiotics, then pile in with the probiotics then 1

week later do antifungals. I have also sent my sample off to Paris today and am

looking into LOD after the Owen piece, got appointment with Muscroft

next week. I am in attack mode at the moment!!

Sally in Manchester

From: Autism Treatment [mailto:Autism Treatment ] On Behalf Of Mum231ASD@...

Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006

6:57 PM

Autism Treatment

Subject: Re:

Re: Pica

In a message dated 14/02/2006 18:01:08

GMT Standard Time, sallygeorge@... writes:

He stopped chewing the furniture and moved onto paper and threads

from towels but recently is back to chewing paper madly and ripping up

everyones homework, books etc. Dr Heard thinks it is Magnesium or Zinc

which he has loads of every day though obviously not absorbing very well.

>>>If Sam chews brown paper -

that bacteria Do I sound like Dana LOL???? Bizzare but true

Bacteria here - red dry sore looking patches

around eyes and or mouth, sticky dark stools, stinky stools and chewing brown

paper.......................

Mandi x