Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

[Guest guest]

Actually the gross income amount is $3,400 for the year 2007.

Jean

-------------- Original message --------------

From: G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...>

Just saw our accountant this past week, who clarified claiming as a dependent.

If your child, disabled or not, is a full-time student and under 25, s/he is a

dependent. The full-time student status includes transition programs or college,

even for part of the year.

If the " child " is not a full-time student, this gets trickier, but it does

relate to his/her income. Accountant says if the " child " is not a full-time

student and earns $3,000 or more, then s/he is not claimable, regardless of the

amount spent by the parents on support. That $3,000 does not include SSI, which

is not taxed, per SSA.

Which means that Neal is a dependent for 2007 tax year, but, if he ever gets

called back from layoff or gets a new full-time job, he won't be for 2008.

If this helps anyone, I'll be glad.

-Gail

momofchris2007 <slpanda2@...> wrote: Gloria, does your daughter work?

My son is DS and we do not claim

him as he files his own taxes. With the SSD he gets and with the

money he makes working we can not claim we pay more then 1/2 of his

expenses. Also, if she has savings I believe she can only have up to

$2,000.00 in assets too. We went to a lawyer and asked a lot of

questions. has SSD due to the fact his father died when he was

young so I know our situation is different. could have more

the $2,000.00 but not since he just started receiving Medicaid. It

is so confusing. Good luck. Shirley

>

> Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

My

> daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

$500/mo,

> not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

of

> the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

would

> still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

a

> counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

IRS

> because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

The

> intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

try an

> apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

cannot

> see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

to

> get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

low

> income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

thank you for this. It does help us with talking points when we meet with

our person . Cindi

[Guest guest]

Gail, the information you were given is not entirely correct. A disabled child

bypasses the age requirement. The following is from the IRS website

(www.irs.gov):

Qualifying child.

To be your dependent (defined earlier), a person must be either your qualifying

child or your qualifying relative (defined

next). Generally, a person is your

qualifying child if that person:

Is your child, stepchild, foster

child, brother, sister, stepbrother, stepsister, or a descendant of any of them,

Lived with you for more than half

of the year,

Did not provide more than half of

his or her own support for the year, and

Was under age 19 at the end of the

year (or was under age 24 at the end of the year and a student, or was any age

and permanently and totally disabled).

For details, see Exemptions for Dependents in

Publication 501.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: Just saw

our accountant this past week, who clarified claiming as a dependent. If your

child, disabled or not, is a full-time student and under 25, s/he is a

dependent. The full-time student status includes transition programs or

college, even for part of the year.

If the " child " is not a full-time student, this gets trickier, but it does

relate to his/her income. Accountant says if the " child " is not a full-time

student and earns $3,000 or more, then s/he is not claimable, regardless of the

amount spent by the parents on support. That $3,000 does not include SSI, which

is not taxed, per SSA.

Which means that Neal is a dependent for 2007 tax year, but, if he ever gets

called back from layoff or gets a new full-time job, he won't be for 2008.

If this helps anyone, I'll be glad.

-Gail

momofchris2007 <slpanda2@...> wrote:

Gloria, does your daughter work? My son is DS and we do not claim

him as he files his own taxes. With the SSD he gets and with the

money he makes working we can not claim we pay more then 1/2 of his

expenses. Also, if she has savings I believe she can only have up to

$2,000.00 in assets too. We went to a lawyer and asked a lot of

questions. has SSD due to the fact his father died when he was

young so I know our situation is different. could have more

the $2,000.00 but not since he just started receiving Medicaid. It

is so confusing. Good luck. Shirley

>

> Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

My

> daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

$500/mo,

> not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

of

> the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

would

> still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

a

> counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

IRS

> because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

The

> intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

try an

> apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

cannot

> see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

to

> get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

low

> income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

o k thank you for further clarification! This all is very confusing and I

dont look good in horizontal stripes! We all try to be so careful for the

little bit our people get. EECH!

[Guest guest]

>

> o k thank you for further clarification! This all is very confusing

and I

> dont look good in horizontal stripes! We all try to be so careful

for the

> little bit our people get. EECH!

Thank you so much for starting this question. My son just turned 18

and I had some of the same questions. I am still waiting for my

approval from SSI. I just received my application for Medicaid.

Thank you to everyone that has responded.

Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

For 2007, this is clear. For 2008, my question is going to be, how much is half

of his support? Is there a set dollar value?

I also wonder if the IRS is going to consider someone permanently and totally

disabled if he has a full-time competitive job (albeit with a job coach). His

disability is permanent, but I suspect they will question whether it is total.

At this point in time, I'm trying to get him reinstated to SSI, and I'm not sure

Soc Sec will o.k. him, because he's on union layoff....it's not like he's

unemployed because he was not capable of keeping the job.

-Gail

Finato <cmfinato@...> wrote: Gail,

the information you were given is not entirely correct. A disabled child

bypasses the age requirement. The following is from the IRS website

(www.irs.gov):

Qualifying child.

To be your dependent (defined earlier), a person must be either your qualifying

child or your qualifying relative (defined

next). Generally, a person is your

qualifying child if that person:

Is your child, stepchild, foster

child, brother, sister, stepbrother, stepsister, or a descendant of any of them,

Lived with you for more than half

of the year,

Did not provide more than half of

his or her own support for the year, and

Was under age 19 at the end of

the year (or was under age 24 at the end of the year and a student, or was any

age and permanently and totally disabled).

For details, see Exemptions for Dependents in

Publication 501.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: Just saw

our accountant this past week, who clarified claiming as a dependent. If your

child, disabled or not, is a full-time student and under 25, s/he is a

dependent. The full-time student status includes transition programs or

college, even for part of the year.

If the " child " is not a full-time student, this gets trickier, but it does

relate to his/her income. Accountant says if the " child " is not a full-time

student and earns $3,000 or more, then s/he is not claimable, regardless of the

amount spent by the parents on support. That $3,000 does not include SSI, which

is not taxed, per SSA.

Which means that Neal is a dependent for 2007 tax year, but, if he ever gets

called back from layoff or gets a new full-time job, he won't be for 2008.

If this helps anyone, I'll be glad.

-Gail

momofchris2007 <slpanda2@...> wrote:

Gloria, does your daughter work? My son is DS and we do not claim

him as he files his own taxes. With the SSD he gets and with the

money he makes working we can not claim we pay more then 1/2 of his

expenses. Also, if she has savings I believe she can only have up to

$2,000.00 in assets too. We went to a lawyer and asked a lot of

questions. has SSD due to the fact his father died when he was

young so I know our situation is different. could have more

the $2,000.00 but not since he just started receiving Medicaid. It

is so confusing. Good luck. Shirley

>

> Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

My

> daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

$500/mo,

> not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

of

> the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

would

> still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

a

> counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

IRS

> because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

The

> intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

try an

> apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

cannot

> see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

to

> get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

low

> income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

To determine how much is support, the entire household is taken into

consideration, whether there are 2,4,or 10 members.

The monthly expenses for the entire household are then added up and divided by

the number of people living in the house. The numerical amount per person in

the household is used to determine if you pay more than half of his support. If

he/she has earned income- how much of that income is used for support. If they

are not paying enough to cover half of their support than you are.

Example: 3 people in the household

one month

Mortgage/rent 2000

food 800

utilities 500

total= 3300 take this number and divide by 3=1100per

person

If the individual only contributes $500 towards their support in the family, you

are providing more than half of what they need,

which is $550.

There is no set number to use because everyone has different amounts used to

calculate support.

Hope this isnt too confusing.

Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

For 2007, this is clear. For 2008, my question is going to be, how much is

half of his support? Is there a set dollar value?

I also wonder if the IRS is going to consider someone permanently and totally

disabled if he has a full-time competitive job (albeit with a job coach). His

disability is permanent, but I suspect they will question whether it is total.

At this point in time, I'm trying to get him reinstated to SSI, and I'm not

sure Soc Sec will o.k. him, because he's on union layoff....it's not like he's

unemployed because he was not capable of keeping the job.

-Gail

Finato <cmfinato@...> wrote: Gail, the information you were

given is not entirely correct. A disabled child bypasses the age requirement.

The following is from the IRS website (www.irs.gov):

Qualifying child. To be your dependent (defined earlier), a person must be

either your qualifying child or your qualifying relative (defined next).

Generally, a person is your qualifying child if that person:

Is your child, stepchild, foster child, brother, sister, stepbrother,

stepsister, or a descendant of any of them,

Lived with you for more than half of the year,

Did not provide more than half of his or her own support for the year, and

Was under age 19 at the end of the year (or was under age 24 at the end of the

year and a student, or was any age and permanently and totally disabled).

For details, see Exemptions for Dependents in Publication 501.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: Just saw our accountant this past

week, who clarified claiming as a dependent. If your child, disabled or not, is

a full-time student and under 25, s/he is a dependent. The full-time student

status includes transition programs or college, even for part of the year.

If the " child " is not a full-time student, this gets trickier, but it does

relate to his/her income. Accountant says if the " child " is not a full-time

student and earns $3,000 or more, then s/he is not claimable, regardless of the

amount spent by the parents on support. That $3,000 does not include SSI, which

is not taxed, per SSA.

Which means that Neal is a dependent for 2007 tax year, but, if he ever gets

called back from layoff or gets a new full-time job, he won't be for 2008.

If this helps anyone, I'll be glad.

-Gail

momofchris2007 <slpanda2@...> wrote: Gloria, does your daughter

work? My son is DS and we do not claim

him as he files his own taxes. With the SSD he gets and with the

money he makes working we can not claim we pay more then 1/2 of his

expenses. Also, if she has savings I believe she can only have up to

$2,000.00 in assets too. We went to a lawyer and asked a lot of

questions. has SSD due to the fact his father died when he was

young so I know our situation is different. could have more

the $2,000.00 but not since he just started receiving Medicaid. It

is so confusing. Good luck. Shirley

>

> Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

My

> daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

$500/mo,

> not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

of

> the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

would

> still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

a

> counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

IRS

> because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

The

> intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

try an

> apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

cannot

> see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

to

> get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

low

> income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Half of his support is over 50% of total support paid. That includes his

portion of the household expenses, food, clothing, recreation, transportation,

medical, etc.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: For 2007,

this is clear. For 2008, my question is going to be, how much is half of his

support? Is there a set dollar value?

I also wonder if the IRS is going to consider someone permanently and totally

disabled if he has a full-time competitive job (albeit with a job coach). His

disability is permanent, but I suspect they will question whether it is total.

At this point in time, I'm trying to get him reinstated to SSI, and I'm not

sure Soc Sec will o.k. him, because he's on union layoff....it's not like he's

unemployed because he was not capable of keeping the job.

-Gail

Finato <cmfinato@...> wrote:

Gail, the information you were given is not entirely correct. A disabled child

bypasses the age requirement. The following is from the IRS website

(www.irs.gov):

Qualifying child.

To be your dependent (defined earlier), a person must be either your qualifying

child or your qualifying relative (defined

next). Generally, a person is your

qualifying child if that person:

Is your child, stepchild, foster

child, brother, sister, stepbrother, stepsister, or a descendant of any of them,

Lived with you for more than

half of the year,

Did not provide more than half

of his or her own support for the year, and

Was under age 19 at the end of

the year (or was under age 24 at the end of the year and a student, or was any

age and permanently and totally disabled).

For details, see Exemptions for Dependents

in Publication 501.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: Just saw

our accountant this past week, who clarified claiming as a dependent. If your

child, disabled or not, is a full-time student and under 25, s/he is a

dependent. The full-time student status includes transition programs or

college, even for part of the year.

If the " child " is not a full-time student, this gets trickier, but it does

relate to his/her income. Accountant says if the " child " is not a full-time

student and earns $3,000 or more, then s/he is not claimable, regardless of the

amount spent by the parents on support. That $3,000 does not include SSI, which

is not taxed, per SSA.

Which means that Neal is a dependent for 2007 tax year, but, if he ever gets

called back from layoff or gets a new full-time job, he won't be for 2008.

If this helps anyone, I'll be glad.

-Gail

momofchris2007 <slpanda2@...> wrote:

Gloria, does your daughter work? My son is DS and we do not claim

him as he files his own taxes. With the SSD he gets and with the

money he makes working we can not claim we pay more then 1/2 of his

expenses. Also, if she has savings I believe she can only have up to

$2,000.00 in assets too. We went to a lawyer and asked a lot of

questions. has SSD due to the fact his father died when he was

young so I know our situation is different. could have more

the $2,000.00 but not since he just started receiving Medicaid. It

is so confusing. Good luck. Shirley

>

> Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

My

> daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

$500/mo,

> not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

of

> the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

would

> still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

a

> counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

IRS

> because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

The

> intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

try an

> apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

cannot

> see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

to

> get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

low

> income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

The only thing I wish to clarify here is when determining your child's portion

of the household, if you own (or mortgage) the home, you use the fair market

value of what the rent would be if you rented.

Colombo <marleney2@...> wrote: To

determine how much is support, the entire household is taken into consideration,

whether there are 2,4,or 10 members.

The monthly expenses for the entire household are then added up and divided by

the number of people living in the house. The numerical amount per person in

the household is used to determine if you pay more than half of his support. If

he/she has earned income- how much of that income is used for support. If they

are not paying enough to cover half of their support than you are.

Example: 3 people in the household

one month

Mortgage/rent 2000

food 800

utilities 500

total= 3300 take this number and divide by 3=1100per

person

If the individual only contributes $500 towards their support in the family,

you are providing more than half of what they need,

which is $550.

There is no set number to use because everyone has different amounts used to

calculate support.

Hope this isnt too confusing.

Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

For 2007, this is clear. For 2008, my question is going to be, how much is half

of his support? Is there a set dollar value?

I also wonder if the IRS is going to consider someone permanently and totally

disabled if he has a full-time competitive job (albeit with a job coach). His

disability is permanent, but I suspect they will question whether it is total.

At this point in time, I'm trying to get him reinstated to SSI, and I'm not

sure Soc Sec will o.k. him, because he's on union layoff....it's not like he's

unemployed because he was not capable of keeping the job.

-Gail

Finato <cmfinato@...> wrote: Gail, the information you were

given is not entirely correct. A disabled child bypasses the age requirement.

The following is from the IRS website (www.irs.gov):

Qualifying child. To be your dependent (defined earlier), a person must be

either your qualifying child or your qualifying relative (defined next).

Generally, a person is your qualifying child if that person:

Is your child, stepchild, foster child, brother, sister, stepbrother,

stepsister, or a descendant of any of them,

Lived with you for more than half of the year,

Did not provide more than half of his or her own support for the year, and

Was under age 19 at the end of the year (or was under age 24 at the end of the

year and a student, or was any age and permanently and totally disabled).

For details, see Exemptions for Dependents in Publication 501.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: Just saw our accountant this past week,

who clarified claiming as a dependent. If your child, disabled or not, is a

full-time student and under 25, s/he is a dependent. The full-time student

status includes transition programs or college, even for part of the year.

If the " child " is not a full-time student, this gets trickier, but it does

relate to his/her income. Accountant says if the " child " is not a full-time

student and earns $3,000 or more, then s/he is not claimable, regardless of the

amount spent by the parents on support. That $3,000 does not include SSI, which

is not taxed, per SSA.

Which means that Neal is a dependent for 2007 tax year, but, if he ever gets

called back from layoff or gets a new full-time job, he won't be for 2008.

If this helps anyone, I'll be glad.

-Gail

momofchris2007 <slpanda2@...> wrote: Gloria, does your daughter work?

My son is DS and we do not claim

him as he files his own taxes. With the SSD he gets and with the

money he makes working we can not claim we pay more then 1/2 of his

expenses. Also, if she has savings I believe she can only have up to

$2,000.00 in assets too. We went to a lawyer and asked a lot of

questions. has SSD due to the fact his father died when he was

young so I know our situation is different. could have more

the $2,000.00 but not since he just started receiving Medicaid. It

is so confusing. Good luck. Shirley

>

> Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

My

> daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

$500/mo,

> not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

of

> the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

would

> still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

a

> counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

IRS

> because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

The

> intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

try an

> apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

cannot

> see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

to

> get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

low

> income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

No, you use the actual payments that you make to determine whether you are

paying more than half of his support. If you follow the example and he/she pays

greater than 50% of his share and he pays it as 'rent', then you do not support

him/her. That is the formant that the IRS uses. For additional information, go

to www.irs.gov and download Publication 17.

Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

For 2007, this is clear. For 2008, my question is going to be, how much is

half of his support? Is there a set dollar value?

I also wonder if the IRS is going to consider someone permanently and totally

disabled if he has a full-time competitive job (albeit with a job coach). His

disability is permanent, but I suspect they will question whether it is total.

At this point in time, I'm trying to get him reinstated to SSI, and I'm not

sure Soc Sec will o.k. him, because he's on union layoff....it's not like he's

unemployed because he was not capable of keeping the job.

-Gail

Finato <cmfinato@...> wrote: Gail, the information you were

given is not entirely correct. A disabled child bypasses the age requirement.

The following is from the IRS website (www.irs.gov):

Qualifying child. To be your dependent (defined earlier), a person must be

either your qualifying child or your qualifying relative (defined next).

Generally, a person is your qualifying child if that person:

Is your child, stepchild, foster child, brother, sister, stepbrother,

stepsister, or a descendant of any of them,

Lived with you for more than half of the year,

Did not provide more than half of his or her own support for the year, and

Was under age 19 at the end of the year (or was under age 24 at the end of the

year and a student, or was any age and permanently and totally disabled).

For details, see Exemptions for Dependents in Publication 501.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: Just saw our accountant this past

week, who clarified claiming as a dependent. If your child, disabled or not, is

a full-time student and under 25, s/he is a dependent. The full-time student

status includes transition programs or college, even for part of the year.

If the " child " is not a full-time student, this gets trickier, but it does

relate to his/her income. Accountant says if the " child " is not a full-time

student and earns $3,000 or more, then s/he is not claimable, regardless of the

amount spent by the parents on support. That $3,000 does not include SSI, which

is not taxed, per SSA.

Which means that Neal is a dependent for 2007 tax year, but, if he ever gets

called back from layoff or gets a new full-time job, he won't be for 2008.

If this helps anyone, I'll be glad.

-Gail

momofchris2007 <slpanda2@...> wrote: Gloria, does your daughter

work? My son is DS and we do not claim

him as he files his own taxes. With the SSD he gets and with the

money he makes working we can not claim we pay more then 1/2 of his

expenses. Also, if she has savings I believe she can only have up to

$2,000.00 in assets too. We went to a lawyer and asked a lot of

questions. has SSD due to the fact his father died when he was

young so I know our situation is different. could have more

the $2,000.00 but not since he just started receiving Medicaid. It

is so confusing. Good luck. Shirley

>

> Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

My

> daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

$500/mo,

> not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

of

> the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

would

> still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

a

> counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

IRS

> because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

The

> intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

try an

> apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

cannot

> see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

to

> get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

low

> income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi, and thanks to all who responded. It is so helpful to hear from others in

the trenches.

Thanks, , for the legalese. What about the fact that they are saying she

can only receive 2/3 of the typical SSI because she lives at home? Is that what

others are experiencing? Gloria

[Guest guest]

I am correct. This is from publication 17, please note that it says

FOR LODGING, THE AMOUNT OF SUPPORT IS THE FAIR RENTAL VALUE OF THE

LODGING. You do not include a percentage of the mortgage. If you did

that, you'd have to depreciate the home. You don't want to get

involved with that.

Total Support

To figure if you provided more than half of a person's support, you

must first determine the total support provided for that person. Total

support includes amounts spent to provide food, lodging, clothing,

education, medical and dental care, recreation, transportation, and

similar necessities.

Generally, the amount of an item of support is the amount of the

expense incurred in providing that item. For lodging, the amount of

support is the fair rental value of the lodging.

Expenses that are not directly related to any one member of a

household, such as the cost of food for the household, must be divided

among the members of the household.

> >

> > Hi, I have an appointment to meet with Social Security coming up.

> My

> > daughter lives at home with me. I was told that she would only be

> > allowed to receive about $467 because she was living in my home and

> > didn't need full support. Is this true? Is there a way around it?

> > Her share of the mortgage, insurance, utilities would be about

> $500/mo,

> > not including food, clothing, etc. My plan was to " charge " her 1/2

> of

> > the house expenses for purposes of Social Security, leaving her the

> > rest for " personal expenses " . I would still be providing food,

> > clothing, vacations, special rec, her extra insurance, etc., so I

> would

> > still consider her a dependent for tax purposes. I was advised by

> a

> > counselor at our local agency that I could get in trouble with the

> IRS

> > because I am telling Social Security that she is " paying her share "

> > while claiming her as a dependent. Any advice on what I should be

> > telling SSI to maximize her benefits would be greatly appreciated.

> The

> > intent is to allow her to start saving because she would like to

> try an

> > apartment. She will need a down payment and some savings as I

> cannot

> > see her making it on SSI and the minimal part time jobs she is able

> to

> > get. That won't happen if she gets the reduced amount. I am very

> low

> > income and struggling to keep us afloat so I have to ask her to

> > contribute to her own support. Thanks again for any advice. Gloria

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gloria, the only time I heard that the benefits would be 2/3, is when the

recipient is not paying a certain amount to live there. The social security rep

told me Angel would have to pay $208 a month minimum (that was when the SSI was

about $600 a month) or she'd have the benefits reduced by a third. Everytime

SSI is increased, I add the increased amount to the monthly amount I charge.

The monthly amount is way short of 50% of Angel's support.

Gloria Kern <prentice50@...> wrote: Hi, and

thanks to all who responded. It is so helpful to hear from others in the

trenches.

Thanks, , for the legalese. What about the fact that they are saying she

can only receive 2/3 of the typical SSI because she lives at home? Is that what

others are experiencing? Gloria

[Guest guest]

I forgot to add this from the IRS publication 17:

Lodging. If you provide a person with lodging, you are considered to provide

support equal to the fair rental value of the room, apartment, house, or other

shelter in which the person lives. Fair rental value includes a reasonable

allowance for the use of furniture and appliances, and for heat and other

utilities that are provided.

Fair rental value defined. This is the amount you could reasonably expect to

receive from a stranger for the same kind of lodging. It is used instead of

actual expenses such as taxes, interest, depreciation, paint, insurance,

utilities, cost of furniture and appliances, etc. In some cases, fair rental

value may be equal to the rent paid.

Finato

www.AngelSpeaks.com

www.wegrowdreams.org

[Guest guest]

The initial question was in regarding- do I pay more than 1/2 of someone's

support to be able to claim them as a dependent. Using actual figures of actual

expenses can give a family a good indication as to whether more than 1/2 of

their support is met. When you start using terms such as the fair maket value of

rent then you are taking depreciation into consideration as rent being assessed

for 'wear and tear'.

Re: Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

I forgot to add this from the IRS publication 17:

Lodging. If you provide a person with lodging, you are considered to provide

support equal to the fair rental value of the room, apartment, house, or other

shelter in which the person lives. Fair rental value includes a reasonable

allowance for the use of furniture and appliances, and for heat and other

utilities that are provided. Fair rental value defined. This is the amount you

could reasonably expect to receive from a stranger for the same kind of lodging.

It is used instead of actual expenses such as taxes, interest, depreciation,

paint, insurance, utilities, cost of furniture and appliances, etc. In some

cases, fair rental value may be equal to the rent paid.

Finato

www.AngelSpeaks.com

www.wegrowdreams.org

[Guest guest]

You don't need to take into account depreciation, but you do need to take into

account if this person receives SSI benefits as that would mean they are

contributing to their own support. I don't know about your households, but if

you add in my Walmart and Dominicks bill alone to the rent and etc, there is no

way my daughter's SSI would ever come close to even 30% of her support!

--------- Re: Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

I forgot to add this from the IRS publication 17:

Lodging. If you provide a person with lodging, you are considered to provide

support equal to the fair rental value of the room, apartment, house, or other

shelter in which the person lives. Fair rental value includes a reasonable

allowance for the use of furniture and appliances, and for heat and other

utilities that are provided. Fair rental value defined. This is the amount you

could reasonably expect to receive from a stranger for the same kind of lodging.

It is used instead of actual expenses such as taxes, interest, depreciation,

paint, insurance, utilities, cost of furniture and appliances, etc. In some

cases, fair rental value may be equal to the rent paid.

Finato

www.AngelSpeaks.com

www.wegrowdreams.org

[Guest guest]

I'll quote that IRS publication directly:

Tests To Be a Qualifying Relative

1. The person cannot be your qualifying child or the qualifying child of any

other taxpayer.

2. The person either (a) must be related to you in one of the ways listed under

Relatives who do not have to live with you, or ( must live with you all year

as a member of your household2 (and your relationship must not violate local

law).

3. The person’s gross income for the year must be less than $3,400.

4. You must provide more than half of the person’s total support for the year.

I think this is the section my accountant was thinking of.

For my son to be considered a qualifying child , he has to be " permanently and

totally " disabled. Autism is permanent, but how do they define " totally " ?So let

me quote the publication again:

Permanently and totally disabled. Your child is permanently and totally disabled

if both of the following apply.

He or she cannot engage in any substantial gainful activity because of a

physical or mental condition.

A doctor determines the condition lasted or can be expected to last continuously

for at least a year or can lead to death.

So I think that in my son's case, and in the case of some other folks, if

there's competitive employment and enough hours a week, you may run into

difficulties with the IRS establishing that your child is " permanently and

totally disabled " .

I realize that for some individuals, this will apply, but I just threw this info

in for those of us who need to get the IRS definitions.

-Gail

Colombo <marleney2@...> wrote: No,

you use the actual payments that you make to determine whether you are paying

more than half of his support. If you follow the example and he/she pays

greater than 50% of his share and he pays it as 'rent', then you do not support

him/her. That is the formant that the IRS uses. For additional information, go

to www.irs.gov and download Publication 17.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Gail, you are correct.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: I'll quote

that IRS publication directly:

Tests To Be a Qualifying Relative

1. The person cannot be your qualifying child or the qualifying child of any

other taxpayer.

2. The person either (a) must be related to you in one of the ways listed under

Relatives who do not have to live with you, or ( must live with you all year

as a member of your household2 (and your relationship must not violate local

law).

3. The person’s gross income for the year must be less than $3,400.

4. You must provide more than half of the person’s total support for the year.

I think this is the section my accountant was thinking of.

For my son to be considered a qualifying child , he has to be " permanently and

totally " disabled. Autism is permanent, but how do they define " totally " ?So let

me quote the publication again:

Permanently and totally disabled. Your child is permanently and totally

disabled if both of the following apply.

He or she cannot engage in any substantial gainful activity because of a

physical or mental condition.

A doctor determines the condition lasted or can be expected to last

continuously for at least a year or can lead to death.

So I think that in my son's case, and in the case of some other folks, if

there's competitive employment and enough hours a week, you may run into

difficulties with the IRS establishing that your child is " permanently and

totally disabled " .

I realize that for some individuals, this will apply, but I just threw this

info in for those of us who need to get the IRS definitions.

-Gail

Colombo <marleney2@...> wrote:

No, you use the actual payments that you make to determine whether you are

paying more than half of his support. If you follow the example and he/she pays

greater than 50% of his share and he pays it as 'rent', then you do not support

him/her. That is the formant that the IRS uses. For additional information, go

to www.irs.gov and download Publication 17.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

The lady who processed our SSI application was great. She advised me to charge

Angel so she could get the full benefit. Good luck getting Neal's benefits

reinstated.

G Mrozak <mrsovaltine@...> wrote: We didn't

charge Neal rent, and he did receive the 2/3 SSI, which was more than sufficient

for his expenses. However, when Neal's job developed enough hours per month,

his pay was a sufficient percentage of that level of SSI, to the SSI was reduced

to zero.

Now that he's on layoff, I'm trying to reinstate the SSI, and it's not going

well. I'm guessing that they will deny because, " See, he's employable. He

wasn't laid off because of his disability. "

That's what we get for not trying for the money.

-Gail

Finato <cmfinato@...> wrote:

Gloria, the only time I heard that the benefits would be 2/3, is when the

recipient is not paying a certain amount to live there. The social security rep

told me Angel would have to pay $208 a month minimum (that was when the SSI was

about $600 a month) or she'd have the benefits reduced by a third. Everytime

SSI is increased, I add the increased amount to the monthly amount I charge.

The monthly amount is way short of 50% of Angel's support.

Gloria Kern <prentice50@...> wrote: Hi,

and thanks to all who responded. It is so helpful to hear from others in the

trenches.

Thanks, , for the legalese. What about the fact that they are saying

she can only receive 2/3 of the typical SSI because she lives at home? Is that

what others are experiencing? Gloria

[Guest guest]

And I was replying on how you determine if you pay more than 1/2 of their

support. My income tax class has a very nice worksheet to use in determining

this.

Colombo <marleney2@...> wrote: The

initial question was in regarding- do I pay more than 1/2 of someone's support

to be able to claim them as a dependent. Using actual figures of actual expenses

can give a family a good indication as to whether more than 1/2 of their support

is met. When you start using terms such as the fair maket value of rent then you

are taking depreciation into consideration as rent being assessed for 'wear and

tear'.

Re: Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

I forgot to add this from the IRS publication 17:

Lodging. If you provide a person with lodging, you are considered to provide

support equal to the fair rental value of the room, apartment, house, or other

shelter in which the person lives. Fair rental value includes a reasonable

allowance for the use of furniture and appliances, and for heat and other

utilities that are provided. Fair rental value defined. This is the amount you

could reasonably expect to receive from a stranger for the same kind of lodging.

It is used instead of actual expenses such as taxes, interest, depreciation,

paint, insurance, utilities, cost of furniture and appliances, etc. In some

cases, fair rental value may be equal to the rent paid.

Finato

www.AngelSpeaks.com

www.wegrowdreams.org

[Guest guest]

I have dealt with the IRS for many years and they write things to try to include

everything. The key words are 'or' and 'substantial'. If a person has autism

but has the earning potential of a person without autism- then they would not be

considered disabled.

Re: Claim as a dependent? Was: SSI

I'll quote that IRS publication directly:

Tests To Be a Qualifying Relative

1. The person cannot be your qualifying child or the qualifying child of any

other taxpayer.

2. The person either (a) must be related to you in one of the ways listed

under Relatives who do not have to live with you, or ( must live with you all

year as a member of your household2 (and your relationship must not violate

local

law).

3. The person's gross income for the year must be less than $3,400.

4. You must provide more than half of the person's total support for the year.

I think this is the section my accountant was thinking of.

For my son to be considered a qualifying child , he has to be " permanently and

totally " disabled. Autism is permanent, but how do they define " totally " ?So let

me quote the publication again:

Permanently and totally disabled. Your child is permanently and totally

disabled if both of the following apply.

He or she cannot engage in any substantial gainful activity because of a

physical or mental condition.

A doctor determines the condition lasted or can be expected to last

continuously for at least a year or can lead to death.

So I think that in my son's case, and in the case of some other folks, if

there's competitive employment and enough hours a week, you may run into

difficulties with the IRS establishing that your child is " permanently and

totally disabled " .

I realize that for some individuals, this will apply, but I just threw this

info in for those of us who need to get the IRS definitions.

-Gail

Colombo <marleney2@...> wrote: No, you use the actual payments

that you make to determine whether you are paying more than half of his support.

If you follow the example and he/she pays greater than 50% of his share and he

pays it as 'rent', then you do not support him/her. That is the formant that the

IRS uses. For additional information, go to www.irs.gov and download Publication

17.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

You are afraid of IRS?

You have my sympathy, although I did file my own tax return before.

In the beginning of the application, I did file that I am independent adult and

that I am paying rent. My mother print out the paper, I signed it. I been rated

independent adult inspite of the physcologist's opinion about my money

management and that I wouldn't handle it on my own and required monitoring.

I been making monthly credit card payment, I screw up once awhile but I been

doing a good job by paying as soon as possible and avoid leaving it at the last

moment.

I don't know what is the big worry about rent, cash is basically a universal

under the table income and it wouldn't make sense to spend an hour reporting

something that could have been swept under the rug. Even our current landlord

have a picky habit about collecting cash, I have no clues what that about but

that how it run in some business and it prove that something is meant to be

remain simple instead a mountain of molehill.

[Guest guest]

You are afraid of IRS?

You have my sympathy, although I did file my own tax return before.

In the beginning of the application, I did file that I am independent adult and

that I am paying rent. My mother print out the paper, I signed it. I been rated

independent adult inspite of the physcologist's opinion about my money

management and that I wouldn't handle it on my own and required monitoring.

I been making monthly credit card payment, I screw up once awhile but I been

doing a good job by paying as soon as possible and avoid leaving it at the last

moment.

I don't know what is the big worry about rent, cash is basically a universal

under the table income and it wouldn't make sense to spend an hour reporting

something that could have been swept under the rug. Even our current landlord

have a picky habit about collecting cash, I have no clues what that about but

that how it run in some business and it prove that something is meant to be

remain simple instead a mountain of molehill.