(No subject)

[Guest guest]

Where can I find the report you are speaking of? I need to find some sort

of official report on this study. I was told by the flight surgeon that

this vaccine has been given to veterinarians since 1965 and she is " sure

that some of those 500 people per year were women who got pregnant and or

breast-fed " I asked her where she found her information, that I would like

to see this research, because I have been looking and can't find anything on

any studies done. She says she is just sure. Oh that's a relief!!

(no subject)

Hi all!

I just copied the " only known published journal study " (World

Health Org., 1998) of a human anthrax vaccine trial (Brachman et al.,1962).

Very interesting study. Seems to me that so many of the test subjects left

the experiment (in one way or another) and that it is somewhat inconclusive.

My question is this. The " vaccine was supplied by Dr. G.G. and

associates of the US Army Chemical Corps, Fort Detrick, Frederick, Md. It

was produced by growth of the RI-NP strain. RI-NP is a nonencapsulated,

nonproteolytic mutant of the Vollum strain of B. anthracis. " In addition,

the vaccine contains " 0.1 per cent aluminum potassium sulfate (alum). " Now,

another study done more recently was conducted yet again at Fort Detrick

with MDPH-PA in rhesus monkeys " using the Ames strain of aerosolized

anthrax. " The current vaccine, anthrax vaccine adsorbed, contains 2.4 mg of

AlOH, formaldehyde (not to exceed 0.02%) and benzethonium chloride

(0.0025%). Notice for the current vaccine, I have no idea what strain is

used to produce it!

OK, according to the DOD and FDA, " the vaccine was licensed in

1970 according to a published study (that study being Dr. Brachman's). " The

key word here is licensed - which vaccine? The RINP strain, the Ames strain

or the anthrax vaccine adsorbed? Are they all considered the same? And if

they are all considered the same, how come they performed differently in

other tests cited by Dr. Nass? Therefore, what strain is included in the

anthrax vaccine adsorbed - it does not say on the package label? And, is

this particular vaccine the one that was licenced in 1970? If not, then

this leaves us with the fact that the DOD is saying that the anthrax vaccine

was indeed licenced in 1970 - but it does not specify which vaccine! Thus,

the current vaccine is a " new investigational drug. " Are they relying on

our intelligence to figure this one out?

Somebody, please help me with this. I cant believe our

government is treating their armed forces like this. Their web site on " the

anthrax threat " (DOD), questions and answers, fact vs myth, is full of

inconsistancies to what I have found.. And indeed on their " history of

anthrax- more recently " section, the DoD states " Beginning in 1970 and

continuing through today, the anthrax has been routinely administered to ALL

PROFESSIONALS who MAY contact anthrax spores occupationally (veterinarians,

laboratory workers, livestock handlers, etc.). " This is a blatent lie in

accordance to what one list has found! I am outraged, frustrated

and worried.

Also, Has the GAO published the independent probe on the MBPI

anthrax vaccine? It was due out early 1999.

Thanks to all of you for your support

Traci and York

[Guest guest]

Re: Philip Perks' posting:

I think it is a good idea to back up one's contentions regarding the

anthrax vaccine with documentation; not only from the perspective of being

well-versed to argue the point, but also because surely many of higher rank

within one's command are probably totally lacking in information themselves

as to what is being introduced into their bodies. You just might make a

lot of concerned allies this way.

[Guest guest]

an article on the marines ran last monday. there is another anthrax article

running this monday and then the follow-up Marine article will run the monday

after new years.

How did you post my article last time? That is probably the way to go now.

bounce---363-yana=cwix.comonelist wrote:

> (no from line)

>

> Received: (qmail 9459 invoked from network); 27 Dec 1998 16:10:52 -0000

> Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.mailsrvcs.net) (207.115.153.31)

> by pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 27 Dec 1998 16:10:52 -0000

> Received: from hpcustomer (2Cust103.tnt21.dfw5.da.uu.net [208.254.192.103])

> by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id KAA17568

> for <onelist>; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 10:08:55 -0600 (CST)

> Message-Id: <199812271608.KAA17568@...>

> From: " Lori Greenleaf " <david.greenleaf@...>

> <onelist>

> Subject: 12/28/98-Article

> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 09:17:55 -0700

> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

> X-Priority: 3

> X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> Yana,

>

> Is your article still going to run tomorrow, and if so is it possible to

> post to this list?

>

> Lori

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Get the phone number of his/her paper. Call the paper and ask if this

reporter works for them and is doing a story. If you find that they are

ligitimate, you might as well get this out to the public. My son's name is

spread all over. It doesn't go any better if you keep quiet. You're out no

matter what. He is on active duty in Okinawa.

[Guest guest]

Has anyone heard when the Marines at 29 Palms, CA will start the Anthrax

shots?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

I don 't understand why our military leadres would call for use to get the

vacinnation if it has not been tested properly... I would die for our great

country in Combat but not from some vacine... I just started research on the

anthrax vacine to find out more about it.. I am currently in the middle of the

vaccination program.. I have already had 3 out of the 6 initial shots. After

my research i am not going to take anymore.. I was told to get the shot and i

done it without asking questions... I just hope that it is not to late

Nix

[Guest guest]

I would gladly die for my country and to protect the freedom of others in the

past, present, and the future. We should have a choice to take the shot or not

without having to worry about being punished for not taking them. In my

personnel opinion i believe that the govt does not care about the soilders

that protect their freedom cause they know we will do what it takes to get the

job done no matter whatr. There is nothing keeping first term soilders in the

military... I like the military i think it is great. But there is nothing

keeping me here now.. especially with something to this nature going on. i

think that it is appalling that our leaders do not care about the lower ranks

that are involved. I bet that 10 to 1 that they are not taking any of these

shots cause they know to much. But then again maybe they don't know and are

possibly just as naive about it as some of us enlisted are. They think we

will take it because we follow orders.. But they know we will not follow

orders that we think they are going to put our health in danger when there is

no war going on....

Nix

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I too was willing to die for my country....I went to a war and came home

sick...now my family has it too....I don't want to come accross as condescending

but I want you to think about something here...

WWII...radiation exposure to many many troops....LSD experimentation during

the 50's....Viet-Nam War exposure to agent orange....Gulf war...vaccines/insect

repellants/bio and chemical agents...what makes you think that the govt has ever

really been overly concerned about us? We have been and still are cannon fodder

if needed as such...I will probably die eventually from this stuff....I can live

with that idea...I did sign away to do all that was neccessary to protect the

freedom that I want my children to have...but I didn't expect to bring something

home and give it to them!

I admire the courage of those of you who are refusing the shots...because

that

is a very courageous thing to do. We had no choice...it was a war...and I guess

we thought the same way...that this was just something to help protect us. I

really think that they (govt) probably thought that it would too, but we've all

been learning a heck of a lesson since then...

I cannot tell anyone to refuse the shots...goes against my military

upbringing

(I retired in Jan 97)....But I offer my moral support to all of you that do. I

also hope to help with the push (again) for legislation such as the Drugs and

Informed Consent Act that we tried to get passed in Congress last year....this

is

central to this issue....of letting the individual have the choice...Semper Si.

Bamardneck@... wrote:

> From: Bamardneck@...

>

> I don 't understand why our military leadres would call for use to get the

> vacinnation if it has not been tested properly... I would die for our great

> country in Combat but not from some vacine...

[Guest guest]

Tim Kellar wrote:

>

> From: Tim Kellar <timkellar@...>

>

> You can see the Air Force story on Jeff and the Pentagon's rebutal on

> 22 Jan 99 at www.af.mil.

>

> Just a site to check out that really sugar coats this poison that the

> government is calling a safe vaccine. What do you think? I have not

> had a chance to look at it yet.

> www.defenselink.mil/specials/anthrax

>

>

When the Department of Defense starts answering such questions as: " Why

do hundreds of Gulf War Vets have " squalene " in their blood? " , " Why are

bad reactions to the shot by Gulf War veterans not well documented? " ,

" Is the vaccine being given to our troops the exact same vaccine that

was licensed by the FDA? " , " Does this vaccine have squalene in it? "

" Will the governement release the documented studies of veterinarians,

livestock workers, and lab workers? " , and " Is it true that this vaccine

was given to the Soviet Union and thus could have been used to make

vaccine resistant Anthrax strains? "

That is just some of the questions that I want answered before I would

even consider taking that vaccine.

Until they answer those questions and others, I think they're going to

see quite a bit of refusals especially when they get around to

vaccinating Reserve and National Guard units.

G.

[Guest guest]

Tim:

Went to the website that you instructed and this is what I found:

Not Found

The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is

either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let

you have it.

Were you able to view it?

If so, please email me a copy.

Thanks!

Traci.

Tim Kellar wrote:

> From: Tim Kellar <timkellar@...>

>

> You can see the Air Force story on Jeff and the Pentagon's rebutal on

> 22 Jan 99 at www.af.mil.

>

> Just a site to check out that really sugar coats this poison that the

> government is calling a safe vaccine. What do you think? I have not

> had a chance to look at it yet.

> www.defenselink.mil/specials/anthrax

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Rob & Traci York wrote:

>

> From: Rob & Traci York <robertyork@...>

>

> Tim:

>

> Went to the website that you instructed and this is what I found:

>

> Not Found

>

> The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is

> either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let

> you have it.

>

> Were you able to view it?

> If so, please email me a copy.

>

> Thanks!

> Traci.

>

> Tim Kellar wrote:

>

> > From: Tim Kellar <timkellar@...>

> >

> > You can see the Air Force story on Jeff and the Pentagon's rebutal on

> > 22 Jan 99 at www.af.mil.

> >

> > Just a site to check out that really sugar coats this poison that the

> > government is calling a safe vaccine. What do you think? I have not

> > had a chance to look at it yet.

> > www.defenselink.mil/specials/anthrax

> >

try this, contact the owner of site at webmaster@... and ask

[Guest guest]

ok, folks...type in this instead

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/

and then you can get to the site itself....just leave the anthrax part off

the end of the url

[Guest guest]

M. Lee wrote:

>

> From: " M. Lee " <finchley@...>

> ok, folks...type in this instead

> http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/

> and then you can get to the site itself....just leave the anthrax part off

> the end of the url

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

-THANKS ANGIE!!!!!!!!! JIM

[Guest guest]

Thank you for getting that cleared up for me. I am sorry that it

wouldn't work before.

--- " M. Lee " <finchley@...> wrote:

>

> From: " M. Lee " <finchley@...>

>ok, folks...type in this instead

>http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/

>and then you can get to the site itself....just leave the anthrax

>part off

>the end of the url

>

[Guest guest]

>From: " rocky hill " <rockster20@...>

>

>TO WHOM EVER IT MAY CONCERN,

>

>JUST THE OTHER DAY, ONE OF MY CO-WORKERS TOLD ME THAT WHEN HE WAS IN THE

>GULF WAR, OFFICIALS MADE HIM TAKE A SHOT. HE HAS NO CLUE WHAT THE SHOT

>WAS. WELL, AFTER HE RAMBLED ON WITH HIS STORY, HE TOLD ME THAT HE HAD

>TO SIGN A CONFIDENTIAL DOCUMENT SAYING THAT HE WOULD NOT TELL ANYONE

>ABOUT THE SHOT. WHO KNOWS WHAT THE SHOT MIGHT HAVE BEEN! ANTHRAX???

>ANY ONE ELSE HEARD OF A SIMILAR STORY?

>

This happened quite a bit during the Gulf War.

[Guest guest]

Rocky-My son is stationed at Camp Pendleton and was scheduled to receive

the vaccine Jan 25, despite his concerns. He's only 19, I didn't know

what advice to give him. He said his SGT told them do not plan on

having kids for 7 years after receiving the vaccine.Hmmm. Of course

after searching everywhere, no long term studies. He's concerned about

" having screwed up kids one day " . Please send the lot #s if possible.

I've started a file with as much info as possible for him, just in case,

for future reference. Thanks

rocky hill wrote:

>

> From: " rocky hill " <rockster20@...>

>

> TO WHOM EVER IT MAY CONCERN,

>

> JUST THE OTHER DAY, ONE OF MY CO-WORKERS TOLD ME THAT WHEN HE WAS IN THE

> GULF WAR, OFFICIALS MADE HIM TAKE A SHOT. HE HAS NO CLUE WHAT THE SHOT

> WAS. WELL, AFTER HE RAMBLED ON WITH HIS STORY, HE TOLD ME THAT HE HAD

> TO SIGN A CONFIDENTIAL DOCUMENT SAYING THAT HE WOULD NOT TELL ANYONE

> ABOUT THE SHOT. WHO KNOWS WHAT THE SHOT MIGHT HAVE BEEN! ANTHRAX???

> ANY ONE ELSE HEARD OF A SIMILAR STORY?

>

> ROCKY SENDS...

> P. S. THE SHOTS HERE ON CAMP PENDLETON BEGIN MONDAY. IF ANY ONE KNOWS

> OF ANY ONE ELSE ON CAMP PENDLETON THAT IS OR IS NOT TAKING THE SHOT, LET

> ME KNOW. I HAVE THE LOT #s TO THE BATCH(S) HERE.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-01-31 13:50:13 EST, you write:

<< Article:

Not everyone is concerned about the anthrax vaccinations, however. More

than 166,000 service members have already received the first of the set of

six shots. Only 76 have refused, says Pentagon spokesman Jim .

" It is just a handful of people, " Mr. says of the refusers. " I think

that is absolutely remarkable. It's been a highly successful program by

anyone's measure. "

Those opposed to the vaccination policy say the number is low because

military leaders are threatening to court martial anyone who declines the

shots.

Question:

1. IS THAT ALL THAT IS REQUIRED TO MAKE THIS A " HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL " PROGRAM?

>>

These are the threats...WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE 19 OR 20?

**Two years in a Federal Prison

**6 Months In the Brigg

**30 Days in the Brigg

**45 days restriction

**1/2 months pay for 2 months

**Fined up to $1,500

**Dishonorable Discharge (which is a felony -- no voting, no

federal/state/civil service

employement, no financial aid for college, your life is ruined)

LIKE I SAID, WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE 19 OR 20? FIRST YOU WOULD CALL

HOME AND ASK MOM AND DAD!!

I believe if they offered this on a volunteer basis the refusal rate would be

75% or greater. Great Britain has already proven this with their 73% refusal

rate.

[Guest guest]

Everyone is concerned about the Anthrax vaccinations. The only reason this is

so " highly successful with a handful of refusers " is because they have the

military between a rock and a hard spot.

The ones who are old enough to be able to stand the pressure of refusing have

families to think of.

Then there are the 19 - 21 yr. olds who haven't been around the world and this

is their first time away from home.

I speak from the second group. My son is 19 and was 100% sure he wasn't

taking this shot. He was ready to be yelled at and take the punishment. What

he wasn't ready for was that he stood alone in his group and after having to

go to a meeting with his commander facing a felony charge that would be with

him the rest of his life.

The threats are there -- now they are putting them in a nice way after the

stink from Okinawa!

I would like to take a poll on all those " takers " and find out how many were

out of fear and threats -- That's a highly successful plan if I ever saw one!!

Graves

[Guest guest]

To the list:

It is hard to believe that only 76 out of more than 166,000 service

members have refused the shot, as " REPORTED " by the PENTAGON!!! I

don't know what they would do when they are told to get the shot, but

approximately 8 out of ten people that I work with (military) said

that they will not get the shot. Now, because I know these people and

I know who the " talkers " are and who the " doers " are, there would be

at least 5 or 6 out of every ten that would not get the shot. That

equates out to more than 76 per 166,000. Where are the rest of these

refusers? Why does the Pentagon not include them in their reports?

It sure does make the Pentagon look GOOD with only a " handful of

refusers " !! Just food for thought and frustration>

Tim <(((><

---User102241@... wrote:

>

> From: User102241@...

>

> In a message dated 99-01-31 13:50:13 EST, you write:

>

> << Article:

> Not everyone is concerned about the anthrax vaccinations, however.

More

> than 166,000 service members have already received the first of the

set of

> six shots. Only 76 have refused, says Pentagon spokesman Jim .

> " It is just a handful of people, " Mr. says of the refusers.

" I think

> that is absolutely remarkable. It's been a highly successful

program by

> anyone's measure....... "

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/2/99 7:58:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,

robertyork@... writes:

<< One of my largest concerns on this anthrax vaccine is that there have

been NO epidemiological studies done on the " vets " and " mill workers "

that have received the vaccine, according to the CDC. >>

Could be because no one seems to be able to find any of these vets and mill

workers. Who knows, maybe all the vets and mill workers who took the vaccine

since 1970 have all already died from it.

[Guest guest]

I received a letter from my Congressman today. He stated, " I called the

American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) regarding the administering of

the Anthrax vaccine to its members and spoke to Dr. Naill Finnegan, Director

of Goernmental Affairs. As luch would have it, Dr. Finnegan did extensive

research on the Anthrax virus for the Department of Defense in the early

1970', and hsa been vaccinated for almost 30 years wwitht he Anthrax vaccine

without any ill effects. According to Dr. Finnegan, officially the AVMA does

not have a position on the Anthrax vaccine as it is used on humans an dnot

animals. However, there are no warnings to its members against using the

Anthrax vaccine. The AVMA can be reached on-line at www.avma.org " . (Can

anyone get a phone # for Dr. Finnegan?)

Also Congressman Boehlert stated, " I cntacted the British Embassy regarding

the United Kingdom's policy of haivng voluntary inoculations for the Anthrax

vaccine instead of making it mandatory. According to Colonel Graham of

the Ministry of Defense for the UK, British law deems it " illegal to immunize

or take blood from individuals without their consent. To do so w ould

constitute an assault. " Colonel Graham also stated the program is voluntary

due to concerns by the British governement that the Military of Deffense

handled the vaccinations of soldiers in the Gulf War incorrectly and it did

not follow advice from the Dept. of Health. Colonel Graham will be sending an

extensive report concerning these concerns nd as soon as I receive it, I will

forward it onto you. The Ministry of Defense can be reached at www.mod.uk . "

(Interesting)

If you would like more information from my Congressman or would like him to

speak with your congressman, he can be reached at (315) 793-8146 or by writing

to Congressman Sherwood Boehlert, 10 Broad Street, Pirnie Federal

Bldg., Utica, NY 13501. Fax: (315) 798-4099. Toll free: 1-800-235-2525.

E-mail: rep.boehlert@...

The more people he hears from the more he will understand that there are very

concerned parents, husbands, wifes, children, friends, and military personnel.

I am also trying to get a phone number for Ritter, UN weapon's inspector

from the United States. Can anyone get this or me. Thank you.

May God Be With You!

[Guest guest]

I also wrote to Dateline and sent a packet of information. I haven't heard

anything back yet.

[Guest guest]

:

Thanks for the additional support! We really need mass media coverage here,

and Dateline is the perfect medium. Hopefully they will get the picture!

Traci

User102241@... wrote:

> From: User102241@...

>

> I also wrote to Dateline and sent a packet of information. I haven't heard

> anything back yet.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Rob & Traci York wrote:

>

> From: Rob & Traci York <robertyork@...>

>

> Hi again:

>

> OK, I found what MBPI is using for the anthrax vaccine. It is the

> strain of V770 culture. That is from World Health Org. They have a

> good web site on anthrax if anyone is interested. : www.who.int

> or www.who.int/emc-documents/zoonoses/docs/whoemczdi986.html

>

> Thanks,

> Traci

>

Wow, thats great work digging that up. It is indeed an extremely good

web site on Anthrax. Ok...so...does this mean that ol' Saddam Hussein

can easily come up with a nasty little Anthrax bug that will make our

vaccine obsolete? Obviously this information isn't classified.

Or is the vaccine being given to the U.S. military actually made from

the V770 culture? Could it be some variant of the V770 culture?

I had assumed that such information would be classified.

G.

[Guest guest]

Here is the problem: If the vaccine was approved in 1970 then it was on the

basis (according to FDA) of the one scientific study (Brachman, et al.,

1962) using the RI-NP strain. So, how can they say that the V770 is

licenced? Does the FDA lump the anthrax vaccine all in one and not worry

about what is being used out there? That means that MBPI can come up with

any " anthrax vaccine " - that is scarry.

Also, I just did an extensive search through FDA warning letters and guess

what!? MBPI is no where to be found! There are all other warning letters

posted during the dates of 96 - 98 (the times warning letters were sent to

MBPI)! What the heck! I think we have hit on some classified Info. here!

Traci

Gieseke wrote:

> From: Gieseke <chrisgie@...>

>

> Rob & Traci York wrote:

> >

> > From: Rob & Traci York <robertyork@...>

> >

> > Hi again:

> >

> > OK, I found what MBPI is using for the anthrax vaccine. It is the

> > strain of V770 culture. That is from World Health Org. They have a

> > good web site on anthrax if anyone is interested. : www.who.int

> > or www.who.int/emc-documents/zoonoses/docs/whoemczdi986.html

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Traci

> >

>

> Wow, thats great work digging that up. It is indeed an extremely good

> web site on Anthrax. Ok...so...does this mean that ol' Saddam Hussein

> can easily come up with a nasty little Anthrax bug that will make our

> vaccine obsolete? Obviously this information isn't classified.

> Or is the vaccine being given to the U.S. military actually made from

> the V770 culture? Could it be some variant of the V770 culture?

> I had assumed that such information would be classified.

>

> G.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>