Re: c sect

January 6, 2002

In a message dated 1/6/02 10:32:50 PM GTB Standard Time,

chapins61198@... writes:

<<

I'd like any input anyone has about any of the things that happened to us.

>>

All I know is that sometimes when induction is started when the cervix isn't

ripe the baby just won't be born vaginally most of the time. I think we all

know cytotec is bad news(worse than pit) even if it does work well for some

women.I am suprised anyone is sent home after getting cytotec,and was more

suprised to learn some midwives are actually using the stuff on their clients

at home(even those who've had a section!)

Did your son have a cephalhematoma? My dd developed one a few days after

birth on the left side of her head. My ped. says they usually resolve on

their own. I felt bad,but I see a few newborns with it and know there is

little I could have done to prevent it. Sorry to read your son had such a

rough few days.

Though I have not BTDT I understand your apprenhension. I worry about various

things too!

Perhaps trying other bp lowering methods if PIH occurs will help you to

avoid induction. It is not uncommon for FHR to drop when pit or an epi is

used,hence the need for constant monitoring.

I have read a lot of homebirth stories from women who had 1-3 c-sections,so

it is possible in many cases. I know some women who interview midwives when

they aren't even pregnant to see if they can have a homebirth considering

past birth issues,so perhaps that would be an option for you.

Sara

January 6, 2002

Malissa, It is my opinion that if you can find a hospital that has respect

for VBAC's and will allow you to use a midwife as (one of) your labor

coaches, and has a low incidence of c-sections (if that is possible to find

these days), and will allow you to determine your birth plan with a minimum

to no interventions, it can be reassuring to be in a hospital. Granted,

there really are fewer problems with home births, provided you have a good

midwife, but since the progress of your labor can also depend to some extent

on your state of mind, having fewer worries can be helpful.

Sandy from Alaska

PS I had a VBAC in such a hospital in Alaska in 1986.

http://www.vaccinationnews.com

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

c sect

I read with interest the posts about births.

My only son was born by emergency c sect after 23 hrs of labor--we went to

Bradley classes and used the Brewer diet. I highly reccomend Bradley! It

taught me to ask ?'s and make my own decisions.

I had high blood pressure at the end and so was induced--I didn't think it

would be a problem I was induced with Cytotec (I have since changed my

opinion on this) and nothing happened so we went home and my water broke

within an hour--I labored at home for 7 hrs and went to the hospital and was

4 cm --I sat in the jacuzzi for hours--even fell asleep--6 hrs later--4 cm.

The Dr wanted me on Pitocin which I asked her to delay--I really was

laboring fine and not in awful pain. We delayed the pit for 2 hrs no

change and then the stupid pitocin sent me over the edge. My baby was born

4 hrs later because my bp went up. his heart rate down, I never went past 4

and he never dropped past -2 station--they start at -3. My ob really did

listen to me and work with me and told me the next a.m that the cord was

wrapped twice around PJ's neck and that I have a narrow pelvis (can she tell

that from inside?) I feel that God kept him from dropping and the canal from

opening so that the cord didn't pinch--so maybe the c sect was necessary? or

was it from the cytotec?

My baby had to be transferred to NICU 18 hrs later because he was

throwing up blood--he was there 5 days and they determined he had an ulcer

from the labor--he had a huge bruise on the back of his head from trying to

be born.

I'd like any input anyone has about any of the things that happened to us.

Don't worry about hurting my feelings:) I am afraid to have a homebirth

because of the way that birth went and because he received care so quickly

when he was sick--however I want a VBAC next time and fewer interventions

than the ones I had

any VBAC info would be helpful too

Malissa

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January 6, 2002

I am totally interested in this thread also! I called and made an

appt with a different dr. Fri, because my dr. will not even consider

a VBAC, even though he told me 3 years ago that I " had plenty of

room, I was just exhausted " , if I only would have known the

complications from having my belly opened, I would have labored

another 10 hours, (plus, if I could have had real food and water!!)

So my friend who is a L & D nurse gave me some suggestions which

included a VBAC friendly dr, a birth plan, and some classes. Plus,

she said she would be with me the entire labor, even if she wasn't on

duty at the time. I am totally scared of the option to deliver at

home, I am almost 30 minutes from the hospital. As suggested by

someone on this list, I've read the risks with another section and

VBAC, and am finding I would rather risk the VBAC. But, I will spend

alot of time at home in labor. HOpefully I like this new dr, but if

not, I will keep looking!

michelle

> I read with interest the posts about births.

>

> My only son was born by emergency c sect after 23 hrs of labor--we

went to

> Bradley classes and used the Brewer diet. I highly reccomend

Bradley! It

> taught me to ask ?'s and make my own decisions.

>

> I had high blood pressure at the end and so was induced--I didn't

think it

> would be a problem I was induced with Cytotec (I have since

changed my

> opinion on this) and nothing happened so we went home and my water

broke

> within an hour--I labored at home for 7 hrs and went to the

hospital and was

> 4 cm --I sat in the jacuzzi for hours--even fell asleep--6 hrs

later--4 cm.

> The Dr wanted me on Pitocin which I asked her to delay--I really

was

> laboring fine and not in awful pain. We delayed the pit for 2 hrs

no

> change and then the stupid pitocin sent me over the edge. My baby

was born

> 4 hrs later because my bp went up. his heart rate down, I never

went past 4

> and he never dropped past -2 station--they start at -3. My ob

really did

> listen to me and work with me and told me the next a.m that the

cord was

> wrapped twice around PJ's neck and that I have a narrow pelvis (can

she tell

> that from inside?) I feel that God kept him from dropping and the

canal from

> opening so that the cord didn't pinch--so maybe the c sect was

necessary? or

> was it from the cytotec?

> My baby had to be transferred to NICU 18 hrs later because he

was

> throwing up blood--he was there 5 days and they determined he had

an ulcer

> from the labor--he had a huge bruise on the back of his head from

trying to

> be born.

>

> I'd like any input anyone has about any of the things that happened

to us.

> Don't worry about hurting my feelings:) I am afraid to have a

homebirth

> because of the way that birth went and because he received care so

quickly

> when he was sick--however I want a VBAC next time and fewer

interventions

> than the ones I had

>

> any VBAC info would be helpful too

> Malissa

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

January 6, 2002

Ok- I'll try to put my thoughts in order, but if I get to rambling and stop

making sense PLEASE don't be afraid to ask for a further explanation!! I know

what I know... but sometimes it's hard to convey what is clear as glass to me

and clear as mud to someone else!!

First... high blood pressure... your blood pressure can be elevated, and not be

a big deal. It's a big deal when there is extreme elevation. Not to the baby

necessarily, but to the mother because it can cause seizures, and other major

complications. To start with, it's critically important to get an ACCURATE blood

pressure reading. Make sure the cuff is the right size for your arm. Take

several readings. Ask different people to take the reading. Eat, rest, and take

multiple readings later. I assume you probably did this... but for the record, I

feel it's important to never just get hyped up about a higher reading one or two

times. I would also start a high quality, high protein diet at the first sign of

high blood pressure. I would also expect multiple signs of pre-eclampsia (which

is what the doctor was worried about) in addition to just elevated blood

pressure.

All that said... on to the induction.

Induction is a bad idea. Very bad. 40 weeks gestation is an arbitrary about of

time for pregnancy that was actually set in medieval times by a self proclaimed

OB! No kidding, it's a researchable fact!! He said pregnancy should be 40

weeks... and so it was. Only, it isn't. It's normal for women to go well under,

and well over 40 weeks. Not all apples ripen on a tree at the same time, so why

should all children ripen in the womb the same? Very simple logic that has of

course, failed to be noted in the medical circles.

What does that mean? It means that when you induce a baby a week or two before

the 'Due' date, you could in theory easily be inducing that baby 4-6 or more

weeks before it would actually be ready to be born. There is no way of telling.

There is ******NO****** safe time frame for induction. None. Babies are due when

their little bodies clear their mothers.

So, here you are with an induction under way when the baby is quite obviously

NOT ready to come out. Guess what... your body isn't ready for that baby to come

out either!! Before labor happens, there are tons of complicated and subtle

things going on. Tendons and ligaments loosen, hormone shift, a myriad of things

that get your body ready to undergo the shift from incubating the baby to

birthing the baby. Of course those things aren't going to happen if your body

isn't ready to give birth!! If the baby isn't ready, it would be a real bad

thing for your body to eject it!! When you force an induction, you are literally

only forcing dilation. You can't force all the complex physiological changes

that would naturally lead up to birth.

It's very likely that your body would have undergone those changes, which would

have allowed it to stretch and give birth to your baby just fine had it been

READY. The key word here is READY. You and your baby were not. It's not wonder

the drugs couldn't force what was not meant to be!

So why do some inductions work? I guess the same reason vaccines don't cause

obvious physical harm to all people. Some people get off easier. Some women are

closer to term when they are induced... and things go ok. Obviously a lot of

women aren't so lucky when more than 25% are ending up with c-sections in the

US.

As for the cord being wrapped... big deal. A lot of babies have the cord

wrapped. One of my best friends gave birth to her daughter (unassisted, at home)

with the cord wrapped around her neck multiple times. They simply held her head

close to her mothers body as she was born and somersaulted her out, then

unwrapped it. Another dear friend of mine had her son born THROUGH the looped

cored that was around his neck. They were able to pull the cord out some, loosen

it, and he slid through the loop. In a natural, unhindered labor their would be

very little risk of cord compression. Your bag of waters would have been intact

providing plenty of cushioning. This is yet another reason that AROM (artificial

rupture of membranes) is such a bad idea. There is no way to know if the baby

needs that cushioning. There is simple NO reason to rupture membranes

artificially. They will, and do break on their own when the time is right. Which

is usually shortly before the baby is born.

I'm sorry you had a c-section. To be real honest, I think you set yourself up

for it! Please understand I don't mean that in a mean way!! Simply that you had

an awful lot of compounding factors against you.

There is simply NO way for your OB to know your pelvis was too small. That's a

bunch of BS. Had your body been loose and ready, your pelvis could have

stretched tremendously. There is simply no way to know how much your body will

give before it does... and trust me.... you can give A LOT!!! After birthing two

large babies... I can assure you your body can do simply amazing things,

especially when it's not interfered with!

Don't be afraid of a natural birth in the future... especially a home birth!!

Educate yourself. Be mistrustful of intervention, of anything that forces what

you and your baby are obviously not ready to do!!

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: Malissa Chapin

I'd like any input anyone has about any of the things that happened to us.

Don't worry about hurting my feelings:) I am afraid to have a homebirth

because of the way that birth went and because he received care so quickly

when he was sick--however I want a VBAC next time and fewer interventions

than the ones I had

any VBAC info would be helpful too

Malissa

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

January 6, 2002

>>>I would have my own L & D (pipedream) nurse so that I could have gone

natural.>>

Look into getting a doula (a professional birth assistant) IMO they are a must

if you want to have a natural hospital birth. I am in the process of becoming a

doula myself. They are there just for you. They won't leave your side. They will

stick up for you when nurses or doc want to perform an unnecessary intervention.

They will also have things on hand to help you cope (birthing ball, rice sock

for massage, ect.) You should really look into for your next birth. It is

*better* than your own L & D nurse.

SAH-AP-BF mom to

Skyler (2/4/99) and

my home/water birth baby Sylvia Marie (7-16-01)

wife to (6/14/97)

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

" Mothers, believe in yourselves,

claim the authority of intuitive knowing

and women's mysteries, and use

this to make the experience of giving

birth even more free and fulfilling for

your daughters. "

" Heart and Hands "

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

January 6, 2002

They will, and do break on their own when the time is right. Which is usually

shortly before the baby is born.

ok Liz ... I now have a question ... well maybe more than one ...

my oldest ... I can almost guarantee when I conceived ... Jan 7 ... he was born

on Sept 8 ... pretty good huh? lol, except for the due date was 9/21 ... so he

was 20 days early aas they say ... now, if it was really time for him to be

born, should I have dilated? (I did, but it was a long long time) My water

broke and hour later my contractions started an hour after that they were a

minute long a minute and a half apart and he was still not born for 13 hours

..... Obviously, I have lots and lots of reading to do if I'm going to have

another one ... I wouldn't have traded my OB for anything in the world ... the

only thing I wish with both of my boys is that I would have my own L & D

(pipedream) nurse so that I could have gone natural. With my youngest, if she'd

been allowed to stay with me and reminded me to breathe (I have a problem

remembering to breathe when I'm stressed lol) ... I could have done it in a

heartbeat .... but I chickened out ... NEXT TIME though ... right?

just curious

January 6, 2002

I just realized that instead of suggesting a midwife at your side, I should

have said " doula " . (It's been a long time.....) Although having a midwife

in the hospital is also a good idea.

In my case, she really saved me from having things start going awry, and I

was able to have my VBAC without any drugs.

It is really important to trust your body and the birth process, because

otherwise you start setting yourself up to accept interventions which are

usually at best unnecessary, and at worst lead to complications. Have

someone you trust who knows your wishes at your side and who will be an

advocate for you, and help bolster your resolve if you get overly tired.

One thing I would suggest in preparation for birth is to start squatting,

even before you get pregnant if possible, but as soon as you know you are

pregnant at the latest. Gravity is the greatest birth aid, but if you don't

have the strength to squat, you cannot take advantage of it. And, of

course, do not lie down. Luckily, in the hospital where I gave birth, even

though my legs weren't strong enough to squat as long as I needed to, there

was a bar at the end of the bed to lean on and I did so with such gusto that

my diaphragm ached for days afterwards.

Sandy

http://www.vaccinationnews.com

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

Re: c sect

>>>I would have my own L & D (pipedream) nurse so that I could have gone

natural.>>

Look into getting a doula (a professional birth assistant) IMO they are a

must if you want to have a natural hospital birth. I am in the process of

becoming a doula myself. They are there just for you. They won't leave your

side. They will stick up for you when nurses or doc want to perform an

unnecessary intervention. They will also have things on hand to help you

cope (birthing ball, rice sock for massage, ect.) You should really look

into for your next birth. It is *better* than your own L & D nurse.

SAH-AP-BF mom to

Skyler (2/4/99) and

my home/water birth baby Sylvia Marie (7-16-01)

wife to (6/14/97)

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

" Mothers, believe in yourselves,

claim the authority of intuitive knowing

and women's mysteries, and use

this to make the experience of giving

birth even more free and fulfilling for

your daughters. "

" Heart and Hands "

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

January 6, 2002

Ok... I'm missing the question... did you eventually dilate and birth vaginally?

Did just your forewaters break??

With Magnus, I had a forewaters break as I reached complete dilation as

transition hit. But, as he really got close to being born later I reached in and

felt a bulge of waters over his head... and as he was born there was a HUGE gush

and the hindwaters came rushing out with him. It's pretty common to have a

forewater break, little gushes here and there, but still have a protective

cushion over the head with the whole shebang letting loose as the baby is born.

Kinda neat the way it works out!

As for slow dilation... you have to keep something in mind here... slow is

relative. Slow compared to what? Me? My neighbor? The lady down the street? Some

women never have active labor, have three contractions and out pops a baby. Some

women have active contractions that dilate them slowly over a period of weeks

(kid you not... I've seen it first hand).

Another thing to remember is that the hospital setting is not natural. Were you

up and moving? IV free? Drug free? Did you eat and drink and maintain both

natural energy and hydration?? What was your mindset like? Were you an active

part of your labor with a positive mind set helping that baby out?

Birth is like a big puzzle. There are many, many pieces that fit together to

form the complete picture. When you start augmenting any of the pieces, they no

longer for a perfect picture. The end result (in this case, the baby being born)

may be a recognizable picture... but it will not be as clear as it would have if

it had not been distorted. Hope that makes sense!! Simply put (I know... I

should just not try with the analogies! LOL!!), the more you mess with the

natural process, the less your body will be able to function efficiently. That

said... long labors may just be what you and your baby need! That's the beauty

of it... we are all unique and to deny that is what gets people in trouble!!

Liz

Re: c sect

They will, and do break on their own when the time is right. Which is usually

shortly before the baby is born.

ok Liz ... I now have a question ... well maybe more than one ...

my oldest ... I can almost guarantee when I conceived ... Jan 7 ... he was

born on Sept 8 ... pretty good huh? lol, except for the due date was 9/21 ...

so he was 20 days early aas they say ... now, if it was really time for him to

be born, should I have dilated? (I did, but it was a long long time) My water