Guest guest Posted August 8, 2001 Report Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hi, Recently, there has been some discussion about the immune stimulating properties of MGN-3 and Beta glucan. People taking MGN 3 but not taking Beta glucan, have complained that their anti-cancer immune therapy is not working. I would like to try and explain how I see differences between these two natural products. If one makes a mistake in their understanding of the difference in action of these two products, then the beneficial effect one is seeking may not occur. Beta glucan is a macrophage activate or activator, MGN 3 is a Natural Killer cell activator. The macrophage is the largest immune cell and organizes the other immune cells through antigen presentation and the immune cascade. The macrophage is designed to attack and digest cancer cells and then display recognizable parts of the cancer cell, called antigens, on it's surface. T. cells and Natural Killer cells can then examine the surface of the macrophage to see which antigens the macrophage wants them to attack. Although Natural Killer cells can recognize some cancer cells, they are much more effective when working with the activated macrophage. If the macrophage is not activated and hence failes to present cancer antigens on it's surface, then T. cells and to some extent Natural Killer cells, will be unable to identify the cancer cells. Although MGN 3 activate's Natural Killer cells, the Natural Killer cells still need to examine the macrophage surface to find out which antigens they are supposed to go and look for. Because MGN 3 activates Natural Killer cells, and Beta glucan activates macrophages, the two can work synergistically together. But natural killer and T. cells rely on the macrophage for antigen presentation to gain recognition of what is tumor and what is self. Taking MGN 3 without taking beta glucan will not lead to effective anti-cancer immune therapy because the T cells and inactivated macrophages will not help attack the cancer cells. That is why people complained that they took MGN 3, without taking Beta glucan, and their cancer got worse. moonbeam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2001 Report Share Posted August 9, 2001 visit www.cytorex.com --- moonbeam@... wrote: > > Hi, > Recently, there has been some discussion > about the immune > stimulating properties of MGN-3 and Beta glucan. > People taking MGN 3 > but not taking Beta glucan, have complained that > their anti-cancer > immune therapy is not working. I would like to try > and explain how I > see differences between these two natural products. > If one makes a > mistake in their understanding of the difference in > action of these > two products, then the beneficial effect one is > seeking may not > occur. > > Beta glucan is a macrophage activate or activator, > MGN 3 is a > Natural Killer cell activator. The macrophage is the > largest immune > cell and organizes the other immune cells through > antigen > presentation and the immune cascade. The macrophage > is > designed to attack and digest cancer cells and then > display > recognizable parts of the cancer cell, called > antigens, on it's > surface. T. cells and Natural Killer cells can then > examine the > surface of the macrophage to see which antigens the > macrophage wants > them to attack. Although Natural Killer cells can > recognize some > cancer cells, they are much more effective when > working with the > activated macrophage. If the macrophage is not > activated and hence > failes to present cancer antigens on it's surface, > then T. cells and > to some extent Natural Killer cells, will be unable > to identify the > cancer cells. Although MGN 3 activate's Natural > Killer cells, the > Natural Killer cells still need to examine the > macrophage surface to > find out which antigens they are supposed to go and > look for. > Because MGN 3 activates Natural Killer cells, > and Beta glucan activates > macrophages, the two can work synergistically > together. But > natural killer and T. cells rely on the macrophage > for antigen presentation to gain > recognition of what is tumor and what is self. > Taking MGN 3 without taking beta glucan > will not lead to effective anti-cancer immune > therapy because the T cells and inactivated > macrophages will not help attack the cancer cells. > > That is why people complained that they took MGN > 3, > without taking Beta glucan, and their cancer got > worse. > > moonbeam > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2001 Report Share Posted August 10, 2001 cures for cancer From: Strategic Trader <strategic_cg@...> Date sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:51:31 -0700 (PDT) Send reply to: cures for cancer Subject: Re: MGN3 + Bet Glucan > visit www.cytorex.com Hi, I went to the above website you suggested. Quickly I found their link to National Cancer Institute sponsered trials in USA. Previously I have posted articles very critical of the National Cancer Institute (NCI). The idea of limiting ones research to cancer trials conducted in USA is very naive. If cancer is cured in paients taking beta glucan in a Japanese clinical trial, then would not you think that the NCI would sponser such trials in USA? Of course they never would as the NCI = big Pharmaceutical companies, sharing common board members. Only patented products are suitable for trials. Beta Glucan is not patented and hence is unsuitable for clinical trials done by the NCI. Even if they did they wold ruin the trials by giving suboptimal doses, once a week or month, instead of daily. They also would fail to give Vitamin C in conjuction with the trial, in order to make the trial fail. They also would not give the necessary pineapple and paw paw enzymes that work syergisticaly with the beta glucan. moonbeam > --- moonbeam@... wrote: > > > > Hi, > > Recently, there has been some discussion > > about the immune > > stimulating properties of MGN-3 and Beta glucan. > > People taking MGN 3 > > but not taking Beta glucan, have complained that > > their anti-cancer > > immune therapy is not working. I would like to try > > and explain how I > > see differences between these two natural products. > > If one makes a > > mistake in their understanding of the difference in > > action of these > > two products, then the beneficial effect one is > > seeking may not > > occur. > > > > Beta glucan is a macrophage activate or activator, > > MGN 3 is a > > Natural Killer cell activator. The macrophage is the > > largest immune > > cell and organizes the other immune cells through > > antigen > > presentation and the immune cascade. The macrophage > > is > > designed to attack and digest cancer cells and then > > display > > recognizable parts of the cancer cell, called > > antigens, on it's > > surface. T. cells and Natural Killer cells can then > > examine the > > surface of the macrophage to see which antigens the > > macrophage wants > > them to attack. Although Natural Killer cells can > > recognize some > > cancer cells, they are much more effective when > > working with the > > activated macrophage. If the macrophage is not > > activated and hence > > failes to present cancer antigens on it's surface, > > then T. cells and > > to some extent Natural Killer cells, will be unable > > to identify the > > cancer cells. Although MGN 3 activate's Natural > > Killer cells, the > > Natural Killer cells still need to examine the > > macrophage surface to > > find out which antigens they are supposed to go and > > look for. > > Because MGN 3 activates Natural Killer cells, > > and Beta glucan activates > > macrophages, the two can work synergistically > > together. But > > natural killer and T. cells rely on the macrophage > > for antigen presentation to gain > > recognition of what is tumor and what is self. > > Taking MGN 3 without taking beta glucan > > will not lead to effective anti-cancer immune > > therapy because the T cells and inactivated > > macrophages will not help attack the cancer cells. > > > > That is why people complained that they took MGN > > 3, > > without taking Beta glucan, and their cancer got > > worse. > > > > moonbeam > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 <<<<< If cancer is cured in paients taking beta glucan in a Japanese clinical trial, then would not you think that the NCI would sponser such trials in USA? Of course they never would as the NCI = big Pharmaceutical companies, sharing common board members. Only patented products are suitable for trials. Beta Glucan is not patented and hence is unsuitable for clinical trials done by the NCI. Even if they did they wold ruin the trials by giving suboptimal doses, once a week or month, instead of daily. They also would fail to give Vitamin C in conjuction with the trial, in order to make the trial fail. They also would not give the necessary pineapple and paw paw enzymes that work syergisticaly with the beta glucan. >>>>> Moonbeam, I think I fail to understand the logic here. If the Japanese would not deliberately ruin their trials and in fact make it work, why would the NCI NOT want it to work also ? If your response is -- the Big Pharmas won't allow it to happen, then why would they allow it to happen in Japan ? After all there are also big pharmacuetical companies in Japan. Unless of course, you are implying that Japanese Pharmas are more ethical than US Pharmas .... Next question --- Could you kindly refer us all to any write-up regarding the successful Japanese Beta Glucan trial you refered to ? Thanks, Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 Hi, " Next question --- Could you kindly refer us all to any write-up regarding the successful Japanese Beta Glucan trial you refered to ? " It's PSK. " If the Japanese would not deliberately ruin their trials " They have done a lot of studies first, then the trials. Anyone knows any published study based on yeast beta glucan? PSK is sold as drug in Japan. If you go to NCI website you can type in PSK and search. Same thing is happening in China now but it's PSP. Good luck Song > > <<<<< > If cancer is cured in paients taking beta glucan in a Japanese > clinical trial, then would not you think that the NCI would sponser > such trials in USA? Of course they never > would as the NCI = big Pharmaceutical companies, sharing common > board members. Only patented products are suitable for trials. > > Beta Glucan is not patented and hence is unsuitable for clinical > trials done by the NCI. Even if they did they wold ruin the trials by > giving suboptimal doses, once a week > or month, instead of daily. They also would fail to give Vitamin C in > conjuction with the > trial, in order to make the trial fail. They also would not give the > necessary pineapple and paw paw enzymes that work syergisticaly with > the beta glucan. > >>>>> > > Moonbeam, I think I fail to understand the logic here. > If the Japanese would not deliberately ruin their trials and > in fact make it work, why would the NCI NOT want it to work also ? > > If your response is -- the Big Pharmas won't allow it to happen, > then why would they allow it to happen in Japan ? After all > there are also big pharmacuetical companies in Japan. > > Unless of course, you are implying that Japanese Pharmas are > more ethical than US Pharmas .... > > Next question --- Could you kindly refer us all to any write-up > regarding the successful Japanese Beta Glucan trial you refered to ? > > Thanks, > Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 cures for cancer From: songaltavista (DOT) net Date sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:09:41 -0000 Send reply to: cures for cancer Subject: Re: MGN3 + Bet Glucan > Hi, > > "Next question --- Could you kindly refer us all to any write-up > regarding the successful Japanese Beta Glucan trial you refered to ?" It's > PSK. > "If the Japanese would not deliberately ruin their trials" > Anyone knows any published study based on yeast beta glucan? Hi, The types of trials done in Japan are completely different to the types of trials done in USA; for example ethanol or saline injections into tumors, done in Japan and Italy, not done in USA. Most of the beta glucan clinical trials on cancer that I have read about were done with patented forms of mushroom derived beta glucan. Typical doses were 3gms daily. When a company funds research with a patented beta glucan mushroom extract, they know they will be sure of making large profits from the trials. It is not even a gamble as centuries of use shows it works. On the other hand, I have been discussing clinical trials with non patented yeast beta glucan. If I fund such trials, at great expense to me, then anyone at all, will be able to sell the yeast beta glucan and use the "cancer-cure" proof that I funded, sending me bankrupt and making them rich. So I will not fund such trials. Also, nearly all of the orgainisations that collect donations for cancer trials are simply fronts for big drug companies, so none of those donated $millions, ever gets to fund a yeast beta glucan, cancer clinical trial in USA. Plenty of cheap in-vitro and animal trials with yeast beta glucan have been done, that show it works however. But we dont count such trials as they are not human trials. PSK is a patented mushroom derived beta glucan product. QUOTE from a beta glucan (PSK) clinical trial. H Koike A Saji S Ogawa N Sakamoto J of immunochemotherapy as adjuvant treatment after curative resection of gastric cancer. Study Group of Immunochemotherapy with PSK for Gastric Cancer. : Lancet (1994 May 7) 343(8906):1122-6 We have assessed the efficacy of protein-bound polysaccharide (PSK) in addition to standard chemotherapy in patients who had undergone curative gastrectomy at 46 institutions in central Japan. 262 patients were randomly assigned standard treatment alone or with PSK. The minimum follow-up time was 5 years (range 5-7 years). PSK improved both the 5-year disease-free rate (70.7 vs 59.4% in standard treatment group, p = 0.047) and 5-year survival (73.0 vs 60.0%, p = 0.044). Addition of PSK to adjuvant chemotherapy with mitomycin and fluorouracil is beneficial as treatment after curative gastrectomy. Yokoyama Gastrointestinal Hospital Japan. 90329611 M Hayashi Y Ishimitsu T Fujimura T Iwasaki K Katano M Yamamoto H Kimura Y Takesue M Kondo M et al Prolongation of disease-free period gained by oral polysaccharide K (PSK) administration after curative surgical operation of colorectal cancer. Cancer Immunol Immunother (1990) 31(5):261-8 To examine the clinical efficacy and the mechanism of action of polysaccharide K (PSK), a protein-bound polysaccharide extracted from a Basidiomycetes fungus, a randomized double-blind trial was performed by administering PSK to 56 patients and a placebo to another group of 55 patients after surgical operations on their colorectal cancers. The rate of patients in remission (or disease- free) was significantly higher in the PSK group than in the placebo group; the difference between both groups was statistically significant at P less than 0.05 by the log-rank test. The survival rate of patients was also significantly (P less than 0.05) higher in the PSK group than in the control group. The most significant laboratory finding was that polymorphonuclear leukocytes from PSK- treated patients showed remarkable enhancement in their activities, such as random and/or chemotactic locomotion, and phagocytic activity, when compared with those in the control group. The beneficial effects were probably due to the activation of leukocyte functions as one of the many biological-response-modifying (activities induced by PSK). address: First Department of Surgery Kyushu University School of Medicine Fukuoka Japan. 94091790 K Mitsuhashi N Saito Y Takahashi M Katano S Shiojima K Furuta M Niibe H of krestin (PSK) as adjuvant treatment on the prognosis after radical radiotherapy in patients with non-small cell lung cancer. : Anticancer Res (1993 Sep-Oct) 13(5C):1815-20 1976 to 1985, 185 patients with non-small cell lung cancer at stages I-III were treated. In particular, as a result of administering PSK as adjuvant treatment to patients with epidermoid carcinoma of the lung showing satisfactory tumour shrinkage after radiotherapy, the five year survival rate of the patients with stages I or II disease, as well as stage III was 39% and 22% respectively, compared with the non-administered group's 16% and 5%. These differences are statistically significant. 92136955 T Tsuchiya S Iijima N Aso K Suzuki K Nishiyama K Amano T Takahashi T Murayama N Oka H et al , controlled study on adjuvant immunochemotherapy with PSK in curatively resected colorectal cancer. The ative Study Group of Surgical Adjuvant Immunochemotherapy for Cancer of Colon and Rectum (Kanagawa). : Dis Colon Rectum (1992 Feb) 35(2):123-30 A randomized, controlled trial of adjuvant immunochemotherapy with PSK (Kureha Chemical Industry Co., Tokyo, Japan) in curatively resected colorectal cancer was studied in 35 institutions in the Kanagawa prefecture. From March 1985 to February 1987, 462 patients were registered. Four hundred forty-eight of those patients (97.0 percent) satisfied the eligibility criteria. The control group received mitomycin C intravenously on the day of and the day after surgery, followed by oral 5-fluorouracil (5-FU) administration for over six months. The PSK group received PSK orally for over three years, in addition to mitomycin C and 5-FU as in the control group. At the end of February 1990, the median follow-up time for this study was four years (range, three to five years). The disease-free survival curve and the survival curve of the PSK group were better than those of the control group, and differences between the two groups were statistically significant (disease-free survival, P = 0.013; survival, P = 0.013). These results indicate that adjuvant immunochemotherapy with PSK was beneficial for curatively resected colorectal cancer. address: Department of Surgery II Tokai University Kanagawa Japan. moonbeam > > > PSK is sold as drug in Japan. If you go to NCI website you can type in PSK > and search. Same thing is happening in China now but it's PSP. > > > Good luck > Song > > > > > > <<<<< > > If cancer is cured in paients taking beta glucan in a Japanese > > clinical trial, then would not you think that the NCI would sponser such > > trials in USA? Of course they never > > would as the NCI = big Pharmaceutical companies, sharing common > > board members. Only patented products are suitable for trials. > > > > Beta Glucan is not patented and hence is unsuitable for clinical > > trials done by the NCI. Even if they did they wold ruin the trials > by > > giving suboptimal doses, once a week > > or month, instead of daily. They also would fail to give Vitamin C > in > > conjuction with the > > trial, in order to make the trial fail. They also would not give > the > > necessary pineapple and paw paw enzymes that work syergisticaly with the > > beta glucan. > > >>>>> > > > > Moonbeam, I think I fail to understand the logic here. > > If the Japanese would not deliberately ruin their trials and > > in fact make it work, why would the NCI NOT want it to work also ? > > > > If your response is -- the Big Pharmas won't allow it to happen, > > then why would they allow it to happen in Japan ? After all > > there are also big pharmacuetical companies in Japan. > > > > Unless of course, you are implying that Japanese Pharmas are > > more ethical than US Pharmas .... > > > > Next question --- Could you kindly refer us all to any write-up > > regarding the successful Japanese Beta Glucan trial you refered to ? > > > > Thanks, > > Nate > > > Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there. > Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by > visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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