Dr. Barrett ABC Chat Transcript

[Guest guest]

MODERATOR at 1:00pm ET

Stay tuned for our live chat with Dr. Barrett. Please click on " Show

New Messages " to update your page and view new posts.

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MODERATOR at 1:03pm ET

Welcome Dr. Barrett! Thanks for joining us.

You say: " I wish the word 'alternative' would go away. " Are there any

effective alternative cancer therapies, in your view?

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DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:06pm ET

" Alternative " is a slogan, not a definable group of therapies. If something

works, it would not be proper to refer to it as alternative.

The vast majority of cancer treatments referred to as alternative obviously

don't work. It's unlikely that any others work.

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MODERATOR at 1:06pm ET

Dr. Barrett, when we asked our users to sumbit questions for the chat, we

received a lot of angry messages from people saying you're discrediting many

treatments that might hold promise. Why do you think people are so angry?

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DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:08pm ET

Some people have beliefs about health that they hold with the same fervor as

people hold religious beliefs, and when their beliefs are stepped on, they

get angry.

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MODERATOR at 1:09pm ET

writes: " The cancer clinics in Tijuana are an easy pick for quackery.

Have you ever researched the results for chemotherapy and radiation

treatments? Where can I find documented information on these practices?

Exactly how effective are these treatments? Why do 1500 people die each day

in the U.S. of cancer with the use of American medical procedures? " Any

comment?

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DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:11pm ET

The overall 5-year survival rate for cancer is about five years. There are

thousands of studies that test different regimens for specific cancers at

specific stages. This research is tabulated and is readily available through

cancer specialists and through the National Cancer Institute and in medical

databases.

The people who promote so-called " alternative " treatments almost never even

bother to keep score. If there were any genuine evidence that any

" alternative " treatment works, the medical research community would be the

path to the door.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

MODERATOR at 1:12pm ET

Kali Ashcroft writes: " There are many cancer clinics in Mexico that are

quite effective, but there are just as many if not more that are out to

swindel you. As a breast cancer survivor I should know. I would be dead

today if it were not for alternative medicine. The clinics that you featured

in your story must have been the bottom of the barrel because I haven't

heard of any of them, or any of the treatments they use. "

Any comment?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:14pm ET

The 50 or so clinics to which the program referred specialize in ripping off

Americans and are seldom if ever used by Mexican patients.

Mexico does have some up to date facilities, but that has nothing whatsoever

to do with the so-called " alternative " clinics.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

Bob Beiswenger at 1:14pm ET

Fleming's discovery of penicillin was thought to be quackery at one time and

so was chemotherapy. What if YOU are wrong about what you belive to be

quackery? You could be hurting a lot of people. Let the individual

decide...don't take away freedom of choice!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:18pm ET

Individuals can decide to do whatever they want. The issue is whether or not

government should permit crime to flourish.

There have been a few instances in modern times where the medical profession

was a bit slow in accepting new ideas. But there's a difference between

promising new ideas and quackery.

To my knowledge, there has not been a single idea in the past 50 years that

was thought to be quackery and was later demonstrated to be useful. It's not

likely there will be many, because now that scientific methods have been

developed, the scientific community is very likely to be able to tell the

difference between a promising new idea and a piece of quack nonsense.

It also should be pointed out that Fleming didn't try to sell penicillin for

$15,000 a treatment. He and his colleagues understood what was necessary to

develop the evidence. They did so, and it has been accepted.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

Donna at 1:19pm ET

Do you think the traditional medical field fails in helping people

sometimes, which leads them to the " alternative " quackery? Traditional

medicine has changed so much in the past 10 years that it seems there is no

longer the doctor/patient relationship that there used to be. It's like

" drive-through " medicine whether it is in the doctor's office or hospital.

Doctors blame the insurance companies and the insurance companies blame the

doctors. And the patient with a disease suffers the consequences of

inadequate treatment and care. God help us all! If only we could get past

the greed then maybe we would be like the good Samaritan.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:22pm ET

Studies show that the main factor in seeking alternative methods is not a

failure of the doctor/patient relationship but a combination of misleading

publicity, patient fear or desperation, and a " miss-no-bets " philopsophy.

Blaming quackery's success on medicine's failure is like regarding

astrology's popularity as a failure of astronomy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

MODERATOR at 1:22pm ET

What's the most common health-related scam?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:23pm ET

It's the promotion of unnecessary vitamins -- the claim that it is difficult

of impossible for people to get the nutrients they need from ordinary food.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

MODERATOR at 1:23pm ET

What are some of the worst cases of medical fraud you've come across?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:29pm ET

The most dangerous quackery is chelation therapy. This is a series of

intravenous infusions claimed to clean out the clogging of coronary (heart)

arteries. It's dangerous because it is marketed as a substitute to bypass

sugery. People who really need bypass surgery but choose chelation instead

are at high risk for heart attack and death.

There are electro-diagnostic devices that are claimed to diagnose disease

throughout the body by detecting " imbalances of electro-magnetic energy. "

These devices are fakes and can lead to large amounts of wasted money and to

unwarranted patient anxiety.

Another problem is that many chiropractors urge patients to have their

spines examined and " adjusted " monthly or even weekly for long periods of

time. Although appropriate spinal manipulation can help many people with

back pain, treatment should be stopped when the pain goes away.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

at 1:30pm ET

You state, " If there were any genuine evidence that any " alternative "

treatment works, the medical research community would be the path to the

door. "

What percentage of research is funded by pharmaceutical companies and what

percent by non-pharmaceutical concerns? Also, where is the most money for

researchers?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:34pm ET

I don't know the relative percentages, but several things should be kept in

mind. Many people who do research decide for themselves what they are going

to study. It's possible to do preliminary studies that cost little money.

Once preliminary studies show that something has enough promise, it's

relatively easy to get funding assistance.

Quite frankly the idea that a treatment has not been proven because there's

not enough money to study it is quack propoganda. Some of the people making

this claim are taking in millions of dollars a year selling their

treatments.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

Terry Polevoy - HealthWatcher. at 1:36pm ET

Biopulse is a publicly traded company in the U.S. Why were they closed, and

then allowed to re-open by the Mexican government?

Why hasn't the American government prosecuted these con artists?

They all have offices in California, and should be charged with fraud

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:40pm ET

Biopulse is a clinic that offers a number of treatments, the most noteworthy

of which is a treatment in which people are given insulin and put in a coma.

The insulin drives down blood sugar, but there's no logical reason to

believe that blood sugar has any influence on cancer.

It's a treatment that once was used in psychiatry but was abandonned about

50 years ago when better treatment became availalble.

I believe that the Mexican government has for decades regarded these clinics

as tourist attractions that can bring dollars into Mexico. I would certainly

like to see the U.S. government put pressure on the Mexican government so

that Americans will no longer be ripped off by these clinics.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

from s188.tnt1.nrf.va.dialup.rcn.com at 1:41pm ET

To whom does one turn if they have been victim of these quacks within the

United States? How do we stop them from hurting others?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:43pm ET

In the U.S., complaints can be made to the State Attorney General. In some

cases, there may be grounds for a private lawsuit.

Anyone interested in exploring the question of a private lawsuit is welcome

to send the details of their experience to my e-mail address:

" victims@.... "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

MODERATOR at 1:45pm ET

What can consumers do to safeguard against quackery and medical fraud?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:48pm ET

We have an article on Quackwatch.com called " Signs of a Quacky Web Site "

which we believe can help you avoid the vast majority of untrustworthy

information sources.

We also have a page called a " Special Message for Patients Seeking

Alternative Cancer Treatments " which indexes about 75 articles and other

sources of information about improper treatment.

We're also setting up a separate Web site called " Internet Health Pilot "

which will be an excellent guide to reliable sites.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:50pm ET

We also have a free e-mail newsletter on Quackwatch.com called " Consumer

Health Digest " which covers pertinent news as well as positive and negative

consumer strategies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

MODERATOR at 1:54pm ET

Thanks to Dr. Barrett and all those who joined the chat. If you'd

like to join a message board discussion or browse through recent chat

transcripts, please visit our community index.

[Guest guest]

> DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:11pm ET

> The overall 5-year survival rate for cancer is about five

years.

WHO is accusing WHOM of double talk here?!!?

What a blowhard!

[Guest guest]

I am sorry, but Barrett is wrong in many instances, let us say his attitude

is wrong; why is he on our forum? pls advise

[Guest guest]

Carolean06@... wrote:

<<I am sorry, but Barrett is wrong in many instances, let us say

his attitude is wrong; why is he on our forum? pls advise>>

One should always know one's enemies.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

<Quackbusters >

From: " Creel " <ccreel@...>

Date sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:47:21 -0500

Subject: Dr. Barrett ABC Chat Transcript

Send reply to: cures for cancer

> DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:11pm ET The overall 5-year survival rate

> for cancer is about five years. If there were any genuine evidence that any

" alternative "

> treatment works, the medical research community would be the path to the

> door.

Hi Dr Barret,

A large scale clinical trial of an

illegal

substance - PSK (being 75% beta-1,3d-glucan, 25% protein) produced a 100%

increase

in patient survival when combined with chemotherapy, compared to those who took

the

same chemotherapy without PSK - over a five year period. The FDA has decided to

ban

PSK from sale in USA.

moonbeam

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:12pm ET Kali Ashcroft writes: " There are many

> cancer clinics in Mexico that are quite effective, but there are just as

> many if not more that are out to swindel you. As a breast cancer survivor

> I should know. I would be dead today if it were not for alternative

> medicine. The clinics that you featured in your story must have been the

> bottom of the barrel because I haven't heard of any of them, or any of the

> treatments they use. " Any comment?

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:14pm ET The 50 or so clinics to which the

> program referred specialize in ripping off Americans and are seldom if

> ever used by Mexican patients. Mexico does have some up to date

> facilities, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the so-called

> " alternative " clinics.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- Bob Beiswenger at 1:14pm ET Fleming's discovery of penicillin was

> thought to be quackery at one time and so was chemotherapy. What if YOU

> are wrong about what you belive to be quackery? You could be hurting a lot

> of people. Let the individual decide...don't take away freedom of choice!

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:18pm ET Individuals can decide to do

> whatever they want. The issue is whether or not government should permit

> crime to flourish. There have been a few instances in modern times where

> the medical profession was a bit slow in accepting new ideas. But there's

> a difference between promising new ideas and quackery.

>

> To my knowledge, there has not been a single idea in the past 50 years

> that was thought to be quackery and was later demonstrated to be useful.

> It's not likely there will be many, because now that scientific methods

> have been developed, the scientific community is very likely to be able to

> tell the difference between a promising new idea and a piece of quack

> nonsense.

>

> It also should be pointed out that Fleming didn't try to sell penicillin

> for $15,000 a treatment. He and his colleagues understood what was

> necessary to develop the evidence. They did so, and it has been accepted.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- Donna at 1:19pm ET Do you think the traditional medical field

> fails in helping people sometimes, which leads them to the " alternative "

> quackery? Traditional medicine has changed so much in the past 10 years

> that it seems there is no longer the doctor/patient relationship that

> there used to be. It's like " drive-through " medicine whether it is in the

> doctor's office or hospital. Doctors blame the insurance companies and the

> insurance companies blame the doctors. And the patient with a disease

> suffers the consequences of inadequate treatment and care. God help us

> all! If only we could get past the greed then maybe we would be like the

> good Samaritan.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:22pm ET Studies show that the main factor

> in seeking alternative methods is not a failure of the doctor/patient

> relationship but a combination of misleading publicity, patient fear or

> desperation, and a " miss-no-bets " philopsophy. Blaming quackery's success

> on medicine's failure is like regarding astrology's popularity as a

> failure of astronomy.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:22pm ET What's the most common health-related scam?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:23pm ET It's the promotion of unnecessary

> vitamins -- the claim that it is difficult of impossible for people to get

> the nutrients they need from ordinary food.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:23pm ET What are some of the worst cases of medical

> fraud you've come across?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:29pm ET The most dangerous quackery is

> chelation therapy. This is a series of intravenous infusions claimed to

> clean out the clogging of coronary (heart) arteries. It's dangerous

> because it is marketed as a substitute to bypass sugery. People who really

> need bypass surgery but choose chelation instead are at high risk for

> heart attack and death. There are electro-diagnostic devices that are

> claimed to diagnose disease throughout the body by detecting " imbalances

> of electro-magnetic energy. " These devices are fakes and can lead to large

> amounts of wasted money and to unwarranted patient anxiety.

>

> Another problem is that many chiropractors urge patients to have their

> spines examined and " adjusted " monthly or even weekly for long periods of

> time. Although appropriate spinal manipulation can help many people with

> back pain, treatment should be stopped when the pain goes away.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- at 1:30pm ET You state, " If there were any genuine

> evidence that any " alternative " treatment works, the medical research

> community would be the path to the door. "

>

> What percentage of research is funded by pharmaceutical companies and what

> percent by non-pharmaceutical concerns? Also, where is the most money for

> researchers?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:34pm ET I don't know the relative

> percentages, but several things should be kept in mind. Many people who do

> research decide for themselves what they are going to study. It's possible

> to do preliminary studies that cost little money. Once preliminary studies

> show that something has enough promise, it's relatively easy to get

> funding assistance. Quite frankly the idea that a treatment has not been

> proven because there's not enough money to study it is quack propoganda.

> Some of the people making this claim are taking in millions of dollars a

> year selling their treatments.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- Terry Polevoy - HealthWatcher. at 1:36pm ET Biopulse is a publicly

> traded company in the U.S. Why were they closed, and then allowed to

> re-open by the Mexican government? Why hasn't the American government

> prosecuted these con artists? They all have offices in California, and

> should be charged with fraud

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:40pm ET Biopulse is a clinic that offers

> a number of treatments, the most noteworthy of which is a treatment in

> which people are given insulin and put in a coma. The insulin drives down

> blood sugar, but there's no logical reason to believe that blood sugar has

> any influence on cancer. It's a treatment that once was used in psychiatry

> but was abandonned about 50 years ago when better treatment became

> availalble.

>

> I believe that the Mexican government has for decades regarded these

> clinics as tourist attractions that can bring dollars into Mexico. I would

> certainly like to see the U.S. government put pressure on the Mexican

> government so that Americans will no longer be ripped off by these

> clinics.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- from s188.tnt1.nrf.va.dialup.rcn.com at 1:41pm ET To whom

> does one turn if they have been victim of these quacks within the United

> States? How do we stop them from hurting others?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:43pm ET In the U.S., complaints can be

> made to the State Attorney General. In some cases, there may be grounds

> for a private lawsuit. Anyone interested in exploring the question of a

> private lawsuit is welcome to send the details of their experience to my

> e-mail address: " victims@.... "

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:45pm ET What can consumers do to safeguard against

> quackery and medical fraud?

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:48pm ET We have an article on

> Quackwatch.com called " Signs of a Quacky Web Site " which we believe can

> help you avoid the vast majority of untrustworthy information sources. We

> also have a page called a " Special Message for Patients Seeking

> Alternative Cancer Treatments " which indexes about 75 articles and other

> sources of information about improper treatment.

>

> We're also setting up a separate Web site called " Internet Health Pilot "

> which will be an excellent guide to reliable sites.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:50pm ET We also have a free e-mail

> newsletter on Quackwatch.com called " Consumer Health Digest " which covers

> pertinent news as well as positive and negative consumer strategies.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:54pm ET Thanks to Dr. Barrett and all those

> who joined the chat. If you'd like to join a message board discussion or

> browse through recent chat transcripts, please visit our community index.

>

>

>

> Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there.

> Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by

> visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Barrett's statement " the five-year survival rate for cancer is

about five years " would cause me to ponder whether or not to pay attention to

anything he says even if I didn't believe he isn't a licensed physician from

what I have read. All I know is that there are some quacks out there who want

to rip off people in their time of need and fear and that there are natural

methods that help people heal from cancer but one doesn't hear in the mainstream

media much about that.

My mother is five years past her diagnosis of ovarian cancer (football sized)

with metastases to lymphatics. Her doctors told her she had a 70% chance of

recurrence even with her chemo within one year. Thanks to the use of my zapper

which Barrett says doesn't work (how come some people using my zapper have seen

worms, (roundworms) and tapeworms in their stool? She also used a unified

negative field magnetic sleep pad, a 10 minute rebounder session every day for

five years,(remember the oncologist pooh pooed the rebounder and I'll bet never

studied it.), she drank 2 quarts of water a day, and did a visualization tape

three times a day for about 7 months. She eats no processed food as she

home-cooks everything. On her five-year check up, her Ca 125 was normal and no

signs of cancer could be found. At 84 years of age and a shy woman, she never

told the doctors what alternative or natural methods she used. They, therefore

think that the chemotherapy worked. I am not against chemotherapy as I think it

may have its place. I know the body can be healed from chemotherapy. Radiation

may be a different story. I just think that you have to change other things in

your life if your body is to heal from cancer.

As a former RN who worked in a cancer clinic and administered chemotherapy, I am

grateful for natural methods. I am also grateful my mother was willing to give

methods I suggested a chance. Maybe the term that should be used is " natural

methods " as opposed to " alternative medicine " . I personally prefer " natural " as

opposed to " alternative " .

I, too, was horrified by seeing the Primetime show. It is too bad that ABC

didn't have the courage to do a program on all the good " alternative medicine

cancer or natural health clinics " in the US. I have written them giving them

the names of a couple in the US where I know people have been helped and not

ripped off financially. Seeing that show, has increased my gratitude for this

list where there seems to be integrity and sharing and caring. Hopefully many

more people will learn about this list and read the archives as well.

Kallie

Dr. Barrett ABC Chat Transcript

[Guest guest]

Kallie,

Thanks for being more eloquent than I was. His statement was so

ridiculous, all I could manage was the verbal equivalent of

laughing and pointing! ;^)

I've lost no less than 3 relatives and 2 (young!) friends to his

" superior " medicine... any time his opinion gets discredited is a

happy day for me!

>>>>>>>

Dr. Barrett's statement " the five-year survival rate for

cancer is about five years " would cause me to ponder whether or

not to pay attention to anything he says even if I didn't believe

he isn't a licensed physician from what I have read. All I know

is that there are some quacks out there who want to rip off

people in their time of need and fear and that there are natural

methods that help people heal from cancer but one doesn't hear in

the mainstream media much about that.

>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Moonbeam,

Could you please elaborate on the FDA ban on PSK? I

have been buying it for several months from JHS

Naturals. When would this ban take place? Thanks.

Cheryl W.

--- moonbeam@... wrote:

> <Quackbusters >

> From: " Creel "

> <ccreel@...>

> Date sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:47:21 -0500

> Subject: Dr. Barrett

> ABC Chat Transcript

> Send reply to: cures for cancer

> > DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:11pm ET The overall

> 5-year survival rate

> > for cancer is about five years. If there were any

> genuine evidence that any " alternative "

> > treatment works, the medical research community

> would be the path to the

> > door.

>

> Hi Dr Barret,

> A large

> scale clinical trial of an illegal

> substance - PSK (being 75% beta-1,3d-glucan, 25%

> protein) produced a 100% increase

> in patient survival when combined with chemotherapy,

> compared to those who took the

> same chemotherapy without PSK - over a five year

> period. The FDA has decided to ban

> PSK from sale in USA.

>

> moonbeam

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:12pm ET Kali Ashcroft

> writes: " There are many

> > cancer clinics in Mexico that are quite effective,

> but there are just as

> > many if not more that are out to swindel you. As a

> breast cancer survivor

> > I should know. I would be dead today if it were

> not for alternative

> > medicine. The clinics that you featured in your

> story must have been the

> > bottom of the barrel because I haven't heard of

> any of them, or any of the

> > treatments they use. " Any comment?

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:14pm ET The 50 or

> so clinics to which the

> > program referred specialize in ripping off

> Americans and are seldom if

> > ever used by Mexican patients. Mexico does have

> some up to date

> > facilities, but that has nothing whatsoever to do

> with the so-called

> > " alternative " clinics.

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- Bob Beiswenger at 1:14pm ET Fleming's

> discovery of penicillin was

> > thought to be quackery at one time and so was

> chemotherapy. What if YOU

> > are wrong about what you belive to be quackery?

> You could be hurting a lot

> > of people. Let the individual decide...don't take

> away freedom of choice!

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:18pm ET

> Individuals can decide to do

> > whatever they want. The issue is whether or not

> government should permit

> > crime to flourish. There have been a few instances

> in modern times where

> > the medical profession was a bit slow in accepting

> new ideas. But there's

> > a difference between promising new ideas and

> quackery.

> >

> > To my knowledge, there has not been a single idea

> in the past 50 years

> > that was thought to be quackery and was later

> demonstrated to be useful.

> > It's not likely there will be many, because now

> that scientific methods

> > have been developed, the scientific community is

> very likely to be able to

> > tell the difference between a promising new idea

> and a piece of quack

> > nonsense.

> >

> > It also should be pointed out that Fleming didn't

> try to sell penicillin

> > for $15,000 a treatment. He and his colleagues

> understood what was

> > necessary to develop the evidence. They did so,

> and it has been accepted.

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- Donna at 1:19pm ET Do you think the

> traditional medical field

> > fails in helping people sometimes, which leads

> them to the " alternative "

> > quackery? Traditional medicine has changed so much

> in the past 10 years

> > that it seems there is no longer the

> doctor/patient relationship that

> > there used to be. It's like " drive-through "

> medicine whether it is in the

> > doctor's office or hospital. Doctors blame the

> insurance companies and the

> > insurance companies blame the doctors. And the

> patient with a disease

> > suffers the consequences of inadequate treatment

> and care. God help us

> > all! If only we could get past the greed then

> maybe we would be like the

> > good Samaritan.

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:22pm ET Studies

> show that the main factor

> > in seeking alternative methods is not a failure of

> the doctor/patient

> > relationship but a combination of misleading

> publicity, patient fear or

> > desperation, and a " miss-no-bets " philopsophy.

> Blaming quackery's success

> > on medicine's failure is like regarding

> astrology's popularity as a

> > failure of astronomy.

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:22pm ET What's the most

> common health-related scam?

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:23pm ET It's the

> promotion of unnecessary

> > vitamins -- the claim that it is difficult of

> impossible for people to get

> > the nutrients they need from ordinary food.

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:23pm ET What are some of

> the worst cases of medical

> > fraud you've come across?

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:29pm ET The most

> dangerous quackery is

> > chelation therapy. This is a series of intravenous

> infusions claimed to

> > clean out the clogging of coronary (heart)

> arteries. It's dangerous

> > because it is marketed as a substitute to bypass

> sugery. People who really

> > need bypass surgery but choose chelation instead

> are at high risk for

> > heart attack and death. There are

> electro-diagnostic devices that are

> > claimed to diagnose disease throughout the body by

> detecting " imbalances

> > of electro-magnetic energy. " These devices are

> fakes and can lead to large

> > amounts of wasted money and to unwarranted patient

> anxiety.

> >

> > Another problem is that many chiropractors urge

> patients to have their

> > spines examined and " adjusted " monthly or even

> weekly for long periods of

> > time. Although appropriate spinal manipulation can

> help many people with

> > back pain, treatment should be stopped when the

> pain goes away.

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- at 1:30pm ET You state, " If

> there were any genuine

> > evidence that any " alternative " treatment works,

> the medical research

> > community would be the path to the door. "

> >

> > What percentage of research is funded by

> pharmaceutical companies and what

> > percent by non-pharmaceutical concerns? Also,

> where is the most money for

> > researchers?

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:34pm ET I don't

> know the relative

> > percentages, but several things should be kept in

> mind. Many people who do

> > research decide for themselves what they are going

> to study. It's possible

> > to do preliminary studies that cost little money.

> Once preliminary studies

> > show that something has enough promise, it's

> relatively easy to get

> > funding assistance. Quite frankly the idea that a

> treatment has not been

> > proven because there's not enough money to study

> it is quack propoganda.

> > Some of the people making this claim are taking in

> millions of dollars a

> > year selling their treatments.

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- Terry Polevoy - HealthWatcher. at 1:36pm

> ET Biopulse is a publicly

> > traded company in the U.S. Why were they closed,

> and then allowed to

> > re-open by the Mexican government? Why hasn't the

> American government

> > prosecuted these con artists? They all have

> offices in California, and

> > should be charged with fraud

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:40pm ET Biopulse

> is a clinic that offers

> > a number of treatments, the most noteworthy of

> which is a treatment in

> > which people are given insulin and put in a coma.

> The insulin drives down

> > blood sugar, but there's no logical reason to

> believe that blood sugar has

> > any influence on cancer. It's a treatment that

> once was used in psychiatry

> > but was abandonned about 50 years ago when better

> treatment became

> > availalble.

> >

> > I believe that the Mexican government has for

> decades regarded these

> > clinics as tourist attractions that can bring

> dollars into Mexico. I would

> > certainly like to see the U.S. government put

> pressure on the Mexican

> > government so that Americans will no longer be

> ripped off by these

> > clinics.

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- from s188.tnt1.nrf.va.dialup.rcn.com

> at 1:41pm ET To whom

> > does one turn if they have been victim of these

> quacks within the United

> > States? How do we stop them from hurting others?

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:43pm ET In the

> U.S., complaints can be

> > made to the State Attorney General. In some cases,

> there may be grounds

> > for a private lawsuit. Anyone interested in

> exploring the question of a

> > private lawsuit is welcome to send the details of

> their experience to my

> > e-mail address: " victims@.... "

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:45pm ET What can consumers

> do to safeguard against

> > quackery and medical fraud?

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:48pm ET We have

> an article on

> > Quackwatch.com called " Signs of a Quacky Web Site "

> which we believe can

> > help you avoid the vast majority of untrustworthy

> information sources. We

> > also have a page called a " Special Message for

> Patients Seeking

> > Alternative Cancer Treatments " which indexes about

> 75 articles and other

> > sources of information about improper treatment.

> >

> > We're also setting up a separate Web site called

> " Internet Health Pilot "

> > which will be an excellent guide to reliable

> sites.

> >

> >

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- DR. STEPHEN BARRETT at 1:50pm ET We also

> have a free e-mail

> > newsletter on Quackwatch.com called " Consumer

> Health Digest " which covers

> > pertinent news as well as positive and negative

> consumer strategies.

> >

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- ---- MODERATOR at 1:54pm ET Thanks to Dr.

> Barrett and all those

> > who joined the chat. If you'd like to join a

> message board discussion or

> > browse through recent chat transcripts, please

> visit our community index.

> >

> >

> >

> > Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and

> post your own links there.

> > Unsubscribe by sending email to

> cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by

> > visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

<cures for cancer >

From: " kallie miller " <4optimallife@...>

Date sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:22:30 -0500

Subject: Re: Dr. Barrett ABC Chat Transcript

Send reply to: cures for cancer

> She also used a unified negative field magnetic sleep pad, a 10

> minute rebounder session every day for five years,(remember the oncologist

> pooh pnst chemotherapy as I think it may have its place. I know the body

> can be healed from chemotherapy. Radiation may be a different story. I

> just think that you have to change other things in your life if your body

> is to heal from cancer.

Hi,

I am in favor of direct stimulation of the tumor with electric current as

it

produced 25% complete remmision in 8000 patients in Japan. The placement of

wires

directly into the tumor is far superior to relying on some hand held zapper. I

personally do not favor the unproven hand held zappers.

You say you know the body can be healed from chemo but you do not say how.

These things were shown to help protect and heal the body from harmful chemo.

Spirulina, shark liver oil, selenium, beta glucan mushrooms.

I have studied radioprotective agents for many years.

These things were shown to protect from radiation damage.

Spirulina, Beta Glucan, superoxide dismutase (SOD), selenium, squalene.

Moreover

extracts from Spirulina were able to repair DNA damaged by radiation.

So why is it that doctors and nurses are not taught about radio protective

agents.

Is it because that would imply harm from radiotherapy?

Most of the radioprotective studies were done by the USA military, Bethesda,

land, Virginia.

moonbeam

[Guest guest]

Moonbean,

Dr. 's plate technique may also stimulate tumors more

directly. (The new plate technique of zappping targets specific

organs.)

I disagree with you that hand-held ZAPPERS are " unproven " . My

experience is that hand-held zappers do kill germs. Try it for a

beginning cold, or for a toothache. It has stopped my cold, and

stopped a toothache. (A good colloidal silver is also effective

for toothaches.)

To see if a zapper kills germs, try zapping yourself for 7

minutes, but do NOT DO the second and third zappings at 20-minute

intervals. If your experience is similar to mine, you will

experience sniffles as the germs come out of your cells, just as

Dr. warns you they might.

For most home users, a hand-held zapper can be effective for

small jobs. And for people with an overdose of germs, a hand-held

zapper can kill germs, which helps free the immune system to

tackle other jobs, such as killing cancer cells.

The word " unproven " is a popular gimmick to discredit natural

disease fighters. Please be careful when you use this term.

\\\

=(o o)=

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--V---+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

> Hi,

> I am in favor of direct stimulation of the tumor with electric current

as it

>produced 25% complete remmision in 8000 patients in Japan. The placement of

wires

>directly into the tumor is far superior to relying on some hand held zapper. I

>personally do not favor the unproven hand held zappers.

(snip)

> moonbeam

>

[Guest guest]

> I disagree with you that hand-held ZAPPERS are " unproven " . My

> experience is that hand-held zappers do kill germs. Try it for a

> beginning cold, or for a toothache. It has stopped my cold,

Hi Joyce,

my friend Alan relied on colloidal silver and a zapper and

essiac

to cure his cancer, he died, and I decided to find something that did work

against

cancer. That was 7 years ago and I did find things that worked against cancer.

best wishes,

moonbeam

[Guest guest]

Moonbeam,

I did not say a zapper kills cancer cells. I said it kills GERMS.

The zapper is effective against viruses, bacteria, and fungi, but

it does not penetrate deep tissues. Dr. 's newer, more

effective plate zapping is more effective.

The Rife Bare Instrument penetrates your whole body. You can buy

a book and make one yourself. There is now an F-Scan which can

identify exactly what germs you have in your body, and target

them.

http://www.rt66.com/~rifetech/ toxins

http://www.rt66.com/~rifetech/order.html

http://www.royalrife.com/f-scan.html

Germ killers are used when your body is overwhelmed with germs

(e.g., flu symptoms). I feel you should take it only when

needed.

From what you wrote, your friend did not take nutritional

supplements to build up his immune system. This is a very

important part of Dr. 's protocol.

Dr. uses detoxification, parasite cleansing, food

medicines, and a change of lifestyle. Dr. says that unless

you stop putting carcinogens into your body, the cancer will

return. Your friend did a bare minimum, and apparently that was

not enough.

Thousands of people have been helped or cured of their diseases,

including cancer, following Dr. 's protocol. You can order

her testimonial book and read about 1,000 of these testimonies.

https://www1511.boca15-verio.com/drclar/utilities/productss.htm?rep=DCRA

\\\

=(o o)=

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--V---+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>> I disagree with you that hand-held ZAPPERS are " unproven " . My

>> experience is that hand-held zappers do kill germs. Try it for a

>> beginning cold, or for a toothache. It has stopped my cold,

>

> Hi Joyce,

> my friend Alan relied on colloidal silver

>and a zapper and essiac to cure his cancer, he died, and I

>decided to find something that did work against cancer. That

>was 7 years ago and I did find things that worked against

>cancer.

>

> best wishes,

> moonbeam

>

>

>

>Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there.

Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by

visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have seen zappers help some people, but my experience with them is not very

positive. I used one for a couple of months regularly, and didn't notice any

difference at all in the way I felt. ( I had a friend that was an electronic

engineer check it to see if it was working properly, it was. (I built the

think myself from Hulda book)) I think it's a part of the puzzle, trying to

find what works for you. You've said it yourself moonbeam, Don't put all

your eggs in one basket. I don't think I would ever rely on just one

modality or gadget or suppliment. Like taking beta glucan if you don't take

the other supps with it, you're wasteing your money.

Welcome back moonbeam, I missed you. Klaus

In a message dated 2/1/02 2:18:25 PM, moonbeam@... writes:

>> I disagree with you that hand-held ZAPPERS are " unproven " . My

>> experience is that hand-held zappers do kill germs. Try it for a

>> beginning cold, or for a toothache. It has stopped my cold,

>

> Hi Joyce,

> my friend Alan relied on colloidal silver and a zapper

>and essiac

>to cure his cancer, he died, and I decided to find something that did work

>against

>cancer. That was 7 years ago and I did find things that worked against

>cancer.

>

> best wishes,

> moonbeam

[Guest guest]

Hello, I'm taking beta glucan for advanced prostate cancer. I take it on

an empty stomach and then take the vit C powder later so it doesn't directly

mix. Is this proper mixing? Thanks, Pat in Mexico

Re: Dr. Barrett ABC Chat Transcript

> I have seen zappers help some people, but my experience with them is not

very

> positive. I used one for a couple of months regularly, and didn't notice

any

> difference at all in the way I felt. ( I had a friend that was an

electronic

> engineer check it to see if it was working properly, it was. (I built the

> think myself from Hulda book)) I think it's a part of the puzzle, trying

to

> find what works for you. You've said it yourself moonbeam, Don't put all

> your eggs in one basket. I don't think I would ever rely on just one

> modality or gadget or suppliment. Like taking beta glucan if you don't

take

> the other supps with it, you're wasteing your money.

>

> Welcome back moonbeam, I missed you. Klaus

> In a message dated 2/1/02 2:18:25 PM, moonbeam@... writes:

>

> >> I disagree with you that hand-held ZAPPERS are " unproven " . My

> >> experience is that hand-held zappers do kill germs. Try it for a

> >> beginning cold, or for a toothache. It has stopped my cold,

> >

> > Hi Joyce,

> > my friend Alan relied on colloidal silver and a zapper

> >and essiac

> >to cure his cancer, he died, and I decided to find something that did

work

> >against

> >cancer. That was 7 years ago and I did find things that worked against

> >cancer.

> >

> > best wishes,

> > moonbeam

>

>

> Get HUGE info at http://www.cures for cancer.ws, and post your own links there.

Unsubscribe by sending email to cures for cancer-unsubscribeegroups or by

visiting http://www.bobhurt.com/subunsub.mv

>

>