Re: Discussion of prognosis

[Guest guest]

Joe,

He did not link autism to vaccinations. I do not think he even

knew when he started doing this in the early 1990's that thimerosal

was in vaccines. What he did was to state that autism was a

neurotoxicologic disorder, and proceed on that premise.

He does not use LA. He does not use DMSA in low-dose, frequent-dosing

schedule, and he uses DMPS IV also. <shudder>. But, he has obtained

some good results, but these results have not been consistent in

all children. Personally, I think his use of the non-outgassing

sauna has contributed greatly to his good results when they have

occurred.

I think that with the use of DMSA and LA in small, frequently-given

doses, the prognosis for most patients will be much better, but it

is still very early. It is probably reasonable to assume that they

will at least be equal.

Amy

------------------ Reply Separator --------------------

Originally From: CentreAv2C@...

Subject: Re: [ ] Discussion of prognosis

Date: 08/01/2000 11:10pm

In a message dated 7/28/00 11:53:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

AndyCutler@... writes:

<< Yes. Dr. Edelson proved that some autistic children can be cured

by

detoxification. >>

I'm just curious, did Dr. Edelson link autism, mercury and

vaccinations?

I know that the DAN protocol listed heavy metals, but I was not aware

of the

link with thimerosal until the joint statement of the CDC and AAP was

made in

July of 1999. It sounds like Dr. Edelson had been doing this for

several

years. Did he use alpha lipoic acid? If not, then comparing his

studies to

what we are all trying to do would be like comparing the flight speed

of fish

to birds. Occasionally a fish does jump out of the water.

Joe Marciano

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[Guest guest]

We use a sauna too, just these past 2 weeks cocurrent with ALA, all their

nutiritonal rampings, cilantro and chlorella (sorry, controversial here)

Kathy

Re: [ ] Discussion of prognosis

>In a message dated 8/1/00 10:32:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

>aholmesmd@... writes:

>

><< he uses DMPS IV also. <shudder>. But, he has obtained

> some good results, but these results have not been consistent in

> all children. Personally, I think his use of the non-outgassing

> sauna has contributed greatly to his good results when they have

> occurred. >>

>

>Besides the DMPS and the sauna, are there any other things in his protocol

>that might be worth investigating? Any idea on his specific protocol for

the

>sauna? I read over his website but didn't see any particulars on the

>protocol used with the kids in the case studies. I think that would be

very

>interesting and also interesting to see how the kids who didn't respond

>differed with the ones who did. Did he give you any insight into this?

>Gaylen

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That'l be the day

Kathy

Re: [ ] Discussion of prognosis

>In a message dated 7/28/00 11:36:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>aholmesmd@... writes:

>

><< I plan to retire again,

> once a lot of our children are OK, then we can all go to

> Disney World. >>

>

>Given the potential for the number of people who might attend, we may have

to

>book the whole park for the whole season, and charge the cost to the CDC,

as

>a remedial therapy.

>

>Joe Marciano

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Joe,

The only time I have seen them in my son was once or twice. They were

small and looked like little white specks not so much threads and they seem

to come off the bowel movement. Sound familiar? Dont know if I should call

doc or not. Have not seen any on tape or anything.

Thanks

crystal

[Guest guest]

>You have to treat the whole family, each with a single pill that doctors

prescribe without needing to see the person (pinworms are very common).

Pinworms do not require a prescription treatment unless you think you need

to subsidize a doctor. The Mediterranean diet includes garlic because it is

effective at preventing intestinal parasites common to the area. My family

is from Germany but my Grandma was one of those home remedy people. Among

her treatments was CLO during measles season and garlic foods in summer.

Bob Fisher

Kalamazoo, Michigan

" Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change

the world; it's the only thing that ever does " Margaret Mead

[Guest guest]

Gaylen,

His sauna program consists of 20 days straight of sauna 30 minutes,

4 times a day, then twice a day for a year after that. He also

uses massages, exercise, showers in between saunas.

Amy

------------------ Reply Separator --------------------

Originally From: Nomoremetals@...

Subject: Re: [ ] Discussion of prognosis

Date: 08/02/2000 02:02am

In a message dated 8/1/00 10:32:07 PM Central Daylight Time,

aholmesmd@... writes:

<< he uses DMPS IV also. <shudder>. But, he has obtained

some good results, but these results have not been consistent in

all children. Personally, I think his use of the non-outgassing

sauna has contributed greatly to his good results when they have

occurred. >>

Besides the DMPS and the sauna, are there any other things in his

protocol

that might be worth investigating? Any idea on his specific protocol

for the

sauna? I read over his website but didn't see any particulars on the

protocol used with the kids in the case studies. I think that would

be very

interesting and also interesting to see how the kids who didn't

respond

differed with the ones who did. Did he give you any insight into

this?

Gaylen

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[Guest guest]

Yes, Vitamin A was used as an ANDECTOTE to measles way back then! You will

find something very odd here. The WHO organization KNEW that if they did

not administer VITAMIN A to third world country children, they would die

from vaccines becuase of malnourishment concerns. They actually had a

campaign of administering it BEFORE the VACCINE!!. They knew it would cause

CHRONIC brain/gut problems as WELL! Now, how do you feel about the WHO

organization? Did they think about our kids? Did the pediatrician tell us

THAT ONE? ARRRRGGGHHH

Kathy

Re: [ ] Re: Discussion of prognosis

>>You have to treat the whole family, each with a single pill that doctors

>prescribe without needing to see the person (pinworms are very common).

>

>Pinworms do not require a prescription treatment unless you think you need

>to subsidize a doctor. The Mediterranean diet includes garlic because it is

>effective at preventing intestinal parasites common to the area. My family

>is from Germany but my Grandma was one of those home remedy people. Among

>her treatments was CLO during measles season and garlic foods in summer.

>

>Bob Fisher

>Kalamazoo, Michigan

> " Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can

change

>the world; it's the only thing that ever does " Margaret Mead

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Amy,

Can you say something more about this sauna therapy? What kind of

therapy is this? Have you tried it with children?

Thanks, Gerard.

Personally, I think his use of the non-outgassing

> sauna has contributed greatly to his good results when they have

> occurred.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Andy! I needed to hear that.

Barb

(who has just completed the first 7 days on, and is enjoying the 7 days

off!)

[ ] Discussion of prognosis

>Dr. Amy suggested:

>

>cure if chelated before adrenarche

>

>great improvement if chelated before puberty

>

>limited improvement if chelated afterwards.

>

>Personally I don't think it is that cut and dried. I am not that

>pessimistic. This may however have flowed from some discussions she and I

>did have about what stages of development present the greatest healing

>opportunities for the toxin injured brain.

>

>I also am not aware of any real clinical data on this.

>

>What I would say at this point is:

>

>Adrenarche (about age 8) is likely to cause significant healing if detoxed

>prior to it.

>

>Same for puberty.

>

>Detox itself will lead to some healing if nothing else is done.

>

>The brain does heal much more than the AMA religious dogma indicates.

>

>There are many active things you can do to increase brain healing.

>

>So I would say the earlier the better, and the earlier detox happens the

>less likely other active therapies (medical, " nutritional " or other) will

be

>needed. But I don't think I can make any cut and dried statements about

how

>well people will heal. Especially given the great interindividual

variation

>in their situation. Remember, the kids who got zapped are already the ones

>who had something unusual about them.

>

>In 5 or 10 years we may have a definitive answer to this question. It is

>unlikely you will hear it from any AMA worshippers for about another

century

>though. Since opportunities pass, as does life, if you wait I suggest

you

>get on with detox, be hopeful, and don't worry about exactly what the

>ultimate outcome will be. You will find that out soon enough if you try to

>get your kid better.

>

>Andy Cutler

>

>Andy Cutler

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gerard,

That's all I know, sorry. That is what Edelson told me he was

doing.

Amy

------------------ Reply Separator --------------------

Originally From: peart@...

Subject: Re: [ ] Discussion of prognosis

Date: 08/02/2000 05:00pm

Amy,

Can you say something more about this sauna therapy? What kind of

therapy is this? Have you tried it with children?

Thanks, Gerard.

Personally, I think his use of the non-outgassing

> sauna has contributed greatly to his good results when they have

> occurred.

>

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[Guest guest]

Amy,

You wrote before, about Edelson's protocol..

I think his use of the non-outgassing

sauna has contributed greatly to his good results when they have

occurred.

I've heard of dry saunas and moist, humid ones....can you describe the

type of sauna a little more completely?

Thanks,

Chris

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[Guest guest]

Can someone explain to this non-scientist how the creatine fits with the

test results? What does it mean?

Barb

Re: [ ] Discussion of prognosis

>One thing I would like to address to the parents of older children.

>My son is nine years old and diagnosed as autistic spectrum disorder. We

>started chelating with DMSA-SR using Dr. Holmes protocol about six weeks

ago.

>On the first chelation we obtained 4.9 micrograms/gram Creatinine (ref.

range

>0-3) and elevated lead, arsenic, alluminum, and tin. I had read " Turning

Lead

>Into Gold " three years ago and had been removing lead with cuprimine but

>after talking with Dr. Zigurts Strauts, was not given the appropriate use

of

>DMSA and couldn't get anything out. We were using the regular drug three

>times a day and not measuring anything. So we gave up at that time. That

was

>three years ago when my son was six. The technology and the understanding

>just wasn't there at the time unfortunately. But here we are again and we

>have not given up. What have we seen? During chelations my son is

irritable,

>tired, doesn't want to eat, agitated, crying. Between chelations he is more

>alert, talking more, understanding better, doing things he has never done

>before. Will he recover from this treatment? I don't know but he is getting

>better. He has had seizure activity in his brain most of his life and I

>believe it is caused by the mercury or a reaction to it. It doesn't respond

>to any antiseizure treatment, even surgery. If we can control this

activity,

>who knows what might be possible.

>

>I just wanted to relay our story because I think parents of older kids have

>reasons to be hopeful and should not give up in their search for help for

>their children.

>

>Ken Sokolski

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<< Can someone explain to this non-scientist how the creatine fits with the

test results? What does it mean? >>

Your kid's muscle tissue makes creatinine at a constant rate. Then he pees

it out. Roughly the same amount of creatinine comes out every day. So the

amount of creatinine in the urine is related to how big the kid is. Thus the

idea of reporting things per gram of creatinine is to try to report them on a

basis where comparison among people of different sizes is reasonably accurate.

Andy

[Guest guest]

From what I've been able to understand, it is a dry-heat sauna

that contains no glue or coatings on the wood that produce bad

fumes. That is my extent of sauna knowledge.

Amy

------------------ Reply Separator --------------------

Originally From: D Bogert <howard78@...>

Subject: Re: Re: [ ] Discussion of prognosis

Date: 08/02/2000 08:38pm

Amy,

You wrote before, about Edelson's protocol..

I think his use of the non-outgassing

sauna has contributed greatly to his good results when they have

occurred.

I've heard of dry saunas and moist, humid ones....can you describe the

type of sauna a little more completely?

Thanks,

Chris

________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

<< If your kidneys are damaged, which can apparently happen with mercury

toxicity, wouldn't that also affect the levels of creatinine in the urine

as opposed to the levels that are circulating? >>

Acute inorganic or elemental mercury poisoning damages the kidneys. Chronic

mercury poisoning does not, nor does organic mercury poisoning.

The amount of creatinine in each day's urine stays about constant even with

damaged kidneys. It is the amount in the blood that goes up.

Andy

[Guest guest]

Andy,

If your kidneys are damaged, which can apparently happen with mercury

toxicity, wouldn't that also affect the levels of creatinine in the urine

as opposed to the levels that are circulating?

A look through the literature this afternoon led me to conclude that

mercury toxicity may change the levels of creatinine in the urine, leaving

a buildup of the stuff in plasma which is also detectable. That might mean

that unless a child's plasma creatinine were measured at the same time as a

urine test, that all the values reported in terms of creatinine in the

urine may be inaccurate. This is why I have been saying for a year or two

that we really MUST get some renal specialists helping us with the

interpretation of urinary tests on children with autism for if the kidneys

are not functioning normally, what we read in those tests may not reflect

what we think they reflect.

At the meeting at the CDC in Atlanta, I showed a slide showing how protein

starvation would change the amount of sulfation in GAGs both in the brain,

and the sulfation of GAGs shed into the urine. From that we may infer

cautiously that systemically, protein starvation is likely to lead to

undersulfated GAGs. That is why I find the report below also very

interesting in that the mice that were protein deficient were MORE

resistent to mercury damage. Though this requires a little reading between

the lines, I think it may suggest that one of the mechanisms of the very

rapid toxicity that would lead to death in these animals may require some

binding to sulfated GAGs or sulfatides or something else very modified by

protein starvation. It would be nice to clarify that issue.

11: Toxicology 1996 Aug 1;112(1):11-7

Influence of dietary protein levels on the acute toxicity of methylmercury in

mice.

Adachi T, Yasutake A, Eto K, Hirayama K

Department of Basic Medical Scienes, National Institute for Minamata Disease,

Kumamoto, Japan.

The influence of dietary protein levels on the acute toxicity of methylmercury

(MeHg) was investigated using C57BL/6N male mice fed either a 24.8% protein

diet

(normal protein diet, NPD) or a 7.5% protein diet (low protein diet, LPD). When

MeHg was administered to each group of mice, all mice died at a medium or high

dose (80 or 120 mumol/kg, respectively) within 16 or 7 days, respectively, but

not at a low dose (40 mumol/kg) in both dietary groups. Although no difference

was observed in the survival rate at a medium dose, NPD-fed mice died earlier

despite lower brain Hg than LPD-fed mice at a high dose. Accordingly, death, in

our observations, could not be due to neural damage by MeHg. When a high

dose of

MeHg was administered to mice, plasma aspartate aminotransferase and alanine

aminotransferase activities increased in NPD-fed mice but not in LPD-fed

mice in

spite of similar hepatic Hg levels. Therefore, the higher susceptibility of the

liver could be reason for the shorter survival period in NPD-fed mice. Since

plasma creatinine increased within 24 h after MeHg administration at a

medium or

high dose, renal dysfunction could be a major factor in death. The present

results suggest that susceptibility to acute MeHg toxicity was higher in

NPD-fed

mice than in LPD-fed mice, possibly due to the difference in hepatic

susceptibility.

PMID: 8792844, UI: 96384984

t 8/3/2000 -040001:22 PM, you wrote:

><< Can someone explain to this non-scientist how the creatine fits with the

>test results? What does it mean? >>

>

>Your kid's muscle tissue makes creatinine at a constant rate. Then he pees

>it out. Roughly the same amount of creatinine comes out every day. So the

>amount of creatinine in the urine is related to how big the kid is. Thus the

>idea of reporting things per gram of creatinine is to try to report them on a

>basis where comparison among people of different sizes is reasonably accurate.

>

>Andy

[Guest guest]

so what does low creatinine mean? Ref range on doctors data for this is 21-76

and my sons level was 20.3 Also any ideas on extremely high sodium and

potassium?

Sodium result 6620 ref range DDL 760-2350

Potassium 3950 ref range DDL 360-1640

Is there something that could be lacking that could cause these extremely

high numbers? Anyone else see this on their urine tests?Take into

consideration his main drink is gatorade(lemon lime) but I only put half of

what it calls for in the container.

Thanks,

Kathi

Mom to Colten 3

[Guest guest]

<< so what does low creatinine mean? Ref range on doctors data for this is

21-76

and my sons level was 20.3 Also any ideas on extremely high sodium and

potassium?

Sodium result 6620 ref range DDL 760-2350

Potassium 3950 ref range DDL 360-1640

Is there something that could be lacking that could cause these extremely

high numbers? >>

Taken together these do suggest the possibility the test got messed up - has

this result come back more than once?

The low creatinine may mean he is small or has light musculature, or may mean

you didn't get all 24 hours worth of pee into the bucket.

The high Na and K may mean he has problems making adrenal hormones and

retaining them, or it may just mean he gets an unusually large quantity of

them from his gatorade.

Andy

[Guest guest]

this was the first 6 hour challange we did. So I dont have anything to look

back on.

Kathi

[Guest guest]

Pinworms

I had pinworms as a child and my mom bought some over the counter med for

it. It is an awful feeling to have these in the body. Get rid of them

fast.. I can't remember the name of the med but i am sure you can find it

just by looking in the drug store. kelly

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/1/00 2:11:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

kblanco@... writes:

<< tonsilla heh? That's a new one, do you know where I can get some?

Kathy >>

Our doctor supplied us with this marked on it. It was a self affixed label,

but I think it is a standard homeopathic remedy. I bet you could find it in

a handbook.

Joe Marciano

[Guest guest]

Does it have a brand name such as DOSLISOS? Then I can go and find it on

their web site?

Kathy

Re: [ ] Re: Discussion of prognosis

>In a message dated 8/1/00 2:11:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

>kblanco@... writes:

>

><< tonsilla heh? That's a new one, do you know where I can get some?

> Kathy >>

>

>Our doctor supplied us with this marked on it. It was a self affixed

label,

>but I think it is a standard homeopathic remedy. I bet you could find it

in

>a handbook.

>

>Joe Marciano

>

>

>

>