Zappers

[Guest guest]

What kind of success did you have with this pulser?

" M.D. " wrote:

> The only one that really works is a thumper made from a flash/strobe light

> from Radio Shack. You make some changes at the capacitor and you add the

> coil, and you have a super strong magnet... the other named magnetic

> pulsers, supposedly for use to help grow plants didn't work. We found some

> difference with the R.S. thumper...

> M.D.

>

> Re: zappers

>

> Hello ,

> What about the magnetic pulsers? Have you seen any success with those?

> Take Care,

> USA

[Guest guest]

This explanation looks very appealing. Is there any research backiing it up?

" Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph " wrote:

> It is not electricity that is hitting the neck, it is a pulsed magnetic

> field that goes through the neck. When the magnetic pulse reaches the coil

> of wire that is when the electricity is produced. A static magnet will not

> produce this effect, it must be a pulsed magnetic field. Now when a pulsed

> magnetic field goes through the cells, because they have water with minerals

> in them, an electric current in the cell is generated. This is what

> produces the healing. This microcurrent of electricity will burn the

> receptor sites of pathogens so they can no longer stick to human tissue, and

> the body passes them out through the normal elimination channels. The

> microcurrents do not effect healthy cells in any way adversely. In essence

> a magnetic pulcer charges the cells with electricity just like a battery

> charger charges a battery.

>

[Guest guest]

I thought zappers were just to get rid of parasites.

Joy

--- Bjorn Roxendal <roxendal@...> wrote:

> Thanks for sharing some research on zappers. We need

> more of this.

>

> " M.D. " wrote:

>

> > Dear list and Eliezer,

> > Here at the University of Baja California, were

> evaluated those zappers on

> > several diseases... the results: Just 10% of the

> treated patients reported

> > some improvement (we related that to a

> psychological effect ((placebo)) )

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I thought zappers were just to get rid of parasites.

Joy

--- Bjorn Roxendal <roxendal@...> wrote:

> Thanks for sharing some research on zappers. We need

> more of this.

>

> " M.D. " wrote:

>

> > Dear list and Eliezer,

> > Here at the University of Baja California, were

> evaluated those zappers on

> > several diseases... the results: Just 10% of the

> treated patients reported

> > some improvement (we related that to a

> psychological effect ((placebo)) )

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I thought zappers were just to get rid of parasites.

Joy

--- Bjorn Roxendal <roxendal@...> wrote:

> Thanks for sharing some research on zappers. We need

> more of this.

>

> " M.D. " wrote:

>

> > Dear list and Eliezer,

> > Here at the University of Baja California, were

> evaluated those zappers on

> > several diseases... the results: Just 10% of the

> treated patients reported

> > some improvement (we related that to a

> psychological effect ((placebo)) )

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Bjorn,

This thumper was made by Reid smith... I think that the modifications he

made to this Radio Shack strobe make it different.

This thumper can bend a sheet of iron, or repels/attract a washer so strong

that you can hear the shocking sound of the metal with the coil... please

make me a favor, contact Reid rsmith@... asking for the kind

of modifications he made to our thumpers. Report on patients follows.

Re: zappers

>

> Hello ,

> What about the magnetic pulsers? Have you seen any success with those?

> Take Care,

> USA

OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bjorn,

This thumper was made by Reid smith... I think that the modifications he

made to this Radio Shack strobe make it different.

This thumper can bend a sheet of iron, or repels/attract a washer so strong

that you can hear the shocking sound of the metal with the coil... please

make me a favor, contact Reid rsmith@... asking for the kind

of modifications he made to our thumpers. Report on patients follows.

Re: zappers

>

> Hello ,

> What about the magnetic pulsers? Have you seen any success with those?

> Take Care,

> USA

OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

[Guest guest]

Dear Joy,

Please try to get some info on " Bob Beck " " Hulda " " SOTA Electronics " ,

they suggest to treat almost any disease with this " zappers " , from AIDS to

Cancer... just to name some.

M.D.

P.S. Some suggest (or affirm) that parasites are the only cause of

diseases... getting rid of them and voila you are cured!

Re: zappers

I thought zappers were just to get rid of parasites.

Joy

--- Bjorn Roxendal <roxendal@...> wrote:

> Thanks for sharing some research on zappers. We need

> more of this.

>

> " M.D. " wrote:

>

> > Dear list and Eliezer,

> > Here at the University of Baja California, were

> evaluated those zappers on

> > several diseases... the results: Just 10% of the

> treated patients reported

> > some improvement (we related that to a

> psychological effect ((placebo)) )

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Would like to relate my experience with the Beck Blood Purifier. I used

it approx 4 times a week for 1-2 hrs, along with the suggested CS, and

ozonated water, and the magnetic pulser.

I did an experiment on a few ants (sorry animal lovers)- by placing

them in a bowl of water on a wet paper towel and zapping the water. They

were electrocuted in a few seconds.

I figured that if an ant could be zapped from a distance of several

inches, then a virus swimming by in the bloodstream just below the

surface should be zapped as well.

One noticable improvement was sinusitis cleared up. I'm no longer

constantly congested, however, I was using o3 water and cs as well.

I just finished trying to duplicate the suggestion to use the

Magnetic pulser to light a light bulb, but have no luck. It does

however, have a charge that effects other small appliances (like a

remote control) at a distance of 2-3 inches. I called Sota to ask if

this was a correct pulse and was told that they vary.

[Guest guest]

Would like to relate my experience with the Beck Blood Purifier. I used

it approx 4 times a week for 1-2 hrs, along with the suggested CS, and

ozonated water, and the magnetic pulser.

I did an experiment on a few ants (sorry animal lovers)- by placing

them in a bowl of water on a wet paper towel and zapping the water. They

were electrocuted in a few seconds.

I figured that if an ant could be zapped from a distance of several

inches, then a virus swimming by in the bloodstream just below the

surface should be zapped as well.

One noticable improvement was sinusitis cleared up. I'm no longer

constantly congested, however, I was using o3 water and cs as well.

I just finished trying to duplicate the suggestion to use the

Magnetic pulser to light a light bulb, but have no luck. It does

however, have a charge that effects other small appliances (like a

remote control) at a distance of 2-3 inches. I called Sota to ask if

this was a correct pulse and was told that they vary.

[Guest guest]

Standard physics about a pulsed magnetic wave.

Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph

Personal and Financial Freedom

www.naturalsolutionsradio.com (home page)

www.herbs4health.com (herb shop)

www.successlinks.com/global-3 (financial freedom)

www.16thamendment.com/global-3 (IRS income tax fraud)

www.taxstatement.com/global-3 (IRS income tax fraud)

Watch your thoughts; they become your words.

Watch your words; they become your actions.

Watch your actions; they become your habits.

Watch your habits; they become your character.

Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

Re: Re: zappers

> This explanation looks very appealing. Is there any research backiing it

up?

>

> " Dr. Eliezer Ben-ph " wrote:

>

> > It is not electricity that is hitting the neck, it is a pulsed magnetic

> > field that goes through the neck. When the magnetic pulse reaches the

coil

> > of wire that is when the electricity is produced. A static magnet will

not

> > produce this effect, it must be a pulsed magnetic field. Now when a

pulsed

> > magnetic field goes through the cells, because they have water with

minerals

> > in them, an electric current in the cell is generated. This is what

> > produces the healing. This microcurrent of electricity will burn the

> > receptor sites of pathogens so they can no longer stick to human tissue,

and

> > the body passes them out through the normal elimination channels. The

> > microcurrents do not effect healthy cells in any way adversely. In

essence

> > a magnetic pulcer charges the cells with electricity just like a battery

> > charger charges a battery.

> >

[Guest guest]

Don Croft is truly a pleasure to deal with. A very honorable and

ethical person and business person.

Sandy

> , Don's zapper is the only one I have ever used. I had been

> reading about zappers on these lists, and decided so many couldn't

be

> lying and Don offers a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee

and his

> is cheaper than others I had heard about so I figured what do I

have to

> lose so I got one. It worked so well for me and my son that I got

> another one. Then finally I got his 'orgone' model so we got 3. I

> would like to have his Terminator but the others are still working

so I

> can't justify the expense. Maybe others with more experience with

> zappers can add some information for you. A search on google with

key

> terms " zapper " " don croft " " parasites " will get his site for you.

> Best wishes pj

[Guest guest]

Don Croft is truly a pleasure to deal with. A very honorable and

ethical person and business person.

Sandy

> , Don's zapper is the only one I have ever used. I had been

> reading about zappers on these lists, and decided so many couldn't

be

> lying and Don offers a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee

and his

> is cheaper than others I had heard about so I figured what do I

have to

> lose so I got one. It worked so well for me and my son that I got

> another one. Then finally I got his 'orgone' model so we got 3. I

> would like to have his Terminator but the others are still working

so I

> can't justify the expense. Maybe others with more experience with

> zappers can add some information for you. A search on google with

key

> terms " zapper " " don croft " " parasites " will get his site for you.

> Best wishes pj

[Guest guest]

Don Croft is truly a pleasure to deal with. A very honorable and

ethical person and business person.

Sandy

> , Don's zapper is the only one I have ever used. I had been

> reading about zappers on these lists, and decided so many couldn't

be

> lying and Don offers a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee

and his

> is cheaper than others I had heard about so I figured what do I

have to

> lose so I got one. It worked so well for me and my son that I got

> another one. Then finally I got his 'orgone' model so we got 3. I

> would like to have his Terminator but the others are still working

so I

> can't justify the expense. Maybe others with more experience with

> zappers can add some information for you. A search on google with

key

> terms " zapper " " don croft " " parasites " will get his site for you.

> Best wishes pj

[Guest guest]

http://www.wave.net/upg/zapper/

At 06:47 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote:

>Can you give more specific information on how to find his site so I can buy

>his zapper?

>

>Joe

[Guest guest]

http://www.wave.net/upg/zapper/

At 06:47 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote:

>Can you give more specific information on how to find his site so I can buy

>his zapper?

>

>Joe

[Guest guest]

http://www.wave.net/upg/zapper/

At 06:47 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote:

>Can you give more specific information on how to find his site so I can buy

>his zapper?

>

>Joe

[Guest guest]

Erma & joe,

Don Croft and I communicated briefly a few years ago when I bought one

of his zappers. According to pics on the site Erma just gave, he is

still using copper contacts. He discounts all warnings that this is

wrongheaded because of all the reports he has had of his zappers helping

folks.

But, he is ignoring a VERY important issue, especially for people with

compromised immune systems! Some people with as little as 1 inch of

copper tubing in their water pipes have trouble with copper! And, when

using copper as electrodes on his zappers that are designed for direct

contact with the body, he is ignoring the fact of " ion migration. "

His copper contacts are so close together it is almost impossible to

cover them with something conductive and keep the contacts from

shorting. I use Tac-Gel, a conductive gel for rejuvenating " sticky-pad "

type CES electrodes. I have some if anyone wishes to write me privately,

in 2 tube sizes. I sell it for 1 cent less than I paid for it.

Unless Croft has altered the laws of physics, a zapper will

produce ion migration. Migration is simply that the electrical current

carries atoms of whatever metal it passes through, in the direction of

the current flow. For this reason, TENS, CES & Beck zappers use what is

called " bi-phasic DC current, " which reverses the polarity every pulse

to eliminate both ion migration and electrolysis. Ms. 's specs are

clear in wrapping the copper tubes she uses with a saline-dipped paper

towel to avoid this.

IMO, Anyone using Croft's zappers needs to understand these things.

jim

Erma Seabaugh wrote:

>

> http://www.wave.net/upg/zapper/

>

> At 06:47 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote:

> >Can you give more specific information on how to find his site so I can buy

> >his zapper?

> >

> >Joe

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Erma & joe,

Don Croft and I communicated briefly a few years ago when I bought one

of his zappers. According to pics on the site Erma just gave, he is

still using copper contacts. He discounts all warnings that this is

wrongheaded because of all the reports he has had of his zappers helping

folks.

But, he is ignoring a VERY important issue, especially for people with

compromised immune systems! Some people with as little as 1 inch of

copper tubing in their water pipes have trouble with copper! And, when

using copper as electrodes on his zappers that are designed for direct

contact with the body, he is ignoring the fact of " ion migration. "

His copper contacts are so close together it is almost impossible to

cover them with something conductive and keep the contacts from

shorting. I use Tac-Gel, a conductive gel for rejuvenating " sticky-pad "

type CES electrodes. I have some if anyone wishes to write me privately,

in 2 tube sizes. I sell it for 1 cent less than I paid for it.

Unless Croft has altered the laws of physics, a zapper will

produce ion migration. Migration is simply that the electrical current

carries atoms of whatever metal it passes through, in the direction of

the current flow. For this reason, TENS, CES & Beck zappers use what is

called " bi-phasic DC current, " which reverses the polarity every pulse

to eliminate both ion migration and electrolysis. Ms. 's specs are

clear in wrapping the copper tubes she uses with a saline-dipped paper

towel to avoid this.

IMO, Anyone using Croft's zappers needs to understand these things.

jim

Erma Seabaugh wrote:

>

> http://www.wave.net/upg/zapper/

>

> At 06:47 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote:

> >Can you give more specific information on how to find his site so I can buy

> >his zapper?

> >

> >Joe

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other

alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk.

Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take

responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the

message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: zappers

> Don Croft...is still using copper contacts. He discounts all warnings that

this is

> wrongheaded because of all the reports he has had of his zappers helping

folks.

>

> But, he is ignoring a VERY important issue, especially for people with

> compromised immune systems! Some people with as little as 1 inch of

> copper tubing in their water pipes have trouble with copper! And, when

> using copper as electrodes on his zappers that are designed for direct

> contact with the body, he is ignoring the fact of " ion migration. "

>

> His copper contacts are so close together it is almost impossible to

> cover them with something conductive and keep the contacts from

> shorting....Unless Croft has altered the laws of physics, a zapper

will

> produce ion migration. Migration is simply that the electrical current

> carries atoms of whatever metal it passes through, in the direction of

> the current flow. For this reason, TENS, CES & Beck zappers use what is

> called " bi-phasic DC current, " which reverses the polarity every pulse

> to eliminate both ion migration and electrolysis. Ms. 's specs are

> clear in wrapping the copper tubes she uses with a saline-dipped paper

> towel to avoid this.

Jim and everyone,

I sent Jim's comment to Don--WITHOUT mentioning who wrote it--and asked Don

to respond. This is his reply:

**********

I'm not ignoring ion migration at all.

Also, I don't deny it takes place, even though the folks who say it's a

problem don't seem to have evidence of it. I do know that copper is a trace

element that is seriously lacking in the diet of North Americans due to the

depletion copper in the soil, and if any copper does 'migrate' through the

skin it would have to be in a colloidal form.

I don't mind saying, now that I've been sort of 'challenged' this way, that

I can't see any scientific basis for the protocols promoted by

electromedicine aficionados. Any more, it's hard to keep my eyes open when

I get questions from prospective customers about reversing polarity,

electrophoresis, 7/20 minute zapping, copper electrodes, no

garlic-meds-herbs, ad nauseum.

Professional obfuscators must feel like the wind's been taken out of their

sails when they read the assertions by zapper makers, since these dogmatic

assertions do more to discourage the average person from trying

electromedicine than Quackwatch. I heard Art Bell say that he won't use the

one Wayne Green gave him because of all these fabricated restrictions. If

Art had used that one, all of us (zapper makers) would have been continually

backordered since that day.

Furthermore, I consider it my personal mission to continue to demonstrate

that these protocols are not necessary and that the principles and theories

behind electromedicine are not only easily grasped but that zapping itself

is totally harmless if done with an ounce of discretion.

Please, PLEASE show me any scientific evidence that justifies any of the

protocols and I'll change my tune. After five years of issuing this

challenge personally and getting no response, perhaps one of you will favor

me with this information.

Also, perhaps one of you has an explanation for the fact that when people

follow my simple guidelines, even with my competitors' units, they get

better results. If touching an electric fence gets the same results, how do

you justify all of the bells and whistles, caveats, cautions and

restrictions? Thankfully, I have never been mentally conditioned to

consider the theories that seem to be such a barrier to you. I bet all of

your professors told you that nobody really understands electricity before

you even opened your books.

It pleases me to have this opportunity to advance at last toward the serried

lines of archair researchers. May we make an effort to deal with what is

rather than what might be?

*********

[Guest guest]

Re: zappers

> Don Croft...is still using copper contacts. He discounts all warnings that

this is

> wrongheaded because of all the reports he has had of his zappers helping

folks.

>

> But, he is ignoring a VERY important issue, especially for people with

> compromised immune systems! Some people with as little as 1 inch of

> copper tubing in their water pipes have trouble with copper! And, when

> using copper as electrodes on his zappers that are designed for direct

> contact with the body, he is ignoring the fact of " ion migration. "

>

> His copper contacts are so close together it is almost impossible to

> cover them with something conductive and keep the contacts from

> shorting....Unless Croft has altered the laws of physics, a zapper

will

> produce ion migration. Migration is simply that the electrical current

> carries atoms of whatever metal it passes through, in the direction of

> the current flow. For this reason, TENS, CES & Beck zappers use what is

> called " bi-phasic DC current, " which reverses the polarity every pulse

> to eliminate both ion migration and electrolysis. Ms. 's specs are

> clear in wrapping the copper tubes she uses with a saline-dipped paper

> towel to avoid this.

Jim and everyone,

I sent Jim's comment to Don--WITHOUT mentioning who wrote it--and asked Don

to respond. This is his reply:

**********

I'm not ignoring ion migration at all.

Also, I don't deny it takes place, even though the folks who say it's a

problem don't seem to have evidence of it. I do know that copper is a trace

element that is seriously lacking in the diet of North Americans due to the

depletion copper in the soil, and if any copper does 'migrate' through the

skin it would have to be in a colloidal form.

I don't mind saying, now that I've been sort of 'challenged' this way, that

I can't see any scientific basis for the protocols promoted by

electromedicine aficionados. Any more, it's hard to keep my eyes open when

I get questions from prospective customers about reversing polarity,

electrophoresis, 7/20 minute zapping, copper electrodes, no

garlic-meds-herbs, ad nauseum.

Professional obfuscators must feel like the wind's been taken out of their

sails when they read the assertions by zapper makers, since these dogmatic

assertions do more to discourage the average person from trying

electromedicine than Quackwatch. I heard Art Bell say that he won't use the

one Wayne Green gave him because of all these fabricated restrictions. If

Art had used that one, all of us (zapper makers) would have been continually

backordered since that day.

Furthermore, I consider it my personal mission to continue to demonstrate

that these protocols are not necessary and that the principles and theories

behind electromedicine are not only easily grasped but that zapping itself

is totally harmless if done with an ounce of discretion.

Please, PLEASE show me any scientific evidence that justifies any of the

protocols and I'll change my tune. After five years of issuing this

challenge personally and getting no response, perhaps one of you will favor

me with this information.

Also, perhaps one of you has an explanation for the fact that when people

follow my simple guidelines, even with my competitors' units, they get

better results. If touching an electric fence gets the same results, how do

you justify all of the bells and whistles, caveats, cautions and

restrictions? Thankfully, I have never been mentally conditioned to

consider the theories that seem to be such a barrier to you. I bet all of

your professors told you that nobody really understands electricity before

you even opened your books.

It pleases me to have this opportunity to advance at last toward the serried

lines of archair researchers. May we make an effort to deal with what is

rather than what might be?

*********

[Guest guest]

I read Don Croft's site about zappers. Although they may work (?), I feel that

he is a bit on the fanatical side of things himself. He is making numerous

claims of a rather substantial nature but without referring to any clinical

research at all. If his zappers really are effective it should be easy to show

this in some controlled experiments.

Erma Seabaugh wrote:

> http://www.wave.net/upg/zapper/

[Guest guest]

I read Don Croft's site about zappers. Although they may work (?), I feel that

he is a bit on the fanatical side of things himself. He is making numerous

claims of a rather substantial nature but without referring to any clinical

research at all. If his zappers really are effective it should be easy to show

this in some controlled experiments.

Erma Seabaugh wrote:

> http://www.wave.net/upg/zapper/

[Guest guest]

" Nina Silver, Ph.D. " wrote:

> Jim and everyone,

> I sent Jim's comment to Don--WITHOUT mentioning who wrote it--and asked Don

> to respond. This is his reply:

>

> **********

> I'm not ignoring ion migration at all.

>

> Also, I don't deny it takes place, even though the folks who say it's a

> problem don't seem to have evidence of it.

It's physics. It happens.

>I do know that copper is a trace

> element that is seriously lacking in the diet of North Americans due to the

> depletion copper in the soil, and if any copper does 'migrate' through the

> skin it would have to be in a colloidal form.

Nowhere does Don Croft explain his scientific credentials for making

assertions like these. He can't " know " that migrating ions will be in a

colloidal form identical to bioavailable copper, nor that they won't act

as a toxic metal, as copper can & does, even to people with copper

deficiencies.

>

> I don't mind saying, now that I've been sort of 'challenged' this way, that

> I can't see any scientific basis for the protocols promoted by

> electromedicine aficionados. Any more, it's hard to keep my eyes open when

> I get questions from prospective customers about reversing polarity,

> electrophoresis, 7/20 minute zapping, copper electrodes, no

> garlic-meds-herbs, ad nauseum.

He already admitted ion transfer is real & does happen!!! Just as

electrophoresis is a real phenomenon. It does not, in my experience

happen every time a zapper is used. It has happened to me about one in

ten times I zapped. And, when it happens, things like garlic meds are

significant! When I discussed this with Don a few years ago he asserted

he knew the electrodes would be safer if they were silver, and that his

new model would have them.

>

> Professional obfuscators must feel like the wind's been taken out of their

> sails when they read the assertions by zapper makers, since these dogmatic

> assertions do more to discourage the average person from trying

> electromedicine than Quackwatch.

I can hardly be classified as professional obfuscator on this issue, and

I have been a proponent of zappers & many other electronic body devices.

It was in the several years I researched CES devices that I found out

about ion transfer. I talked with some designer/builders of CES, and

with Dr. Saul Liss, a prominent designer & researcher in body

stimulators. None of these people can be classfied as wanting to

discourage the use of electronics on humans for health, or that they

must require a doctor's scrip. What we are, is careful about dangerous

potentials. Something Don Croft cannot claim. All he offers as proof of

his assertions is more assertions and personality attacks. I have never

stated that zappers were in any way dangerous. Only Don Croft's designs,

and that is because of a design flaw he insists on maintaining.

>I heard Art Bell say that he won't use the

> one Wayne Green gave him because of all these fabricated restrictions. If

> Art had used that one, all of us (zapper makers) would have been continually

> backordered since that day.

This is, IMO, a major portion of Don Croft's motive for disagreeing with

ALL electro-medical professionals in the world. If he manufactured his

products so that the electrodes were capable of being protected, this

would be a moot issue. But, as he explained to me, his design is " more

convenient " because it can be tucked in a sock or put under one's belt!

Convenience over safety is, IMO, counter-productive to the search for

health. Many of us do things that make our MD's cringe, or go ballistic.

But, as a reading of this list's archives will attest, most are looking

for SAFE alternatives.

>

> Furthermore, I consider it my personal mission to continue to demonstrate

> that these protocols are not necessary and that the principles and theories

> behind electromedicine are not only easily grasped but that zapping itself

> is totally harmless if done with an ounce of discretion.

I submit that Don Croft is not going to demonstrate this. The people

using his devices will. But, we obviously disagree with the ultimate

outcome.

> Please, PLEASE show me any scientific evidence that justifies any of the

> protocols and I'll change my tune. After five years of issuing this

> challenge personally and getting no response, perhaps one of you will favor

> me with this information.

>

> Also, perhaps one of you has an explanation for the fact that when people

> follow my simple guidelines, even with my competitors' units, they get

> better results. If touching an electric fence gets the same results, how do

> you justify all of the bells and whistles, caveats, cautions and

> restrictions?

Touching an electric fence is momentary, and while it may leave a

residue, skin resistance will prevent most of it from being absorbed.

Using a zapper, especially when leaving it on for hours, as Croft

advised me, is the long-term condition necessary for effective ion

transfer.

>Thankfully, I have never been mentally conditioned to

> consider the theories that seem to be such a barrier to you. I bet all of

> your professors told you that nobody really understands electricity before

> you even opened your books.

This, I believe, is the crux of Croft's determined myopia. He equates

simple physics with theories!

Quite frankly, if people want to ignore good sense for something cheaper

or easier & use Croft's zapper instead of a better design, it's fine

with me. As long as they are making an informed decision. But, as long

as Croft chooses not to explain the issue to potential customers --

before purchase -- they cannot be informed. If we don't like this

attitude from our MD's and HMO's, then why is it acceptable from a

device manufacturer?

So, mention of his website or products will elicit a warning from me to

those who may be purchasing a zapper & reading this list, and who are

mentally conditioned to consider the laws of physics and reasonably

proven science, and value safety.

jim

-----

The TRUTH in 11 words:

Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what happened!

-- anon

jlambert@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience

http://www.entrance.to/poetry

[Guest guest]

" Nina Silver, Ph.D. " wrote:

> Jim and everyone,

> I sent Jim's comment to Don--WITHOUT mentioning who wrote it--and asked Don

> to respond. This is his reply:

>

> **********

> I'm not ignoring ion migration at all.

>

> Also, I don't deny it takes place, even though the folks who say it's a

> problem don't seem to have evidence of it.

It's physics. It happens.

>I do know that copper is a trace

> element that is seriously lacking in the diet of North Americans due to the

> depletion copper in the soil, and if any copper does 'migrate' through the

> skin it would have to be in a colloidal form.

Nowhere does Don Croft explain his scientific credentials for making

assertions like these. He can't " know " that migrating ions will be in a

colloidal form identical to bioavailable copper, nor that they won't act

as a toxic metal, as copper can & does, even to people with copper

deficiencies.

>

> I don't mind saying, now that I've been sort of 'challenged' this way, that

> I can't see any scientific basis for the protocols promoted by

> electromedicine aficionados. Any more, it's hard to keep my eyes open when

> I get questions from prospective customers about reversing polarity,

> electrophoresis, 7/20 minute zapping, copper electrodes, no

> garlic-meds-herbs, ad nauseum.

He already admitted ion transfer is real & does happen!!! Just as

electrophoresis is a real phenomenon. It does not, in my experience

happen every time a zapper is used. It has happened to me about one in

ten times I zapped. And, when it happens, things like garlic meds are

significant! When I discussed this with Don a few years ago he asserted

he knew the electrodes would be safer if they were silver, and that his

new model would have them.

>

> Professional obfuscators must feel like the wind's been taken out of their

> sails when they read the assertions by zapper makers, since these dogmatic

> assertions do more to discourage the average person from trying

> electromedicine than Quackwatch.

I can hardly be classified as professional obfuscator on this issue, and

I have been a proponent of zappers & many other electronic body devices.

It was in the several years I researched CES devices that I found out

about ion transfer. I talked with some designer/builders of CES, and

with Dr. Saul Liss, a prominent designer & researcher in body

stimulators. None of these people can be classfied as wanting to

discourage the use of electronics on humans for health, or that they

must require a doctor's scrip. What we are, is careful about dangerous

potentials. Something Don Croft cannot claim. All he offers as proof of

his assertions is more assertions and personality attacks. I have never

stated that zappers were in any way dangerous. Only Don Croft's designs,

and that is because of a design flaw he insists on maintaining.

>I heard Art Bell say that he won't use the

> one Wayne Green gave him because of all these fabricated restrictions. If

> Art had used that one, all of us (zapper makers) would have been continually

> backordered since that day.

This is, IMO, a major portion of Don Croft's motive for disagreeing with

ALL electro-medical professionals in the world. If he manufactured his

products so that the electrodes were capable of being protected, this

would be a moot issue. But, as he explained to me, his design is " more

convenient " because it can be tucked in a sock or put under one's belt!

Convenience over safety is, IMO, counter-productive to the search for

health. Many of us do things that make our MD's cringe, or go ballistic.

But, as a reading of this list's archives will attest, most are looking

for SAFE alternatives.

>

> Furthermore, I consider it my personal mission to continue to demonstrate

> that these protocols are not necessary and that the principles and theories

> behind electromedicine are not only easily grasped but that zapping itself

> is totally harmless if done with an ounce of discretion.

I submit that Don Croft is not going to demonstrate this. The people

using his devices will. But, we obviously disagree with the ultimate

outcome.

> Please, PLEASE show me any scientific evidence that justifies any of the

> protocols and I'll change my tune. After five years of issuing this

> challenge personally and getting no response, perhaps one of you will favor

> me with this information.

>

> Also, perhaps one of you has an explanation for the fact that when people

> follow my simple guidelines, even with my competitors' units, they get

> better results. If touching an electric fence gets the same results, how do

> you justify all of the bells and whistles, caveats, cautions and

> restrictions?

Touching an electric fence is momentary, and while it may leave a

residue, skin resistance will prevent most of it from being absorbed.

Using a zapper, especially when leaving it on for hours, as Croft

advised me, is the long-term condition necessary for effective ion

transfer.

>Thankfully, I have never been mentally conditioned to

> consider the theories that seem to be such a barrier to you. I bet all of

> your professors told you that nobody really understands electricity before

> you even opened your books.

This, I believe, is the crux of Croft's determined myopia. He equates

simple physics with theories!

Quite frankly, if people want to ignore good sense for something cheaper

or easier & use Croft's zapper instead of a better design, it's fine

with me. As long as they are making an informed decision. But, as long

as Croft chooses not to explain the issue to potential customers --

before purchase -- they cannot be informed. If we don't like this

attitude from our MD's and HMO's, then why is it acceptable from a

device manufacturer?

So, mention of his website or products will elicit a warning from me to

those who may be purchasing a zapper & reading this list, and who are

mentally conditioned to consider the laws of physics and reasonably

proven science, and value safety.

jim

-----

The TRUTH in 11 words:

Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what happened!

-- anon

jlambert@... http://www.entrance.to/madscience

http://www.entrance.to/poetry