Re: the black death

[Guest guest]

Perhaps there is some confusion over Black bubonic plague and Black pox

(small pox). I learned that the word " black " is used to mean very severe or

fatal.

http://www.allcensus.com/sick.html

Black plague or death - Bubonic plague

Black pox - Black Small pox

Kathleen

Vaccine info at http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html <A

HREF= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >VaccineWebsite.com</A>

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm <A

HREF= " http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm " >Vaccination Information & Choice

Network - Vaccine/Vaccination/Immunization Dangers</A>

www.vaccinationnews.com <A HREF= " http://www.vaccinationnews.com/ " >New Page 1</A>

The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the

disease. ~ Voltaire, French Philosopher (1694-1778)

In a message dated 2/5/2002 7:22:19 PM Central Standard Time,

saragubits@... writes:

> > Never heard of that.

> > I think you are thinking of smallpox vax and Jenner's son " ?

> i THINK so.. didn't you hear about the great epidemic of 1100 which

> killed about 90% if I am correct... the people had black pox covered

> all their body and most died, but the ones who had cow pox didn't get

> that infection, so someone invented vaccine from the cows to protect

> himself from it..

> does anyone know about it?

> what about that vaccine the drs give the babies?

>

[Guest guest]

where did you read that?

claudia

--- saragubits <saragubits@...> wrote:

> what about the story of the black death epidemic

> that infested europe

> in 1100 - 1200 and few hundred years later a person

> invented a

> vaccine against it, exprimented it on his own

> daughter and himself -

> took blood sample from a sick cow and used it on

> himself on his

> daughter, then exposed himself to the real disease

> and they both were

> vaccinated...

> what about that?

>

>

=====

" The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the

spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that

spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives

people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the

presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the

range of the debate. "

- Noam Chomsky

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

At 11:22 PM 02/05/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>what about the story of the black death epidemic that infested europe

>in 1100 - 1200 and few hundred years later a person invented a

>vaccine against it, exprimented it on his own daughter and himself -

>took blood sample from a sick cow and used it on himself on his

>daughter, then exposed himself to the real disease and they both were

>vaccinated...

>what about that?

>

Never heard of that.

I think you are thinking of smallpox vax and Jenner's son " ?

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@...

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

PO Box 1563 Nevada City CA 95959 530-740-0561 Voicemail in US

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

> Never heard of that.

> I think you are thinking of smallpox vax and Jenner's son " ?

i THINK so.. didn't you hear about the great epidemic of 1100 which

killed about 90% if I am correct... the people had black pox covered

all their body and most died, but the ones who had cow pox didn't get

that infection, so someone invented vaccine from the cows to protect

himself from it..

does anyone know about it?

what about that vaccine the drs give the babies?

[Guest guest]

saragubits <saragubits@...> wrote: This is new one to me. Always

thought it originated with Jenner. Wonder if there is any info to back up the

black plague story?

Joanna

> Never heard of that.

> I think you are thinking of smallpox vax and Jenner's son " ?

i THINK so.. didn't you hear about the great epidemic of 1100 which

killed about 90% if I am correct... the people had black pox covered

all their body and most died, but the ones who had cow pox didn't get

that infection, so someone invented vaccine from the cows to protect

himself from it..

does anyone know about it?

what about that vaccine the drs give the babies?

[Guest guest]

At 01:20 AM 02/06/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>

>> Never heard of that.

>> I think you are thinking of smallpox vax and Jenner's son " ?

>i THINK so.. didn't you hear about the great epidemic of 1100 which

>killed about 90% if I am correct... the people had black pox covered

>all their body and most died, but the ones who had cow pox didn't get

>that infection, so someone invented vaccine from the cows to protect

>himself from it..

>does anyone know about it?

>what about that vaccine the drs give the babies?

I think you are confusing things here - the black plague wasn't pox

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

vaccineinfo@...

(go to http://www.paypal.com) or by mail

PO Box 1563 Nevada City CA 95959 530-740-0561 Voicemail in US

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE.

Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin

International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers

Education, Homeopathic Education

CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, ! :-)

Inger

The Black Death

I just watched a program on the Black Death of the 14th Century. It was very interesting.

The plague began when it arose in Western Africa as a human disease and then followed trade routes up into Europe. At first it was spread by fleas jumping between rats and humans. Rats were the primary carrier, but as they died, the fleas would move to humans and other animals. Later, it became the Pneumonic Plague which allowed it to be spread human to human through the air.

As it spread across Europe, it could have killed as much as 50% of the European population. Most of these were urbanites. Some 60% of Venice died, and 50% in other cities was not uncommon. Many wealthy fled to rural manners and kept everyone away. Isolated farms and villages did the same. Those groups had a higher rate of survival than urban areas.

The program theorized that the high death rates laid the groundwork for the Rennaisance and Industrial revolution. Because the labor force was so depleted, that labor saving machines and devices came to be, especially in formerly labor intensive industries. Weaving for example had been labor intensive but there was no incentive for change because there was a steady flow of poor people into the cities from the farms and villages. Once that flow stopped, watermills began to appear. Because so many monks and copyists had died, the printing press was developed to take up the slack.

The Black Death also made people turn to observation and science. Traditional medicine based on ancient Greek philosophy had proven powerless before the plague. So some began to trust their own observations and experiments instead when trying to treat and cure the disease. This laid the groundwork for modern science and medicine.

At the same time, some people came to question the Catholic Church. Many nobles hired private chaplins more in line with their views. The plague also healped break the Church's stranglehold on the sciences.

At the end were some comparisons for today. The plague took years to spread from Italy to Russia. By the time the plague reached Russia from France, 2 years had passed and only then was the plague receeding in France. Today, a plague could be around the world in days, perhaps before it was even noticed. Some 500,000,000 people cross international borders each year and some 70,000,000 people work at least part of the year in other countries.

Even though we have antibiotics and such these days, it is believed that any major plague would quickly overwhelm the medical services. This is because there is no redundancy in the system. The health care system has just about enough capacity to handle standard demand and maybe slightly more. Anything major would quickly cause it to break down. Personally, I see this as a greater concern for socialized healthcare system like in Canada and Europe. Already those systems ration health care and have long waits for treatment as it is. The few doctors will be swiftly overwhelmed. The US has its own problems, what with lawyers suing doctors and ER's out of business, so we'll have a different set of problems.

Anyway, the program stated that the years of the plague were chaotic and society in many places did break down. However, very quickly after the plague subsided, people quickly reorganized themselves and re-created society. Some nobles grit their teeth and did field work themselves along with the others. Others chose to turn bandit and stole what they wanted. Out of work men-at-arms and others also took to banditry while others went civilian. Much the same thing could happen today, but much would depend on how badly the transportation system was disrupted and how well armed the honest folks are and are able to hold off the bad guys.

For the most part, our society is little more prepared than medieval society was. There is so much movement of people around the world and so much expansion into wild lands, diseases could arise and be spread around the world in no time. We don't have a system, like huge food supplies stored in major cities and also regionally so that long-range travel could be stopped and cities and regions draw from their stockpiles until the emergency had passed. If the ancient Egyptians could mass 7 years of grain in storage, so could the US and Western Europe. It is something we should do. We should also be prepare to close travel routes or even dynamite bridges to stop travel out of or into quaraunteened areas except by military or other official traffic. I don't really see this happening though.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, ! :-)

Inger

The Black Death

I just watched a program on the Black Death of the 14th Century. It was very interesting.

The plague began when it arose in Western Africa as a human disease and then followed trade routes up into Europe. At first it was spread by fleas jumping between rats and humans. Rats were the primary carrier, but as they died, the fleas would move to humans and other animals. Later, it became the Pneumonic Plague which allowed it to be spread human to human through the air.

As it spread across Europe, it could have killed as much as 50% of the European population. Most of these were urbanites. Some 60% of Venice died, and 50% in other cities was not uncommon. Many wealthy fled to rural manners and kept everyone away. Isolated farms and villages did the same. Those groups had a higher rate of survival than urban areas.

The program theorized that the high death rates laid the groundwork for the Rennaisance and Industrial revolution. Because the labor force was so depleted, that labor saving machines and devices came to be, especially in formerly labor intensive industries. Weaving for example had been labor intensive but there was no incentive for change because there was a steady flow of poor people into the cities from the farms and villages. Once that flow stopped, watermills began to appear. Because so many monks and copyists had died, the printing press was developed to take up the slack.

The Black Death also made people turn to observation and science. Traditional medicine based on ancient Greek philosophy had proven powerless before the plague. So some began to trust their own observations and experiments instead when trying to treat and cure the disease. This laid the groundwork for modern science and medicine.

At the same time, some people came to question the Catholic Church. Many nobles hired private chaplins more in line with their views. The plague also healped break the Church's stranglehold on the sciences.

At the end were some comparisons for today. The plague took years to spread from Italy to Russia. By the time the plague reached Russia from France, 2 years had passed and only then was the plague receeding in France. Today, a plague could be around the world in days, perhaps before it was even noticed. Some 500,000,000 people cross international borders each year and some 70,000,000 people work at least part of the year in other countries.

Even though we have antibiotics and such these days, it is believed that any major plague would quickly overwhelm the medical services. This is because there is no redundancy in the system. The health care system has just about enough capacity to handle standard demand and maybe slightly more. Anything major would quickly cause it to break down. Personally, I see this as a greater concern for socialized healthcare system like in Canada and Europe. Already those systems ration health care and have long waits for treatment as it is. The few doctors will be swiftly overwhelmed. The US has its own problems, what with lawyers suing doctors and ER's out of business, so we'll have a different set of problems.

Anyway, the program stated that the years of the plague were chaotic and society in many places did break down. However, very quickly after the plague subsided, people quickly reorganized themselves and re-created society. Some nobles grit their teeth and did field work themselves along with the others. Others chose to turn bandit and stole what they wanted. Out of work men-at-arms and others also took to banditry while others went civilian. Much the same thing could happen today, but much would depend on how badly the transportation system was disrupted and how well armed the honest folks are and are able to hold off the bad guys.

For the most part, our society is little more prepared than medieval society was. There is so much movement of people around the world and so much expansion into wild lands, diseases could arise and be spread around the world in no time. We don't have a system, like huge food supplies stored in major cities and also regionally so that long-range travel could be stopped and cities and regions draw from their stockpiles until the emergency had passed. If the ancient Egyptians could mass 7 years of grain in storage, so could the US and Western Europe. It is something we should do. We should also be prepare to close travel routes or even dynamite bridges to stop travel out of or into quaraunteened areas except by military or other official traffic. I don't really see this happening though.