Guest guest Posted April 4, 2002 Report Share Posted April 4, 2002 What about Dr. Klenner's work with vitamin C? That 200 grams definitely sounds more in line with what he did. <A HREF= " http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/index.htm " >Ascorbate Historical Reference Page</A> http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/index.htm <A HREF= " http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/klenner-fr-j_appl_nutr-1971-v2\ 3-n3 & 4-p61.htm " >www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/klenner-fr-j_appl_nutr-1971\ -v23-n3 & 4-p61.htm</A> Kathleen In a message dated 4/4/2002 3:07:09 PM Central Standard Time, memechose@... writes: > Try 650-949-2822 > F. Cathcart, M.D. he is a Dr. in California (USA) who has vast > experience with Vitamin C. Maybe he could help, even talk to the Dr's too > since he is one himself. > Prayers are with you > > BC Canada > > At 12:28 PM 4/4/02 -0800, you wrote: > >oh meryl {{{}}}, i'm so sorry! > >i can't find anything on google, but i'll keep > >looking! meantime sending reiki and hope he gets > >better. > >claudia > > > >--- meryl@... wrote: > > > I don;t have time to go into a full explanation. I > > > am at the hospital with > > > my father. He may die very soon and we need to start > > > him on IV vitamin C but > > > they are fighting me on the dose. They want to give > > > him 14 g over 24 hours > > > and I want up to 200 g. I need anyone who can help > > > me get info on > > > endocarditis and megadoses of vitamin c to send it > > > to me ASAP. I also need > > > information on exactly how dosages are caclulated > > > for sepsis. If you believe > > > in prayer, please pray for him and please, if you > > > have this information, get > > > it to me quick. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Meryl > > > > > > Meryl W. Dorey, > > > > > > President > > > > > > The Australian Vaccination Network, Inc. > > > > > > PO Box 177 02 6687 > > > 1699 Phone > > > > > > Bangalow NSW 2479 02 6687 2032 FAX > > > > > > meryl@... > > > http://www.avn.org.au > > > > > > " All truth goes through three stages. First it is > > > ridiculed. Then it is > > > violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as > > > self-evident. " (Schopenhauer) > > > > > > > Kathleen Vaccine info at http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html <A HREF= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >VaccineWebsite.com</A> http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm <A HREF= " http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm " >Vaccination Information & Choice Network - Vaccine/Vaccination/Immunization Dangers</A> www.vaccinationnews.com <A HREF= " http://www.vaccinationnews.com/ " >New Page 1</A> " May as well consult a butcher on the value of vegetarianism as a doctor on the worth of vaccination. " ~ Bernard Shaw A group created just for us OTers. OT4VAX-subscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2002 Report Share Posted April 4, 2002 oh meryl {{{}}}, i'm so sorry! i can't find anything on google, but i'll keep looking! meantime sending reiki and hope he gets better. claudia --- meryl@... wrote: > I don;t have time to go into a full explanation. I > am at the hospital with > my father. He may die very soon and we need to start > him on IV vitamin C but > they are fighting me on the dose. They want to give > him 14 g over 24 hours > and I want up to 200 g. I need anyone who can help > me get info on > endocarditis and megadoses of vitamin c to send it > to me ASAP. I also need > information on exactly how dosages are caclulated > for sepsis. If you believe > in prayer, please pray for him and please, if you > have this information, get > it to me quick. > > Thank you, > Meryl > > Meryl W. Dorey, > > President > > The Australian Vaccination Network, Inc. > > PO Box 177 02 6687 > 1699 Phone > > Bangalow NSW 2479 02 6687 2032 FAX > > meryl@... > http://www.avn.org.au > > " All truth goes through three stages. First it is > ridiculed. Then it is > violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as > self-evident. " (Schopenhauer) > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > > Any information obtained here is not to be construed > as medical OR legal > advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you > implement that decision is > yours and yours alone. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2002 Report Share Posted April 4, 2002 Try 650-949-2822 F. Cathcart, M.D. he is a Dr. in California (USA) who has vast experience with Vitamin C. Maybe he could help, even talk to the Dr's too since he is one himself. Prayers are with you BC Canada At 12:28 PM 4/4/02 -0800, you wrote: >oh meryl {{{}}}, i'm so sorry! >i can't find anything on google, but i'll keep >looking! meantime sending reiki and hope he gets >better. >claudia > >--- meryl@... wrote: > > I don;t have time to go into a full explanation. I > > am at the hospital with > > my father. He may die very soon and we need to start > > him on IV vitamin C but > > they are fighting me on the dose. They want to give > > him 14 g over 24 hours > > and I want up to 200 g. I need anyone who can help > > me get info on > > endocarditis and megadoses of vitamin c to send it > > to me ASAP. I also need > > information on exactly how dosages are caclulated > > for sepsis. If you believe > > in prayer, please pray for him and please, if you > > have this information, get > > it to me quick. > > > > Thank you, > > Meryl > > > > Meryl W. Dorey, > > > > President > > > > The Australian Vaccination Network, Inc. > > > > PO Box 177 02 6687 > > 1699 Phone > > > > Bangalow NSW 2479 02 6687 2032 FAX > > > > meryl@... > > http://www.avn.org.au > > > > " All truth goes through three stages. First it is > > ridiculed. Then it is > > violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as > > self-evident. " (Schopenhauer) > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________ > > ______ > > > > Any information obtained here is not to be construed > > as medical OR legal > > advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you > > implement that decision is > > yours and yours alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2002 Report Share Posted April 4, 2002 > >If you believe in prayer, please pray for him and please, if you have this information, get it to me quick. Thank you, Meryl Meryl W. Dorey, President The Australian Vaccination Network, Inc. PO Box 177 02 6687 1699 Phone Bangalow NSW 2479 02 6687 2032 FAX meryl@a... http://www.avn.org.au " All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. " (Schopenhauer)> > Meryl, I hope the information you received was useful. I do believe in prayer, and will be praying for your father and you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2002 Report Share Posted April 4, 2002 Dear Meryl, I'm so sorry about your dad and sorry this has taken so long to find. It may not be of any use because it is not specifically about endocarditis, however it does show studies etc of massive uses of Vit C, even in children. Hope it is of some use. God Bless you and your Dad Journal of Applied Nutrition Vol. 23, No's 3 & 4, Winter 1971Observations On the Dose and Administration of Ascorbic Acid When Employed Beyond the Range Of A Vitamin In Human PathologyFrederick R. Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P. Case History #1: Acute Virus qancarditis A five year old boy was admitted to the local hospital with history of having a " relapse " after recovery from measles. The physical findings showed a thready and feeble pulse. A distinct rub was in evidence by auscultation. The EKG showed RS-T deviations. The temperature was 105°F.. Ascorbic acid calculated at 400 mg per Kg body weight was given intravenously with a syringe. Within two hours the picture had almost reverted to normal. Injection of Vitamin C was repeated in 6 hours and again at 12 hours. A fourth injection was given after 24 hours although the patient was clinically well. The child returned home on the 4th hospital day. Case History #2: Acute Virus Pancarditis following a deep cold The findings approximated those of case #1. The parents elected to take the child to Duke Medical Center. Six grams of ascorbic acid was given by needle before starting the trip to the hospital which was 60 miles away. Upon arrival at the Medical Center the child had made such dramatic response to the single injection of ascorbic acid that the parents were tempted to return home. The receiving physician questioned the sickness of the child as being out of proportion to that relayed by me during our telephone conversation. The parents assured the physician that the child had been seriously ill, but that the change came about after receiving the ascorbic acid. Although 50 grams (25 ampoules) of ascorbic acid was sent along with the parents, none was given because the physician in charge stated that he would be afraid to give that size dose, intravenously, to a child. The fact that we had administered six grams, which represented a dose of 400 mg per Kg body weight, apparently had no influence. Laboratory findings, however, confirmed our impression and the child was hospitalized for two weeks. Two additional injections of vitamin C would have cured the child in 24 hours. Frederick R. Klenner, M.D., F.C.C.P. Reidsville, North Carolina A native of Pennsylvania, Dr. Klenner attended St. and St. Francis College, where he received his B.S. and M.S. degrees in biology. He graduated magna cum laude and was awarded a teaching fellowship there. He was also awarded the college medal for scholastic philosophy. There followed another teaching fellowship in chemistry at Catholic University, Where he pursued studies for a doctorate in physiology. Dr. Klenner then 'migrated' to North Carolina and Duke University to continue his studies. He arrived in time to use his knowledge in physiology and chemistry to free the nervous system of the frog for a symposium by immersing the animal in 10% nitric acid. Taken in tow by Dr. Pearse, chairman of the department, he was finally persuaded to enter the school of medicine. He completed his studies at Duke University and received his medical degree in 1936. Dr. Klenner served three years in post graduate hospital training before embarking on a private practice in medicine. Although specializing in diseases of the chest, he continued to do general practice because of the opportunities it afforded for observations in medicine. His patients were as enthusiastic as he in playing guinea pigs to study the action of ascorbic acid. The first massive doses of ascorbic acid he gave to himself. Each time something new appeared on the horizon he took the same amount of ascorbic acid to study its effects so as to come up with the answers. Dr. Klenner's list of honors and professional society affiliations is tremendous. He is listed in a flock of various " Who's Who " registers. He has published many scientific papers throughout his scientific career. I am in full agreement with Lancelot Hogben who said, " A scientific idea must live dangerously or die of inanition. Science thrives on daring generalizations. There is nothing particularly scientific about excessive caution. Cautious explorers do not cross the Atlantic of truth. " From: http://www.orthomed.com/klenner.htm FOR M.D.'s ONLY Preparation of Sodium Ascorbate for IV and IM Use ROBERT F. CATHCART III, M.D. ALLERGY, ENVIRONMENTAL & ORTHOMOLECULAR MEDICINE 127 SECOND STREET, SUITE 4 LOS ALTOS, CALIFORNIA 94022 (650) 949-2822 FAX (650) 949-5083 Note: the following are excerpts from letters sent to physicians on the subject of IVC. If one does not want to make their sodium ascorbate stock solutions from scratch like I recommend (and I can well understand why you might not): You can order from Merit Pharmaceuticals, 2611 San, Los Angeles, CA 90065, For CA 800-696-3748Out-of State 800-421-9657 To order the Sodium Ascorbate Fine Crystals Wholesale Nutrition915 S. San Tomas Equino Road, CA 95008order 800-325-2664 or FAX 408-867-6236 The Stock Bottle of Sodium Ascorbate Sterilize a 500 cc IV bottle along with a funnel, the rubber stopper, and a spoon. Then fill the bottle to the 300 cc line with sodium ascorbate fine crystals. (I weighed the sodium ascorbate out one time and 250 gm came up to the 300 cc line.) Then add 1/3 of the 20 ml bottle (6.6 cc) of edetate disodium injection, USP 150 mg/ml. Then add water for injection q.s. 500 cc. Shake up the bottle and if there is 1 mm of crystals left on the bottom, add 1 mm of water to the top. It turns out that sodium ascorbate is soluble to almost exactly a 50% concentration at room temperature. I do not worry about the sterility of this because this is very bacteriocidal. Perhaps it should be filtered to get out particulate matter but I have never seen this to be a problem. The pH of this has always turned out to be 7.4. My nurse discovered recently that if you do not shake the mixture to make it go into solution until after you refrigerate it and are ready to use it that the solution is less yellow. I presume that this is good because sodium ascorbate is clear and dehydroascorbate is yellow. The made up solutions are always a little yellow but refrigeration before mixing results in a far less yellow mixture. Preparation of the IV Bottle I recommend that the above stock bottle solution be added to lactated Ringer's such that 30 Gms (60 cc) to 60 Gms (120 cc) this be added to a quantity of lactated Ringer's sufficient to make 500 cc of the final solution to be injected IV. I had been using water for injection some time ago because this solution is several times hypertonic already and I did not want to add more tonicity. However, recently I have found that lactated Ringer's feels better to patients so I use that for the final dilution (not the stock solution described above.) IM Injections IM injection material for infants is made from the stock solution diluted 50% in water giving a 25% solution. Generally, the size of the injection can be 2 cc in each buttocks. Ice may be applied if it hurts to much. This may be given every hour or so, frequently enough to bring the fever or other symptoms of excessive free radicals down rapidly. General Comments I have not had any trouble with these solutions. I hear all sorts of weird stories from patients who have gotten ascorbate elsewhere. I do not know if it is an acid problem (because ascorbic acid was used rather than sodium ascorbate) or whether some colleges get carried away with what other things they add to the intravenous solutions. I think that there may be, at times minor troubles with commercially prepared solutions because of the following. I understand that the U. S. Pharmacopeia specifies that the solutions be made from ascorbic acid and then buffered with sodium hydroxide or sodium bicarbonate to a pH between 3.5 and 7.0. I worry that 60 grams of ascorbate at a pH of 3.5 is too acid. I know that Klenner (the first physician who used high dose intravenous ascorbate by vein) also made his solutions from sodium ascorbate powder. I watch patients for hypocalcemia (although I have not seen it), hypoglycemia (I encourage patients to eat while taking the IV), and dehydration (I encourage water and slow the IV down.) I also see headaches afterward but not so much since I have been emphasizing the continuing high doses of oral ascorbic acid as soon as the IV is over. Actually I give oral ascorbic acid while the IV is going to get a double effect. Bowel tolerance goes up while the IV is running but one has to be careful to stop giving oral C about an hour before the IV stops or else you may get diarrhea as soon as the IV stops. The oral ascorbic acid is then started again 1/2 to 1 hour after the IVC stops. Subscribe to the Orthomolecular Mailing List, for doctors, biochemists, and allied professionals. -- Write to Webmaster@.... --------------------------------- Copyright © 1996, F. Cathcart, M.D.. Permission granted to distribute as long as distributed intact and with this attribution. --------------------------------- F. Cathcart, M.D. From: http://www.orthomed.com/civprep.htm meryl@... wrote: I don;t have time to go into a full explanation. I am at the hospital with my father. He may die very soon and we need to start him on IV vitamin C but they are fighting me on the dose. They want to give him 14 g over 24 hours and I want up to 200 g. I need anyone who can help me get info on endocarditis and megadoses of vitamin c to send it to me ASAP. I also need information on exactly how dosages are caclulated for sepsis. If you believe in prayer, please pray for him and please, if you have this information, get it to me quick. Thank you, Meryl Meryl W. Dorey, President The Australian Vaccination Network, Inc. PO Box 177 02 6687 1699 Phone Bangalow NSW 2479 02 6687 2032 FAX meryl@... http://www.avn.org.au " All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. " (Schopenhauer) ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you implement that decision is yours and yours alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2002 Report Share Posted April 4, 2002 Hi Meryl, Klenner's studies and observations may be more relevant than I thought. Pancarditis: Inflammation of all the sturctures of the heart. Endocarditis: Inflammation of the endocardium (the innermost tunic of the heart, which includes endothelium and subendothelial connective tussue; in the atrial wall, smooth muscle and numerous elastic fibers also occur) From " Stedman's Medical Dictionary- 24th Edition. I can understand why you are encountering opposition. The Medical Profession, FDA, etc are ignoring studies by people such as ing and Klenner and refusing to look into the benefits of Vit C. They are in fact actually trying to severly limit its use in medicine. meryl@... wrote: I don;t have time to go into a full explanation. I am at the hospital with my father. He may die very soon and we need to start him on IV vitamin C but they are fighting me on the dose. They want to give him 14 g over 24 hours and I want up to 200 g. I need anyone who can help me get info on endocarditis and megadoses of vitamin c to send it to me ASAP. I also need information on exactly how dosages are caclulated for sepsis. If you believe in prayer, please pray for him and please, if you have this information, get it to me quick. Thank you, Meryl Meryl W. Dorey, President The Australian Vaccination Network, Inc. PO Box 177 02 6687 1699 Phone Bangalow NSW 2479 02 6687 2032 FAX meryl@... http://www.avn.org.au " All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. " (Schopenhauer) ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you implement that decision is yours and yours alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2002 Report Share Posted April 6, 2002 Meyl, As it is urgent, I am just forwarding stuff I have on megadoses of Vit C in the hope that it has something of use to you. Will be thinking of you and your father......hug. Suzie Megadoses: Why The Third Face of Vitamin C F. Cathcart, M.D. Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 7:4;197-200, 1993 Copyright ©, 1994 and prior years, Dr. F. Cathcart. Permission granted to distribute via the internet as long as material is distributed in its entirity and not modified. ABSTRACT Bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid increases with the toxicity of diseases. Bowel tolerance with a disease such as mononucleosis may reach 200 or more grams per 24 hours without it producing diarrhea. A marked clinical amelioration or cure is achieved in many disease processes when threshold doses near bowel tolerance are given. In a sense, it is the reducing equivalents carried by free radical scavengers that quench free radicals, not the free radical scavengers themselves. Ascorbic acid can be dramatically useful in quenching free radicals because it is usually tolerated in amounts necessary to provide the reducing equivalents necessary to quench almost all the free radicals generated by severe disease processes. Vitamin C functions are incidental at these dose levels; the benefit is from the reducing equivalents carried. To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated. These effects are even more dramatic from intravenous sodium ascorbate.=20=20 Keywords: vitamin C, ascorbate, acute induced scurvy, bowel tolerance, titrating to bowel tolerance, the ascorbate effect, free radical scavengers, reducing equivalents.=20=20 INTRODUCTION=20 A clinical experience prescribing doses of ascorbic acid up to 200 or more grams per 24 hours to over 20,000 patients during the past 23 year period has revealed its clinical usefulness in all diseases involving free radicals. The controversy continues over the value of vitamin C mainly because inadequate doses are used for most free radical scavenging purposes. Paradoxically, the non controversial use of minute doses of vitamin C in the prevention and treatment of scurvy has set the minds of many against more creative uses.=20=20 I have found vitamin C exceptionally useful in a very high dose range. Its usefulness is in three such distinct realms that I will describe them as the three faces of vitamin C.=20=20 =20=20 1. vitamin C to prevent scurvy=20=20 (up to 65 mg/day.)=20 2. vitamin C to prevent acute induced scurvy=20=20 and to augment vitamin C functions=20=20 (1 to 20 grams/day.)=20 3. vitamin C to provide reducing equivalents=20=20 (30 to 200 or more grams/day.)=20 =20=20 One might criticize the wisdom of my use of these massive doses but Klenner had successfully utilized them previously. The works of Irwin Stone, Linus ing, and Archie Kalokerinos have supported many of my observations. It was apparent that in all the studies yielding negative or equivocal results, inadequate doses were used. In some studies, doses barely bordering on adequate, tease the investigator with statistically significant but not very impressive beneficial results.=20=20 My early discovery was that the bowel tolerance to ascorbic acid of a person with a healthy GI tract was somewhat proportional to the toxicity of their disease. Bowel tolerance doses are the amounts of ascorbic acid tolerated orally that almost, but not quite, cause diarrhea. A patient who could tolerate orally 10 to 15 grams of ascorbic acid per 24 hours when well, might be able to tolerate 30 to 60 grams per 24 hours if he had a mild cold, 100 grams with a severe cold, 150 grams with influenza, and 200 grams or more per 24 hours with mononucleosis or viral pneumonia (1, 2). Marked clinical benefits in these conditions occur only at the bowel tolerance or higher levels. I named the process whereby the patient determined the proper dose as titrating to bowel tolerance. These increases in bowel tolerance in the vast majority of patients normally tolerant to ascorbic acid (perhaps 80% of patients) are invariable. The marked clinical benefits are noted only when a threshold dose, usually close to the bowel tolerance dose, is consumed. I call this benefit the ascorbate effect.=20=20 Most patients are started at first with hourly doses of ascorbic acid powder dissolved in small amounts of water. Later, after the patient has learned to accurately estimate the dose necessary to achieve the ascorbate effect, comparable doses of tablets or capsules are also used. Where patients are intolerant to adequate amounts of ascorbic acid orally and the severity of the disease warrants it, intravenous sodium ascorbate is used. = =20 Failures are related to individual difficulties in taking the proper adequate doses. I now have had 22 years to gather clinical experience and to reflect on this phenomenon.=20=20 I want to emphasize the importance of this increasing bowel tolerance with increasing toxicities of diseases. The sensation of detoxification one experiences at these doses is unmistakable.=20=20 The effect is so reliable and dramatic in the tolerant patient as to make obvious the fact that something very important, that has not been widely appreciated before, is going on.=20=20 =20=20 THE THREE FACES=20 Vitamin C probably always functions by being an electron donor. At the lowest dose level (the first face), it is necessary as a vitamin to prevent scurvy. It is essential for certain metabolic functions which are well described and mostly non controversial.=20=20 At a second level (the second face) vitamin C is still used as a vitamin but larger doses are necessary to maintain its basic vitamin C functions because the vitamin is destroyed rapidly in diseased or injured tissues where there is an overabundance of free radicals. I described the resulting state of deficiency, if the vitamin C is not replaced, as acute induced scurvy (1, 2). There is ample evidence of this depletion of vitamin C by stress and disease as recently reviewed in the literature.=20=20 Additionally, the recent extensive research on vitamin C has concerned itself with certain functions that may be augmented by higher than minimal doses of vitamin C (20). Strangely, any usefulness of these larger than minimal doses of vitamin C remain mostly neglected by clinicians. This level is from about 1 to 20 grams a day. Benefits vary from person to person.=20=20 At this second level, as in studies reviewed by ing (11) and more recently by Hemil=84 (20), there may be expected a slight decrease in the incidence of colds but a more significant reduction in the complications and the duration of colds. Personally, I am impressed by the number of patients (but certainly not all) who tell me that they have not had a cold for years since reading ing's book and taking vitamin C. Patients with chronic infections frequently have those infections cured for the first time. Antibiotics work synergistically with these doses. A surprising number of elderly persons benefit from doses of this magnitude and may indeed have what Irwin Stone described as chronic subclinical scurvy (10). = =20 The third level of doses (the third face) is virtually undiscussed in the literature but is the most interesting. These doses range usually from 30 to 200 grams or more per 24 hours. The most important concept to understand is that while incidentally at these dose levels the vitamin C performs all the functions of levels one and two, it is mostly thrown away for the reducing equivalents it carries (3). With these doses it is possible to saturate the body with reducing equivalents, neutralize the excessive free radicals, and drive a reducing redox potential into involved tissues. Inflammations mediated by free radicals can be eliminated or markedly reduced. In many instances patients with allergies or autoimmune disease have their humeral immunity controlled while their cellular immunity is augmented (19). To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated.=20=20 The list of diseases involving free radicals continue to grow. Infections, cardiovascular diseases, cancer, trauma, burns both thermal and radiation, surgeries, allergies, autoimmune diseases and aging are now included. It is more difficult to think of a disease that does not involve free radicals. Progressive nutritionists routinely give vitamin C, vitamin E, beta carotene, selenium, NAC, etc. to counter free radicals. I certainly agree with this practice. However, there is one important concept neglected.=20=20 In the spirit that if you throw a bucket of water on a fire, it is the water that puts the fire out, not the bucket; it is the reducing equivalents carried by the free radical scavengers that quench the free radicals, not the free radical scavenger itself.=20=20 Most of the reducing equivalents utilized by non enzymatic free radical scavengers do not come from the ingested free radical scavengers but come through glycolysis, the citric acid cycle, NADPH, FADH2, glutathione, etc. Dietary free radical scavengers carry in on ingestion only a small percentage of the total reducing equivalents carried by those scavengers during their lifetime in the body. After their first pass neutralizing free radicals, the free radical scavenger must be recharged with reducing equivalents made available in the mitochondria.=20=20 Consider the following: Early in this study a 23-year-old, 98-pound librarian with severe mononucleosis claimed to have taken 2 heaping tablespoons every 2 hours, consuming a full pound of ascorbic acid in 2 days without it producing diarrhea. She felt mostly well in 3 to 4 days, although she had to continue about 20 to 30 grams a day for about 2 months. Subsequently, all my young mononucleosis patients with excellent GI tracts have responded similarly and have had equivalent increases in bowel tolerance during the acute stage of the disease.=20=20 I believe that the loose stools caused by excessive doses of ascorbic acid orally ingested is due to a resulting hypertonicity of ascorbate in the rectum. Water is attracted into the rectum by the increased osmotic pressure and results in a benign diarrhea. With toxic illnesses, the ascorbate is destroyed rapidly in the involved tissues resulting in a rapid absorption from the gut. Of the ascorbate, what does not reach the rectum, does not cause diarrhea. Intravenous sodium ascorbate does not cause diarrhea and, in fact, increases bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid while the IV is running. With hypertonicity of the ascorbate both in the blood and in the rectum, the osmotic pressure of the ascorbate is more equal on both sides of the bowel wall so no diarrhea results. If the diarrhea was cause by other metabolic processes, diarrhea would be caused by intravenous ascorbate.=20=20 It should be noted that in some cases of pathological diarrhea, ascorbic acid stops the diarrhea. Presumably in these cases some of the increased destruction of ascorbate is from free radicals in the bowel. However, in most toxic systemic diseases there is no reason to believe that the destruction of the additional ascorbate occurs directly in the bowel, so it is a safe hypothesize that this increased destruction occurs in the interior of the body.=20=20 The increased tolerance to ascorbic acid orally provides an interesting and somewhat useful measure of the toxicity of a disease. Probably it is somewhat a measure of the free radicals involved in a disease. I describe a cold that at its maximum makes it possible for a patient to just tolerate 100 grams of ascorbic acid orally without diarrhea, a " 100 gram cold. " Patients, appearing to be well, who have a tolerance over 20 to 25 grams per 24 hours probably have some subclinical condition which is being hidden by their own free radical scavenging system.=20=20 Patients with chronic infections (and a normally strong stomach) can ingest enormous amounts of ascorbic acid. One of my chronic fatigue patients is functional only because of his ingestion of 65 pounds of ascorbic acid in the past 12 months. In 22 years, I, personally, have ingested approximately 361 kilos ( 797 lbs ) ( 4.3 times my body weight ) of ascorbic acid because of chronic allergies and perhaps chronic EBV.=20=20 Considering the reducing equivalents carried by such amounts of ascorbic acid, one can only guess at the turnover rate of the non enzymatic free radical scavengers in a patient acutely ill with a 200 gram mononucleosis. However, one gains the impression that all the non enzymatic free radical scavengers would have to be rereduced many times a day.=20=20 AN ANALOGY=20 Suppose you owned a farm and on one end of the property there was a barn and on the other end of the property there was a water well. One day the barn catches fire and neighbors come with buckets to set up a bucket brigade between the water well and the barn and are putting out the fire when the well goes dry.=20=20 My use of ascorbate is like thousands of neighbors coming from miles around, each with a bucketful of their own water, throwing their own water on your fire once, and then leaving.=20=20 CONCLUSION=20 Because of the invariable (in patients tolerant to ascorbic acid) increasing bowel tolerance to ascorbic acid in patients roughly in proportion to the toxicity of their disease, there has to be something happening to ascorbate in the sick patient other than its being used as vitamin C in the classic sense. The amelioration or sometimes cure of different diseases appears related to the importance of free radicals in the perpetuation of the paticular disease.=20=20 The sudden marked benefit in many disease processes which is achieved at doses near to the bowel tolerance level suggests that a reducing redox potential is forced into the affected tissues only at those dose levels. This ascorbate effect only at the high dose levels is also suggestive that something other than classic functions of vitamin C is involved. This ascorbate effect is more compatible with principles of redox chemistry. = =20 Only a small percentage of the total reducing equivalents donated by non enzymatic free radical scavengers to neutralize free radicals, come in on the ingested nutritional free radical scavengers. Ascorbate is unique in that the body can tolerate doses adequate to supply the necessary reducing equivalents to quench the free radicals generated by severely toxic disease processes. The vitamin C is thrown away for the reducing equivalents it carries. Only in this way can the large amounts of free radicals generated by the most toxic disease processes be rapidly quenched.=20=20 REFERENCES=20 1. Cathcart RF. The method of determining proper doses of=20 vitaminC for the treatment of disease by titrating to bowel=20 tolerance. J Orthomolecular Psychiatry 1981; 10: 125-32.=20 2. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C: titrating to bowel tolerance,=20=20 anascorbemia, and acute induced scurvy.=20=20 Medical Hypotheses 1981; 7:1359-76.=20 3. Cathcart RF. A unique function for ascorbate.=20=20 Medical Hypotheses 1991; 35: 32-7.=20 4. Klenner FR. Virus pneumonia and its treatment with vitamin C.=20=20 J. South. Med. and Surg. 1948; 110: 60-3.=20 5. Klenner FR. The treatment of poliomyelitis and other virus=20 diseases with vitamin C.=20=20 J. South. Med. and Surg. 1949; 111:210-4.=20 6. Klenner FR. Observations on the dose and administration of=20 ascorbic acid when employed beyond the range of a vitamin in=20 human pathology. J. App. Nutr. 1971; 23: 61-88.=20 7. Klenner FR. Significance of high daily intake of ascorbic=20 acid in preventive medicine.=20=20 J. Int. Acad. Prev. Med. 1974; 1:45-9.=20 8. Stone I. Studies of a mammalian enzyme system for producing=20 evolutionary evidence on man.=20=20 Am. J. Phys. Anthro. 1965; 23:83-6.=20 9. Stone I. Hypoascorbemia: The genetic disease causing the human=20 requirement for exogenous ascorbic acid.=20=20 Perspectives in Biology and Medicine 1966; 10: 133-4.=20 10. Stone I. The Healing Factor: Vitamin C Against Disease.=20 Grosset and Dunlapp, New York, 1972.=20 11. ing L. Vitamin C and the Common Cold.=20=20 W.H. Freeman and Company, San Francisco, 1970.=20 12. ing L. Vitamin C, the Common Cold, and the Flu.=20=20 W.H.Freeman and Company, San Francisco, 1976.=20 13. ing L. How to Live Longer and Feel Better.=20=20 W.H. Freeman and Company, New York, 1986.=20 14. Kalokerinos A. Every Second Child.=20=20 Keats Publishing, Inc., New Canaan, 1981.=20 15. Cathcart RF. Clinical trial of vitamin C. Letter to the=20 Editor, Medical Tribune, June 25, 1975.=20=20 16. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C in the treatment of acquired=20 immunedeficiency syndrome (AIDS).=20=20 Medical Hypotheses 1984; 14(4): 423-33.=20 17. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C: the nontoxic, nonrate-limited,=20 antioxidant free radical scavenger.=20=20 Medical Hypotheses 1985; 18:61-77.=20 18. Cathcart RF. HIV infection and glutathione (Letter to editor=20 concerning Vitamin C tolerance in AIDS).=20=20 Lancet 1990; 335(8683);235.=20 19. Cathcart RF. The vitamin C treatment of allergy and the=20 normally unprimed state of antibodies.=20=20 Medical Hypotheses 1986;21(3): 307-21.=20 20. Hemil H. Vitamin C and the common cold.=20=20 Br J Nutr 1992; 67:3-16.=20 __________________________________________________=20 F. Cathcart, M.D.=20 Allergy, Environmental, and Orthomolecular Medicine=20 Orthopedic Medicine=20 127 Second Street, Suite 4, Los Altos, California, USA=20 Telephone: 650-949-2822=20 Fax: 650-949-5083=20 =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA=09 Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & UK 530-740-0561 Voicemail in US http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm " All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( & women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke=20 ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE= =20 DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin=09 International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers Education, Homeopathic Education CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2002 Report Share Posted April 6, 2002 http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Nutrition/vitc12.htm How Much Do You Need? Preface Foreword by Passwater Introduction Vitamin C Past, Present and Future Chapter 1 Vitamin C: The Difference between sickness and optimal health Chapter 2 Myths and Facts Chapter 3 Vitamin C and Ester-C metabolism and metabolites Chapter 4 Vitamin C The immune empowerer Chapter 5 Vitamin C scavenges poisonous free radicals Chapter 6 Fighter of heart disease and diabetes Chapter 7 Vitamin C and arthritis Chapter 8 Vitamin C and cancer Chapter 9 Attack on viruses Chapter 10 Vitamin C and metabolites kill the aids virus Chapter 11 The new super C Chapter 12 How much do you need? Chapter 13 Vitamin C and optimal health Bibliography The Dosage Controversy ___________________ There is an extreme difference between the 45-60 mg Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA)(179) and the 10, 20 or more GRAMS of Vitamin C suggested to therapeutically treat various illnesses(46). The very low RDAs are the amounts of Vitamin C which have been shown to prevent overt scurvy, and without this low amount of Vitamin C, humans will die. It is very difficult to calculate or even measure our state of health, because it is in constant fluctuation, according to a number of parameters: exposure to pathogens (viruses, bacteria); exposure to allergens; physical and emotional stresses, dietary abuse (too much sugar, caffeine, alcohol, etc.). Also, our emotional and psychological sense of well-being affects so many of the body's metabolic processes. The myth that almost everybody believes, even in the face of extensive clinical evidence to the contrary, is that the body can only store a limite= d amount of Vitamin C, and it is a waste of money to take any more than this amount, since it will only be excreted in the urine. The truth is that our bodily reserves of Vitamin C fluctuate according to how much is needed to buttress the immune system, scavenge free radicals, regulate cholesterol an= d sugar metabolism, repair wounds, etc. etc. Accordingly to Dr. Cathcart, a well-nourished person would normally have more than 5 grams of Vitamin C in their body(46). Most individuals' Vitamin C levels are far below this level, placing them at substantial " ris= k for many problems related to failure of metabolic processes dependent upon ascorbate " . In fact, the list of problems Dr. Cathcart suggests may become exascerbated with " severe depletion of ascorbate " is considerable: immune disorders; rheumatoid arthritis; allergic reactions; chronic infections; scarlet fever; blood coagulation processes; heart and blood pressure conditions; stress-coping mechanisms of the adrenals; impaired wound healin= g of conditions such as bed sores, hernias; spinal disc degeneration; nervous system and even psychiatric disorders; cancers. Thus, in an optimal state of health, lack of stress, etc., an individual's bodily requirement for Vitamin C could be in balance with his dietary and supplementary intake. However, if this person suffered from hay fever and was exposed to rag weed, or if (s)he came down with a nasty cold, his/her immune system would require many times more Vitamin C in order to restore his/her good health. In other words, when under severe stress, the body can literally " soak up " Vitamin C, which at other times it wouldn't need. While it is clear that there can be NO hard and fast rule about exactly how much Vitamin C to take for your particular momentary state of health, Drs. Linus ing(166), Emanuel Cheraskin(54) and others give APPROXIMATE guidelines in advising the intake of 1-3-5 g per day. But really the ABSOLUTE BEST way to know how much Vitamin C you need is to ASK YOUR BODY! And this is what the " Bowel Tolerance Technique " is about: titrating your individual body chemistry at any particular moment in time to ascertain how much Vitamin C you need. This method was developed by Dr. Cathcart(46), who has extensive clinical experience with Vitamin C, (more than 13,000 patients), and who has used Vitamin C to therapeutically treat = a large list of conditions including colds, hepatitis, mononucleosis, cancer and AIDS. The Bowel Tolerance Technique _____________________________ This method takes advantage of the body's way of showing you when you have taken enough Vitamin C, i.e. diarrhoea occurs. This is because when there i= s a concentrated solution (say of Vitamin C) in the intestinal cells, this pulls water in from the surrounding cells, loosening the stool and producin= g diarrhoea(28). Diarrhoea only occurs in response to the excess Vitamin C that reaches the intestines and is not absorbed by the body(46). In other words, when you have exceeded the level of how much Vitamin C you need at a particular time, your body lets you know by producing diarrhoea. Therefore, the optimum level of Vitamin C to take is just short of this " bowel tolerance " or diarrhoea causing level. The bowel tolerance level of your body will shift quite dramatically, depending upon how stressed your body is. It may range from 1 g or less whe= n you are perfectly healthy to 20 or even 50 g when you have a very bad cold or influenza, or even 150-200 g for mononucleosus. It would be difficult to orally take 200 g; these high doses are achieved with both oral and intravenous doses of Vitamin C, administered by physicians such as Dr. Cathcart. Table 8 lists various conditions and their Vitamin C doses recommended by Dr. Cathcart: Table 8: Usual Bowel Tolerance Doses ______________________________ Grams Vitamin C No. of Doses Condition per 24 hours per 24 hours ______________________________ Normal 4-15 4 Mild Cold 30-60 6-10 Severe Cold 60-100 8-15 Influenza 100-150 8-20 ECHO, coxsackievirus 100-150 8-20 Mononucleosis 150-200 12-25 Viral Pneumonia 100-200 12-25 Hay Fever, Asthma 15-50 4-8 Environmental & Food Allergy 0.5-50 4-8 Burn, Injury, Surgery 25-150 6-20 Anxiety, Exercise, Mild Stresses 15-25 4-6 Cancer 15-100 4-15 Ankylosing Spondylitis 15-100 4-15 Reiter's Syndrome 15-60 4-10 Acute Anterior Uveitis 30-100 4-15 Rheumatoid Arthritis 15-100 4-15 Bacterial Infections 30-200 10-25 Infectious Hepatitis 30-100 6-15 Candida Infections 15-200 6-25 From Cathcart: " Vitamin C, Titrating to Bowel Tolerance, Anascorbemia and Acute Induced Scurvy " . Medical Hypotheses: 7: 1359-76. 1981(46) . __________________________________ How to Achieve Bowel Tolerance ______________________________ Bowel tolerance level is that level where " maximum relief of symptoms which can be expected with oral doses of ascorbic acid is obtained at a point jus= t short of the amount which produces diarrhoea " . Dr. Cathcart notes that effects upon acute symptoms do not occur until doses of 80-90% of bowel tolerance are reached. This means that if you take less Vitamin C than what your body actually needs, you may not notice dramatic or even any effects upon your symptoms. The small doses prescribed in many of clinical trials with colds did exert some effect, but probably not the optimal effect which could have been achieved with subjects being " pushed " to bowel tolerance. It is relatively easy to determine your own bowel tolerance level. You may need to start gradually and build up to this level. Many people can absorb up to 10 g Vitamin C without diarrhoea; others have diarrhoea with only 1 g= .. Start taking 1-2 g Vitamin C 3 times per day, for a total daily dose of 3-6 g. After 1 week, slowly increase this amount to 4 daily doses, then 5, unti= l you reach the point when cramps and loose stools occur. This will be very easy to notice. The amount that you have taken represents your bowel tolerance of Vitamin C at that particular time. It is important to take Vitamin C regularly throughout the day, at least 3 times daily. When you ar= e ill, it may be necessary to take 1-2 gm each hour to experience relief. Wit= h some experience, you will be able to instinctively know how much Vitamin C to take, somewhere in between the amount that makes you feel good and the amount that causes diarrhoea. And you will surely notice that this level will increase dramatically when you are sick, and then return to normal whe= n you are well. Taking Vitamin C to bowel tolerance level will mean that you will always be giving your body its optimum requirement of this vital nutrient. The majority of people, perhaps 80-85%, tolerate Vitamin C without any difficulties; however a significant minority do suffer gastrointestinal upsets, including gas and diarrhoea. It should be borne in mind that often the underlying problem behind such gastric upsets is an unbalanced ecological flora, especially the overgrowth of organisms such as Candida albicans. Attention to, and restoration of the correct balance of intestina= l flora will often enhance many aspects of a person's health, not merely thei= r tolerance of Vitamin C. The producers of buffered mineral ascorbates, including Ester-CR ascorbate, claim one of the advantages of their Vitamin C is that it produces less stomach and intestinal upset than ascorbic acid due to its buffered nature. The acidity of Vitamin C in the intestines, where absorption occurs, causes Vitamin C to be pushed out rapidly due to irritation of mucous membranes. Buffered Vitamin C does not produce this effect, although it does produce CO2 gas. Ester-CR ascorbate does not produce CO2 gas, since it has been bonded and pre-reacted during its synthesis. Dr. Cathcart uses ascorbic acid, rather than buffered Vitamin C, initially in crystals rather than capsules, because he feels it has a stronger " punch " (49). Once experienced with crystals, patients " graduate " to capsule= s or tablets. Other physicians prefer buffered ascorbates such as Ester-CR ascorbate because of these digestive attributes. Because of the biochemical individuality, after trying various forms of Vitamin C, each person can usually decide which suits him or herself. If you are persuaded by the evidence that Vitamin C can positively affect your health, you owe it to yourself to experience the optimum effect, which means going all the way to bowel tolerance level. Other Methods to Determine Vitamin C Levels ____________________________________ Urine C-Strips ______________ There are a number of commercially available test papers which can providea good approximation of the level of your urinary Vitamin C concentration. With one of these, for example, C-StripsR (Wholesale Nutrition), Vitamin C turns the blue strips white. The number of seconds it takes for the strip t= o turn white can be converted to the concentration of urinary Vitamin C by reference to tables provided. There are also guidelines of optimum, borderline and " sick " ranges of Vitamin C urinary levels. Urinary excretion levels are subject to considerable variation, and are thu= s recommended as an APPROXIMATE rather than a PRECISE measure of body Vitamin C levels(54). They are a most important alarm indicator if they indicate NO detectable Vitamin C in the urine. This indicates that your body reserve of Vitamin C has been depleted, and should be replenished to afford you maximu= m health protection.=20 Laboratory Tests to Measure Plasma and Leukocyte Vitamin C Levels _____________________________________________________ A reliable yet convenient indicator of Vitamin C levels is still being sought(134). Plasma(98) is considered to indicate metabolic turnover status of Vitamin C, while leukocyte concentrations are thought to provide a bette= r measure of tissue stores of Vitamin C. However, Vitamin C utilization differs even within the different types of leukocyte cells (Mononuclear and Polymorphonuclear), and there is no easy or reliable correlation between plasma and leukocyte Vitamin C levels(26). It is more technically difficult to prepare these different leukocyte fractions than to simply assess plasma= .. Applications of techniques such as High-Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC)(19,162) will doubtless accelerate the development of a simple, easy and reliable test of Vitamin C concentration. Intradermal Test _____________ This somewhat painful, inconvenient and time-consuming procedure has also been used to measure tissue levels of Vitamin C. It involves injecting a dy= e solution to produce a wheal on the forearm, and timing how long it takes to be completely decolorized. Twenty minutes or less is a good result, from twenty to thirty minutes borderline, anything longer than thirty minutes is unacceptable(54). Not exactly the most friendly do-it-yourself technique; recommended only for those who enjoy sticking themselves with needles. Lingual Ascorbic-Acid Test (LAAT) _________________________________ This is a much more palatable measure of Vitamin C status. A drop (from a 2= 5 gauge needle) of blue dye (2,6, dichloroindophenol sodium salt solution) is dropped onto the tip of the tongue. The time is takes for the dye to disappear is again a measure of Vitamin C status. Less than twenty seconds is good; between twenty to twenty-five seconds, marginal; longer than twenty-five seconds represents depletion of Vitamin C levels(54,175). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2002 Report Share Posted April 6, 2002 Chronically ill adults. Recent studies show that vitamin C has a positive effect on patients suffering from a variety of chronic disorders. In one large study, 260 patients with viral hepatitis A took 300 mg of vitamin C a day for several weeks. The researchers, who studied immune indicators, such as serum immunoglobulin and neutrophil phagocytosis, concluded that vitamin C " exerts a remarkable immuno-modulating action. " 14 =A0 Likewise, a study of 14 patients with chronic brucellosis found that vitamin C " might partially restore peripheral, monocyte function and help the monocyte-macrophage system to mount an effective immune response against [the infection].15 In 60 patients with perennial allergic rhinitis, an ascorbic acid solution lessened symptoms in roughly three-fourths of the patients.16 And asthmatic patients who were treated with vitamin C before their airway was constricted via exercise had much less difficulty breathing.17 =A0 Test tube. The immune system process called phagocytosis, in which certain cells " eat " invading bacteria, is stimulated by vitamin C. In addition, the nutrient may reduce the suppressor activity of the mononuclear leukocytes, which weakens the overall effectiveness of the immune system.18 =A0 Animal studies. In one study of guinea pigs (which, like humans, cannot manufacture their own vitamin C), the antibody to a particular antigen responded faster when the animals received vitamin C. Meanwhile, a study of chickens analyzed their ability to withstand E. coli challenge infection by taking 330 mg of vitamin C. Only 19% of the supplemented animals got the infection, while 76% of the unsupplemented control subjects were infected.1= 9 =A0 As an Antioxidant, How Does Vitamin C Help to Protect the Body? =A0Vitamin C protects the DNA of the cells from the damage caused by free radicals and mutagens. As Gaby and Singh report, it prevents harmful genetic alterations within cells and protects lymphocytes from mutations to the chromosomes. Vitamin C may be especially important in this day and age of widespread environmental pollution because it combats the effects of many such toxins, including ozone, carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, pesticides and heavy metals. =A0It appears that vitamin C fights off these pollutants by stimulating enzymes in the liver that detoxify the body. In several studies, vitamin C reduced chromosome abnormalities in workers exposed to pollutants such as coal tar, styrene, methyl methacrylate and halogenated ethers. Another way in which vitamin C protects us is by preventing the development of nitrosamines, the cancer-causing chemicals that stem from the nitrates contained in many foods.20 =A0Vitamin C prevents free radical damage in the lungs and may even help to protect the central nervous system from such damage.21 In a study of guinea pigs, an ascorbic acid pretreatment effectively diminished the acute lung damage caused by the introduction of superoxide anion free oxygen radicals to thetrachea.22 Ascorbic acid also was tested as an antioxidant to inflammatory reaction in mice. High doses given after but not before the injury successfully suppressed edema.23 =A0As an antioxidant, vitamin C's primary role is to neutralize free radicals. Since ascorbic acid is water soluble, it can work both inside and outside the cells to combat free radical damage. As explained earlier, free radicals will seek out an electron to regain their stability. Vitamin C is an excellent source of electrons; therefore, it " can donate electrons to free radicals such as hydroxyl and superoxide radicals and quench their reactivity, " states ne Bendich in " Antioxidant Micronutrients and Immune Responses " .24 =A0The versatile vitamin C also works along with glutathione peroxidase (a major free radical-fighting enzyme) to revitalize vitamin E, a fat-soluble antioxidant. In addition to its work as a direct scavenger of free radicals in fluids, then, vitamin C also contributes to the antioxidant activity in the lipids. =A0 How Much Vitamin C Is Needed for Antioxidant Activity? =A0Free radical pathology may occur when the body's antioxidant mechanisms cannot keep pace with the rate at which free radicals and other oxidants are being formed. To supply the body with enough antioxidant power, R.F. Cathcart, a clinical practitioner who has treated thousands of patients with vitamin C, believes each person should take the vitamin up to his or her " bowel tolerance " level. Simply put, this is the level just below the daily dosage that would cause you to have diarrhea. =A0As Dr. Bland reports in The Nutritional Effects of Free Radical Pathology, Cathcart believes that the more severe the toxicity from oxygen radicals, the more vitamin C one can tolerate. Therefore, your bowel tolerance level may be 10,000 mg per day or more which should be taken in divided doses.25 =A0 Does Vitamin C Contribute to Cardiovascular Health? =A0As an antioxidant and a constituent of collagen, vitamin C may play a number of roles in maintaining cardiovascular fitness. Here's how it affects some important aspects of cardiovascular functioning: =A0Atherosclerosis status. The fatty plaques that form in blood vessels, called atherosclerosis, are a major contributor to heart disease, Vitamin C may prevent this plaque formation by inhibiting the oxidative modification of low density lipoproteins (LDLs), according to a study conducted at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center. LDLs, commonly known as the " bad " form of cholesterol, may " contribute to the atherosclerotic process by its cytotoxic effects, uptake by the scavenger receptor and influence on monocyte and macrophage motility, " say the researchers.26 =A0Beyond that, vitamin C may play a mitigating role in another aspect of atherosclerosis - the buildup and adhesion of platelets on vessel walls. As Gaby and Singh report, an injury to the vessel wall prompts the production of a prostaglandin called thromboxane. This prostaglandin causes platelets to aggregate and clot. On the other hand, a prostaglandin called prostacyclin helps protect us against the effects of this process. =A0In human studies, vitamin C in doses ranging from 1 to 2 grams per day h= as been shown to hinder platelet aggregation and adhesion, reduce the level of an oxidation by-product in platelets, and increase fibrinolytic activity, which may help to clear arteries. Animal studies have found that vitamin C can prevent or reverse the plaque formation caused by a high-cholesterol diet, reduce platelet aggregation by stimulating the production of prostacyclin, and interfere in the platelet release mechanism, thereby reducing platelet activity.27 =A0Serum lipid levels. By now, most of us know that too much cholesterol ca= n lead to heart disease. However, studies on the relationship of vitamin C to blood cholesterol levels report mixed results. According to Gaby and Singh, a few human studies have noted a positive connection between the blood levels of vitamin C and high density lipoproteins (HDLs). Unlike the LDLs, which can lead to plaque, HDLs help to reduce the risk of heart disease by " scavenging " cholesterol. Conversely, a number of studies on the vitamin C/cholesterol connection concluded that the vitamin did not have a positive effect on serum lipids. Gaby and Singh point out that most of these studies were conducted with small groups of people for a short period of time.28 =A0In one notable study, however, researchers monitored the cholesterol levels of people who took 1,500 mg of vitamin C a day. They found that the cholesterol levels were reduced significantly because vitamin C encouraged the conversion of cholesterol into bile acids, which are then eliminated from the body in the feces, according to Formula for Life.29 Similarly, several animal studies indicate that vitamin C contributes to this conversion by stimulating an enzyme that regulates the process. In addition, vitamin C may increase the beneficial HDL cholesterol.30 =A0Ischemic heart disease. When the blood supply to an organ is cut off, it deprives the cells and tissues of oxygen and results in a harmful condition called ischemia. Like other antioxidants, vitamin C can protect the area of the heart that is deprived of oxygen from further damage by free radicals.3= 1 =A0 Do Any Disease States Respond to the Use of Vitamin C? =A0Cataract development As we age, the large concentration of ascorbic acid in the optic lens beings to decline. At the same time, the risk of developing a cataract increases, in part from oxidative damage to the lens protein. As an antioxidant, vitamin C can defend the lens by hindering the destructive process of lipid photoperoxidation, which clouds the vision.32 In one national study of nutrition and disease, a reduced risk of age-related macular degeneration was related to the frequency of consumption of fruits and vegetables rich in vitamins A and C.33 =A0Animal studies also show that vitamin C serves an important role in protecting the lens. In guinea pigs subjected to heat-induced protein damage, for example, large amounts of dietary ascorbic acid reduced the loss of water-soluble proteins in the lens, thereby protecting the eyes from this type of damage.34 In another study, rats were exposed to selenite-induced cataracts, which result from oxidative stress to the lens. The preventive effects of an ascorbate treatment were significant, supporting the researchers' view that vitamin C serves as an " anticataractogenic substance. " 35 =A0Hemolytic and Sickle Cell Anemia. Vitamin C can do much to enhance the body's absorption of iron, especially the " nonheme " variety found in plants and drinking water ( " heme " iron comes from meat). Ordinarily, our absorption of iron is quite poor, putting us at risk of iron-deficiency anemia. But a handful of studies have found that 25 to 100 milligrams of ascorbic acid when taken with a meal, can double or even triple nonheme iron absorption.36 =A0Periodontal disease. Not surprisingly, the mouth is susceptible to many invading bacteria, which can plant themselves in dental plaque and lead to periodontal disease. By improving the body's defense mechanisms, then, vitamin C can help to ward off bacterial infection and maintain periodontal health. Vitamin C may accomplish this task in several ways, including the stimulation of leukocyte and neutrophil chemotaxis and bactericidal activity.37,38 =A0Remember, too, that vitamin C is a major constituent of collagen, which not only preserves the integrity of tissues but also supports the body's resistance to invading microbes. In one study of people with damaged connective tissue in the gums, vitamin C supplements of 70 mg per day increased intracellular linkages and collagen bundles. In another study, gum bleeding caused by a vitamin C deficiency was reduced by supplements of the nutrient, with greater results at 600 mg per day than at 60 mg.39 =A0Bone disorders. By now, you probably get the point that vitamin C's role in collagen formation is an important one. But if you're still not convinced, consider this addition to the picture: Strong bones depend on strong collagen. As we age, however, both the density of our bones and our level of vitamin C begin to decrease. While a number of factors contribute to osteoporosis (the loss of bone), studies show that a person's vitamin C status also is related to the maintenance of healthy bones. In fact, vitamin C may directly impact the growth of bone cells, above and beyond its call of duty in forming collagen. =A0Osteoporosis occurs most often in older women, in part because estrogen appears to help protect against bone loss. In several studies of postmenopausal women and a mixed population, vitamin C intake was correlated with bone mineral content or bone density. " Ascorbic acid intake at moderate doses is important and safe for bone maintenance, and therefore a factor in mitigating or delaying osteoporosis, " say Gaby and Singh.40=20 =A0What about the joints that connect our bones? Vitamin C may help here, too. When mice with arthritis and inflammation in their paws received vitamin C for 20 days, the treatment reduced arthritic swelling, increased their pain tolerance and decreased polymorphonuclear leukocyte infiltration. The researchers concluded: " Vitamin C may provide podiatrists with a supplemental or alternative treatment for patients with rheumatoid arthritis. " 41 Another study found that the rapid depletion of vitamin C at the site of an inflammation - such as a rheumatoid joint - may facilitate proteolytic damage.42 =A0Diabetes. Diabetics tend to have low levels of vitamin C not only in the plasma but also in the white blood cells, which constitute our immune defenses. One study, conducted at the University of Massachusetts, measured the ascorbic acid content of mononuclear leukocytes in adults with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. This content level, which serves as a gauge of the vitamin C status of tissues, was reduced by 33% in the diabetic patients, even though their intake of dietary vitamin C was adequate. According to the researchers, this impaired storage capacity " supports the theory that intercellular scurvy contributes to the chronic degenerative complications of the disease. " 43 =A0 Can Vitamin C help to Prevent or Treat Cancer? =A0Over the years, many studies have found that vitamin C is an effective anti-cancer agent. It works in the following ways to help the body combat cancer cells: =A0Studies suggest that vitamin C's antioxidant mechanisms may help to prevent cancer in several ways. It combats the peroxidation of lipids, for example, which has been linked to the aging process and degeneration. One study of elderly people found that 400 mg of vitamin C per day (for a one-year period) reduced serum lipid peroxide levels. Vitamin C can also work inside the cells to protect DNA from the damage caused by free radicals. In several studies, report Gaby and Singh, vitamin C reduced the level of potentially destructive genetic alterations or chromosome aberrations.44 =A0Many of the pollutants that now pervade our environment can cause toxic, carcinogenic or mutagenic effects. Vitamin C may be able to arrest these harmful effects, in part by stimulating detoxifying enzymes in the liver. In another study, vitamin C was shown to block the formation of fecal mutagens.45 =A0Vitamin C can help to optimize the immune system, which does the allimportant job of surveying the body for the presence of cancer cells. According to A. Passwater, Ph.D., it also enhances an intracellular material called ground substance that holds tissues together. When this substance is strong, cancer cells have a harder time infiltrating cells.46 =A0Finally, vitamin C can reduce the development of nitrosamines from nitrates, chemicals that are commonly used in processed foods. Once formed, nitrosamine can become a carcinogen. But in several human studies, in which the subjects consumed a nitrosamine precursor, the urinary levels of nitrosamines were significantly reduced by vitamin C.47 Three animal studies also support the preventive effects of ascorbic acid on nitrate-induced cancer. In all three cases, the formation of tumors was inhibited, suppressed or reduced in frequency in the animals treated with vitamin C.48-50 =A0As far back as the late 1940s, researchers began to note a connection between the incidence of cancer and a dietary deficiency of vitamin C or low blood levels in the body. Studies conducted in the past decade have confirmed that link. According to two studies from the early 1980s, 2 to 5 grams of vitamin C per day can correct these low serum levels and, in some patients, improve the immune system defenses.51 =A0At this point, it seems clear that there is a strong relationship betwee= n a person's vitamin C intake and cancer risk. In 1991, the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition conducted a comprehensive analysis of some 46 studies on vitamin C's protective effects against various types of cancer. Of these, 33 studies reported a significant link between vitamin C intake and the incidence of cancer. In fact, a high intake of vitamin C offered twice the protection of a low intake. Many of these studies defined a high intake as a daily dosage of 160 mg or more per day; a low intake generally was less than 70 mg.52 =A0According to author Gladys Block, the greatest effects were noted with cancer of the esophagus, larynx, oral cavity and pancreas, followed by cancer of the stomach, rectum, breast and cervix. While vitamin C's impact on lung cancer was less consistent, several studies did find significant protective effects. " The strength and consistency of the results reported here for several sites suggests that there may be a real and important effect of ascorbic acid in cancer prevention, " states Block. =A0Here, we summarize Block's findings regarding specific types of cancer, including non-hormone-dependent cancers (of the oral cavity, larynx, esophagus, lung, pancreas, stomach, colon and rectum) and hormone-dependent cancers (of the breast, ovaries, endometrium and prostate). In all cases, the studies either developed an index that measured participants' vitamin C intake or reported on the effects of a vitamin C-rich food, primarily fruit, in the diet.53 =A0Oral cavity, larynx and esophagus. All 8 studies reporting on a vitamin = C index found that people with a low intake had a significantly greater risk of developing these cancers. Meanwhile, six of the 12 studies of food intake rather than a nutrient index found a significant risk for low fruit intake. Of the remaining six, two found suggestive results, two found low intakes in high-risk populations and one found no effect.54 Lung. The lung cancer studies generated mixed reports on vitamin C. Of 11 such studies, five found a significant protective effect, four found protective but not significant effects and two found no effect. Interestingly, four studies reported that vitamin C had stronger effects than carotenoids. " Whereas a large body of evidence suggests an important effect for carotenoids in lung cancer prevention, " says Block, " the recent data suggest that there may also be an independent protective effect of vitamin C intake. " 55 Pancreas. In the one study that developed a vitamin C index, a high intake decreased the risk of pancreatic cancer by half. Five studies also found that fruit (and vegetables in some cases) offered significant protective effects against this cancer, which is the fifth leading cause of cancer death in this country.56 =A0Stomach. All seven studies on vitamin C intake and the risk of stomach cancer concluded that the nutrient's protective effects were significant. Of eight studies that analyzed fruit intake, all but one found that people with stomach cancer had a lower consumption of fruit.57 =A0Colon and rectum. Of six studies on rectal cancer, four found that vitam= in C offered significant protection and two found suggestive results. The results with colon cancer were less consistent. Four studies noted significant protection, two found suggestive effects and two studies that developed a nutrient index found no effect. One of these, however, reported that vitamin C-rich foods had a significant effect.58 =A0Breast, ovary, endometrium and prostate. According to Block, recent evidence indicates that vitamin C may play an important role in protecting against breast cancer. But with endometrial, ovarian and prostate cancer, studies have not found the vitamin's effects to be significant.59=20 =A0In 1976, Dr. Linus ing brought vitamin C into the limelight by reporting on the results of his cancer research. In the study he conducted with Ewan Cameron, 100 terminally ill cancer patients received 10 grams of vitamin C a day. As Dr. Passwater reports in The Antioxidants, these patients lived more than four times longer than the 1,000 control subjects who did not receive vitamin C. Only three of these 1,000 patients survived for more than a year, while 16 of the 100 patients taking vitamin C lived a year or longer.60 =A0More recently, E. Cameron reported similar results from a study he conducted in andria, Scotland, between 1978 and 1982. In this case he created a database to record various details about every cancer patient who attended 3 hospitals in Scotland during the four-year period. =A0The study included 1,826 " incurable " (in a total population of 2,804). O= f the " incurable " patients, 294 had received supplemental ascorbate at some point during their illness. The remaining 1,532 patients, who did not take vitamin C, served as the controls. In analyzing the data, the researchers found that " the ascorbate-supplemented patients had a median overall survival time (343 days) almost double that of the controls (180 days). " 61 =A0Still, other studies have found that large daily doses of vitamin C had = no effect on advanced cancer or the survival rate of women with breast cancer. " Current evidence suggests that the major benefit of ascorbic acid with regard to cancer may be in reducing the risk of developing cancer, rather than in therapy, " state Gaby and Singh.62 =A0 Does Vitamin C Function Synergistically With Other Nutrients? =A0As an antioxidant, vitamin C can rejuvenate vitamin E, making it an indirect contributor to the fight against free radical damage in the lipids. It's not surprising, then, that these two nutrients can be effective partners in reducing the destructive process of lipid peroxidation. In human and animal studies, this reduction took place in subjects with diabetes, cerebral arteriosclerosis or a heart disorder.63-65 Together, vitamins C and E can help to prevent the blood from clotting, a condition that contributes to the risk of stroke.66 This combination may offer protection against cataracts as well.67 =A0The synergistic combination of vitamins C and E may be further enhanced = by the addition of vitamin A. In one study of 30 elderly long-stay patients, for example, this trio was effective in improving certain aspects of cell-mediated immunity, such as the number of T cells, T4 subsets and the ratio of T4 to T8 cells.68 In another study, a complex of vitamins A, E and C significantly enhanced the " characteristics of enzymatic and non-enzymatic antioxidant protection of the liver " in mice.69 Finally, a classic antioxidant combination - vitamins C and E, beta carotene and selenium - helped to alleviate pancreatitis, or an inflammation of the pancreas, in a study of 28 patients. =A0 Is There Any Evidence that Vitamin C has Harmful Side Effects? =A0Over the years, vitamin C has been blamed for a number of harmful side effects, generating much controversy about the safety of the nutrient. But most of these claims are undeserved. " Apparently, vitamin C has a low order of toxicity, or intoxications would be common. Although large intakes may cause adverse effects in some individuals, some of the widely reported and often cited adverse effects have little apparent basis, " states Hathcock in " Safety of Vitamin and Mineral Supplements. " =A0Three of the most serious side effects that have been attributed to vitamin C are conditioned scurvy, kidney stones and the destruction of vitamin B12. But in analyzing the studies that reported on the relationship between vitamin C and these health problems, Hathcock has found that there is no real clinical evidence to support the idea that vitamin C is responsible for any of these conditions. =A0One common complaint regarding vitamin C is that it can cause gastrointestinal distress, including cramps, diarrhea and nausea. These symptoms, which are caused by the acidity rather than the ascorbate itself, seem to disappear when a buffered form of vitamin C is taken. In some cases, the chewable form of vitamin C also has led to erosion of dental enamel. In facilitating the absorption of iron, vitamin C can decrease the intake of copper and lead to a " negative copper balance, " says Hathcock. =A0 Correspondence: Null, Ph.D. P.O. Box 918 Planetarium Station New York, NY 10024 212-799-1243 =A0 References 1. Eberhard Kronhausen and Phyllis Kronhausen with Harry B. Demopoulos, M.D., Formula for Life, Morrow and Co., New York, 1989, p. 95. 2. Ibid, p. 102. 3. S.K. Gaby and V.N. Singh, " Vitamin C, " =AD Vitamin Intake and Health: A Scientific Review, S.K. Gaby, A. Bendich, V. Singh and L. Machlin (eds.) Marcel Dekker, N.Y. 1991 p. 103-1043. 4. Kronhausen. p. 96. 5. Gaby, p. 103-104. 6. Ibid, p. 105. 7. Ibid, p. 104-105. 8. Gaby, p. 105-108. sg 9. Gordon Schectman, C. Byrd and Hoffmann, " Ascorbic Acid Requirements for Smokers: Analysis of a Population Survey, American Joumal of Clinical Nutrition, 1991; 53:1;1466-70. 10. Kronhausen, p. 96. 11. Gaby, p.120. 12. Kronhausen, p. 102. 13 Gaby, p. 120-121. 14 V.S. Vasil'ev, V.l. Komar and N.l. Kisel, " Humoral and Cellular Indices of Nonspecific Resistance In Viral Hepatitis A and Ascorbic Acid, Ter-Arkh; 1989 61(11); p. 44-6. 15. P. Boura at al., " Monocyle Locomotion In Anergic Chronic Brucellosis Patients: The In Vivo Effect of Ascorbic Acid, " Immunopharmacol-lmmunoloxicol; 1989; 11(1): p. 119-29. 16. L. Podoshin, R. Gertner and M. Fradis, " Treatment of Perennial Allergic Rhinos with Ascorbic Acid Solution, " Ear-Nose-Throat J.; January 1991; 70(1); p. 54-5. 17. M. Miric and M.A. Haxhiu, Effect of Vitamin C on Exercise-induced Bronchoconstriction, Plucne-Bolesti; January-June 1991, 43(1-2); p. 94-7. 18. Gaby, p. 120. 19. W.B. Gross, D. and J. Cherry, Effect of Ascorbic Acid on the Disease Caused by Escherichia Coli Challenge Infection, " Avian-Dis.; July-September, 1988; 32(3); p. 407-9. 20. Gaby, p. 108-109. 21. Kronhausen, p. 104. 22. G. Becher and K. Winsel, " Vitamin C Lessens Superoxide Anion(02)-lnduced Bronchial Constriction, " Z-Erkr-Atmungsorgane; 1989; 173 (10): p. 100-4. 23. C.R. Spillert et al., " Inhibitory Effect of High Dose Ascorbic Acid on Inflammatory Edema, " Agents-Actions; June 1989; 27(3-4); p. 401-2. 24 . ne Bendich , " Antioxidant Micronutrients and Immune Responses, " Micronutrients and Immune Functions, A. Bendich and R.K. Chandra (eds.) New York Academy of Sciences, New York, 1990, p. 175. 25. Bland, Ph.D., The Nutritional Effects of Free Radical Pathology: 1966/A Year in Nutritional Medicine, Keats Publishing Inc., New Canaan, CT; 1986; p. 16. 26. Ishwaral Jialal, Gloria Lena Vega and M. Grundy, " Physiologic Levels of Ascorbate inhibit the Oxidative Modification of Low Density Lipoprotein, " Atherosclerosis; 82, 1990 p. 185. 27. Gaby, p. 125. 28. Ibid, p. 123-124. 29. Kronhausen, p. 96. 30. Gaby, p. 123. 31. Kronhausen, p. 103. 32. Gaby, p. 130-131. 33. J. Goldber et al., " Factors Associated with Age-Related Macular Degeneration, " Am. J Epidemiol.; October 1988; 128(4); p. 700-10. 34 C.S. Tsao, L.F. Xu and M. Young, " Effect of Dietary Ascorbic Acid on Heat-lnduced Eye Lens Protein Damage in Guinea Pigs, " Opthalmic, Res.; 1990; 22(2); p. 106-10. 35. P.S. Devamanoharan et al., " Prevention of Selenite Cataract by Vitamin C, " Exp. Eye Res.; May 1990; 52(5); p. 563-8. 36. Gaby, p. 131. 37. Ibid, p. 134-135. 38. A. B. Rubinoff et al., " Vitamin C and Oral Health, " J. Can. Den. Assoc.; September 1990; 55(9); p. 705-7. 39. Gaby, p. 135. 40. Ibid, p. 134. 41. R.H. et al. " Vitamin C Influence on Localized Adjuvant Arthritis J. Am. Podiatr. Med. Assoc.; August 1990; 80(8); p. 414-8. 42. B. Halliwell et al.; " Biologically Significant Scavenging of the Myeloperoxidase-Derived Oxidant hypochlorous Acid by Ascorbic Acid, " FEBS. lett.; March 9, 1987; 213 (1); p. 15-7. =A0 43. J.J. Cunningham et al., " Reduced Mononuclear Leukocyte Ascorbic Acid Content in Adults with Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Consuming Adequate Dietary Vitamin C; " Metabolism; February 1991; 40(2); p. 146-9. 44. Gaby, p. 108. 45. Ibid, p. 108 & 110. 46. A. Passwater, The Antioxidants, Keats Publishing, Inc., New Canaan, CT, 1985, p. 13-15, 47. Gaby, p. 109. 48. F.K. Dzhioev, " Prevention Using Ascorbic Acid, Hexamethylenetetramine and Sodium Metabisulfite of the Blastomogenic Effect Caused by the Combined Administration into the Stomach of Mice of Sodium Nitrate with Methylurea or with Aminopyrene, " Vopr. Onkol.; 1988; 34(11); p. 1369-73. 49. S. Dittrich et al., " Effects of Nitrate and Ascorbic Acid on Careinogenesis In the Operated Rat Stomach, " Arch. Geschwulstforsch; 1988; 58(4); p. 235-42. 50. N.L. Viasenko et al., " Effect of Different Doses of Ascorbic Acid on the Induction of Tumors with N-nitroso Compound precursors in Mice, " Vopr. Onkol.; 1988; 34(7); p. 839-43. 51. Gaby, p. 109. 52. Gladys Block, " Vitamin C and Cancer Prevention: The Epidemiologic Evidence, " American Journal of Clinical Nutrition; 1991; 53:270S-82S. 53. Ibid, p. 270S. 54 Ibid, p. 271S-272S. 55. Ibid p. 272S-273S. 56. Ibid p. 273S. 57. Ibid, 273S-274S. 58. Ibid., 275S-276S. 59. Ibid, 276S-278S. 60. Passwater, p. 14. 61. E. Cameron and A. , " Innovation vs. Quallity Control: An =8CUnpublishable' Clinical Trial of Supplemental Ascorbate in Incurable Cancer, " Med. Hypotheses; Nov. 1991; 36(3); p. 185-9. 62. Gaby, p. 117. 63. K.G. Karagezian and D.M. Gevorkian, " Phospholipid-Glycerides, Cross-Resistance of Erythrocytes, Malonic Dialdehyde Level and Alpha-Tocopherol Levels in the Plasma and Erythrocytes of Rats with Alloxan Diabetes Before and After Combined Antioxidant Therapy, " Vopr. Med. Khim; September-October 1989; 35(5); p. 27~30. 64. V.N. Bobyrev, I. Sh. Vese'lskil and L.E. Bobyreva, " Antioxidants in the Prevention and Treatment of Cerebral Arteriosclerosis, " Zh. Nevrapatol. Psikltatr.; 1989; 89(9); p. 60-3. 65. E. Barta et al., " Protective Effects of Alpha-Tocopherol and L-Ascorbic Acid Against the Ischemic Reperfusion Injury in Patients During Open-Heart Surgery, " Bratisl. Lek. Listy.; March-April 1991; 92(3-4); p. 174-83. 66. Kronhausen, p. 103. 67. J.M. on et al., " A Possible Role for Vitamins C and E In Cataract Prevention, " Am. J. Clin. Nutr.; January 1991; 53 (1 Suppl.); p. 346S-351S. 68. N.D. Penn et al., " The Effect of Dietary Supplementation with Vitamins A, C and E on Cell-Mediated Immune Function In Elderly Long-Stay Patients: A Randomized Controlled Trial, " Age-Aging, May 1991; 20(3); p. 169-74. 69. V.A. Kuvshinnikov et al., " Use of the Antioxidant Complex of Vitamins A, E and C In Murine Leukemia, " Gematol. Transvuziol.; August 1989; 34(8): p. 23-8. -------------------------------------------------------- Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA=09 moderator=09 Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & UK 530-478-1242 Voicemail in US http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm " All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( & women) do nothing " ...Edmund Burke=20 ANY INFO OBTAINED HERE NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE= =20 DECISION TO VACCINATE IS YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. Well Within's Earth Mysteries & Sacred Site Tours http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin=09 International Tours, Homestudy Courses, ANTHRAX & OTHER Vaccine Dangers Education, Homeopathic Education CEU's for nurses, Books & Multi-Pure Water Filters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.