Re: Reinforcement question

[Guest guest]

,

I am not sure what you mean by " fade your reinforcement " but we simply

increase the number of responses required before reinforcement and vary the

amount of time the child is allowed to contact the reinforcement. Most of

the reinforcement is given at the table through video, bubbles or the POOH

Learning Pond. I beleive our goal is around 60 responses (Mark can correct

me if I'm wrong), I think he is actually doing more like 30 responses now

before reinforcement and like we have said before, it is differential in that

he may only contact the reinforcer for 5 sec to maybe 30 seconds. I must

reiterate though that the prompt/reinforcement decision tree is a very

dynamic thing and we do not establish hard rules like " he must respond 60

times before reinforcement " . We base our decision based on the morning

probes and how he is doing at that moment. When he is on a roll we try to

stretch it out. We depend a great deal on our therapist's ability to analyze

his behaviors and adjust based on the principles of the science we have given

them. I know this is alot to ask. My therapist are just some college

student's who we trained (first in Lovaas type then said wait no now we want

to do Errorless). I have a good group of therapist but it requires constant

monitoring and we make mistakes. Anyway sorry I got off track. Hope that

answers your question a little, I'm sure therea are others on the list who

can answer better. I have never heard of a token system.

Patty

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/22/99 9:32:14 AM Central Standard Time,

jennie@... writes:

> Token boards are used a lot in Applied Behavioral Analysis

> programs and quite effectively.

Jennie and list,

In a typical session, we use many different reinforcers and are always

reevaluating what the current hierarchy of effectiveness is. The notes that

the therapists make for each other usually address this issue.

We usually have one board for toileting that is ongoing across

therapists. Individual therapists may start one to reward certain behavior

during their session. A therapist may choose to accumulate stars drawn on

chalk or dry erase board. When an agreed # is reached, the fun happens.

ANYTIME Colin poops in the toilet, it's Disneyland at the O'Maras. (Being

able to provide Disneyland is a basic requirement.)

Among the many things that I am not understanding is delivering the

reinforcer at the table. Someone wrote about letting the child watch 30

seconds of a video or TV. I'm guessing that some kids find this reinforcing.

I think Colin would find it infuriating. Obviously, I don't get how it

works. I'll just lurk awhile and hope for more insight.

[Guest guest]

We're sort of in the middle of types of programs, still more DTT trial

oriented in the Lovaas like mode, and as I said making the slow change over

to more S/P, etc. That said, we happily are now using a simple token board,

sometimes immediate reinforcers delivered unexpectedly for really great

work, or natural reinforcement, he is using or playing with an item to

learn something, but finds the item itself reinforcing, in which case, he

just gets that intrinsic reinforcement, and a bit of social praise.

With the token board, he scans a range of pictures we have available, and

Ize picks the photo, takes if off the velcro board and with some help

attaches it to the PECS board that says, I AM WORKING FOR: and if he picked

olives, he would see the olive photograph waiting there. When he does a few

things correctly or with good effort, another token is delivered to the

board and we read the words back again, and then he finishes something and

gets the olive. Token boards are used a lot in Applied Behavioral Analyis

programs and quite effectively. With Ize they have helped him learn that

there is not IMMEDIATE rewards and you wait and earn things, and the best

thing is that he looks pleased about it. When we start manding programs in

January, we will switch some of the reinforcement stuff around, but still

envision using the token board occasionally, and especially for something

he is not able to ask for. He uses the photographs to request and to me

that is a mand, especially since he looks at five to ten items sometimes

and then carefully decides on one. We are working on approximations of the

icons when he has a similar sound or has the word in his repetoire. We will

push for that more when he has a consultant who can help steer us in the

hows and whats of this.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

Someone wrote about letting the child watch 30

>seconds of a video or TV. I'm guessing that some kids find this

reinforcing.

> I think Colin would find it infuriating. Obviously, I don't get how it

>works. I'll just lurk awhile and hope for more insight.

>

>

>---------------------

I don't understand that either. Isaac would have to see something at least

5-10 MINUTES to consider it a real reinforcer and not just either a painful

transition and a tease. In fact, we were having morning whiny times and

screeches with one therapist and I finally figured out why, DUH. Her first

words after, " Good Morning, Isaac, " in a very friendly voice mind you,

were, " Let's go work! " as she turned OFF the TV. Now, in his mind, here he

had been, some times cuddled up with me on the couch, all nearly five feet

of him, or on the bean bag chair happily enjoying some television and in

comes our therapist, fond of her he might be, and she turns his beloved TV

off. To do what? To go work at a table! LOL

I suggested that she come in and talk to me a minute or two while he got

used to the idea that she was here and soon he would go upstairs, and then

curious Isaac would come to the kitchen to check out the situation and he

and she could get reinforcers together, and when he saw her getting black

olives this morning, he followed her more than willingly this morning

upstairs with a nary a whine. This is kind of how another therapist did it

and it worked. One of our male therapists plays with him on the couch for

ten to fifteen minutes wrestling and laughing and often chases him upstairs

or threatens a tickle match, etc., and some times brings Ize a soda or

something he can have and shows him and off they go with very minimal

disagreement if any.

Anyhow, to get back to the main point. My son would be so upset about the

television being obtained and then going off suddenly, probably right as he

gets settled in. How in the world would this work? He does not watch to

tune out and to have a TV on, but to view certain things he loves and watch

them. We use a lot of food, but we also use some books, pointing and

playing with Tank Engine things, the Physio Ball to play and work

on, walks, playground, etc. I am not sure how to deliver things beyond that

you wait for besides food.

Jennie

Jennie

[Guest guest]

Listers,

About using the TV. We positioned one right in front of the table. By the

way, we do as much as possible the table during therapy...that includes

playing with him. The idea is to blur the distinction between work and play.

I never understood why in our old Lovaas program you had to have a distinct

" work " and " play " area. No way would I leave the " play " area to go do

" work. " And we never refer to therapy as work.

Back to the TV. What we do is let Grant contact it by watching it while the

therapist is setting up. Then she turns it of and begins the drill. When he

has successfully completed the tasks we want, it goes back on (provided

that's what he mands for). For particularly difficult drills for him, we may

require fewer responses from him before it goes back on, but then we don't

let him watch it as long. That way we increase the frequency of

reinforcement while not eating into teaching time.

I suppose in some way it's a tease. But let me tell you, if you cut it off

in the middle of a favorite Veggie Tales song, he'll fly through those

responses like there's no tomorrow just to get back to that song. We also use

various foods, though we keep snacks and drinks available on the table since

he was cramming his mouth so full on his breaks that it would take 20 minutes

for the therapist to get a response out of him. He also likes a small

keyboard that we have, his beloved letter puzzles, and " Pooh's Learning

Pond. " We limit his TV outside of therapy, and don't let him watch his

absolute favorites outside of therapy....ditto for the other strong

reinforcers. Our problem with the video is he often will perseverate off of

it and stim which disrupts therapy, that's why we can't let him watch it for

more than about 30-60 seconds while the therapist is setting up for the next

drill. It really depends on him. I've seen him sit at the table for 50

minutes and not move, not stim, just answer and watch his video. When it

happens, it is truly amazing.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennie,

I agree about the TV in 30 seconds increments as a reinforcer - wouldn't work

for us.

I was thinking about what you said here - when our therapists come in, I ask

my son to please " say goodbye to the computer (or TV) " and have him turn it

off himself, then reward him when he does. He almost always complies, where

when we used to turn it off, he would get whiney. Perhaps worth a try?

Barb

>-----

>

>I don't understand that either. Isaac would have to see something at least

>5-10 MINUTES to consider it a real reinforcer and not just either a painful

>transition and a tease. In fact, we were having morning whiny times and

>screeches with one therapist and I finally figured out why, DUH. Her first

>words after, " Good Morning, Isaac, " in a very friendly voice mind you,

>were, " Let's go work! " as she turned OFF the TV. Now, in his mind, here he

>had been, some times cuddled up with me on the couch, all nearly five feet

>of him, or on the bean bag chair happily enjoying some television and in

>comes our therapist, fond of her he might be, and she turns his beloved TV

>off. To do what? To go work at a table! LOL

>

>I suggested that she come in and talk to me a minute or two while he got

>used to the idea that she was here and soon he would go upstairs, and then

>curious Isaac would come to the kitchen to check out the situation and he

>and she could get reinforcers together, and when he saw her getting black

>olives this morning, he followed her more than willingly this morning

>upstairs with a nary a whine. This is kind of how another therapist did it

>and it worked. One of our male therapists plays with him on the couch for

>ten to fifteen minutes wrestling and laughing and often chases him upstairs

>or threatens a tickle match, etc., and some times brings Ize a soda or

>something he can have and shows him and off they go with very minimal

>disagreement if any.

>Anyhow, to get back to the main point. My son would be so upset about the

>television being obtained and then going off suddenly, probably right as he

>gets settled in. How in the world would this work? He does not watch to

>tune out and to have a TV on, but to view certain things he loves and watch

>them. We use a lot of food, but we also use some books, pointing and

>playing with Tank Engine things, the Physio Ball to play and work

>on, walks, playground, etc. I am not sure how to deliver things beyond that

>you wait for besides food.

>

>Jennie

>

>Jennie

>

>

>

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>Message: 15

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 16:39:05 EST

> From: OMara@...

>Subject: Re: Finding a new consultant ....

>

>

>

>

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>Message: 16

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 16:48:07 EST

> From: OMara@...

>Subject: Re: Finding a new consultant ....

>

>In a message dated 12/22/99 11:13:56 AM Central Standard Time,

>bbird098@... writes:

>

>> it would be more cost effective for several

>> families to get together and sponsor something of this nature in your

>area.)

>

>Rhonda,

> This is an excellent idea. At this time I don't know enough about the

>DET-NET approach to " sell " the idea to other parents, but if I can get some

>to attend the workshop in February maybe a group will want to convert. My

>provider is very interested but knows less than I do about the S & P approach.

>We have 15-20 local families with ABA programs more than 18 months old and

>kids who will not be " recovered " in the C. Maurice sense. I would think most

>of them would at least be interested in learning more.

>

>

>

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>Message: 17

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:16:05 -0500

> From: Barb B <babmay11@...>

>Subject: RE: Finding a new consultant ....

>

>Hi,

>

>I was going to reply to Satoko that she shouldn't have to start all over -

>hopefully her consultant will be open to trying different approaches. It

also

>depends if your current team is working well with your child - if they are,

>then you don't want to mess up a good thing!

>

>We and I think most others on this list are still doing Lovaas or elements of

>Lovaas and simply trying to blend the S & P methods into what we are

currently

>doing. You can too!

>

>Rhonda brought up many more good points in her response, too.

>

>Barb

>------------

>>Message: 24

>> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 02:53:50 -0600

>> From: " Rhonda Miga " <bbird098@...>

>>Subject: Finding a new consultant ....

>>

>>A parent said...

>>>Now I have a good consultant and tutors who have experience with the Lovaas

>>technique. If I >decide to start doing this approach, I will lose

>>this consultant and retrain tutors or >hire new tutors if they don't want to

>>try this approach; it's like starting all over again.

>>

>>Dear Listers, The key here is NOT getting rid of the consultant and

>>therapists that you currently have, it is sharing the ABA approach we are

>>discussing on this list and making sure they have the understanding that

>>THIS IS a type of ABA. A good consultant needs to have exposure to both

>>the " Lovaas " type and the " Carbone " type of teaching, as well as Skinners

>>Analysis of Language (just to name a few areas they should be familiar

>>with). It is not just a methodology, but ABA has many aspects to it (Dr.

>>Mulick can explain it better then I can.)

>>

>>I think that the problem a lot of families have run into is that they do not

>>have consultants that have the educational background to be consultants

>>(those consultants on this list ... please do not get offended.) Hear me

>>out...

>>

>>Over the years, Dr. Lovaas has provided a wonderful program that has been

>>proven to be effective for children with autism. Can each of us say we

>>truly have had a " lovaas " program up and running? We should not put Dr.

>>Lovaas' teachings against Dr. Carbone's teachings. I do not think it was

>>our " lovaas " program that failed but our lack of a " lovaas " program that

>>failed. Let me explain... (it has only been over the years that the

>>percentages of success have decreased ... is that due to an increase in

>>children having autism or is it due to a decrease in quality programming for

>>these children?)

>>

>>I know that in our program, we have had inconsistency with consultants. We

>>moved from one state to another and felt that a local consultant, every 2

>>weeks, would be better then flying one in every 3 months. What we found is

>>that we hired a consultant that had limited experience (almost null with a

>>child with hyperlexia) and was very burned out because his case load

>>exceeded his available hours in the day! We hired another agency, (due to

>>our origional consultant was out on medical leave, otherwise we would have

>>taken her back in a heartbeat!) to take the place of our " burned out

>>consultant " that quit with less then one months notice! It took us almost

>>4-5 months to get a consult with this new consultant. This new agency we

>>chose, has a wonderful reputation but again the consultant did not have

>>experience with a child that was not text book material. (In addition, he

>>thought that a child that could say his alphabet backwards was " wow " ... I

>>should have turned and ran then...) My mistake, as a parent, was hiring

>>the agency and not taking a better look at the consultant the agency would

>>be sending us. Adventually, we were able to get our origional consultant

>>back (to whom I owe my son's life to). But once again, she travels from out

>>of town and we only get to see her every 4 months or so. We last saw her in

>>August. She is currently taking a leave of absence from work) and we have

>>been assigned a new consultant (until she returns) but it is difficult to

>>ask for professional guidance from someone who has not met or worked with

>>your child before.)

>>

>>When our consultant comes back, I do not plan on getting rid of her, but I

>>do plan on finding out what her experience is with Skinners Analysis of

>>Language. I will share with her the information I have learned and share

>>with her what Zach has learned over the last couple of months. Considering

>>the experience of this consultant, I am sure I will not have to share much.

>>

>>Second, we have not been able to hire experienced therapists (due to the

>>lack of and high demand for) but have hired willing learners without

>>knowledge of autism and/or ABA. Where do they get their training? From

>>me. Where do I get my training? from my consultations, books, workshops,

>>from parents and professionals on listgroups like this, and working directly

>>with my son. Is it quality training? some of it yes, all of it no. We

>>have also had a large turnover in therapists... due to going back to school,

>>moving, or (a limited number) just plain quitting. This is my son's life

>>and we have high expectations for the therapists who choose to work with

>>him. (Almost 3 years ago, I was once told that we provided excellent

>>training and put out quality therapists -- or teaching assts. --- but

>>because of our expectations, the therapist was going to quit to go work with

>>other families that did not expect as much from them. This has happened to

>>us.) Do I regret having a policy that they " show up " when scheduled? No, I

>>do not. As a matter of fact, it is a question we ask in our

>>interviewing... " do you have issues showing up to work when scheduled? "

>>

>>Third, we had faith in the school district. We tried their program. We

>>lost almost a years worth of knowledge in less then 9 weeks period. Who had

>>to pull my child out of the hole he fell into? Was it my consultant? no.

>>Was it my therapists? no. It was me! (and some days I have been just too

>>tired to pull, other days I have broken the rope, I have pulled so hard.)

>>

>>Do I beleive that we have offered our son a " lovaas " program over hte last 3

>>years? No. Have I done what I could to make sure we stay on track? I have

>>tried. Do I think we would be further along, if we lived in the same town

>>as our " experienced and educated " consultant, had weekly meetings, program

>>updates, consistent consultation, trained dependable therapists? You better

>>beleive it. Is it going to happen? No way! But I am going to do what I can

>>to get my son what he needs... and, you... as a parent, should too....

>>

>>If I have not lost you by now, my point is... you are NOT going to find

>>experienced people to do this work for you. You, the parent, are going to

>>have to take the bull by the horns, and teach the people around you how to

>>work with your child. Don't get rid of the ones that have just a basic

>>understanding of ABA, but help them to extend their knowledge and

>>understanding of the field they have chosen to go into. The field of ABA is

>>very broad. Lovaas therapy is only a small portion of ABA. Someone who is

>>consulting needs to have a broader knowledge of ABA and know how to

>>impliment what works for each child. (Considering many consultants out

>>there do not have the broad knowledge they need to be truly successful with

>>each child (but the demand for their services is there), please help educate

>>them. Maybe through your sharing, other families, with newly diagnosed

>>children, will not fall between the cracks.)

>>

>>Unfortunately, the demand is greater then the supply in regards to

>>experienced and educated consultants and therapists to work with our

>>children. At this time, I... the parent, can not depend on someone else to

>>come in and do this for me. Time is of the essence. (Thus the need for

>>listgroups like this one).

>>

>>Therefore (do not take offense to what I have said but...)...

>>1. educate yourself. (realize that these other people do have other

>>families, other clients, other life events. You may not be able to depend

>>on them 100%, because life happens.)

>>2. take charge of your child's program.

>>3. share your knowledge with those around you.

>>4. realize that what Dr. Lovaas has taught us is not wrong (what is wrong is

>>the watered down versions out there... due to the supply and demand issues.)

>>

>>As a parent, you may not be able to become an expert in the field of ABA,

>>but you can become an expert in your child. Do what you have to... to get

>>you child what he/she needs to be successful in life.

>>

>>Rhonda

>

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>

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>Message: 18

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:18:10 +0000

> From: Carmen Shupe <carmens@...>

>Subject: Training

>

>Hi group,

>I introduced myself awhile ago, but I will do so again. I have been a

> " Lovaas " therapist for about 2 1/2 yrs. I heard the S/P approach

>mentioned on the Me-List and started to dig deeper into it. I am now

>fascinated. My question is this...Is there somewhere that I can get

>trained to implement this approach. I will be (hopefully) taking the

>exam in May to become a board certified assistant behavior analysis

>through the Association of Behavior Analysis. I will graduate this

>August so I am not sure if I will be allowed to take it before I

>graduate. I have taken three courses in Behavior Analysis: Learning

>and Motivation, Behavioral Approaches to Complex Human Behavior, and

>Applied Behavior Analysis. In addition to those, at the end of this

>semester I will have taken three independent studies with behavior

>analyst. Two of these are in the experimental area (I work with

>Shull, Ph.D.., who just retired his post as the editor of the Journal of

>the Experimental Analysis of Behavior) and one in the applied area. I

>am looking into Graduate Schools but would also like to be trained to

>become a consultant (if that is possible). Please if anyone can point

>me in the right direction I will be forever grateful.

>

>Thanks,

>Carmen

>

>

>

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>Message: 19

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:12:45 EST

> From: HEINEYLIME@...

>Subject: RFFC

>

>Hey Everyone!

>First, thanks for all the info on Errorless teaching, it helps lots..now of

>course I am back with more questions! ( see the power of positive

>reinforcement? LOL) In anticipation of getting rolling more with this S/P

>stuff I seem to remember someone saying that you could begin RFFC when your

>child had 50 or so tacts, am I right? Well, Quin has many tacts ( probably

>into the hundreds) do I need to probe EACH 1 to make sure he also knows them

>by FFC and incoorporate RFFC immediately as I am teaching new tacts? Also,

>could someone explain about introducing new items again... I have relied

>heavily on Mass trialing a single item in the past and have found this to be

>successful , but do I understand correctly that S/P favors multiple targets

>instead. Let me say, for financial reasons I have always been my son's

>consultant, and I am excited about learning this new approach, no one has the

>same stake in his progress that I do and I want to learn all that I can to

>ensure his success.

>Thanks,

>Spencer

>

>

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>Message: 20

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:24:16 EST

> From: Kat1216@...

>Subject: Re: RFFC

>

>In a message dated 12/22/99 3:13:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,

>HEINEYLIME@... writes:

>

><< Well, Quin has many tacts ( probably

> into the hundreds) do I need to probe EACH 1 to make sure he also knows

>them

> by FFC and incoorporate RFFC immediately as I am teaching new tacts? >>

>

>This is wise, but I believe he needs to know the tact (mastered)before you

>start RFCC with it. much love,kat

>

>

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>Message: 21

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:20:24 EST

> From: Markc612@...

>Subject: Re: Reinforcement question

>

>Listers,

>About using the TV. We positioned one right in front of the table. By the

>way, we do as much as possible the table during therapy...that includes

>playing with him. The idea is to blur the distinction between work and play.

> I never understood why in our old Lovaas program you had to have a distinct

> " work " and " play " area. No way would I leave the " play " area to go do

> " work. " And we never refer to therapy as work.

>

>Back to the TV. What we do is let Grant contact it by watching it while the

>therapist is setting up. Then she turns it of and begins the drill. When he

>has successfully completed the tasks we want, it goes back on (provided

>that's what he mands for). For particularly difficult drills for him, we may

>require fewer responses from him before it goes back on, but then we don't

>let him watch it as long. That way we increase the frequency of

>reinforcement while not eating into teaching time.

>

>I suppose in some way it's a tease. But let me tell you, if you cut it off

>in the middle of a favorite Veggie Tales song, he'll fly through those

>responses like there's no tomorrow just to get back to that song. We also use

>various foods, though we keep snacks and drinks available on the table since

>he was cramming his mouth so full on his breaks that it would take 20 minutes

>for the therapist to get a response out of him. He also likes a small

>keyboard that we have, his beloved letter puzzles, and " Pooh's Learning

>Pond. " We limit his TV outside of therapy, and don't let him watch his

>absolute favorites outside of therapy....ditto for the other strong

>reinforcers. Our problem with the video is he often will perseverate off of

>it and stim which disrupts therapy, that's why we can't let him watch it for

>more than about 30-60 seconds while the therapist is setting up for the next

>drill. It really depends on him. I've seen him sit at the table for 50

>minutes and not move, not stim, just answer and watch his video. When it

>happens, it is truly amazing.

>

>Mark

>

>

>

>

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>Message: 22

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:27:29 EST

> From: Markc612@...

>Subject: Re: Answering questions/labeling attributes

>

>Cate,

>I'd work on expanding his responses when in a variety of ways. One is that

>you could simply prompt him with the desired reponse.

>What is it? Shirt

>What color is it? Yellow (Prompt it immediately, try to get an echo.)

>

>You could also tackle it another way by exanding (shaping) the desired

>response.

>

>What is it? Shirt

>Good! It is a yellow shirt

>What is it? Yellow shirt (Prompt it immediately)

>

>Also, the suggestion about a visual is good as well. Our son is hyperlexic

>as well, and sometimes he needs the visual to figure it out.

>

>Hope this helps,

>

>Mark

>

>

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>Message: 23

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:41:25 EST

> From: Jstahl2409@...

>Subject: How do I contact Carbone for a conference

>

>

>In a message dated 12/22/99 11:13:56 AM Central Standard Time,

>bbird098@... writes:

>

>> it would be more cost effective for several

>> families to get together and sponsor something of this nature in your

>area.)

>

>Rhonda,

>This is a fabulous idea and a group of parents in our area are interested in

>seeing a workshop. I just need some info on how to contact Dr Carbone. We

>have an ABA support group in our area that another parent and myself founded.

> We have at least 40 families off the top of my head that would be interested

>in seeing a workshop, not to mention the professionals ( other consultants,

>speech & OT therapist and maybe some interest from the school system...but I

>won't hold my breath).

>

>The more posts I read the more interested I am in this method. Just hope my

>consultant will be as enthusiastic. I 'm gathering her lots of info and

>can't see how shee wouldn't be receptive.

>

>Thanks

>Janet

>

>

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>Message: 24

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:15:53 EST

> From: ABAqueen1@...

>Subject: Re: questions about errorless teaching

>

>What if the item is a mastered label and he just misses it that one time?

>Would you ignore the answer and then prompt?

>

>Jenn

>

>

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>Message: 25

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:24:45 EST

> From: ABAqueen1@...

>Subject: Web page for Carbone

>

>Can someone send me the web page again for Carbone??

>

>Jenn

>ABAqueen1@...

>

>

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[Guest guest]

At 09:20 PM 12/22/99 EST, Markc612@... wrote:

>From: Markc612@...

>

>Listers,

>About using the TV. We positioned one right in front of the table. By the

>way, we do as much as possible the table during therapy...that includes

>playing with him. The idea is to blur the distinction between work and

play.

> I never understood why in our old Lovaas program you had to have a distinct

> " work " and " play " area. No way would I leave the " play " area to go do

> " work. " And we never refer to therapy as work.

I call it work, but I also try to act like work is a good thing, like Daddy

goes to work, Amy is here to work (a therapist) and so forth, so it has no

negative. But, I never really thought about it. Isaac has never had GO PLAY

skills, so we did and do blend both work/play programs at the table, around

the house and so forth, and it's either all structured, or it's just a

break, and we know we're setting up and he's running lose. Or we give him a

task that's a task completion exercise and he finishes independently.

I thought about the TV thing, and think it's an individually based

decision, but I wanted to share that Grant has been described as having

advanced receptive skills and FLYING through programs anyhow, and is young

and doing all of this early, so I think the reality is that some children,

not meaning to compare would find the TV going on and on, especially during

a favorite part might find it aversive. And I guess as parents we would

need to probe. Ize might work anyhow to get to that part, but I think he

would also be more likely to carry on which is not a big part of his

behaviors right now, precisely because I think he would wonder what he had

NOT done. After all, he was fine, happy and you take it off. I guess if you

had it going on a lot and he manded, and you made it clear he had it ON

because of a word, he might get it and accept it as part of a lesson, but

it would not be as reinforcing. Of course I could be wrong.

Jennie