Re: Finding a new consultant ....

[Guest guest]

Rhonda,

What a great post! A lot of the things you said are things I have been

thinking as I have been reading this new-to-me list. We have a workshop

scheduled for Feb. and until then I'll just be lurking here trying to pick up

helpful bits.

I'm trying to bring my ABA provider along too. Are there any consultants

who can consult on a one time basis to advise and train therapists in an

established program?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/22/99 11:13:56 AM Central Standard Time,

bbird098@... writes:

> it would be more cost effective for several

> families to get together and sponsor something of this nature in your

area.)

Rhonda,

This is an excellent idea. At this time I don't know enough about the

DET-NET approach to " sell " the idea to other parents, but if I can get some

to attend the workshop in February maybe a group will want to convert. My

provider is very interested but knows less than I do about the S & P approach.

We have 15-20 local families with ABA programs more than 18 months old and

kids who will not be " recovered " in the C. Maurice sense. I would think most

of them would at least be interested in learning more.

[Guest guest]

> From: OMara@...

Are there any consultants

> who can consult on a one time basis to advise and train therapists in an

> established program?

Due to our experience with therapists going off to college, hiring new

people, etc. I think it might be more effective to try and arrange area

" ABCs to Teaching " type workshops.... for both parents and therapists.

(FEAT-NT has been sponsoring " ABCs of ABA " workshops over the last year. I

think we are working on #4 that will be Jan 8. Unfortunately, we have not

incorporated the " ABCs of NET " yet. I am quite sure we will be adding

information regarding Skinners Analysis of Language in the near future.)

Currently, S/P offer small workshops throughout the year at there training

facility in California. They are also willing to travel. We are currently

setting up a workshop of this nature for the North Texas area in the near

future. (This is not cheap, but when you take in account a consultant

coming into your home @ $125 per hour +... and having to pay all your

therapists to attend too.... it would be more cost effective for several

families to get together and sponsor something of this nature in your area.)

Also, considering the possibility of " life happening " in our therapists and

consultants lives, I highly recommend " parents " attending and learning as

much about implementing this teaching themselves.

I am planning to attend a workshop of this nature in January. What has been

very frustrating for me is knowing that I am in charge of my son's future

but not having the tools needed to follow through and be successful. This

year I am changing my view. I will be our consultant. I will educate myself

on this type of teaching so I can provide more quality training to our

therapists. We,as parents, do know our child best.

So..... any consultants on the list that would be willing to travel to areas

and provide families with " the how to catch the fish " vs. " the fish itself " ,

let us know.

Blessings and Happy Holidays. Rhonda Miga

[Guest guest]

Rhonda,

Thank you for post. Believe me, I know I'm the one who need to take charge

of my son's program and I have a lot to learn and am willing to learn(that's

why I'm on this list, right?).

I was so tired last night and felt like needing gentle encouraging words. I

guess I should never write email when I'm overly depressed and tired. I

didn't wanted to be reminded all the things I am fully aware of, but I

totally agree with what you wrote.

I have a staff meeting today and I'm going to explain as much as I can to

make them understand this S/P approach and why I think it will help my son.

By the way, I was not looking for a new consultant; I was going to train

myself and do without a consultant for a while. Now I think I'll talk to my

consultant and hopefully she will be open about this approach and we can

work together.

Satoko

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I was going to reply to Satoko that she shouldn't have to start all over -

hopefully her consultant will be open to trying different approaches. It also

depends if your current team is working well with your child - if they are,

then you don't want to mess up a good thing!

We and I think most others on this list are still doing Lovaas or elements of

Lovaas and simply trying to blend the S & P methods into what we are currently

doing. You can too!

Rhonda brought up many more good points in her response, too.

Barb

------------

>Message: 24

> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 02:53:50 -0600

> From: " Rhonda Miga " <bbird098@...>

>Subject: Finding a new consultant ....

>

>A parent said...

>>Now I have a good consultant and tutors who have experience with the Lovaas

>technique. If I >decide to start doing this approach, I will lose

>this consultant and retrain tutors or >hire new tutors if they don't want to

>try this approach; it's like starting all over again.

>

>Dear Listers, The key here is NOT getting rid of the consultant and

>therapists that you currently have, it is sharing the ABA approach we are

>discussing on this list and making sure they have the understanding that

>THIS IS a type of ABA. A good consultant needs to have exposure to both

>the " Lovaas " type and the " Carbone " type of teaching, as well as Skinners

>Analysis of Language (just to name a few areas they should be familiar

>with). It is not just a methodology, but ABA has many aspects to it (Dr.

>Mulick can explain it better then I can.)

>

>I think that the problem a lot of families have run into is that they do not

>have consultants that have the educational background to be consultants

>(those consultants on this list ... please do not get offended.) Hear me

>out...

>

>Over the years, Dr. Lovaas has provided a wonderful program that has been

>proven to be effective for children with autism. Can each of us say we

>truly have had a " lovaas " program up and running? We should not put Dr.

>Lovaas' teachings against Dr. Carbone's teachings. I do not think it was

>our " lovaas " program that failed but our lack of a " lovaas " program that

>failed. Let me explain... (it has only been over the years that the

>percentages of success have decreased ... is that due to an increase in

>children having autism or is it due to a decrease in quality programming for

>these children?)

>

>I know that in our program, we have had inconsistency with consultants. We

>moved from one state to another and felt that a local consultant, every 2

>weeks, would be better then flying one in every 3 months. What we found is

>that we hired a consultant that had limited experience (almost null with a

>child with hyperlexia) and was very burned out because his case load

>exceeded his available hours in the day! We hired another agency, (due to

>our origional consultant was out on medical leave, otherwise we would have

>taken her back in a heartbeat!) to take the place of our " burned out

>consultant " that quit with less then one months notice! It took us almost

>4-5 months to get a consult with this new consultant. This new agency we

>chose, has a wonderful reputation but again the consultant did not have

>experience with a child that was not text book material. (In addition, he

>thought that a child that could say his alphabet backwards was " wow " ... I

>should have turned and ran then...) My mistake, as a parent, was hiring

>the agency and not taking a better look at the consultant the agency would

>be sending us. Adventually, we were able to get our origional consultant

>back (to whom I owe my son's life to). But once again, she travels from out

>of town and we only get to see her every 4 months or so. We last saw her in

>August. She is currently taking a leave of absence from work) and we have

>been assigned a new consultant (until she returns) but it is difficult to

>ask for professional guidance from someone who has not met or worked with

>your child before.)

>

>When our consultant comes back, I do not plan on getting rid of her, but I

>do plan on finding out what her experience is with Skinners Analysis of

>Language. I will share with her the information I have learned and share

>with her what Zach has learned over the last couple of months. Considering

>the experience of this consultant, I am sure I will not have to share much.

>

>Second, we have not been able to hire experienced therapists (due to the

>lack of and high demand for) but have hired willing learners without

>knowledge of autism and/or ABA. Where do they get their training? From

>me. Where do I get my training? from my consultations, books, workshops,

>from parents and professionals on listgroups like this, and working directly

>with my son. Is it quality training? some of it yes, all of it no. We

>have also had a large turnover in therapists... due to going back to school,

>moving, or (a limited number) just plain quitting. This is my son's life

>and we have high expectations for the therapists who choose to work with

>him. (Almost 3 years ago, I was once told that we provided excellent

>training and put out quality therapists -- or teaching assts. --- but

>because of our expectations, the therapist was going to quit to go work with

>other families that did not expect as much from them. This has happened to

>us.) Do I regret having a policy that they " show up " when scheduled? No, I

>do not. As a matter of fact, it is a question we ask in our

>interviewing... " do you have issues showing up to work when scheduled? "

>

>Third, we had faith in the school district. We tried their program. We

>lost almost a years worth of knowledge in less then 9 weeks period. Who had

>to pull my child out of the hole he fell into? Was it my consultant? no.

>Was it my therapists? no. It was me! (and some days I have been just too

>tired to pull, other days I have broken the rope, I have pulled so hard.)

>

>Do I beleive that we have offered our son a " lovaas " program over hte last 3

>years? No. Have I done what I could to make sure we stay on track? I have

>tried. Do I think we would be further along, if we lived in the same town

>as our " experienced and educated " consultant, had weekly meetings, program

>updates, consistent consultation, trained dependable therapists? You better

>beleive it. Is it going to happen? No way! But I am going to do what I can

>to get my son what he needs... and, you... as a parent, should too....

>

>If I have not lost you by now, my point is... you are NOT going to find

>experienced people to do this work for you. You, the parent, are going to

>have to take the bull by the horns, and teach the people around you how to

>work with your child. Don't get rid of the ones that have just a basic

>understanding of ABA, but help them to extend their knowledge and

>understanding of the field they have chosen to go into. The field of ABA is

>very broad. Lovaas therapy is only a small portion of ABA. Someone who is

>consulting needs to have a broader knowledge of ABA and know how to

>impliment what works for each child. (Considering many consultants out

>there do not have the broad knowledge they need to be truly successful with

>each child (but the demand for their services is there), please help educate

>them. Maybe through your sharing, other families, with newly diagnosed

>children, will not fall between the cracks.)

>

>Unfortunately, the demand is greater then the supply in regards to

>experienced and educated consultants and therapists to work with our

>children. At this time, I... the parent, can not depend on someone else to

>come in and do this for me. Time is of the essence. (Thus the need for

>listgroups like this one).

>

>Therefore (do not take offense to what I have said but...)...

>1. educate yourself. (realize that these other people do have other

>families, other clients, other life events. You may not be able to depend

>on them 100%, because life happens.)

>2. take charge of your child's program.

>3. share your knowledge with those around you.

>4. realize that what Dr. Lovaas has taught us is not wrong (what is wrong is

>the watered down versions out there... due to the supply and demand issues.)

>

>As a parent, you may not be able to become an expert in the field of ABA,

>but you can become an expert in your child. Do what you have to... to get

>you child what he/she needs to be successful in life.

>

>Rhonda

------------------------------------------------------------

Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:

http://MailAndNews.com and http://MailAndNews.co.uk

------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Rhonda,

List owner? If so, thanks,

You are 100% in my little humble opinion here. Parents have a tough road

ahead of them but we really have to do most of the work ourselves. I love

these lists, they are so full of parents that should be parents of the

millenium, they are so intelligent, dedicated, and persistent. I think

that's what helps our kids. We really have to do most of the programming,

overseeing, and at least some of the actual therapy ourselves because of the

lack of $$ and trained personnel (consultants mainly). That's why it is

very important to pool parents together to train each other, hire

therapists, and train them. Unfortunately, I find that I live in a small

town with no consultant anywhere close by, parents that are too frazzled,

lacking funds, and lacking solidarity to pool together, and a school system

that gives me nightmares even though my son is only in Early Intervention!

But... where there's a will, there's a way

Kathy

Mom to Calvin " the monkey boy " 3.9 ASD

http://www.users.uswest.net/~tbharris/

[ ] Finding a new consultant ....

From: " Rhonda Miga " <bbird098@...>

A parent said...

>Now I have a good consultant and tutors who have experience with the Lovaas

technique. If I >decide to start doing this approach, I will lose

this consultant and retrain tutors or >hire new tutors if they don't want to

try this approach; it's like starting all over again.

Dear Listers, The key here is NOT getting rid of the consultant and

therapists that you currently have, it is sharing the ABA approach we are

discussing on this list and making sure they have the understanding that

THIS IS a type of ABA. A good consultant needs to have exposure to both

the " Lovaas " type and the " Carbone " type of teaching, as well as Skinners

Analysis of Language (just to name a few areas they should be familiar

with). It is not just a methodology, but ABA has many aspects to it (Dr.

Mulick can explain it better then I can.)

I think that the problem a lot of families have run into is that they do not

have consultants that have the educational background to be consultants

(those consultants on this list ... please do not get offended.) Hear me

out...

Over the years, Dr. Lovaas has provided a wonderful program that has been

proven to be effective for children with autism. Can each of us say we

truly have had a " lovaas " program up and running? We should not put Dr.

Lovaas' teachings against Dr. Carbone's teachings. I do not think it was

our " lovaas " program that failed but our lack of a " lovaas " program that

failed. Let me explain... (it has only been over the years that the

percentages of success have decreased ... is that due to an increase in

children having autism or is it due to a decrease in quality programming for

these children?)

I know that in our program, we have had inconsistency with consultants. We

moved from one state to another and felt that a local consultant, every 2

weeks, would be better then flying one in every 3 months. What we found is

that we hired a consultant that had limited experience (almost null with a

child with hyperlexia) and was very burned out because his case load

exceeded his available hours in the day! We hired another agency, (due to

our origional consultant was out on medical leave, otherwise we would have

taken her back in a heartbeat!) to take the place of our " burned out

consultant " that quit with less then one months notice! It took us almost

4-5 months to get a consult with this new consultant. This new agency we

chose, has a wonderful reputation but again the consultant did not have

experience with a child that was not text book material. (In addition, he

thought that a child that could say his alphabet backwards was " wow " ... I

should have turned and ran then...) My mistake, as a parent, was hiring

the agency and not taking a better look at the consultant the agency would

be sending us. Adventually, we were able to get our origional consultant

back (to whom I owe my son's life to). But once again, she travels from out

of town and we only get to see her every 4 months or so. We last saw her in

August. She is currently taking a leave of absence from work) and we have

been assigned a new consultant (until she returns) but it is difficult to

ask for professional guidance from someone who has not met or worked with

your child before.)

When our consultant comes back, I do not plan on getting rid of her, but I

do plan on finding out what her experience is with Skinners Analysis of

Language. I will share with her the information I have learned and share

with her what Zach has learned over the last couple of months. Considering

the experience of this consultant, I am sure I will not have to share much.

Second, we have not been able to hire experienced therapists (due to the

lack of and high demand for) but have hired willing learners without

knowledge of autism and/or ABA. Where do they get their training? From

me. Where do I get my training? from my consultations, books, workshops,

from parents and professionals on listgroups like this, and working directly

with my son. Is it quality training? some of it yes, all of it no. We

have also had a large turnover in therapists... due to going back to school,

moving, or (a limited number) just plain quitting. This is my son's life

and we have high expectations for the therapists who choose to work with

him. (Almost 3 years ago, I was once told that we provided excellent

training and put out quality therapists -- or teaching assts. --- but

because of our expectations, the therapist was going to quit to go work with

other families that did not expect as much from them. This has happened to

us.) Do I regret having a policy that they " show up " when scheduled? No, I

do not. As a matter of fact, it is a question we ask in our

interviewing... " do you have issues showing up to work when scheduled? "

Third, we had faith in the school district. We tried their program. We

lost almost a years worth of knowledge in less then 9 weeks period. Who had

to pull my child out of the hole he fell into? Was it my consultant? no.

Was it my therapists? no. It was me! (and some days I have been just too

tired to pull, other days I have broken the rope, I have pulled so hard.)

Do I beleive that we have offered our son a " lovaas " program over hte last 3

years? No. Have I done what I could to make sure we stay on track? I have

tried. Do I think we would be further along, if we lived in the same town

as our " experienced and educated " consultant, had weekly meetings, program

updates, consistent consultation, trained dependable therapists? You better

beleive it. Is it going to happen? No way! But I am going to do what I can

to get my son what he needs... and, you... as a parent, should too....

If I have not lost you by now, my point is... you are NOT going to find

experienced people to do this work for you. You, the parent, are going to

have to take the bull by the horns, and teach the people around you how to

work with your child. Don't get rid of the ones that have just a basic

understanding of ABA, but help them to extend their knowledge and

understanding of the field they have chosen to go into. The field of ABA is

very broad. Lovaas therapy is only a small portion of ABA. Someone who is

consulting needs to have a broader knowledge of ABA and know how to

impliment what works for each child. (Considering many consultants out

there do not have the broad knowledge they need to be truly successful with

each child (but the demand for their services is there), please help educate

them. Maybe through your sharing, other families, with newly diagnosed

children, will not fall between the cracks.)

Unfortunately, the demand is greater then the supply in regards to

experienced and educated consultants and therapists to work with our

children. At this time, I... the parent, can not depend on someone else to

come in and do this for me. Time is of the essence. (Thus the need for

listgroups like this one).

Therefore (do not take offense to what I have said but...)...

1. educate yourself. (realize that these other people do have other

families, other clients, other life events. You may not be able to depend

on them 100%, because life happens.)

2. take charge of your child's program.

3. share your knowledge with those around you.

4. realize that what Dr. Lovaas has taught us is not wrong (what is wrong is

the watered down versions out there... due to the supply and demand issues.)

As a parent, you may not be able to become an expert in the field of ABA,

but you can become an expert in your child. Do what you have to... to get

you child what he/she needs to be successful in life.

Rhonda