Re: DTT and NET (long)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/8/00 8:26:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,

ipawling@... writes:

<< I also think that as you move from highly structured DTT sessions (and

don't get me wrong, according to Dr. P these are needed throughout

intervention too) toward more naturalistic teaching you need more

organization and planning, >>

Having been in a traditional ABA program for several years, I wanted to make

a comparison here. We were taught to generalize every thing learned at

table, to the environment. ( we were not actually taught how to do

this-planning, etc., just that we needed to do it). From your post, I'm

thinking that the difference in s/p here( beyond what we have all discussed

regarding errorless, etc) is 1. it is organized precise, and planned work,

though to the child it will not appear that way 2. It is actually new

aquisition of skills gained in the natural environment instead of at the

table, as well as generalization of learned skills 3. The ultimate goal is

for them to learn in the natural environment(to be fair, I think

practitioners of traditional programs would say this was their goal as well,

but a constructed format for this was never presented to us, and my child

would definitely need a precisely organized NET program. I do know children

who were able to do this and successfully completed programs, generalizing to

the natural environement, etc. I think while hard for all, this comes easier

for some than others and more planning, administration and precise training

are needed for some than others)

Keep the great information coming, Isabel and please correct any mistakes I

made in the above.all love,kat

[Guest guest]

Dear Kat:

Your comments are right on target, I thought I'd elaborate a little more

.. . .

You wrote:

<<<<1. it is organized precise, and planned work, though to the child it

will not appear that way>>>>

Yes, and I think that's how people, like the Santopadres did with

, were able to get in so much learning in very long periods at a

time (the 90% I talked about). I also remember as having simulated

many " preschool " type activities with her and while it may have been, say

fingerpainting, 's goals focused on whatever verbal behavior they were

working on. At one of the workshops where she presented, she brought a lot

of the curriculum materials she used in developing the activities she did

with her daugther. Just about all of them were regular preschool " teaching "

books. She would adapt the activities but she would use a lot of the ideas

and just surround them with verbal behavior targets. I liked Patty's post

too and reminded me that she also mentioned that they would go to the

supermarket and did little shopping. She brought with her not a detailed

shopping list, but a list of targets and they would " shop " .

Another example they gave was of a therapist who would take a child to

the park with materials to do a craft (enough for several kids). As kids in

the park would join the activity (and apparently kids would flock), the

therapist would work on some very specific language goals . . . that had

been identified ahead of time. They would prompt the child to ask for the

scissors, introduce himself, etc. So the therapist was having the child

work . . . but the child was not aware that that's what it was. Here's

where a very skilled and confident therapist comes in real nice . . .

<<<<2. It is actually new aquisition of skills gained in the natural

environment instead of at the table, as well as generalization of learned

skills>>>>

Yes, and that's something that I did not make really clear perhaps in my

post that's really critical, thanks for pointing that out. The child is

learning new skills. And again, you have to look for situations that lend

themselves naturally to target specific skills that would be appropriate for

the child or somehow create them and plan your teaching around it.

<<<<3. The ultimate goal is for them to learn in the natural environment

(to be fair, I think practitioners of traditional programs would say this

was their goal as well, but a constructed format for this was never

presented to us>>>>

Yes, but you gradually teach the child to learn from the environment.

And over time, the goal is for the child to acquire new skills rapidly in

the natural environment. I remember saying during the two workshops I

attended that the ultimate goal of their program is for children to " learn

to learn " from the environment and incidentally. But as you say, some kids

need to be taught in a systematic and organized way. Also the idea is that

over time the planning and organization on the part of the therapists

decreases as you see the child begin to acquire new skills more rapidly -

incidentally.

<<<< and my child would definitely need a precisely organized NET

program.>>>>

Again, this seems to be a missing link with some kids.

I think the same parallel can be drawn with those kids who get the

function of language on their own (and go on to be the " indistinguishable "

kids we hear about) and the rest of them who need to be taught how words are

used.

All the best!

Isabel

ipawling@...