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Re: Ticks/lyme

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The recent discussion on ticks/ lyme and the erlichia diseases brings to mind (I

have horses) the one I have vaccinated my own horses for. Erlichia risticii aka

Potomac horse fever, as the first

outbreaks of it originated in the Potomac river valley of land ( in the

70's). This illness in horses has spread to nearly all of the US now, but still

is not known how it is transmitted. Its

thought to be an insect vector, either fly, tick or mosquito as its more

prevalant during the spring and summer months (mosquito season). Am wondering

if some of these rickettsial type illnesses

are not spread more by mosquitos than ticks as they seem to be everywhere

exposing everyone?

Potomac horse fever in horses can strike in an area and only a few horses will

become ill, many times horses that have never been in contact with one another

and the rest of the herd remaining

healthy.

Wonder if the time of year one becomes ill with CFS in those of us with sudden

onset has any significance???? I had sudden onset in June/July.

Marcia

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> This illness in horses has spread

> to nearly all of the US now, but still is not known how it is

> transmitted. Its

> thought to be an insect vector, either fly, tick or mosquito

" Scientists " make many dogmatic, but completely unfounded,

statements about which vectors cause which diseases.

The fact is that they want to appear to know more than

they do. There is MUCH that is unknown. When I lived

in Malaysia, the father of one of my students was one of

the world's leading experts on mosquitos. He was doing

research, the nature of which he was not able to divulge.

I had a very enlightening conversation with him. It was

during this time that statements were noised about

saying AIDS couldn't be spread by mosquitos. He said

this was not proved. He said it was unlikely for many

reasons, but that in order to say that AIDS could absolutely

not be spread by mosquitos would require experiments

testing all species of mosquitos and this research has

NOT BEEN DONE. Its interesting that the " experts "

make these dogmatic statements based on theory.

There are other diseases carried by ticks. There is

something called tick-bourne encephalitis that I've

been trying unsuccessfully to find info about. What

I do know is that that American troops are being

experimented on with a tick-bourne encephalitis

vaccine.

Another tick-bourne disease is Colorado Tick

fever (CTF) - which I got in the 70's (and which is

NOT limited to Colorado). I can find virtually no

info on this disease either (was a miracle the doc

figured it out). CTF felt remarkably like CFS and

I often wonder if the CTF went into a latent period

was reactivated by a triggering event.

What I also learned from this mosquito researcher

is that there are over 300 different kinds of malaria

(and many are spread by species OTHER than the

anopholes or ades) and that very little was known

about some of the lesser-known forms of malaria.

I got a very mild form of malaria

while on a trek in the golden triangle. I had what

felt alot like CFS and fibro for several months. I also

got Dengue fever, which also felt like CFS and fibro

for several months. I wonder if these microbes

have been reactivated in me. (They supposedly

never all die off, but go into latent forms)

Since so little is known about the milder forms of

malaria and dengue, and since they are so notoriously

difficult to detect, I've wondered if these could also

be factors in CFS.

Especially since we know the military has been

developing " weaponized " mosquitos for a long

time, and has probably tested them on unwitting

citizens (with CFS-like outbreaks near testing

areas - see common cause for details)

Sorry for the rambling, but there is just too much

that is not known about about the diseases that

ticks, mosquitos and other vecors carry to make

dogmatic statements.

Patti

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I have heard of folks doing well on it also --is it an abx or antiviral?

thanks

Steve

Marcia Grahn wrote:

> From: Marcia Grahn <mgrahn@...>

>

> Skari, M wrote:

>

> > Since so little is known about the milder forms of

> > malaria and dengue, and since they are so notoriously

> > difficult to detect, I've wondered if these could also

> > be factors in CFS.

>

> I've wondered this too when many on the list said they do well on Flagyl.

Flagyl is an old malaria medication. Flagyl can be a very hard med to tolerate

for many, yet some CFSers feel better on

> it. I thought that was interesting.....

>

> Marcia

>

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

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thanks for your thoughtful response, we can discuss some of these issues later.

Remember how Darwin pick up a virus on his voyage on the beagle hope I

got the name of the ship correct) He

suffered from recurring bouts of illness for the rest of his life. Yet he still

made a contribution that change the course of intellectual history.

Take care

Steve

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> > Since so little is known about the milder forms of

> > malaria and dengue, and since they are so notoriously

> > difficult to detect, I've wondered if these could also

> > be factors in CFS.

>

> I've wondered this too when many on the list said they do

> well on Flagyl. Flagyl is an old malaria medication. Flagyl

> can be a very hard med to tolerate for many, yet some CFSers

> feel better on

> it. I thought that was interesting.....

Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

better!

patti

--

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Skari, M wrote:

> Since so little is known about the milder forms of

> malaria and dengue, and since they are so notoriously

> difficult to detect, I've wondered if these could also

> be factors in CFS.

I've wondered this too when many on the list said they do well on Flagyl.

Flagyl is an old malaria medication. Flagyl can be a very hard med to tolerate

for many, yet some CFSers feel better on

it. I thought that was interesting.....

Marcia

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my latest drink is spice run mixed with vanela flavor " soy milk " -- sort of

like eggnog

good night

Steve

" Skari, M " wrote:

> From: " Skari, M " <SkariPM@...>

>

> > > Since so little is known about the milder forms of

> > > malaria and dengue, and since they are so notoriously

> > > difficult to detect, I've wondered if these could also

> > > be factors in CFS.

> >

> > I've wondered this too when many on the list said they do

> > well on Flagyl. Flagyl is an old malaria medication. Flagyl

> > can be a very hard med to tolerate for many, yet some CFSers

> > feel better on

> > it. I thought that was interesting.....

>

> Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

> I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

> better!

>

> patti

> --

>

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

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Dr. Steve wrote:

> From: " Dr. Steve " <moores@...>

>

> I have heard of folks doing well on it also --is it an abx or antiviral?

Old abx. It has a warning in my old old PDR that it is carcinogenic in mice and

possibly in rats and should not be used unnecessarily or in diseases of the CNS.

There are many contraindications and

possible reactions.......suggest anyone considering taking it look it up a more

current PDR than I've got.

Marcia

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Skari, M wrote:

> Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

> I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

> better!

>

> patti

> --

Where do I sign up for your clinical trials on this treatment???? LOL!

Marcia

>

>

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

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>

>I've wondered this too when many on the list said they do well on Flagyl.

Flagyl is an old malaria medication. Flagyl can be a very hard med to

tolerate for many, yet some CFSers feel better on

>it. I thought that was interesting.....

>

>Marcia

Plaquenil is also a malaria medication but it is used in autoimmune

disorders as well. Some PWC feel helped by it (it is supposed to decrease

NO)

Stania

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>

>

>There are other diseases carried by ticks. There is

>something called tick-bourne encephalitis that I've

>been trying unsuccessfully to find info about. What

>I do know is that that American troops are being

>experimented on with a tick-bourne encephalitis

>vaccine.

>

Tick bourne encephalitis (tbe) is caused by arbo viruses. There are

central-european tbe, Russian spring-summer enc., Scotch louping-ill, horse

enc. - american (east, west and venezuela), Japanese enc. ( or Encephalitis

B)and Epidemic enc.(Encephalitis A)

Hope this could help your research

Stania

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Actually, reading Osler's web ($5 on Amazon!) ... that is one

'interpretation' of the Incline village outbreak...

Visitor from Africa ==> visit relatives across US

--> ALL of his relatives developed an extremely rare form of

cancer [thus infectious cancer issue.... written up in journals]

--> one was in the Incline Village area, shortly before its

outbreak

--> ... seem to recall some indicators with the Incline village

patients

--> a very poor rural community close by also had an outbreak at

the same time.... one of the patients frequented Incline Village..

--> SF (where many visitors to IV came from) had a subsequent

large increase in CFS

........ Thus an Africian originating illness for one strain of CFS is

protrayed as a reasonable conclusion..

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what is the treatment for tick born E

Stanislava Mužíková wrote:

> From: " =?iso-8859-1?B?U3RhbmlzbGF2YSBNdZ7ta2924Q==?= "

<stanislava.muzikova@...>

>

> >

> >

> >There are other diseases carried by ticks. There is

> >something called tick-bourne encephalitis that I've

> >been trying unsuccessfully to find info about. What

> >I do know is that that American troops are being

> >experimented on with a tick-bourne encephalitis

> >vaccine.

> >

> Tick bourne encephalitis (tbe) is caused by arbo viruses. There are

> central-european tbe, Russian spring-summer enc., Scotch louping-ill, horse

> enc. - american (east, west and venezuela), Japanese enc. ( or Encephalitis

> B)and Epidemic enc.(Encephalitis A)

> Hope this could help your research

> Stania

>

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

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Hi,

In addition, lyme pts are sometimes given plaqunil (usually used in lupus

to slow disease process). However it is an antimalarial - curiouser and

curiouser.....!

CHristie

>Skari, M wrote:

>

>> Since so little is known about the milder forms of

>> malaria and dengue, and since they are so notoriously

>> difficult to detect, I've wondered if these could also

>> be factors in CFS.

>

>I've wondered this too when many on the list said they do well on Flagyl.

Flagyl is an old malaria medication. Flagyl can be a very hard med to

tolerate for many, yet some CFSers feel better on

>it. I thought that was interesting.....

>

>Marcia

>

>>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

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Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

better!

patti

Sounds like a plan! CHristie

At 08:57 PM 12/27/99 -0700, you wrote:

>From: " Skari, M " <SkariPM@...>

>

>> > Since so little is known about the milder forms of

>> > malaria and dengue, and since they are so notoriously

>> > difficult to detect, I've wondered if these could also

>> > be factors in CFS.

>>

>> I've wondered this too when many on the list said they do

>> well on Flagyl. Flagyl is an old malaria medication. Flagyl

>> can be a very hard med to tolerate for many, yet some CFSers

>> feel better on

>> it. I thought that was interesting.....

>

>Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

>I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

>better!

>

>patti

>--

>

>>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

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Sorry to say that, but I do not know. The book I have (an old one) says

treat symptoms - which are various, mostly neurological.

Stania

>From: " Dr. Steve " <moores@...>

>

>what is the treatment for tick born E

..

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>Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

>I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

>better! >patti

>

this is mentioned as part of stratton's protocol

for chlamydia pneumoniae. not essential, but

might help, if i remember right. i think it is

without the gin, however.

nancym

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Message text written by INTERNET:onelist

>Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

better!

<

Interesting to bring this up. I knew someone who had a terrible back

injury

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Message text written by INTERNET:onelist

>Hmmm, wonder if PWCs do better on quinine? Maybe

I better pour myself a gin and tonic and see if I feel

better!

<

Interesting to bring this up. I knew someone who had a terrible back

injury

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