KATHRYN/OTHERS- SLEEP & GUT CONNECTION?.-INPUT PLEASE!!

[Guest guest]

Hi, and others- (long, but hopefully informative-might print

out to read!)

Good to have your feedback on the issues I raised.

Re: taking St. 's Wort and Elavil at the same time-might be

a problem. I was told not to take St. 's if I was taking

Prozac, which I believe is an SSRI-in the same family as Elavil,

but I'm not sure. You might call a compounding pharmacy in your

area and talk to the pharmacist about if it's OK to take the 2

together and let them know any other meds you're on as well.

If you don't know of a compounding pharmacy, I know of a couple and

they have 800#s for out of state customers.

I hope several people on the list will respond as to whether they

have sleep and gut problems and if they seem to be connected in

their experience in any way.

As to how I healed my gut:

1) First time was early on in my illness, when my doctor recommended

I take a particular brand of thick, liquid paramicrocidin(grapefruit

seed extract). He had me start out putting one drop in 4 oz. of

water I think, 3 times daily. It is very strong and can be caustic

to your throat if taken staight up, so you always dilute it and

then it actually supposedly has a healing effect on the intestinal

tract lining as well as killing fungus-like yeast in the gut.

I was to gradually work my way up to 4 drops in 4-6 oz. of water

3 times daily. After I had been on it for a few weeks, my gut

seemed to be less sensitive and I continued to see improvement

in the tenderness and sensitivity to foods, etc. over the 3 month

period I took it. As my gut healed, then as I stated my sleep

improved as well as my energy, stamina, infection-general health.

I have always been a night owl, even as a kid. Some have said that

this may suggest a deficiency in serotonin early on-not sure of

this, just read it somewhere. So my body naturally wants to go to

sleep late(as a kid 11 pm-1/2 am) and had difficulty waking up

early. Was sick alot as a kid with almost constant flues/viruses,

tonsilitis, etc. But after taking allergy shots for inhalant

allergies(not foods, etc.)starting in 3rd grade, my resistance

to infection improved significantly and I was pretty healthy

until mid-20's.

When I became ill, I continued to have problems going to sleep

at a normal time-usually not asleep until at least 1:30 am or

even 3-4 am. The difference was that as a kid, I slept very

deeply and soundly, even though my sleep cycle was skewed by

going to sleep too late and wanting to wake up later than

others usual wake up time.

When I took the " Paracan " (the liquid paramicrocidin)and my gut

began to heal, then I began to be able to go to sleep earlier

and wake up earlier than I had in years and I woke up feeling

pretty good. I think this may have been the first time in my life

that I went to sleep as early as I did then and was able to get

up fairly early with no adverse side effects.

Unfortunately, the doctor said after I'd used it for 3 months to

discontinue it. Very shortly therafter, my gut gradually worsened

as did my sleep,infections, etc. and my health went downhill to

about where I'd been before the gut healing.

2) 2nd time my gut seemed to heal was when a chiropracter that

worked alot with CFIDS type patients, told me I was very toxic

and needed to get rid of alot of this toxic load or I would get

much worse. He recommended a very reputable colonic therapist

(please don't just try this on your own. If person running the

therapy center doesn't keep the place and equipment they use

disinfected properly, etc.-it can cause you greater harm than good!).

This treatment is not for everyone, but it helped me at the time.

The doctor had the colonic therapist use tea tree oil in the first

part of the process to kill organisms and help detoxify colon.

Then at end of process, the therapist would add high quality

bifidus bacteria(beneficial bacteria that's necessary to start

more healthy flora in the gut). Again, my gut began to heal and

my health improved somewhat until the last colonic, the therapist

finished the procedure with acidophilus, instead of just plain

bifidus bacteria and my gut didn't respond well to this change.

But this process did seem to help me detoxify more quickly and

without as much stress on my systems, like my liver, because

the colonic directly removed toxins from colon itself.

So, again there was a fairly significant improvement until after

the acidophilus was used at the end of the colonic. Then my gut

wasn't as good as before the change in the colonic regimen.

After that, this particular therapist sold her practice and

I decided not to continue the therapy since I felt we'd done

enough for that period of time and needed to let body rest

and see how I'd feel. Again, my gut problems gradually worsened

and haven't found any other vehicles that healed it like those

2 times.

I have a friend with CFIDS/FM who has alot of gut symptoms and

problems and she said she had gotten alot of improvement with

a product made by " Naturade " called " Stomach Formula " . It comes

in liquid form. It's a concentrated aloe vera gel supplement with

FOS(food for the good bacteria to help them thrive) and a natural

herbal blend. Ingredients: organic aloe vera gel, FOS, proprietary

herbal blend: slippery elm bark, German Chamomile Flower, Marshmallow

Root, Borage Leaf, Peppermint Leaf, Pau d'Arco Bark,

Blessed Thistle Leaf, Ginger Root.

She said at first she had some

mild diarrhea, but after a few days this went away and her gut

began to feel better and the soreness in her abdomen improved as

well. Since it's concentrated, you mix 2 tablespoons of liquid

product with 2 oz. of water. She did this on an empty stomach 3

times daily(atleast an hr. after breakfast, lunch and dinner).

If after a few days you can seem to tolerate this on empty stomach,

you might try taking it right before you're about to eat 3 times

a day.

If you decided to try it, if your local health food

store doesn't have it, you could ask them if they could special

order a small bottle for you so you could try it for 2-4 weeks and

see if you improve. You refrigerate it after opening. I may try

this product myself since I have read elsewhere that aloe can have

a healing effect on the gut and many of these herbs I'm familiar

with. Some of them are soothing/healing to gut and at least one

of them can help kill yeast and other organisms(Pau d'Arco).

Any additional info. I come across, I'll definitely post since

I know alot of us have both sleep problems as well as gut problems.

Take care, , and everyone-God bless!

lkrahm@...(if you want to e-mail me directly with questions

or info. you have on the subjects we've been discussing).

> Hi ,

>

> I have printed your message so that I can re-read it when my brain

fog has

> lifted a bit.

>

> You mention several times, that you " healed your IBS symptoms " .

How did you do

> that? I am having a lot of gut problems, some days it's a struggle

to eat

> anything at all.

>

> A combination of elavil and Klonopin has helped me for sleep. But

I am

> intrigued by the your correlation of gut problems and poor sleep.

I know the

> same thing happens to me.

>

> If I eat rich foods or just too much food later on the in the day,

I wake up

> earlier and I think I wake up because of the nausea. Yet, later on

in the day

> is the only time I can eat much of anything.

>

> I also take a small dose of St. 's Wort. I'm wondering if my

IBS symptoms

> are worsened by taking it.

>

> I'd be very interested in any reponses you get from your post.

>

>

>

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: lkrahm@j... [mailto:lkrahm@j...]

> > > About 10 days after gradual weaning off Elavil and Prozac, my

> > sleep and gut totally wacked out. I had diarrhea daily and

couldn't

> > sleep at all. Tried switching to 5-HTP since it's a direct

precursor

> > to serotonin. This didn't help. After a while, I got very

sensitive

> > gut(like an IBS reaction)under control, but sleep was almost non-

> > existent for next 5-6 months. >

> > INTERESTING NOTE: Regarding the " gut " end of the problem:the 2

times

> > since I became ill when I was temporarily able to heal my gut and

it

> > began to function much more healthy manner, my sleep improved and

my

> > sleep cycle(circadian cycle) was more normal. I was able to get up

> > earlier in day without adverse side effects, and was able to go to

> > sleep earlier(at more normal time than usual)and my general health

> > improved alot.

> >

> > But when I stopped these successful gut treatments, then my

> > gut function gradually deteriorated AS DID MY SLEEP and rest of

> > general health. Maybe there's something to the research about the

> > key to proper serotonin function being extremely related to gut

> > issues, rather than brain function as much as I had thought

before!??

> >

> >

> > CONNECTION-POOR SLEEP, POOR GUT FUNCTION?? SEEMED TO BE LINKED

> > SOMEHOW. WHEN GUT IMPROVES SIGNIFICANTLY, MY SLEEP IMPROVED AS

> > WELL. WHEN MY SLEEP IMPROVED AT DIFFERENT TIME, MY GUT FUNCTION

> > IMPROVED. WHEN ONE OF THEM SIGNIFICANTLY WORSENS, THE OTHER SEEMS

> > TO WORSEN AS WELL!!??? ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THIS CONNECTION??

> >

> > > My suggestion is to do whatever it takes to get good, deep sleep

> > or you endanger yourself to acquiring new and more serious

problems

> > like I did(never had pneumonia or myco. before to my knowledge).

> >

> >> According to a book my " brain " doc suggested I read, a researcher

> > who's done research on the " second brain " -the gut-as he calls it-

has

> > 95% of serotonin receptors, the brain only a small percentage.

> > If this is true, since I've had major gut problems for years,

maybe

> > more of my sleep problem is from generalized/brain infections

along

> > with a poorly functioning gut. A gut that might prevent serotonin

from

> > being taken in and used properly if most of my 95% of serotonin

> > receptors in gut are malfunctioning in some way.

> >

> > Anything I learn about the serotonin/sleep issue, I'll post. I

know

> > so many of us have problems getting deep, restorative, regular

> > sleep.

> >

> > I will be consulting with brain doc and a very knowledgeable

naturo-

> > path who works with integrated medical center who treats alot of

> > CFIDS/ME and other infectious diseases in the next couple of

weeks.

> >

> > I'll let you know anything I learn from these consults.

> >

> >