Re: , Dana, Cindy, more info...

[Guest guest]

Ann, I don't have many answers for you but do think the enzymes are

going to help. I definately suggest you give them before snacks - we

were GFCF for about a year but I never tested the soy, corn issues

because I hated the thought of having to eliminate them too. Sure

enough, I gave enz. for everything, then tested with a GFCF

waffle without them - bingo - he reacted, big time. All my GFCF

waffles, pretzels, crackers, etc., have corn starch in them. He

needs an enzyme for all that. I have said before, the enzymes don't

help us with the phenols. So, before you decide the enz. aren't

working, be sure and elminate them as well as eggs to get a true

reading.

I have definately had those horrendous tantrum days. Try to get a

moment to yourself, cry and remember, it will get better because you

are doing wonderful things for him. When my son was 2-3, I had no

idea why things were so bad. At least you do. Keep up the fight!

Good luck, Diane

> to every snack, but his snacks are usually either GFCF pretzels, or

> wheat-free/dairy free Fig Newmans, so I wasn't that concerned.

> However, I am almost thinking that other things like corn and soy

may

> be more of a problem for Ben than the gluten and casein, so I do

> think I am going to try giving the enzymes prior to all eating.

>

> Now, here comes the fun poop talk! LOL! He has never had any

> digestive issues that we can tell. He has always been very

regular,

> but would have swings between harder and softer stools, with some

> minor changes in color, but I always felt it was normal stuff. He

> was never really constipated, and I can count on 1 hand the number

of

> times he's ever had diarrhea. With starting the enzymes, his

stools

> are consistently, let's say, smooth, not wet, but not really

formed.

> They have also lightened up in color considerably, and are much

more

> yellow than ever before. Does this mean anything to anyone?

>

> Also, according to the Great Plains Lab OAT testing, Ben does not

> have any yeast problems, or other metabolites. His test was

> essentially normal. I am considering a probiotic anyway, just to

be

> sure. Could this make a difference?

>

> Also, could the L-glutamine in the Pep be causing any reactions?

> With 50 mg per capsule, 3-4 caps a day, is that too much?

>

> , you mentioned that Devin addressed a pre-existing condition,

> what is it? I could not search the archives because I wasn't sure

> what to search for. Could you give me more information?

>

> Also, the hand flapping on the legs started right with the enzymes

> from day 1, and has been going on ever since (at least 3 weeks

now).

> It has not increased or decreased, but it is there everyday.

>

> I should probably note that he started an in-home therapy program

> provided through the state around the same time. They are doing

> mostly play therapy right now, because they are still establishing

> their relationship with Ben. He has therapy about 4 hours a day,

and

> for the most part seems to be enjoying it. They are working on his

> attending skills first, then will get into a more structured

program.

>

> I so want to believe that these enzymes can help Ben! His blood

> allergy work showed IgG antibodies to 28 foods, including all the

> gluten grains, corn, rice, soy, chicken, eggs, canola oil, all

kinds

> of fish, tomatoes, coconut, pineapple, among others. Eliminating

all

> of that would be near impossible for us, especially because he has

> such oral-sensory issues, and just flat out refuses anything that

is

> not what he is used to. Do you all think that if we ultimately

> decide that the enzymes are not working/helping, that an

elimination

> diet is still worth trying? Shouldn't the enzymes be doing

> essentially what an elimination diet would do? I am really

> struggling with this question. Also, I do think phenols are an

> issue, just to keep things interesting!

>

> The entire other thing is that it has been suggested to me by more

> than one doctor, INCLUDING the lab who did Ben's blood allergy work

> and our Natropathic Doctor, that these tests are not totally

> accurate. They said that I could eliminate all of these foods and

> have a completely different child, or I could eliminate all of

these

> foods and nothing would change. ly, I hate that as an

answer!

> It seems that is the answer to so many of these treatments,

> supplements, therapies, etc. Just once it would be nice for all of

> us if something helped ours kids across the board! I know you all

> understand.

>

> Thanks for the listening to my LONG rant. I'm having kind of a bad

> day. My very NT 2.5 year old threw the tantrum of his life this

> morning, and I am still recovering!!! Any and all advice/input

would

> be appreciated, as always.

>

> Ann

[Guest guest]

Ann, I do hope your day ends brighter than it started. Thanks for the

information. I have a couple of observations now.

First, the poop thing. It is very often true that babies who

breastfeed break down the milk more thoroughly than bottle-fed, and

that their poops are more un-formed, runny, and lighter more

yellowish in color. So, the enzymes might be doing quite a wonderful

job and what you are seeing is the result of more digestion and

nutrient absorption. You are saying that Ben has had one consistent

type of bms and now you are seeing another consistent, albeit

different, type of bm. If I this were my situation, I would add more

fiber at this point and see if that firms them up a bit.

Second, the test results. I have heard lots of people

getting " questionable " results. The number I hear is about 80%

accuracy. That was not persuasive enough for us to spend real money

on. However, with those test results and you suspicions, maybe try

the enzymes at every snack and see if that helps. That would help

with things like soy, corn, egg, etc. I hear often that people will

not see results on the GFCF diet until they remove soy and corn as

well, so the same principle might apply here. Try the enzymes with

snacks and let us know how it goes. I do much better on the days I

sip on an enzyme slurpee than on the days I just have enzymes with

meals only. I am not sure what is going on exactly, but this is the

pattern I have noticed.

Now, the hand-flapping. Three weeks sounds like awhile. Could you try

asking him not to do it? I am thinking if it is related to increased

awareness, it might be a comforting habit he is picking up. Maybe try

to steer it into a stim that is more socially acceptable. Does he

seem to do it compulsively and passionately, or is it more subtle?

Maybe your therapist would have some idea she could incorporate into

the therapy to switch it to something appropriate.

I will try to get you some links on the glutamine. It is considered

very beneficial for the most part, but some people have a definite

reaction to it.

Hope this helps.

.

[Guest guest]

Ann,

I just wanted to let you know, that we did Tom's OAT test from Great

Plains the same week we did the Comprehensive Stool Analysis from

Great Smokies. We got the results from the OAT first and there were

no problems with yeast or bad bacteria, and I thought, whew, at least

I don't have to worry about that. Guess what - the stool analysis

showed that Tom is a " yeast factory " (the dr.'s exact words). We

just started ridding those nasty little things this week.

I am sure this is not what you wanted to hear, but if your little guy

does have yeast, I know you will want to address it ASAP.

I'll echo the thought to try the enzymes with all meals and snacks

before you give up. We've been doing it for several weeks now, and

it's really no big deal anymore (and waaaay simpler than eliminating

lots of foods!) Good luck.

God Bless,

Sally

> Here's some follow up info. from my previous post about whether

> enzymes should be given prior to all eating...

>

> Ben does take 1 HN-ZYME Prime and 1 Peptizyde prior to each meal.

I

> open each capsule, and mix it with about 1/2 jar of baby food,

either

> pears, pears and apples, or, occassionally just applesauce. He

eats

> it right down without a fuss. So, I am assuming that it is in his

> system, ready to go when the meal comes.

>

> Like I said previously, I have not been giving him the enzymes

prior

> to every snack, but his snacks are usually either GFCF pretzels, or

> wheat-free/dairy free Fig Newmans, so I wasn't that concerned.

> However, I am almost thinking that other things like corn and soy

may

> be more of a problem for Ben than the gluten and casein, so I do

> think I am going to try giving the enzymes prior to all eating.

>

> Now, here comes the fun poop talk! LOL! He has never had any

> digestive issues that we can tell. He has always been very

regular,

> but would have swings between harder and softer stools, with some

> minor changes in color, but I always felt it was normal stuff. He

> was never really constipated, and I can count on 1 hand the number

of

> times he's ever had diarrhea. With starting the enzymes, his

stools

> are consistently, let's say, smooth, not wet, but not really

formed.

> They have also lightened up in color considerably, and are much

more

> yellow than ever before. Does this mean anything to anyone?

>

> Also, according to the Great Plains Lab OAT testing, Ben does not

> have any yeast problems, or other metabolites. His test was

> essentially normal. I am considering a probiotic anyway, just to

be

> sure. Could this make a difference?

>

> Also, could the L-glutamine in the Pep be causing any reactions?

> With 50 mg per capsule, 3-4 caps a day, is that too much?

>

> , you mentioned that Devin addressed a pre-existing condition,

> what is it? I could not search the archives because I wasn't sure

> what to search for. Could you give me more information?

>

> Also, the hand flapping on the legs started right with the enzymes

> from day 1, and has been going on ever since (at least 3 weeks

now).

> It has not increased or decreased, but it is there everyday.

>

> I should probably note that he started an in-home therapy program

> provided through the state around the same time. They are doing

> mostly play therapy right now, because they are still establishing

> their relationship with Ben. He has therapy about 4 hours a day,

and

> for the most part seems to be enjoying it. They are working on his

> attending skills first, then will get into a more structured

program.

>

> I so want to believe that these enzymes can help Ben! His blood

> allergy work showed IgG antibodies to 28 foods, including all the

> gluten grains, corn, rice, soy, chicken, eggs, canola oil, all

kinds

> of fish, tomatoes, coconut, pineapple, among others. Eliminating

all

> of that would be near impossible for us, especially because he has

> such oral-sensory issues, and just flat out refuses anything that

is

> not what he is used to. Do you all think that if we ultimately

> decide that the enzymes are not working/helping, that an

elimination

> diet is still worth trying? Shouldn't the enzymes be doing

> essentially what an elimination diet would do? I am really

> struggling with this question. Also, I do think phenols are an

> issue, just to keep things interesting!

>

> The entire other thing is that it has been suggested to me by more

> than one doctor, INCLUDING the lab who did Ben's blood allergy work

> and our Natropathic Doctor, that these tests are not totally

> accurate. They said that I could eliminate all of these foods and

> have a completely different child, or I could eliminate all of

these

> foods and nothing would change. ly, I hate that as an

answer!

> It seems that is the answer to so many of these treatments,

> supplements, therapies, etc. Just once it would be nice for all of

> us if something helped ours kids across the board! I know you all

> understand.

>

> Thanks for the listening to my LONG rant. I'm having kind of a bad

> day. My very NT 2.5 year old threw the tantrum of his life this

> morning, and I am still recovering!!! Any and all advice/input

would

> be appreciated, as always.

>

> Ann

[Guest guest]

> Like I said previously, I have not been giving him the enzymes prior

> to every snack, but his snacks are usually either GFCF pretzels, or

> wheat-free/dairy free Fig Newmans, so I wasn't that concerned.

> However, I am almost thinking that other things like corn and soy

may

> be more of a problem for Ben than the gluten and casein, so I do

> think I am going to try giving the enzymes prior to all eating.

My son does have more issues with certain other foods than he does

with gluten/casein. For example, if I give him a small wheat cracker,

he will have a problem, but if I give him one red grape, he will have

a LARGE problem.

>

> Now, here comes the fun poop talk! LOL! He has never had any

> digestive issues that we can tell. He has always been very regular,

> but would have swings between harder and softer stools, with some

> minor changes in color, but I always felt it was normal stuff. He

> was never really constipated, and I can count on 1 hand the number

of

> times he's ever had diarrhea. With starting the enzymes, his stools

> are consistently, let's say, smooth, not wet, but not really formed.

> They have also lightened up in color considerably, and are much more

> yellow than ever before. Does this mean anything to anyone?

Right now my son sounds a little like this. I give enzymes before

eating ANYTHING, and some days he has a nice formed bm, and other days

it is very mushy and sometimes even runny. And generally when they

are mushy they are also lighter and more yellow in color. The enzymes

do not help him with everything for the bm issue, but right now I am

working on the behavior/language/social issue. In general I am

suspicious if his bm is not formed, but it is very strange and I have

not yet figured it out, that he can have a very messy bm but

sometimes that does not seem to affect his behavior or other issues.

But yes I can relate to what you say here, but sorry I don't know yet

the reason.

>

> Also, according to the Great Plains Lab OAT testing, Ben does not

> have any yeast problems, or other metabolites. His test was

> essentially normal. I am considering a probiotic anyway, just to be

> sure. Could this make a difference?

I don't know about this question. My son does not appear to have a

yeast problem, but then I am not sure, I have never had him tested.

But when I try yeast things, I do not notice anything unusual or

different. However, I will mention that my son reacts to every

probiotic I have ever tried with him, even with the enzymes. And I

tried the Multidophilus myself for a few days, I have NEVER had

headaches so bad as when I was taking that stuff. So if you do try a

probiotic, be careful and watch to see if your son tolerates it.

>

> Also, could the L-glutamine in the Pep be causing any reactions?

> With 50 mg per capsule, 3-4 caps a day, is that too much?

I have heard that some people are sensitive to this, but I don't know

what would be considered " too much " .

> Also, the hand flapping on the legs started right with the enzymes

> from day 1, and has been going on ever since (at least 3 weeks now).

> It has not increased or decreased, but it is there everyday.

I don't remember your previous message about this, but my son would

rub his arms and legs and say " owwie " when we first started the

enzymes. After 3-4 days he stopped doing this. I thought at first it

was a reaction to the enzyme, but when it stopped I realized he was

actually having a reaction to one of the 7 foods I thought were safe

for him, and because he is so INsensitive, it was actually typical

sensitivity returning for him, and it felt strange to him so he would

rub himself and say that. If I was giving my son snacks without

enzymes, he would probably continue to have this behavior, so that is

what I would suspect if your son is like mine.

> I so want to believe that these enzymes can help Ben! His blood

> allergy work showed IgG antibodies to 28 foods, including all the

> gluten grains, corn, rice, soy, chicken, eggs, canola oil, all kinds

> of fish, tomatoes, coconut, pineapple, among others. Eliminating

all

> of that would be near impossible for us, especially because he has

> such oral-sensory issues, and just flat out refuses anything that is

> not what he is used to. Do you all think that if we ultimately

> decide that the enzymes are not working/helping, that an elimination

> diet is still worth trying? Shouldn't the enzymes be doing

> essentially what an elimination diet would do? I am really

> struggling with this question. Also, I do think phenols are an

> issue, just to keep things interesting!

I have found these enzymes do not work for my son for all foods, but

they do for many. You are right, my son also reacts to basically

everything also, and limiting his diet to 7 foods for the past few

months has NOT been fun, it is very nice to have other foods to give

him. However, I would say that perhaps your son is again similar to

mine, that the enzymes do not work for all foods for him. So what I

did is give my son the enzymes with the 7 foods for 2-3 days, then I

started adding back foods one at a time, to see how he reacts. It

seems he still cannot have any fruits [or other highly phenolic foods]

but I am currently experimenting with a few things for that. But

anyway, bottom line, the elimination diet would still be good to

figure out which foods the enzymes do not help with your child.

>

> The entire other thing is that it has been suggested to me by more

> than one doctor, INCLUDING the lab who did Ben's blood allergy work

> and our Natropathic Doctor, that these tests are not totally

> accurate. They said that I could eliminate all of these foods and

> have a completely different child, or I could eliminate all of these

> foods and nothing would change. ly, I hate that as an answer!

I have heard that these tests are about 80% accurate, which is why I

did not spend the money on them. But I think my trial and error

method was much more frustrating and time-consuming than having a

benchmark to at least start with, to give you information at the

beginning.

> It seems that is the answer to so many of these treatments,

> supplements, therapies, etc. Just once it would be nice for all of

> us if something helped ours kids across the board! I know you all

> understand.

Yes, but every individual is unique. And if there was just one thing

that would help all autistic children, everyone would know about it

already. That is why there are so many questions and disagreements

etc, because each child is different, so there is not one gene or one

vaccine or one food or one therapy etc, because each individual

handles things and reacts to things in an individual manner. I don't

know if that made sense.

>

> Thanks for the listening to my LONG rant. I'm having kind of a bad

> day. My very NT 2.5 year old threw the tantrum of his life this

> morning, and I am still recovering!!! Any and all advice/input

would

> be appreciated, as always.

>

> Ann

Well I hope that helped.

Dana

[Guest guest]

<< His blood

allergy work showed IgG antibodies to 28 foods, including all the

gluten grains, corn, rice, soy, chicken, eggs, canola oil, all kinds

of fish, tomatoes, coconut, pineapple, among others.>>

My understanding is that the enzymes don't help with IgG food

allergies. They help with digestion. I know that leaky gut can

contribute to the IgG food allergies. So, in the end, products that

help heal the gut contribute to helping alleviate the allergies. But I

don't think that taking an enzyme has the same effect as elminating an

allergenic food.

My sons' doctor recommends completely eliminating all foods scoring 2 or

higher from the child's diet. Then, the foods that scored a 1 can be

eaten 1-2 times per week.

Jody

mom to 4.10 and 2.7

[Guest guest]

Ann wrote:

> However, I am almost thinking that other things like corn and soy

may

> be more of a problem for Ben than the gluten and casein, so I do

> think I am going to try giving the enzymes prior to all eating.

>

Soy can cause the same types of reactions that gluten and casein do.

So yes, it would make sense to give the enzymes before giving the soy.

(Cary, NC)

persistentC@...

http://www.rtphome.org/mariposa/