Re: coming out with a secret fear - mental illness

[Guest guest]

good news

depression can not be determined by any medical test since they

can't detect or measure it. worse, they really can't physiologically

define it.

anxiety is another one of those conjured up medical terms and is in

the same boat as depression

" mental illness " group are mostly being left to twist in the wind ...

.... they are truly fourth class citizens ... autism etc

for the doctors who want to attack your character or who have been

indoctrinated by the medical system, these unprovable things are what

they will throw at you

you mentioned that you believe you MAY have them. well, in a village

where the witch doctor diagnoses evil spirits, many in the village

will accept evil spirits as real since they have been brought up to

express what they have in those terms because of culture. others in

the village will think the witch doctor is full of crap.

culture is the most intense type of mind control and indoctrination.

it is not an easy thing to shake off but you must try.

Fluffy

> Now please dont get upset with me. Even though I have tested

positive for

> reactivated HHV6 in my blood and spinal fluid, and even though I am

seeing

> one of the top CFS docs in the country and he thinks that my

problem is not

> primarily psyciatric, and even though before CFS I was relatively

healthy and

> active, I still harbor a secret fear that all of my CFS symptoms

are

> psychically generated. I have and always have had a propensity for

depression

> and anxiety. I definitely have some " issues " that affected me prior

to CFS,

> probably just your standard Woody -esque neurosis de jeur.

>

> Now understand something; this would not scare me if there were an

effective

> way to eliminate the symptoms. I would gladly - HEAR ME - GLADLY!!!

jump on a

> psychogenic bandwagon if it meant that I could resolve this

syndrome. But for

> all their talk about psychological causes, the " psychosomatic " CFS

camp is

> pretty much just as short on solutions as the bio camp.

>

> I have seen psychiatrists and taken antidepressants. Sometimes, the

drugs

> have helped my depression. But never have they touched my CFS

(except for

> three weeks when Wellbutrin seemed to cure me - placebo?).

>

> How do victims of somatization disorder get better? Do they get

better? Does

> anyone else on this list harbor similar thoughts? You can email me

personally

> if you dont care to bring this out on the list. But this is a fear

I cannot

> deny.

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

I don't think the possibility that CFS may be a mental illness should be a

fear; I like to regard it as a hope.. There is a heck of a lot more NIH

funding for mental illness research than for research on physical causes of

CFS, and mental illness drugs are far more advanced than autoimmunne

disease drugs. And I bet the big drug companies would have an excellent

therapies for CFS approved in nothing flat if our disease was mental..

But mental or physical cause, whichever, no big NIH research money is going

to be allocated, nor is any big drug company going to pay CFS any attention

until the trivializing name of the disease is changed.. To the outside

world, our having a little fatigue, in a chronic syndrome form, is no big

deal... We are just a bunch of lazy slackers and malingerers to them. In

fact, one of the old names for CFS was Malingerer's Disease.. At least that

name had the word Disease in it!

Isn't it strange how we all changed from hard-working superachievers to

goof-offs almost overnight? Hey world, there isn't a single goof-off with

CFS - it is impossible for lazy people to catch this disease.

Science, bring on a good rationale for CFS being solidly mental and prove

it... I'll take that any day over the disorganized symptom and cause mess

we have now.. Mental would even get us an accurate and serious name for

the disease! Ah, Paranoia, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Schizophrenia,

Disthymia, Idiopathic Depression, Epilepsy (whoops, guess that is now

regarded as physical), even plain old Depression; now there are some names

that get some real research money and better and better drugs...

Mort Caldwell

CFS since 1994

----------

From: patrickmm4@...[sMTP:patrickmm4@...]

Reply egroups

Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 12:12 AM

egroups

Subject: coming out with a secret fear - mental

illness

Now please dont get upset with me. Even though I have tested positive for

reactivated HHV6 in my blood and spinal fluid, and even though I am seeing

one of the top CFS docs in the country and he thinks that my problem is not

primarily psyciatric, and even though before CFS I was relatively healthy

and

active, I still harbor a secret fear that all of my CFS symptoms are

psychically generated. I have and always have had a propensity for

depression

and anxiety. I definitely have some " issues " that affected me prior to CFS,

probably just your standard Woody -esque neurosis de jeur.

Now understand something; this would not scare me if there were an

effective

way to eliminate the symptoms. I would gladly - HEAR ME - GLADLY!!! jump on

a

psychogenic bandwagon if it meant that I could resolve this syndrome. But

for

all their talk about psychological causes, the " psychosomatic " CFS camp is

pretty much just as short on solutions as the bio camp.

I have seen psychiatrists and taken antidepressants. Sometimes, the drugs

have helped my depression. But never have they touched my CFS (except for

three weeks when Wellbutrin seemed to cure me - placebo?).

How do victims of somatization disorder get better? Do they get better?

Does

anyone else on this list harbor similar thoughts? You can email me

personally

if you dont care to bring this out on the list. But this is a fear I cannot

deny.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

untrue

if the blood flow seems not to normal

then all one can say without further information is that it is not

normal.

in determine a cause. saying it is depression is as nebulous

as saying it is evil spirits

so if an infection is causing your blood flow to diminish and you

feel depressed, do you have an infection or depression ?

and what happens if the technology isn't available to determine

whether you have a certain infection ?

Demitrack and Strauss tried to prove " CFS " people were depressed

with NIH funding by measuring the i think cortisol ... they concluded

depression even if the cortisols levels were up, down or in between

the NIH doesn't have such technology either

Fluffy

> > > Now please dont get upset with me. Even though I have tested

> > positive for

> > > reactivated HHV6 in my blood and spinal fluid, and even though

I am

> > seeing

> > > one of the top CFS docs in the country and he thinks that my

> > problem is not

> > > primarily psyciatric, and even though before CFS I was

relatively

> > healthy and

> > > active, I still harbor a secret fear that all of my CFS symptoms

> > are

> > > psychically generated. I have and always have had a propensity

for

> > depression

> > > and anxiety. I definitely have some " issues " that affected me

prior

> > to CFS,

> > > probably just your standard Woody -esque neurosis de jeur.

> > >

> > > Now understand something; this would not scare me if there were

an

> > effective

> > > way to eliminate the symptoms. I would gladly - HEAR ME -

GLADLY!!!

> > jump on a

> > > psychogenic bandwagon if it meant that I could resolve this

> > syndrome. But for

> > > all their talk about psychological causes, the " psychosomatic "

CFS

> > camp is

> > > pretty much just as short on solutions as the bio camp.

> > >

> > > I have seen psychiatrists and taken antidepressants. Sometimes,

the

> > drugs

> > > have helped my depression. But never have they touched my CFS

> > (except for

> > > three weeks when Wellbutrin seemed to cure me - placebo?).

> > >

> > > How do victims of somatization disorder get better? Do they get

> > better? Does

> > > anyone else on this list harbor similar thoughts? You can email

me

> > personally

> > > if you dont care to bring this out on the list. But this is a

fear

> > I cannot

> > > deny.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

patrickmm4@... wrote:

> ...I still harbor a secret fear that all of my CFS symptoms are

> psychically generated. I have and always have had a propensity for

> depression and anxiety. I definitely have some " issues " that affected

> me prior to CFS, probably just your standard Woody -esque

> neurosis de jeur.

>

> How do victims of somatization disorder get better? Do they get

> better? Does anyone else on this list harbor similar thoughts? You can

> email me personally if you dont care to bring this out on the list.

> But this is a fear I cannot deny.

The dx " somatization disorder " tends to raise my hackles, ! But

I know what you're talking about. Rest assured, if you're like most of

us, some of your CFS symptoms are physical, and some are psychological

(as a result of dealing with a chronic, invisible illness).

The treatment for somatization disorder is to get all the buried,

suppressed, rejected emotions out in the open and discuss them with

another human being. I've had better luck with psychologists than

psychiatrists, myself. But doing journalling (either verbal or drawing)

and talking things over with a good friend can work just as well.

I think everyone has had the experience of getting a headache,

tummyache, neckache, back spasm, or whatever when they are emotionally

stressed and trying to suppress all awareness of the problem. It can be

really amazing when you get a chance to talk about things, bring up the

monsters lurking in the black shadows into the light of day, have a good

cry, and then a good laugh. I've had intense, throbbing, sickening

migraines disappear on the spot during a good therapy session. But this

doesn't mean that all my migraines are caused by suppressed emotions.

The emotional " stuff " is like an overlay on the physical symptoms, and

it's worth while trying to peel off that layer if only to lighten our

overall load!

When I suspect that I may be causing some of my symptoms (or unnecessary

emotional distress) by my thought patterns, I go immediately to

something like Albert Ellis' Rational Emotive Therapy, or Burns'

" Feeling Good " book, and do some writing. Listing one's beliefs and

fears, and then analyzing how accurate they are and coming up with

rebuttals for them is very empowering. Doing this, I free myself from

the added burden of fearing that I'm a hypochondriac, etc., which

enables me to better deal with the simple physical facts of this

illness.

Buddhist meditation practices can help with this, as well. Detaching

from one's thoughts, and learning to treat oneself with compassion can

go a long way.

One of my favorite Buddhist quotes: " Pain is inevitable; suffering is

optional. " My personal belief is that it's always worthwhile to work on

reducing the suffering (additional unnecessary distress we cause

ourselves by how we react to and what we tell ourselves about our

condition). Just getting some validation from a doctor or therapist

that you really are physically sick or disabled, and need to learn to be

compassionate with yourself about that, might be enough. If not, try

some of the things I suggested and let me know how they work for you.

Hugs,

--

el - andrea@...

(IFF " FNORD " appears - remove it from my email address to reply)

" ...wake now! Discover that you are the song that the morning brings... "

[Guest guest]

> What I meant is that in most cases of depressing there is a

difference in

> blood flow between the two sidesof the brain, that's all. As for

CFS, after

all i meant to say was, how do you prove that differences in blood

flow between the two sides of the brain is not caused by some hard to

detect infection ... depression is not a cause but just a feeling or

symptom in which the patient expresses their ills

Fluffy