Guest guest Posted August 14, 2000 Report Share Posted August 14, 2000 There is also a likelyhood they could die from the treatment Remember, HIV by itself does not cause AIDS government statistics on AIDS = many different diseases HIV only equals relatively healthy AIDS = HHV6a + HIV Karposi Sarcoma AIDS patients may likely have had it's roots in the 1970's innoculation ... AIDS = HHV8 + HIV + ... essentially a form of genocide or experiments conducted against the gays by the government The first medical team assembled by the UN to identify the source of the HIV in Africa came back with the answer - it was the innoculations ... they promptly were fired ... the innoculations records mysteriously dissappeared from the Belgium Foreign Ministry also there may have also been different types of HIV involved statistically, AIDS is a gay and black disease where ever the dust finally settles on the AIDS question, one thing is likely certain ... the government is hiding a closet full of bones and covering up a lot of things behind the mantra of national security we are just " acceptable collateral damage " to the government the government is impeding scientific research into certain pathogens hence their strategy is to delay delay delay until we die Agent orange people have twisted in the wind for 30 years and we will too if we blindly allow the patient organizations to assist the government in it's plans Fluffy > This is a wierd thought. Probably not too original, and maybe a little > warped, but.... I was walking down the street on Saturday with a friend of > mine. I live in San Francisco, arguably the AIDS capital of the US, at least > in terms of doctors and treatments and services and stuff. I think somewhere > around 30-50% of the gay male population in SF is HIV positive. Anyway, I was > thinking about this - what would happen if someone had CFS, and just > struggled and struggled and struggled, and no treatment helped at all. And > then they became HIV positive. Suddenly, doctors are actually concerned about > thier symptoms, and their bloodwork and stuff. They then get doused with the > arsenal of HIV meds, protease inhibitors all that stuff. > > Wouldnt it be interesting if their CFS symptoms then vanished? Now don't get > me wrong I'm not planning on running out and getting infected with HIV, but > it was just a curious thought. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 - Oh, your thought is not so weird - from the attention, and positive results, Ampligen is getting from AIDS victims, Ampligen will probably be FDA approved for AIDS long before it is approved (if ever) for CFS... So if we want our local hospital to be enabled to administer Ampligen to cure our CFS, we may indeed have to go " running out " and get AIDS... Problem is, I'm not gay, and don't think you are either, nor are most CFS patients, so guess we will have to find an AIDS patient who is willing to give us a blood drop or two.. Then PWCs can get AIDS-approved Ampligen, which will knock both diseases.. But let's first wait for Ampligen to be approved for AIDS...probably in less than a year.. Maybe in 15 years it might be approved for CFS - dream on.. In the meantime, most PWCs live a " life " similar to AIDS victims in the last two months before their death.. Maybe a few hundred thousand letters from PWCs to their US Senators and Reps, and to Donna Shalala, about Ampligen and CFS might get us some action.. Too bad we don't have the energy to demonstrate in DC like the AIDS people do so effectively.. That is why the NIH research budget for AIDS is more than $2 billion per year and CFS is $ 8 million/year. Or to use millions, AIDS gets $2,000 million/year and CFS gets $8 million/year.. Lots more CFS victims than AIDS victims, with probably about 10X the economic loss to the country.. Sorry I don't have the AIDS case numbers at hand and am too weak to look it up.. But there are at least a million USA PWCs, maybe approx. 5 million if all the undiagnosed cases are included.. But CFS is not fatal...Is that correct??? Bet the USA has more CFS suicides/year than AIDS deaths. How prematurely do we die from other causes? Where is our promised CFS CDC patient registry startup in year 2000??? This was supposed to shed some light on our death rate and causes.. Guess its being worked on with the same haste as the disease name change.... Write Congress! Mort Caldwell Biomedical Engineer - CFS since 1994 and at about 10% functionality today.. ---------- From: patrickmm4@...[sMTP:patrickmm4@...] Reply egroups Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 12:28 AM egroups Subject: AIDS and CFS This is a wierd thought. Probably not too original, and maybe a little warped, but.... I was walking down the street on Saturday with a friend of mine. I live in San Francisco, arguably the AIDS capital of the US, at least in terms of doctors and treatments and services and stuff. I think somewhere around 30-50% of the gay male population in SF is HIV positive. Anyway, I was thinking about this - what would happen if someone had CFS, and just struggled and struggled and struggled, and no treatment helped at all. And then they became HIV positive. Suddenly, doctors are actually concerned about thier symptoms, and their bloodwork and stuff. They then get doused with the arsenal of HIV meds, protease inhibitors all that stuff. Wouldnt it be interesting if their CFS symptoms then vanished? Now don't get me wrong I'm not planning on running out and getting infected with HIV, but it was just a curious thought. This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 > > The first medical team assembled by the UN to identify the source of > the HIV in Africa came back with the answer - it was the > innoculations ... they promptly were fired ... the innoculations > records mysteriously dissappeared from the Belgium Foreign Ministry > also There is also evidence that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases. www.thinktwice.com I can understand a cover-up, but I don't necessarily think it was intentional genocide, not that that doesn't occur. We are killing ourselves here in the U.S. with an epidemic of heart disease, cancer, etc, diseases that were rare a hundred years ago, but you don't need a conspiracy theory to explain that. In the US the factors are the man-made toxicity and mal nutrition from food processing and soil depletion. African leaders are saying it is malnutrition and also the toxic vaccines. The reason this is called AIDS is because people test HIV positive, which is totally meaningless and has no clear correlation with AIDS or disease in general. At the recent AIDS conference in South Africa, African leaders publically rejected the idea that AIDS is viral, with plenty of research to cite. Of course, viral theory proponents are totally dogmatic and have not listened to this despite objections from the beginning and including from nobel prize winning scientists. I think the really radical position is to stop blaming nature in the form of microorganisms and then going to war against nature with drugs, but to instead recognize the roles of the toxic environment, medicine and dentistry. > > there may have also been different types of HIV involved > > statistically, AIDS is a gay and black disease > > where ever the dust finally settles on the AIDS question, one thing > is likely certain ... the government is hiding a closet full of bones > and covering up a lot of things behind the mantra of national security > > we are just " acceptable collateral damage " to the government > > the government is impeding scientific research into certain pathogens > > hence their strategy is to delay delay delay until we die > > Agent orange people have twisted in the wind for 30 years and we will > too if we blindly allow the patient organizations to assist the > government in it's plans > > > Fluffy > > > > This is a wierd thought. Probably not too original, and maybe a > little > > warped, but.... I was walking down the street on Saturday with a > friend of > > mine. I live in San Francisco, arguably the AIDS capital of the US, > at least > > in terms of doctors and treatments and services and stuff. I think > somewhere > > around 30-50% of the gay male population in SF is HIV positive. > Anyway, I was > > thinking about this - what would happen if someone had CFS, and > just > > struggled and struggled and struggled, and no treatment helped at > all. And > > then they became HIV positive. Suddenly, doctors are actually > concerned about > > thier symptoms, and their bloodwork and stuff. They then get doused > with the > > arsenal of HIV meds, protease inhibitors all that stuff. > > > > Wouldnt it be interesting if their CFS symptoms then vanished? Now > don't get > > me wrong I'm not planning on running out and getting infected with > HIV, but > > it was just a curious thought. > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 Dear Mort: I remember reading somewhere a while ago that we are at higher risk for about 5 different types of cancer, especially lymphomas. The Forum newsletter often displays brief obituaries in the back and an awful lot of the notices indicate that the PWC's died of lymphoma caused by CFS. I know that stroke and heart attack risk is also greatly increased; I've already had at least one stroke. Dr. Cheney believes it was caused by too high blood alkalinity or alkalosis which causes arteriies to spasm. Steve Bullock AIDS and CFS > > This is a wierd thought. Probably not too original, and maybe a little > warped, but.... I was walking down the street on Saturday with a friend of > mine. I live in San Francisco, arguably the AIDS capital of the US, at > least > in terms of doctors and treatments and services and stuff. I think > somewhere > around 30-50% of the gay male population in SF is HIV positive. Anyway, I > was > thinking about this - what would happen if someone had CFS, and just > struggled and struggled and struggled, and no treatment helped at all. And > then they became HIV positive. Suddenly, doctors are actually concerned > about > thier symptoms, and their bloodwork and stuff. They then get doused with > the > arsenal of HIV meds, protease inhibitors all that stuff. > > Wouldnt it be interesting if their CFS symptoms then vanished? Now don't > get > me wrong I'm not planning on running out and getting infected with HIV, but > it was just a curious thought. > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 I think both conditions can be caused by CFS and both can cause strokes or heart attacks. Steve Bullock Re: AIDS and CFS > I thought hypercoagulation was a far better explanation for stroke and heart attack in CFIDS patients! Anyone knows Dr. Cheney's opinion on Berg's work? > > M Lassesen, M.S. > ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB " > cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/ KenL@... > Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970 Fax 520 832.6836 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: R. Bullock > I know > that stroke and heart attack risk is also greatly increased; I've already > had at least one stroke. Dr. Cheney believes it was caused by too high > blood alkalinity or alkalosis which causes arteriies to spasm. Steve > Bullock > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 I thought hypercoagulation was a far better explanation for stroke and heart attack in CFIDS patients! Anyone knows Dr. Cheney's opinion on Berg's work? M Lassesen, M.S. ex " Dr.Gui (MSDN) " , " Dr. VB " cv: http://www.folkarts.com/kenl/ KenL@... Phone: 360 297.4717 Cell: 360 509.8970 Fax 520 832.6836 ----- Original Message ----- From: R. Bullock I know that stroke and heart attack risk is also greatly increased; I've already had at least one stroke. Dr. Cheney believes it was caused by too high blood alkalinity or alkalosis which causes arteriies to spasm. Steve Bullock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 Why do we get more lymphomas? I know that's true of some other autoimmune diseases, such as sjogrens, at least primary sjogrens, but why PWC? Also what other cancers do we get? By the way, I just had a brain scan and was told that my brainwaves are depressed like many PWC's. I'm doing neurotherapy to improve brain function, anyone know about this for PWC? Also was tested for blood flow to the brain and at least that was still normal, this after a year of being ill. Judy AIDS and CFS > > > > This is a wierd thought. Probably not too original, and maybe a little > > warped, but.... I was walking down the street on Saturday with a friend of > > mine. I live in San Francisco, arguably the AIDS capital of the US, at > > least > > in terms of doctors and treatments and services and stuff. I think > > somewhere > > around 30-50% of the gay male population in SF is HIV positive. Anyway, I > > was > > thinking about this - what would happen if someone had CFS, and just > > struggled and struggled and struggled, and no treatment helped at all. And > > then they became HIV positive. Suddenly, doctors are actually concerned > > about > > thier symptoms, and their bloodwork and stuff. They then get doused with > > the > > arsenal of HIV meds, protease inhibitors all that stuff. > > > > Wouldnt it be interesting if their CFS symptoms then vanished? Now don't > > get > > me wrong I'm not planning on running out and getting infected with HIV, > but > > it was just a curious thought. > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 ok you guys are really freaking me out here. All this talk, it just makes me even more paranoid, more distrusting of anything and everyone medical, and more into that " oh my god my toothpaste is causing my CFIDS " mentality that I despise (for myself). It's one thing to be chronically ill, but what I wouldnt give to be chronically ill with a disease that was at least a little less controversial. Ok, I know I started it with all my talk about AIDS, so I guess I'll have to take care of my anxiety attack on my own. ...... breathing into a paper bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 Actually, reading this momentarily makes me think " why bother? the deck is so very much stacked against us, improvement and recovery are not romotely possible " . How can we even get up in the morning and face the day if these conspiracy theories are actually truth? << Message: 24 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 04:30:36 -0000 From: prioris@... Subject: Re: AIDS and CFS You probably haven't heard but the first group of people with a few exceptions faired poorly of ampligen. as i remember, some even committed suicide later on. Hemispherix blatantly lied about the patients in that study. I think one can try ampligen or anything but one must go in to it with their eyes wide open I hope Hemispherix goes out of business and the President get's a severe case of ME and treated with ampligen. The HIV positive patients are worse off than we are as far as medical treatment. It has cost many their lives. I dread the day when the big pharmeceuticals get involved in ME since they usually are involved with biological weapons research. There will be a conflict of interest. Should they protect the " national security " or search for real treatments. The PWME will not fare well in such a conflict. Are the MS or other " auto-immune " people any better People who think that involvement by the pharceuticals will improve our plight are deluding themselves. Also remember that 17 billion has been flushed down the toilet on AIDS ... When you decide on treatment in such an environment, who you trust is a key question whether it is a company or individual. on a local level, should one trust this group for advice or the average MD (medical dumbass) I think the people in this group and a few others are way ahead of the pack in terms of treatments Fluffy >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 > I can understand a cover-up, but I don't necessarily think it was > intentional genocide, not that that doesn't occur. We are killing any black operations program which involves human experimentation is intentional violence. there is no accountability since black operation programs are above the law the mindset in the security agencies never looked too kindly on the blacks and gays ... also it is more politically safe to carry out experimentation against politically weak groups since people will care less there is evidence that they have carried out such things but what is known is just the tip of the iceberg even when the mkultra program got exposed, congress had no problems with the CIA destroying all the records of it's victims. most people are indifferent unless they become victims. > that were rare a hundred years ago, but you don't need a conspiracy theory > to explain that. In the US the factors are the man-made toxicity and mal conspiracies and biological warfare go hand in hand in massachusetts, a town was named after a guy name amherst this guy who was a doctor, gave infected and disease ladened blankets to the indians remember that the indian population was killed mostly by disease targeting groups with biological weapons seems like the ideal way to carry out a violent assault since determining the cause can be technologically difficult and almost impossible if the government is involved. if they kill you ... you and your loves ones would probably never really know. prosecution of such acts will never occur since the law enforcement and prosecutors at the highest level are usually involved in the coverups of such crimes. > At the recent AIDS conference in South Africa, African leaders publically > rejected the idea that AIDS is viral, with plenty of research to cite. Of > course, viral theory proponents are totally dogmatic and have not listened > to this despite objections from the beginning and including from nobel prize > winning scientists. they are trying to bribe the african leaders with huge sums of money to put their populations at risk for AIDS treatments they don't need i have heard the toxic theory but it seems to be based on the presence of HIV antibodies after exposure. they have hung on to their theories for a long time and have never seemed to take in new ideas. this is being dogmatic. > > I think the really radical position is to stop blaming nature in the form of > microorganisms and then going to war against nature with drugs, but to > instead recognize the roles of the toxic environment, medicine and > dentistry. > > when a researcher uncovered that combining herbides etc created very powerful toxics, he eventually lost his government job and was unemployed for at least a year or more after that i call what happened to that researcher a " criminal " conspiracy conspiracies are a normal every day occurance on this planet In acts against humanity, conspiracies are usually the rule. Does the government know why many PWME are sick ? I think they do. Fluffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 You probably haven't heard but the first group of people with a few exceptions faired poorly of ampligen. as i remember, some even committed suicide later on. Hemispherix blatantly lied about the patients in that study. I think one can try ampligen or anything but one must go in to it with their eyes wide open I hope Hemispherix goes out of business and the President get's a severe case of ME and treated with ampligen. The HIV positive patients are worse off than we are as far as medical treatment. It has cost many their lives. I dread the day when the big pharmeceuticals get involved in ME since they usually are involved with biological weapons research. There will be a conflict of interest. Should they protect the " national security " or search for real treatments. The PWME will not fare well in such a conflict. Are the MS or other " auto-immune " people any better People who think that involvement by the pharceuticals will improve our plight are deluding themselves. Also remember that 17 billion has been flushed down the toilet on AIDS ... When you decide on treatment in such an environment, who you trust is a key question whether it is a company or individual. on a local level, should one trust this group for advice or the average MD (medical dumbass) I think the people in this group and a few others are way ahead of the pack in terms of treatments Fluffy > - > > Oh, your thought is not so weird - from the attention, and positive > results, Ampligen is getting from AIDS victims, Ampligen will probably be > FDA approved for AIDS long before it is approved (if ever) for CFS... So > if we want our local hospital to be enabled to administer Ampligen to cure > our CFS, we may indeed have to go " running out " and get AIDS... Problem is, > I'm not gay, and don't think you are either, nor are most CFS patients, so > guess we will have to find an AIDS patient who is willing to give us a > blood drop or two.. Then PWCs can get AIDS-approved Ampligen, which will > knock both diseases.. But let's first wait for Ampligen to be approved for > AIDS...probably in less than a year.. Maybe in 15 years it might be > approved for CFS - dream on.. In the meantime, most PWCs live a " life " > similar to AIDS victims in the last two months before their death.. > > Maybe a few hundred thousand letters from PWCs to their US Senators and > Reps, and to Donna Shalala, about Ampligen and CFS might get us some > action.. Too bad we don't have the energy to demonstrate in DC like the > AIDS people do so effectively.. That is why the NIH research budget for > AIDS is more than $2 billion per year and CFS is $ 8 million/year. Or to > use millions, AIDS gets $2,000 million/year and CFS gets $8 million/year.. > Lots more CFS victims than AIDS victims, with probably about 10X the > economic loss to the country.. Sorry I don't have the AIDS case numbers at > hand and am too weak to look it up.. But there are at least a million USA > PWCs, maybe approx. 5 million if all the undiagnosed cases are included.. > But CFS is not fatal...Is that correct??? Bet the USA has more CFS > suicides/year than AIDS deaths. How prematurely do we die from other > causes? Where is our promised CFS CDC patient registry startup in year > 2000??? This was supposed to shed some light on our death rate and > causes.. Guess its being worked on with the same haste as the disease name > change.... Write Congress! > > Mort Caldwell > Biomedical Engineer - CFS since 1994 and at about 10% functionality today.. > > ---------- > From: patrickmm4@a...[sMTP:patrickmm4@a...] > Reply egroups > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 12:28 AM > egroups > Subject: AIDS and CFS > > This is a wierd thought. Probably not too original, and maybe a little > warped, but.... I was walking down the street on Saturday with a friend of > mine. I live in San Francisco, arguably the AIDS capital of the US, at > least > in terms of doctors and treatments and services and stuff. I think > somewhere > around 30-50% of the gay male population in SF is HIV positive. Anyway, I > was > thinking about this - what would happen if someone had CFS, and just > struggled and struggled and struggled, and no treatment helped at all. And > then they became HIV positive. Suddenly, doctors are actually concerned > about > thier symptoms, and their bloodwork and stuff. They then get doused with > the > arsenal of HIV meds, protease inhibitors all that stuff. > > Wouldnt it be interesting if their CFS symptoms then vanished? Now don't > get > me wrong I'm not planning on running out and getting infected with HIV, but > it was just a curious thought. > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2000 Report Share Posted August 15, 2000 > How can we even get up in the morning and face the day if these conspiracy > theories are actually truth? If one is having difficulty getting up in the morning because of conspiracies, it means one needs to bite the bullet and confront reality ... feeling " depressed " about it is natural but like life in general, you will adapt and become stronger for it as time goes forward and soon it won't bother you. it will be like clouds. you may even become better at filtering information and avoiding treatments that could harm you. also, you will less likely become an ally of your victimizers. this is a major problem for the PWME community. without the assistance of the grassroots PWME in terms of apathy, ignorance or emotional ties with their victimizers, the government and it's patient org fronts would have great difficulty in covering this up. in the end, not confronting reality will become harmful to the PWME in general and likely to even your own situation the deck may be stacked but it doesn't mean the human spirit gives up humans have been fighting adversity for a long time Fluffy > > Actually, reading this momentarily makes me think " why bother? the deck is so > very much stacked against us, improvement and recovery are not romotely > possible " . > > How can we even get up in the morning and face the day if these conspiracy > theories are actually truth? > > << Message: 24 > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 04:30:36 -0000 > From: prioris@e... > Subject: Re: AIDS and CFS > > > You probably haven't heard but the first group of people with a few > exceptions faired poorly of ampligen. as i remember, some even > committed suicide later on. > > Hemispherix blatantly lied about the patients in that study. > > I think one can try ampligen or anything but one must go in to it > with their eyes wide open > > I hope Hemispherix goes out of business and the President get's a > severe case of ME and treated with ampligen. > > The HIV positive patients are worse off than we are as far as medical > treatment. It has cost many their lives. > > I dread the day when the big pharmeceuticals get involved in ME since > they usually are involved with biological weapons research. There > will be a conflict of interest. Should they protect the " national > security " or search for real treatments. The PWME will not fare well > in such a conflict. > > Are the MS or other " auto-immune " people any better > > People who think that involvement by the pharceuticals will improve > our plight are deluding themselves. > > Also remember that 17 billion has been flushed down the toilet on > AIDS ... > > When you decide on treatment in such an environment, who you trust is > a key question whether it is a company or individual. > > on a local level, should one trust this group for advice or the > average MD (medical dumbass) > > I think the people in this group and a few others are way ahead of > the pack in terms of treatments > > > Fluffy >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2000 Report Share Posted August 16, 2000 All of your answers can be found in the book " Emerging viruses, Aids & Ebola " by Leonard Hororwitz. Al Re: AIDS and CFS > > > I can understand a cover-up, but I don't necessarily think it was > > intentional genocide, not that that doesn't occur. We are killing > > any black operations program which involves human experimentation is > intentional violence. there is no accountability since black > operation programs are above the law > > the mindset in the security agencies never looked too kindly on the > blacks and gays ... also it is more politically safe to carry out > experimentation against politically weak groups since people will > care less > > there is evidence that they have carried out such things but what is > known is just the tip of the iceberg > > even when the mkultra program got exposed, congress had no problems > with the CIA destroying all the records of it's victims. most people > are indifferent unless they become victims. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.