Re: Re: to Ken re: stats >lyme<

[Guest guest]

Ken:

The same antibiotics that kill rickettsias may also kill lyme, but

according to DR. Burrascano in the link in my last post, amoxicillin is

the number one choice for lyme and would be containdicated in rickettsia

and mycoplasmal infections because it is a pennicillin. so it might be

important to know which you have. And of course hope you don't have

both!

[Guest guest]

>The same antibiotics that kill rickettsias may also kill lyme, but

>according to DR. Burrascano in the link in my last post, amoxicillin is

>the number one choice for lyme and would be containdicated in rickettsia

>and mycoplasmal infections because it is a pennicillin. so it might be

>important to know which you have. And of course hope you don't have

>both!

,

Nothing as easy as that in the world of late-stage lyme, unfortunately!

From the available data it seems that the spirochetal form of the bug is

sensitive to penicillins (eg amoxicillin) BUT (and this is a BIG BUT),

borellia burgdorferi appears to take other shapes, particularly when under

attack from abx, or from immune reaction for eg, or just under less than

optimal conditions for it, lack of nutrients. These variant shapes (L-forms,

cysts, granules, blebs etc) are not sensitive to penicillins or to other abx

for several reasons and the fact that they are buried deep in tissues and

pbly intracellularly as well. They are not sensitive to much actually, hence

the immense difficulty in erradicating Bb from the body of someone (like

yours truly's) infected many years ago. Metronidazole and Tinidazole appear

to kill these variant forms in vitro, this is why many lymies (including

myself) are using this approach to try and get places.

Also, don't think you'd have to be incredibly unfortunate to be infected

with both Lyme and a Rickettsia as many Rickettsiae (including Ehrlichia, a

kind of Rickettsia which is even labelled a Lyme co-infection) are caught

through the same arthropod vectors.

I feel it's a blooming shame that someone like Jadin pays so little

attention to Lyme, hereby devising a protocol which will in NO WAY treat

late lyme satisfactorily.

And by the way, several ex-CFS sufferers (not cured just a change of label)

have now got a dx of Lyme, some with positive serologies others with neg

serologies on the basis of their very specific histories and sx.

It's a VERY hard road, being infected with lyme and trying to treat it

(that's provided you even get as far as being able to get treatment from the

cretin doctors you will almost certainly come across), and you have to ALSO

consider and treat the other infections that often go with it, and tests

being so bad, a lot of educated guessing has to take place.

Nelly

[Guest guest]

Nelly: thanks for that insightful reply. It seems to me that the CFS

and lyme communities have a lot to learn from each other, if indeed they

are not essentially the same thing. i.e. same syndrome, different bugs.

I'm quite sure it is a long road to treat lyme, but at least you know

one thing you're trying to get rid of.

I had read about the variant forms, and the cyst form being

suceptible to metranozidol (flagyl). When I took flagy for an amoeba, I

had a severe reaction, and quit, now I think it may have been lyme.

Fortunately our new doctor is not a cretin, and there is an excellent

lyme doc. locally, Dr. Katzel who i am hoping to be able to see.

Any further sage advice from the lyme world would be appreciated.

If I have it, I am at 2 years, so I'm sure it's well entrenched. If all

tests come back neg. I will likely still push for treatment to see what

happens.

wrote to Ken.

>The same antibiotics that kill rickettsias may also kill lyme, but

according to DR. Burrascano in the link in my last post, amoxicillin is

the number one choice for lyme and would be containdicated in rickettsia

and mycoplasmal infections because it is a pennicillin. so it might be

important to know which you have.   And of course hope you don't have

both! <

then Nelly wrote...

,

Nothing as easy as that in the world of late-stage lyme, unfortunately!

From the available data it seems that the spirochetal form of the bug is

sensitive to penicillins (eg amoxicillin) BUT (and this is a BIG BUT),

borellia burgdorferi appears to take other shapes, particularly when

under attack from abx, or from immune reaction for eg, or just under

less than optimal conditions for it, lack of nutrients. These variant

shapes (L-forms, cysts, granules, blebs etc) are not sensitive to

penicillins or to other abx for several reasons and the fact that they

are buried deep in tissues and pbly intracellularly as well. They are

not sensitive to much actually, hence the immense difficulty in

erradicating Bb from the body of someone (like yours truly's) infected

many years ago. Metronidazole and Tinidazole appear to kill these

variant forms in vitro, this is why many lymies (including myself) are

using this approach to try and get places. Also, don't think you'd have

to be incredibly unfortunate to be infected with both Lyme and a

Rickettsia as many Rickettsiae (including Ehrlichia, a kind of

Rickettsia which is even labelled a Lyme co-infection) are caught

through the same arthropod vectors.

I feel it's a blooming shame that someone like Jadin pays so little

attention to Lyme, hereby devising a protocol which will in NO WAY treat

late lyme satisfactorily.

And by the way, several ex-CFS sufferers (not cured just a change of

label) have now got a dx of Lyme, some with positive serologies others

with neg serologies on the basis of their very specific histories and

sx. It's a VERY hard road, being infected with lyme and trying to treat

it (that's provided you even get as far as being able to get treatment

from the cretin doctors you will almost certainly come across), and you

have to ALSO consider and treat the other infections that often go with

it, and tests being so bad, a lot of educated guessing has to take

place.

Nelly

[Guest guest]

Hi & all,

I'm hearing reading bout how successful Hyperbaric Oxygen " HBO " has

been for Lyme, one place to read about it is at: www.hyperbaricservices.com

and www.yutisicenter.com . Anyways it appears to be so promising that CFS

researchers like Garth Nicolson have planned HBO studies, also some of the

HBO centers also doing things with CFS patients. I got another report that a

patient heard it helped an MCS " mutliple chemical sensitivity " patient.

Al

Re: Re: to Ken re: stats >lyme<

> Nelly: thanks for that insightful reply. It seems to me that the CFS

> and lyme communities have a lot to learn from each other, if indeed they

> are not essentially the same thing. i.e. same syndrome, different bugs.

> I'm quite sure it is a long road to treat lyme, but at least you know

> one thing you're trying to get rid of.

> I had read about the variant forms, and the cyst form being

> suceptible to metranozidol (flagyl). When I took flagy for an amoeba, I

> had a severe reaction, and quit, now I think it may have been lyme.

> Fortunately our new doctor is not a cretin, and there is an excellent

> lyme doc. locally, Dr. Katzel who i am hoping to be able to see.

> Any further sage advice from the lyme world would be appreciated.

> If I have it, I am at 2 years, so I'm sure it's well entrenched. If all

> tests come back neg. I will likely still push for treatment to see what

> happens.

>

>

>

>