Re: Questions about hypoxia cell/blood alk/ acid

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/00 3:52:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

paleotechnics@... writes:

<< It could be the confusion between tissue and blood-- i.e. tissue

acidosis leads to blood alkalosis. ???>>

So from what you are saying.....its best to fix the blood alkalosis and that

will correct the tissue acidosis. I would think it would be the other way

around.

[Guest guest]

It could be the confusion between tissue and blood-- i.e. tissue

acidosis leads to blood alkalosis. ???

<< Not a dumb question it's just confusing. You can have a normal O2

blood saturation and still have an oxygen transport problem. This would

mean that the Oxygen is not releasing from the heamoglobin (sp?) and

going about it's business. This all due to Alkaline blood, low CO2

level, 2,3,DPG, elevated Citric acid, depleted glutathione, etc.... Info

in the below URL might give you some idea if this is your problem. As

far as the hypercoagulation theory of hypoxia goes, I think it's just as

simple as thick blood can't get through all the fine capillaries and do

it's job of oxygenating the tissues. I would like to lock Berg,

Cheney, and Bell in a room for about 15 hours, and tape them. Then

we might have a lot more questions to answered (and a twice as many new

ones asked!) Do you have any breathing troubles, like shortness of >>

This is where I am little confused. I have low CO2 as well. Every place

I looked online said that low CO2 equals acidosis, but from what you are

saying and what it says on Ken's site CO2 would equal alkaline blood.

Why are so many references online telling me the exact opposite?

[Guest guest]

paleotechnics@... writes:

<< It could be the confusion between tissue and blood-- i.e. tissue

acidosis leads to blood alkalosis. ???>>

<<<So from what you are saying.....its best to fix the blood alkalosis

and that will correct the tissue acidosis. I would think it would be the

other way around.

I don't think that I said that, and if I did I didn't mean that. Maybe

you are refering to use of the rebreather? The rebreather helps the

symptoms, but doesn't fix the problem or glutathione deficiency. You

are right, by fixing the metabolic acidosis problem with glutathione

replenishment (assisted by magnesium and selenium), the blood will

adjust back to normal- or so the Cheney theory goes.

E.

[Guest guest]

I read somewhere that Cheney refers people who can't take whey to the

rebreather. I don't know why that would be but thats what I read.

>From: paleotechnics@...

>Reply-egroups

>egroups

>Subject: Re: Questions about hypoxia cell/blood alk/

>acid

>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:18:02 -0700 (PDT)

>

>

>paleotechnics@... writes:

><< It could be the confusion between tissue and blood-- i.e. tissue

>acidosis leads to blood alkalosis. ???>>

>

><<<So from what you are saying.....its best to fix the blood alkalosis

>and that will correct the tissue acidosis. I would think it would be the

>other way around.

>

>I don't think that I said that, and if I did I didn't mean that. Maybe

>you are refering to use of the rebreather? The rebreather helps the

>symptoms, but doesn't fix the problem or glutathione deficiency. You

>are right, by fixing the metabolic acidosis problem with glutathione

>replenishment (assisted by magnesium and selenium), the blood will

>adjust back to normal- or so the Cheney theory goes.

> E.

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Cort,

Cheney should learn about the Hyper Oxy , it's a portable hyperbaric

chamber. Details at: www.hyperoxy.com . It provides relief for a few days

after each treatment, but at least it helps.

Al

Re: Questions about hypoxia cell/blood alk/

acid

> I read somewhere that Cheney refers people who can't take whey to the

> rebreather. I don't know why that would be but thats what I read.

>

>

> >>

[Guest guest]

>

> paleotechnics@w... writes:

> << It could be the confusion between tissue and blood-- i.e. tissue

> acidosis leads to blood alkalosis. ???>>

>

> <<<So from what you are saying.....its best to fix the blood

alkalosis

> and that will correct the tissue acidosis. I would think it would

be

the

> other way around.

>

> I don't think that I said that, and if I did I didn't mean that.

Maybe

> you are refering to use of the rebreather? The rebreather helps

the

> symptoms, but doesn't fix the problem or glutathione deficiency.

You

> are right, by fixing the metabolic acidosis problem with glutathione

> replenishment (assisted by magnesium and selenium), the blood will

> adjust back to normal- or so the Cheney theory goes.

> E.

For what it's worth, from the tapes I've heard, I don't think Dr.

Cheney has spelled out the sequence of events very clearly here. As

I

see it, the depletion of glutathione allows peroxynitrite to build up

in the red muscle cells, placing partial blockades in the Krebs

cycle,

particularly at aconitase. This produces both the effects that have

been discussed: blood alkalization and tissue acidification. The

first

occurs because the amount of carbon dioxide released by the tissues

to

the blood per unit time is decreased, because the Krebs cycles are

partially blockaded and thus can't produce as much. Less carbon

dioxide produces less carbonic acid in the blood, and hence the blood

goes alkaline. The second effect occurs because the cells are

therefore forced to rely on speeding up glycolysis to make ATP, and

the glycolysis becomes anaerobic glycolysis (probably mostly because

of limited shuttle capacity for NADH from the cytosol into the

mitochondria, but maybe partly due to lack of oxygen released by the

hemoglobin to the cells caused by the first effect), and thus

generates excess lactic acid, making the muscle tissue acidic.

As has said, if the partial blockades are removed by

replenishing the glutathione and thus reducing the concentration of

peroxynitrite, both these effects will be corrected. On the other

hand, using oxygen with a rebreather can temporarily correct the

blood

alkalinization, and perhaps will help the glycolysis to become

somewhat more aerobic, and thus produce less lactic acid, but it

isn't

a permanent fix for either one.

Rich Van K.

[Guest guest]

Rich,

What about commenting on the effect of vascioconstriction on this

process...? would not vascioconstriction adversely effect the cycle?

> As has said, if the partial blockades are removed by

> replenishing the glutathione and thus reducing the concentration of

> peroxynitrite, both these effects will be corrected. On the other

> hand, using oxygen with a rebreather can temporarily correct the

> blood

> alkalinization, and perhaps will help the glycolysis to become

> somewhat more aerobic, and thus produce less lactic acid, but it

> isn't

> a permanent fix for either one.

>

> Rich Van K.