Procaine vs lidocaine with IM Mag? (and ease of purchase)

[Guest guest]

For years I've done IM magnesium with no local anaesthetic. But

wither because I've been using longer needles (because I could get

finer gauge needles only longer) or maybe because I'm more intolerant

to pain, but recently I about had it with the pain from those shots.

So I asked my doc for procaine or lidocaine, since I saw it mentioned

on the list. He gave me procaine. Buffered, though it doesn't say

what the buffer is. I know I'm not allergic to lidocaine and that

the -caines are highly related, but since I did the procaine the same

day I had that allergic reaction I stopped it and have resisted doing

the IM mag for a few days.

I'll try to find out (a) about what it's buffered with and ( if I

could be allergic to procaine if I'm not to lidocaine.

Another question: For those using lidocaine with mag IM, how do you

get it? I assume a script is needed. But is it available from non-

compounding pharmacies? Can I take a script in and expect to get it

from a pharmacy that does supply me with IM 2 cc vials of mag sulfate-

-a pharmacy chain (CVS)?

Judith

[Guest guest]

Judith, Regarding the lidocaine, I bought mine from a compounding

pharmacy, but they didn't conpound it. it's from chicago. and they had

it on hand, so it oughtn't to be too hard to track down I wouldn't

think.

It says ldocaine hcl 2% 20mg/ml injection usp. It is preserved

however which I just discovere after peeling off my pharmacists label to

look at the bottle. The preservative is methylparaben anyone know hat

that is?

When I went to pick up the script they almost gave me a type that was

made to stay in the local area in which it was shot, and not spread. It

was the wrong kind. I think it had a vasoconstrictor, but I can't

remember. I just remember it said with something else and I said what's

that. The doctor just had bad handwritting (don't they all) and they

had to call him to double check. You definitely want the mag. to spread

out fast. I wonder if this could be a problem for those who have long

lasting lumps from mag. shots- the wong kind of lidocaine.?? just a

thought.

It was 7.95 for 20 ml which lasts a long time. A little goes a long

way. I'll bet that preservative free might need to be compounded, or

you might have to buy it is one dose vials. call around and see.

good luck, and it's way worth it. hope you aren't allergic. could it

have been preservatives that you reacted to?

E.

<<For years I've done IM magnesium with no local anaesthetic. But wither

because I've been using longer needles (because I could get finer gauge

needles only longer) or maybe because I'm more intolerant to pain, but

recently I about had it with the pain from those shots.

So I asked my doc for procaine or lidocaine, since I saw it mentioned on

the list. He gave me procaine. Buffered, though it doesn't say what the

buffer is. I know I'm not allergic to lidocaine and that the -caines are

highly related, but since I did the procaine the same day I had that

allergic reaction I stopped it and have resisted doing the IM mag for a

few days.

I'll try to find out (a) about what it's buffered with and ( if I

could be allergic to procaine if I'm not to lidocaine.

Another question: For those using lidocaine with mag IM, how do you get

it? I assume a script is needed. But is it available from non-

compounding pharmacies? Can I take a script in and expect to get it from

a pharmacy that does supply me with IM 2 cc vials of mag sulfate- -a

pharmacy chain (CVS)?

Judith>>>

[Guest guest]

Hi, I discussed this problem with my immunologist this morning. Mg helped me

alot and we agreed on another course of injections. I prefered IV and she

seemed to prefer IM. I told her about the pain problem and lidocaine and she

explained that the -caine family is known to cause problems in people with

impaired immunity or allergies/sensitivities. So if my vein ruptures again I

will have IM Mg without any -caine :-( ....considering the great effect of

Mg it worth it.

Stania

the -caines are

> highly related, but since I did the procaine the same day I had that

> allergic reaction I stopped it and have resisted doing the IM mag for a

> few days.

[Guest guest]

Steve,

Thanks for this info. Yesterday I called my local pharmacy where I

get all my prescriptions of the sort that Medicaid covers (i.e., not

compounded ones). I even get non-preserved 2cc vials of Mag Sulfate

from them. I asked about lidocaine and/or procaine. They didn't

know offhand (it's not popular these days!!) but will look into it.

The preservative you mention in yours is the same preservative that

was in the B-l2 manufacturered before they stopped and I THINK that

if you get preserved from McGuff (they sell it and they actually are

more comfortable, as I discussed a bit ago, to preserve multidose

vials but as you know they will prepare and do put up and sell the

unpreserved--but the pharmacist I discussed all that with said they

used the same preservative used by the former manufacturer-Schein--

and it's what you mention below).

My doc initially said he'd prefer me not to dose myself daily with

preservative. Though I think it's relatively harmless but I am not

in a position to know and must rely on docs or others more

knowledgeable re such matters. So I am of course buying my b-l2

unpreserved and just taking care , using the alc swabs and the

refrigeration.

However, I simply can't afford more compoounded stuff as Medicaid

won't pay. Unless it's real cheap. I called one compounding

pharmacy yesterday about the procaine and lidocaine they sell to my

doc. They didn't return my call. I'll call again and I'll call

McGuff.

My dentist uses lidocaine without epinephrine --that's the

vasoconstrictor that makes your heart go very fast--many dentists

have it or will order it. They must use it with heart patients.

It's disadvantage for dentistry is that it doesn't hang out at the

tooth because of no vasoconstrictor for as long, so my doc has to

work fast and also sometime give me more.

Because I still am not sure what happened Friday night (that allergic

reaction) and because that was about 30 hrs after the first quercetin

and shortly after the last one (6 total) and shortly after I first

used the procaine my doc sold me (unpreserved but buffered) my

feeling is I wanna get lidocaine for my IM shots, because maybe the

diff between lido- and procaine means something to my immune system.

Who knows. But I'm now scared of quercetin and procaine for the

nonce.

Though from what others have told me I might have taken far too much

quercetin, also that brand (Cardiovascul Research--good company I

think, always thought) snuck into their ingredients , lactose, which

shocked me and I never noticed since they touted all the usual

suspects as not being in it, and for all I know it was that.

When I find out via this list and my calls whehter lido can be

gotten , with or without preservatives, how costly, etc., I'll report

back. Do let me know how little can be given with 2cc of mag sulfate

to be effectiv e. That reduces cost and reduces more stuff to be

allergic to!

Thanks.

Judith

- In egroups, paleotechnics@w... wrote:

> Judith, Regarding the lidocaine, I bought mine from a compounding

> pharmacy, but they didn't conpound it. it's from chicago. and

they had

> it on hand, so it oughtn't to be too hard to track down I wouldn't

> think.

> It says ldocaine hcl 2% 20mg/ml injection usp. It is preserved

> however which I just discovere after peeling off my pharmacists

label to

> look at the bottle. The preservative is methylparaben anyone know

hat

> that is?

> When I went to pick up the script they almost gave me a type

that was

> made to stay in the local area in which it was shot, and not

spread. It

> was the wrong kind. I think it had a vasoconstrictor, but I can't

> remember. I just remember it said with something else and I said

what's

> that. The doctor just had bad handwritting (don't they all) and

they

> had to call him to double check. You definitely want the mag. to

spread

> out fast. I wonder if this could be a problem for those who have

long

> lasting lumps from mag. shots- the wong kind of lidocaine.?? just a

> thought.

> It was 7.95 for 20 ml which lasts a long time. A little goes a

long

> way. I'll bet that preservative free might need to be compounded,

or

> you might have to buy it is one dose vials. call around and see.

> good luck, and it's way worth it. hope you aren't allergic. could

it

> have been preservatives that you reacted to?

> E.

>

> <<For years I've done IM magnesium with no local anaesthetic. But

wither

> because I've been using longer needles (because I could get finer

gauge

> needles only longer) or maybe because I'm more intolerant to pain,

but

> recently I about had it with the pain from those shots.

> So I asked my doc for procaine or lidocaine, since I saw it

mentioned on

> the list. He gave me procaine. Buffered, though it doesn't say what

the

> buffer is. I know I'm not allergic to lidocaine and that the -

caines are

> highly related, but since I did the procaine the same day I had that

> allergic reaction I stopped it and have resisted doing the IM mag

for a

> few days.

> I'll try to find out (a) about what it's buffered with and ( if I

> could be allergic to procaine if I'm not to lidocaine.

> Another question: For those using lidocaine with mag IM, how do you

get

> it? I assume a script is needed. But is it available from non-

> compounding pharmacies? Can I take a script in and expect to get it

from

> a pharmacy that does supply me with IM 2 cc vials of mag sulfate- -a

> pharmacy chain (CVS)?

> Judith>>>

[Guest DrFairchild]

It says ldocaine hcl 2% 20mg/ml injection usp. It is preserved

however which I just discovere after peeling off my pharmacists label to

look at the bottle. The preservative is methylparaben anyone know hat

that is?

"Methyl paraben (CAS No. 99-76-3) is a methyl ester of p-hydroxybenzoic acid...The mechanism of cytotoxic action of parabens may be linked to mitochondrial failure dependent on induction of membrane permeability transition accompanied by the mitochondrial depolarization and depletion of cellular ATP through uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation. Parabens are reported to cause contact dermatitis reactions in some individuals on cutaneous exposure. Parabens have been implicated in numerous cases of contact sensitivity associated with cutaneous exposure; however, the mechanism of this sensitivity is unknown. Sensitization has occurred when medications containing parabens have been applied to damaged or broken skin. Allergic reactions to ingested parabens have been reported, although rigorous evidence of the allergenicity of ingested paraben is lacking."

Food Chem Toxicol. 2002 Oct;40(10):1335-73.

Evaluation of the health aspects of methyl paraben: a review of the published literature.