Re: preservative in heparin

[Guest guest]

Donna,

Very interesting situation you describe. I just went through the

same exact thing. When I would take the Mg (Preservative free) with

Taurine (Benzyl Alcohol), I had headaches, fogginess, etc. I knew

that the Mg was preservative free so I didn't think about a reaction

to preservatives. I asked Cheney about it at my last appt. and he

said it definately sounds like a reaction to preservatives

(especially the " flushing " I described). He also said that with my

large number of food allergies, it makes sense that I would react to

a preservative. I called McGuff's where I get my meds. and they

said that the taurine had benzyl alcohol. I tried a injection w/o

taurine and no problem - no side effects at all. So I had Cheney

call in a preservative free taurine script yesterday. I have taken

kutapressin in the past which has phenol as a preservative and that

wasn't a problem. McGuff's said that benzyl alcohol should be easier

to tolerate than phenol, but not in my case.

Hope this helps,

Ron Z.

> About two months back, I posted that I was still having trouble

with heparin

> and herxing - headaches, increased fog, particularly. Worse in the

morning,

> than in the evenings, but the evening shot usually happens within

30 minutes

> to an hour of my mag/taurine shot and my hydroxy B-12 shot.

>

> Today, Wellness Pharmacy called to tell me that they have worked

out an

> arrangement with Dr. Cheney's office whereby they can provide 10 ml

bottles

> of the magnesium, taurine, procaine and B-12 for approx 40% less

than

> previous cost for unit dose vials. The catch is they must have

preservative

> in them. I asked what the preservative was, and she mumbled

something which

> I thought I had gotten down correctly, but a web search turned up

nothing

> with that name - it was benzyl something, but not benzyl alcohol,

the

> preservative in heparin. Then I had a sudden thought that maybe I

was

> reacting to the benzyl alcohol in the heparin rather than herxing

on it as I

> had thought. The B-12 may be detoxing it rather quickly so that

could

> explain why the nighttime dose does not impact me so strongly. Any

of you

> have any thoughts, or similar reactions to a preservative. Of note

is that I

> do not tolerate alcohol ( though I think most of us don't), can't

even stand

> its smell on alcohol pads, nor do I tolerate it in any homeopathic

remedies.

> I did not tolerate the Sub-Adrene Dr. Cheney recommended, but

thought that

> was perhaps the peppermint, although that was purely a guess, but am

> thinking now it was perhaps the alcohol in the sub-Adrene. Could I

be that

> reactive to those small amounts? I don;t think it's an allergic

reaction,

> per se`, but a reaction none the less. Any comments?

>

> Thanks, Donna in NC

[Guest guest]

Donna,

I don't do heparin. Dr. Cheney feels like I don't need it although I

have some clotting (immune activated clotting). 339 Fibrinogen and

47 CD62P. Everything else normal on Hemex test. He asked about

family history for strokes, heart disease and he feels I don't have

genetic clotting, so don't need heparin. Does this make sense?

He wants me to take bromelain and digestive enzymes between meals and

tumeric for the clotting. The problem as I discovered today is that

I must be allergic to bromelain. I though I might be herxing, but it

feels a lot like the allergy response I had to the benzyl alcohol.

Have you tried (or anyone else for that matter) bromelain and reacted

to it. I read a lot of the old posts on bromelain and many people

felt worse on it and attributed it to herxing, but unless they were

taking antibiotics w/ it, I don't think they would be herxing.

You should try McGuff's Pharmacy. I get B-12 and will be getting

taurine in 10 ml preservative free vials. I think they are less

expensive than Wellness also. Phone number = 877-444-1155

-- In @y..., " Donna Pruitt " <donnap@e...> wrote:

> Ron,

> Thanks for the info. I talked to Holly Cheney today, and she is

going to

> talk to Cheney this afternoon to see if I can get all of my

injectables in

> the 10 cc preservative free vials. Wellness doesn't like to do

that, but I

> have been taking preservative free allergy shots for years with 15

dose

> minimum vials, with no problems. Phenol sends me over the edge,

literally.

> My EI doc muscled tested me to phenol and I literally fell off the

chair at

> the slightest arm pressure. I too have a multitude of food

allergies so I

> fit that bill perfectly.

>

> I take it you do not do the heparin injections, or if you do, have

you found

> a way around the benzyl alcohol in the heparin. I'm going to try to

see if I

> can find any preservative free heparin and at least try a few doses

without

> the preservative to see what effect if any there may or may not be.

>

[Guest guest]

Donna,

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure if I am reacting to the

bromelain or not. I have taken it in the past in smaller doses w/o

problems. I am also now in the process of getting off of zoloft

which I was on for 6 years. I am down to 5 mg -have been ramping

down very slowly, and although I have been at this dose for about 3

weeks, the effects may be kicking in now. It may just be a

coincidence with the timing of the bromelain. Getting off of the

zolft has been the hardest thing I have had to do.

Food allergies, at least in this severe of a form, are new to me, so

I really have trouble distinguishing them. When you react to foods,

do you have GI problems? What are your symptoms? I have not had any

GI symptoms with the bromelain, so maybe I am not reacting.

Thanks,

Ron Z.

> Hi Ron,

> I do think Cheney is less aggressive than Berg about the use

of

> heparin, because it seems like he looks for two other parameters

besides a

> high fibrinogen before going the heparin route, or a high SFM. My

SFM was

> not high, although my Fibrinogen was 398 and my PT 1+2 was high,

and he

> considered me to be borderline. However, I have a strong family

history of

> clotting disorders, and we did a genetic panel, and my Protein S

was low. My

> grandmother had her first of several thrombi at approximately my

age - mid

> 40's. My mother was routinely given vitamin K, which would fit in

well with

> the low Protein S, and we all have severe varicose veins. So he put

me on

> the heparin.

>

> I too take bromelain and digestive enzymes and turmeric between

meals for

> the clotting. I can tell you that a few years ago (before I started

seeing

> Dr. Cheney, I had a small blood clot on the top of my foot, and my

EI doc

> had me on high doses of bromelain between meals and it did break up

the

> clot, so I do believe it has a lot to offer. I have not reacted to

it -

> either then or now, although I have found that I often have

diarrhea an hour

> or so after the enzymes/bromo/turmeric doses. I really don't mind,

because

> up until now my bowels did not work at all, and my EI doc was

concerned that

> the paresis might not be as temporary as we were thinking ( 5 years

is a

> long time ). There is still much GI work to be done, as the

diarrhea is not

> a good thing over the long haul, but for the moment, it is not

worrying

> me.Is there any way you can be tested to see if you are allergic to

it? Are

> you taking any of the immune modulators? I agree it doesn't seem

likely

> that bromo alone would cause herxing, and I don't remember herxing

when I

> took it before, but I was pretty sick, and remember little of the

past five

> years. I do think though, that most of us take many supplements,

immune

> modulators, herbal preparations, homeopathic remedies, and such,

which could

> act in an antiviral or antibacterial fashion upon the body, and

once the

> fibrin deposits are cleared, thereby potentially exposing any hidden

> pathogens, these substances, or perhaps our own immune cells, if we

aren't

> too damaged, could indeed go after the exposed pathogens, thus

creating

> herxing symptoms. Have you separated out the bromo from the enzymes

and the

> turmeric to make sure it isn't one of them? Plant enzymes are

derived from

> molds, so I use pork based enzymes, as plant enzymes cause severe

allergic

> reactions in me. I don't know about turmeric's allergy potential,

but it is

> a plant, and if you have lots of food allergies, it's a potential

as well as

> bromelain. I think someone on one of my other lists said she

couldn't take

> bromelain that was in her enzymes, and had to switch because of it.

>

> I had spoken with Cheney previously about switching over to

McGuff's, and

> had decided to do it when my current prescriptions run out. This

refill they

> were working on yesterday was the last. I should be switching over

next

> month.

>

> Donna in NC

[Guest guest]

Donna,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I have stopped

the bromelain and feel much better. I was reacting to it.

Thanks again,

Ron

> Ron,

> Reactions to foods are sometimes very difficult to distinguish from

other

> symptoms. I suffer from that all the time. Sometimes the reaction

is so

> immediate upon ingesting food, you know it's a reaction - for

example, I

> have asthma, and a big hallmark for me is sudden breathing

difficulties I

> was not experiencing before, usually within 15 - 20 minutes.

Sometimes it's

> sudden diarrhea, again, usually within a few minutes of eating. I

can fall

> asleep, or lose control of my head before my dinner plate has even

been

> moved off the table. Sometimes you can pick up these responses with

a

> corresponding increase in your heart rate. Some other symptoms

could be

> sudden headache, achy joints that weren't aching before, fatigue and

> weakness, greater than before. I try to note how I feel before and

after

> dinner, and see if I notice any change. Those are immediate

reaction type

> allergies.

>

> However, there can be delayed reactions, and these are the hardest

to tell.

> They may not hit for several hours later, often GI symptoms such as

bloating

> ( but that might be yeast or other critters just eating your

undigested

> meal), headaches, hives/rashes or itching, such as often the case

with

> strawberries and shellfish. Nightshades, such as potatoes, tomatoes,

> eggplant, peppers are often the culprits for achy joints, and can

take

> several days to months to totally clear your body. Most allergic

reactions

> to foods clear your body in about 4 days. So that becomes my rule

for

> testing something out - if I think it is bothering me, I will

exclude it for

> at least five days or more, then add it back in, all by itself. See

if you

> get the same reaction, or any kind of reaction to it. Cheapest

initial test

> is exclusionary - eliminate from your diet the most common

allergenic foods

> and anything else you think might be bothering you - e.g. corn, all

dairy,

> wheat, peanuts, oranges, caffeine, sugar, chocolate, eggs, then add

them

> back in at a rate of no faster than one food every five days,

taking care to

> try to eat that food alone to see how you react to it. Remember,

that often,

> the foods you crave the most are often the foods you are most

allergic too.

> A nasty little irony, but easily explained.

> When I first crashed, the allergies became so overwhelming all at

once, and

> I was losing weight much too fast despite eating like a horse, that

I needed

> to be tested, and I have taken food allergy shots for almost 5

years now.

> They have helped immensely in cutting down the severity of

reactions,

> allowing me to slowly gain a little weight back...

>

> My suggestion to you at the moment would be to stop the bromelain

until you

> are sure you are through with the withdrawal effects of the Zoloft.

Then add

> the bromelain back slowly, and see if you get the same reactions.

Make no

> other changes in your diet, food or supplement wise, or environment

wise if

> you are sensitive to changing environments, so that you will have

the

> clearest picture you can. Also, once you are clear of the Zoloft,

perhaps

> you can find someone who does kinesiology locally that would be

willing to

> test a couple of substances for you - one you know you don't react

to, and

> the bromelain. Put them in same size containers so you won't know

which is

> which, and see if that tells you anything. I have done that before

with

> pretty good luck.

>

> Hope this helps. If in doubt, talk to Cheney.

>

> Donna in NC

>