RE: Interesting Serotonin Article

[Guest guest]

What I don't understand is why they focused on negative aspects through half

the article, but failed to come to any kind of a negative conclusion or even

a caution. Also, there _ARE_ studies that have found long-term use of Prozac

causes brain damage. It's showing up in a percentage of the people that have

been on Prozac for 10 years or longer. And there is research out there that

has found an increased risk of cancer in people who use antidepressants. (It

ought to be treated like hGH) The research is out there, but for some reason

it just doesn't get into the hands of people that are dealing with related

research, so a lot of research is wasted. I don't understand why research is

accepted as credible, when it doesn't take into account other research

related to it. It's like instead of building on one another, they just go

around doing the same experiments. And I can see some value in it when it

confirms someone else's research. But when they don't even seem to be aware

of the research of each other, they are hardly confirming each other's

research.

And one additional note. The article mentioned the possibility that Prozac

may possibly be somewhat neurotoxic. As PWC's, we already have problems with

neurotoxicity. Why add more potential neurotoxins to our problem? And is it

possible that antidepressants are contributing to our symptoms? The

discussion about PWC's with excess seretonin that's been discussed through

this list gives rise to some concerns I have with using SSRI's above and

beyond the concerns about possible neurotoxic problems.

I've been on antidepressants, and experienced some very severe side-effects

from them that have soured my opinion of them. The article didn't mention

much about this, and so far as I know, scientists can't come up with an

explanation for those side effects. Playing around with brain chemistry is

like experimenting with street drugs. Until they can come up with a

definitive way to evaluate who will have those side effects, or how those

side effects occur, I think there needs to be a lot more caution about the

use of antidepressants, and I'm alarmed that it is dispensed like candy. I

have the fear that eventually I'm going to be living in a nation full of

brain damaged individuals. And I fear that PWC's that have depended on

antidepressants may find that they have irreparable brain damage when a cure

is finally found for our problem.

lindaj@...

Interesting Serotonin Article

> In the July issue of Discover Magazine:

> http://www.discover.com/recent_issue/index.html

>

> Click on July 2001. The title of the article is Serotonin Surprise.

[Guest guest]

Hi!

There's a simple solution. Quit taking them. If you've been on them a long time,

find a health care practitioner that will help you get off them. There are

health care practitioners out there who

refuse to prescribe them.

I don't take any prescription drugs. I'm 59 with diagnosed CFS since 1997,

(probably got it in 1990) and I'm probably doing better than most postees on

medication.

Merle

wrote:

> What I don't understand is why they focused on negative aspects through half

> the article, but failed to come to any kind of a negative conclusion or even

> a caution. Also, there _ARE_ studies that have found long-term use of Prozac

> causes brain damage. It's showing up in a percentage of the people that have

> been on Prozac for 10 years or longer. And there is research out there that

> has found an increased risk of cancer in people who use antidepressants. (It

> ought to be treated like hGH) The research is out there, but for some reason

> it just doesn't get into the hands of people that are dealing with related

> research, so a lot of research is wasted. I don't understand why research is

> accepted as credible, when it doesn't take into account other research

> related to it. It's like instead of building on one another, they just go

> around doing the same experiments. And I can see some value in it when it

> confirms someone else's research. But when they don't even seem to be aware

> of the research of each other, they are hardly confirming each other's

> research.

>

> And one additional note. The article mentioned the possibility that Prozac

> may possibly be somewhat neurotoxic. As PWC's, we already have problems with

> neurotoxicity. Why add more potential neurotoxins to our problem? And is it

> possible that antidepressants are contributing to our symptoms? The

> discussion about PWC's with excess seretonin that's been discussed through

> this list gives rise to some concerns I have with using SSRI's above and

> beyond the concerns about possible neurotoxic problems.

>

> I've been on antidepressants, and experienced some very severe side-effects

> from them that have soured my opinion of them. The article didn't mention

> much about this, and so far as I know, scientists can't come up with an

> explanation for those side effects. Playing around with brain chemistry is

> like experimenting with street drugs. Until they can come up with a

> definitive way to evaluate who will have those side effects, or how those

> side effects occur, I think there needs to be a lot more caution about the

> use of antidepressants, and I'm alarmed that it is dispensed like candy. I

> have the fear that eventually I'm going to be living in a nation full of

> brain damaged individuals. And I fear that PWC's that have depended on

> antidepressants may find that they have irreparable brain damage when a cure

> is finally found for our problem.

>

>

> lindaj@...

>

> Interesting Serotonin Article

>

> > In the July issue of Discover Magazine:

> > http://www.discover.com/recent_issue/index.html

> >

> > Click on July 2001. The title of the article is Serotonin Surprise.

>

[Guest guest]

If so much about CFS relates to neurotransmitter imbalances (excesses

and/or deficiencies), why don't doctors routinely test PWCs'

neurotransmitter levels? Have any of you had your levels tested?

What sort of test was it? Blood test?

I gather from things I've read on the Web that there are blood and/or

urine tests that can gauge neurotransmitter levels. Are these test

results considered unreliable? Do the results fluctuate too much in

short periods of time? Would the stress of having a blood test cause

neurotransmitter fluctuations that would make the test invalid?

Thanks for any info or speculations.

- E.B.

[Guest guest]

Hi and all,

I have CFS for more than 12 years.

I have used mao inhibitors and various antidepressants during years

1980-1982 as I had a major depression during that time. (I still think from

time to time if heavy usage of anti depressants triggered CFS in me).

I stoped using them around 1982 1983 and thanks God I did not use them till

now.

Right now I practice two breathing methods,alpha theta meditation,taoist

inner smiling and six healing sounds methods. I use some herbs like

valerian, officinialis if I feel a desperate need for them.

Breathing and meditation methods helped me tremendously. I believe that

playing with brain chemistry is risky and I will continue avoiding them

until a drug specific for our illness is found. If anybody is interested in

the breathing and or meditation methods that I use please e-mail me

separately.I can give you more info on them.I do not want to take time of

other people who are not interested in it.

Take care of you all.

Nil

Interesting Serotonin Article

>

>

> > In the July issue of Discover Magazine:

> > http://www.discover.com/recent_issue/index.html

> >

> > Click on July 2001. The title of the article is Serotonin Surprise.

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi!

>

> There's a simple solution. Quit taking them. If you've been on them

a long time, find a health care practitioner that will help you get

off them. There are health care practitioners out there who

> refuse to prescribe them.

Merle, doctors would probably reply that it is better for someone

to *possibly* have brain damage than to be depressed and commit

suicide. You have to remember that these people were prescribed

Prozac for a reason in the first place. What is your answer for

the depression?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim

I hve tried to enter in this web site and it was impossible. Is it possible

for you to copy and paste the article and send it.?

i am very interested in this subject, since i am on antidepressats since

several years (20) and i

feel they are making a mess in my brain .

thank you v much.

Elena

(Argentina)

Interesting Serotonin Article

> In the July issue of Discover Magazine:

> http://www.discover.com/recent_issue/index.html

>

> Click on July 2001. The title of the article is Serotonin Surprise.

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with everything you said. My point is that when most docs

spend 15 minutes with a patient, they don't go into all the issues,

not to mention that most docs don't know what NAET or EFT is. THe

docs actually think they are helping the patient by prescribing

an SSRI, because that is what they have been taught.

Mike

>

> What about the people who have an increased risk of suicide BECAUSE

they

> take antidepressants. There have been studies that have found that

> antidepressants actually increase the risk of suicide, not decrease

it,

> especially within the first few weeks or months of use, because

> antidepressants can remove inhibitions and may increase violent

behavior.

>

> There are lots of other alternatives for depression. For starters,

EFT (a

> form of accupressure treatment similar to NAET.) is very effective

at

> dealing with emotional issues that can contribute to depression.

NAET and

> JMT can also be used to deal with depression. There is growing

evidence that

> severe depression may actually be caused by an infection in many

cases, so

> much of what applies to CFS and FM may also apply to depression.

Allergies

> and nutritional malabsorptions can also contribute to depression.

> (Especially Omega 3 deficiencies) There are many herbal and

nutritional

> approaches that can be taken. And psychotherapy is also one

approach that

> can be taken. And not the least is trying to change the

circumstances that

> contribute to depression, such as separating from abusive spouses

or finding

> support from support groups.

>

>

> lindaj@h...

[Guest guest]

E.B.,

It is possible to analyze urine for breakdown products (metabolites)

of neurotransmitters. In particular, the metabolite of dopamine is

homovanillic acid. That of serotonin is 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid

(5-HIAA). For norepineprine it's 3-methoxy-4-hydroxyphenylglycol

(MHPG). There is a paper by Forsyth et al on NADH in CFS that says

they found high 5-HIAA in the urine of PWCs, indicating elevated

serotonergic activity. There's also a paper by Demitrack et al in

which they found elevated 5-HIAA and low MHPG in the blood, indicating

high serotonergic activity and low norepinephrine.

The Great Plains Lab organic acid test measures all of them, I think.

At least, their website says they measure indicators of three

neurotransmitters, and I'm guessing these are the three. I have no

reason to doubt the reliability of these tests. The organic acid test

is not run by very many labs, and it is not a routinely used test, but

I think it is very helpful in sorting out cases of CFS.

Rich

> If so much about CFS relates to neurotransmitter imbalances

(excesses

> and/or deficiencies), why don't doctors routinely test PWCs'

> neurotransmitter levels? Have any of you had your levels tested?

> What sort of test was it? Blood test?

>

> I gather from things I've read on the Web that there are blood

and/or

> urine tests that can gauge neurotransmitter levels. Are these test

> results considered unreliable? Do the results fluctuate too much in

> short periods of time? Would the stress of having a blood test

cause

> neurotransmitter fluctuations that would make the test invalid?

>

> Thanks for any info or speculations.

>

> - E.B.