Re: Re: Immunocal questions

[Guest guest]

I can't take Immunocal, and thus take glutathione injections three times a

week. I really can't tell you which works better, though I believe it is

probably Immunocal, providing you can take it. The last time I tried to take

it, I ordered it from Charlie Green, and the cost had increased to

$59.95/box. That was at the beginning of this year. I don't know anything

about insurance, as I never tried to file it with them.

Donna in NC

Re: Immunocal questions

> Hi:

>

> I would appreciate info. on immunocal. Is it generally paid for by

insurance (I've a little paragraph from Cheney's web site that barely

touches insurance below).

> Also, if it works for you the same or better than glutathione

injectuions?

> thank you in advance.

>

> best,

> lea

>

> >>Which whey product should you choose, and where can you get it?

Immunocal is the best documented, has the original patents, and is the most

expensive. It is available at nutritionadvisor.com (1-800- 378-1578) and

immunesupport.com (1-800-366-6056). A special purchase program called the

Numed-Tech Buyers Club is available for those who have no insurance

coverage for Immunocal, make less than $25,000 a year, and have not

purchased Immunocal from another source in the last six months. The cost is

$40 a box with a prescription. (A box contains 30 packets and usually sells

for $60 to $100.) Contact pharmacist Charlie Green at 209-948-3174, fax

209-465-1398.>>>

[Guest guest]

Hey Donna-

What happens to you when you take Immunocal? By the way, where is this

Charlie Green located?

Kathy

PS: You are seeing Leiberman at the end of this month?

Re: Re: Immunocal questions

> I can't take Immunocal, and thus take glutathione injections three times a

> week. I really can't tell you which works better, though I believe it is

> probably Immunocal, providing you can take it. The last time I tried to

take

> it, I ordered it from Charlie Green, and the cost had increased to

> $59.95/box. That was at the beginning of this year. I don't know anything

> about insurance, as I never tried to file it with them.

> Donna in NC

[Guest guest]

Hey Kathy,

It's weird because I used to take Immunocal w/o trouble - before I had my

messed up experience with DMPS and then DMSA. Since then I no longer

tolerate glutamine, vitamins in aspartate form, and Immunocal (amongst

others). The problems for these three are similar however. Namely, internal

jitters and nervousness, sometimes leading to external tremors,

irritability, anger, a feeling like I'm about to jump out of my skin, but

unable to gather up the energy to find an outlet for these feelings, so they

keep increasing. This on about an 1/8 tsp. of any of these products. Dr.

Cheney thinks that enzyme deficiencies are preventing these substances from

being converted to the appropriate form that is beneficial to us, but rather

being converted to the toxic metabolite form. For example, the glutamine is

being converted to glutamate, which is an excitotoxin, vs. being converted

to glutamic acid, which heals leaky gut. (I may have the two forms mixed up,

but the premise is the same - one form is excitotoxic, one is beneficial).

I'm not sure what Immunocal is converted to, but it has the same excitotoxic

effect as the others.

Yes, I see Lieberman the 28th of this month. Just been dx with mycoplasma

fermentans, so will be interesting to hear his comments, then compare them

to Cheney's, then decide what to do for Rx. Still stuck here - DH is having

to fly up this weekend to drive me back because they can't cure my car's

smell, but my reactions to it are getting stronger and it's no longer even

remotely safe for me to drive it that distance. Coming down with a sinus

infection, I believe. I hate this weather!!!! I've been here so long it's

time for another NEEDS run!

I think Charlie Green is in California or Washington State, but his address

is back home. I think it may be in the archives, though.

Donna in NC

Re: Re: Immunocal questions

> Hey Donna-

>

> What happens to you when you take Immunocal? By the way, where is this

Charlie Green located?

>

> Kathy

>

> PS: You are seeing Leiberman at the end of this month?

[Guest guest]

Donna -

So what is the solution is Cheney is correct in that you're reacting to

excitotoxins caused by malabsorption? Wouldn't taking a braod spectrum

enzyme supplement which contains especially high amounts of protease and

Betaine HCL do the trick to split the aminos?

>From: " Donna Pruitt " <donnap@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: Re: Immunocal questions

>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:47:25 -0400

>

>Hey Kathy,

>

>It's weird because I used to take Immunocal w/o trouble - before I had my

>messed up experience with DMPS and then DMSA. Since then I no longer

>tolerate glutamine, vitamins in aspartate form, and Immunocal (amongst

>others). The problems for these three are similar however. Namely, internal

>jitters and nervousness, sometimes leading to external tremors,

>irritability, anger, a feeling like I'm about to jump out of my skin, but

>unable to gather up the energy to find an outlet for these feelings, so

>they

>keep increasing. This on about an 1/8 tsp. of any of these products. Dr.

>Cheney thinks that enzyme deficiencies are preventing these substances from

>being converted to the appropriate form that is beneficial to us, but

>rather

>being converted to the toxic metabolite form. For example, the glutamine is

>being converted to glutamate, which is an excitotoxin, vs. being converted

>to glutamic acid, which heals leaky gut. (I may have the two forms mixed

>up,

>but the premise is the same - one form is excitotoxic, one is beneficial).

>I'm not sure what Immunocal is converted to, but it has the same

>excitotoxic

>effect as the others.

>

>Yes, I see Lieberman the 28th of this month. Just been dx with mycoplasma

>fermentans, so will be interesting to hear his comments, then compare them

>to Cheney's, then decide what to do for Rx. Still stuck here - DH is having

>to fly up this weekend to drive me back because they can't cure my car's

>smell, but my reactions to it are getting stronger and it's no longer even

>remotely safe for me to drive it that distance. Coming down with a sinus

>infection, I believe. I hate this weather!!!! I've been here so long it's

>time for another NEEDS run!

>

>I think Charlie Green is in California or Washington State, but his address

>is back home. I think it may be in the archives, though.

>

>Donna in NC

>

>

> Re: Re: Immunocal questions

>

>

> > Hey Donna-

> >

> > What happens to you when you take Immunocal? By the way, where is this

>Charlie Green located?

> >

> > Kathy

> >

> > PS: You are seeing Leiberman at the end of this month?

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I don't recall saying that the excitotoxins are caused by malabsorption. If

there is a connection of which I am unaware, I'd love to know. What I was

trying to saying, though perhaps not clearly enough, was that the regular

processes by which these substances are converted to useful material by the

body are not working properly, most likely due to several enzyme

deficiencies, one of which is a sulfite oxidase deficiency, so that the

substance does not undergo a normal metabolic conversion process in the

body. Though I am considered malnourished, I was significantly more so at

the point in time when I was able to take these substances. We believe that

the use of mercury chelating agents (DMPS and DMSA) released large amounts

of mercury into my body which it was not able to effectively eliminate due

to a bad gut. The redistribution of mercury to various organs/organ systems

in all likelihood caused the SOD to develop, or greatly increased its

actions in my body, and very likely messed up other enzymes. That is one of

the modes of action that mercury has in the body - messing up enzymes, so

that they do not work properly, such as messing up thyroid hormone levels

because it has a high affinity for the thyroid. My malabsorption problems

were probably caused by several things - l/t abx for roseacea, l/t mold and

organophosphate pesticide exposure, and of course, mercury. Probably lots of

other things jumped into the mix, but those are the primary culprits.

You are correct in that I take a broad spectrum enzyme product that contains

protease and a mall amount of Betaine HCL. But I also supplement Betaine HCL

separately from my enzymes, which I also take a couple of times a day on an

empty stomach.

There is nothing else at the moment except avoidance of foods I know bother

me (which is nearly everything), exogenous thyroid meds, and other organ

support as needed.

Donna in NC

Re: Re: Immunocal questions

> >

> >

> > > Hey Donna-

> > >

> > > What happens to you when you take Immunocal? By the way, where is

this

> >Charlie Green located?

> > >

> > > Kathy

> > >

> > > PS: You are seeing Leiberman at the end of this month?

> >

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.

> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

So, if you're still getting tremors and other associated symptoms and the

enzymes you're taking aren't helping, what can you do to bolster these other

enzyme deficiencies, as it's impossible to avoid proteins? Glutamine & whey

are so crucial to getting well!

>From: " Donna Pruitt " <donnap@...>

>Reply-

>< >

>Subject: Re: Re: Immunocal questions

>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:11:26 -0400

>

>I don't recall saying that the excitotoxins are caused by malabsorption. If

>there is a connection of which I am unaware, I'd love to know. What I was

>trying to saying, though perhaps not clearly enough, was that the regular

>processes by which these substances are converted to useful material by the

>body are not working properly, most likely due to several enzyme

>deficiencies, one of which is a sulfite oxidase deficiency, so that the

>substance does not undergo a normal metabolic conversion process in the

>body. Though I am considered malnourished, I was significantly more so at

>the point in time when I was able to take these substances. We believe that

>the use of mercury chelating agents (DMPS and DMSA) released large amounts

>of mercury into my body which it was not able to effectively eliminate due

>to a bad gut. The redistribution of mercury to various organs/organ systems

>in all likelihood caused the SOD to develop, or greatly increased its

>actions in my body, and very likely messed up other enzymes. That is one of

>the modes of action that mercury has in the body - messing up enzymes, so

>that they do not work properly, such as messing up thyroid hormone levels

>because it has a high affinity for the thyroid. My malabsorption problems

>were probably caused by several things - l/t abx for roseacea, l/t mold and

>organophosphate pesticide exposure, and of course, mercury. Probably lots

>of

>other things jumped into the mix, but those are the primary culprits.

>

>You are correct in that I take a broad spectrum enzyme product that

>contains

>protease and a mall amount of Betaine HCL. But I also supplement Betaine

>HCL

>separately from my enzymes, which I also take a couple of times a day on an

>empty stomach.

>

>There is nothing else at the moment except avoidance of foods I know bother

>me (which is nearly everything), exogenous thyroid meds, and other organ

>support as needed.

>

>Donna in NC

>

> Re: Re: Immunocal questions

> > >

> > >

> > > > Hey Donna-

> > > >

> > > > What happens to you when you take Immunocal? By the way, where is

>this

> > >Charlie Green located?

> > > >

> > > > Kathy

> > > >

> > > > PS: You are seeing Leiberman at the end of this month?

> > >

> >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.

> > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

> >

> >

> >

> > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

>each

>other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

>discussed here, please consult your doctor.

> >

> >