Curcumin--A Second Look/Feedback Wanted

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/10/02 4:07:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,

robnapier@... writes:

> Clearance pains do not occur until I take the next hot

> bath, so it is hard to say to what extent curcumin was responsible. I need

> to favour those

What are clearance pains? I have been having a sharp stinging pain in my

left lower arm after taking Heparin, is this what you mean? I can't figure

out what the heck these pains are. k

[Guest guest]

Hope, this has come up a few times, included by me. I think Ken listed it in

a number of things he attributed to his remission. In fact, I was just

reading the latest issue of HealthWatch and it talks about it in there.

[Guest guest]

Doris,

Most people who recommend natural fibrinolytics put bromelain and curcumin

at or near the top of the list. I think that has included Ken in the past

and I'd be interested if he could tell us what are his latest views.

My experience, however, is that these are not very effective and that they

have many other effects apart from fibrinolysis, some of which are not or

might not be welcome.

The herbal extract fibrinolytics and/or platelet aggregation inhibitors

that I have found to be very effective are: bilberry, cats claw, garlic,

grapeseed, hawthorne, horse chestnut and rutin. These I take every three

days in rotation and I take feverfew every week.

These extracts also have many additional cardiovascular and immune

benefits.

Do members of the group have personal experience of taking any of these 10

agents?

Rob

Re: Curcumin--A Second Look/Feedback Wanted

I don't understand. Are you saying he people like Ken do recommend these,

or don't? I certainly learned about them from Ken, so maybe they are not

the most effective but they are certainly thought of.

Thanks,

Doris

----- Original Message ----- > I have a problem that I've been meaning to

raise for some time, and that

> is that the fibrinolytics and anti-platelet aggregators that I use are

not

> the same as those recommended by others like Ken. No-one has subjected

> them to closer scrutiny than I have, so why are we so far apart?

>

> One possibility is that my kind of hypercoag is not typical, but I have

> no reason to suppose that that is the case. Here are my notes on the two

> most widely recommended natural fibrinolytics.

>

> " The two extracts most widely recommended as fibrinolytics are curcumin,

> from turmeric, and bromelain, from pineapple.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi Judith,

I've tested these agents individually many times and as you'll know if you

read my essay Hypofibrinolysis and Toxification posted a few months ago,

I've become adept at recognising the signs that fibrinolytics are working

without having to wait to see whether I improve. Being a quite severe

case actually makes this a lot easier -- I think I would have lost my legs

by now if I hadn't worked on this one.

However, it's other people's opinions I'd like to hear and thanks for

letting us have yours. I think you may be right in saying that some will

appreciate its anti-inflammatory effect but I don't look for that if only

cos it's usually achieved by suppressing prostaglandin pathways and hence

repair metabolism. I'll check out the Serraflazyme.

Rob

Re: Curcumin--A Second Look/Feedback Wanted

hi Rob and all -

> Most people who recommend natural fibrinolytics put bromelain and

curcumin

> at or near the top of the list. I think that has included Ken in the

past

> and I'd be interested if he could tell us what are his latest views.

>

> My experience, however, is that these are not very effective and that

they

> have many other effects apart from fibrinolysis, some of which are not

or

> might not be welcome.

> Do members of the group have personal experience of taking any of

these 10

> agents?

curcumin was OK'd by my doc up to 1800 mg/day as a fibrinolytic, but he

prefers Serraflazyme (from NEEDS, a naturally occurring enzyme). While

I have no idea how curcumin worked as a fibrinolytic since I didn't have

before and after tests, it clearly diminished the FM-ish aches &

pains, perhaps cause it works as an anti-inflammatory. I had no side

effects.

How did you determine that bromelain and curcumin weren't effective for

you if you were taking 10 things in rotation??

Judith G

Judith G.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

k,

It's a complex situation and no-one is sure what these pains mean. They

could be:

Removal of plaque from blood vessel walls BUT do they have nerves?

Ingress of water to surrounding tissues to dilute liberated toxins

Calcium phosphate crystals being loosened within their tissue matrix

A local effect from heparin or a shot

Any more anyone?

Rob

Re: Curcumin--A Second Look/Feedback Wanted

In a message dated 12/10/02 4:07:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,

robnapier@... writes:

> Clearance pains do not occur until I take the next hot

> bath, so it is hard to say to what extent curcumin was responsible. I

need

> to favour those

What are clearance pains? I have been having a sharp stinging pain in my

left lower arm after taking Heparin, is this what you mean? I can't

figure

out what the heck these pains are. k

[Guest guest]

This is an interesting thread, and I just read Hypofibrinolysis &

Toxificationfor the first time - real neat!

This could be more weird science, and I am not as fluent in all the

chemistry as some on this board. I will put in my 2 cents anyway, if

I am way off base just tell me to go away!

My prior internet research links F- poisoning, calcification of a

vast array of body parts, and nanobacteria.

Can EDTA , IV or supositories (sp?), be used in conjunction with

other tests to diagnose fluoride poisoning?

Could Nanobacteria incorporate the fluoride as fluoroapitate and not

exclusively calcium phosphate? I can find no research on this but it

is extremely probable.

As nanobacteria are unroofed the bacteria produce lipopolysaccharide

endotoxin lps causing symptoms or Causing F- poisoning symptoms?

If nanobacteria are not even involved, resesrch shows that F- is

incorporated into nearly all body tissues.

------------------------------

Hypothesis:

A challenge test using EDTA (HCL also unroofs NB in test tubes)

followed by blood and urine fluoride tests will show elevated F-

levels, elevated nanobacteria levels and lipopolysaccharide

endotoxin .

Methods:

Test blood and urine for F-, lipopolysaccharide endotoxin , and

nanobacteria before the challenge and after challenge with EDTA

=============================

Rob Napier has a paper

Hypofibrinolysis & Toxification

Fibrinogen is a plasma protein, ie it is dissolved in it.

Hypofibrinolysis is

an underactive breakdown of fibrin, a sticky substance formed by

thrombin from fibrinogen. ......

What else breaks down fibrin -Potassium chloride ,Plasmin, heprin and

the 10 suppliments Rob mentions. ( If I am wrong correct me)

Could some of the sticky slime of fibrin be the same slime produced

by NanoBacteria that also give off the endotoxin LPS

Ron

=====================================

Lets look at:

http://www.uncleharrys.com/infobase/product/seaweed.htm

Potassium chloride present in Irish moss acts on collagen to form

fibrin. Fibrin builds muscles and ligaments, but unless there is

sufficient potassium chloride in the blood to keep it in solution,

the fibrin precipitates as a stringy, insoluble mass that forms an

excess of thick mucous as well as fibroid tumors. Fibrin also serves

to coagulate blood when it is exposed to air because it is a very

sticky substance.

potassium chloride (fibrin solvent),

------------

http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/labmed/lab/coag/handbook/CO002700.htm

Synonyms D-Dimers; FBP; FDP; Fibrin Breakdown Products; Fibrin Split

Products; FSP

Applies to Fibrinolysis; Plasmin; Thrombin; Thrombolysis

Abstract Fibrinolysis is mediated by plasmin, which degrades fibrin

clots into D-dimers and fibrin degradation products (FDP). Plasmin

can also degrade intact fibrinogen, generating fibrinogen degradation

products (FDP) that are detected in FDP assays.

-----------------

I then did a GS= fibrin fluoride poisoning

and found that some substances in teas (catechin ,tea pigment (TP) )

can dissolve fibrin.

Some studies say tea helps lots ailments. also high F- is bad in

tea. A dicotomy.

Could some of the sticky slime of fibrin be the same slime produced

by NanoBacteria that also give off the endotoxin LPS

The tea breaks down the fibrin , which is part natural body stuff

and /or NanoBacteria biofilm, the NB slime is exposed , LPS is

released and symptoms of toxicity prevail! It all depends on how

much NB are present in the host!

I have all the references for this if you want them. This just

keeps it a lot simpler.